My take on Joe Douglas, and his future with the Jets.

[jamesr]

18 minutes ago, slats said:

I don’t think it matters. I think regardless of Saleh’s contractual status, he’s on much thinner ice than JD. 

Agreed - to paraphrase an older analogy, the best ingredients have been provided, now it's up to the chef to produce. 

[JKlecko]

4 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I've seen that "you can't screw up when you have two top-10 picks" argument a few times.

So let's debunk that.

1) IND had the 1-2 picks in the draft in 1992.  They took two absolute busts.  

2) NYG had two top-10 picks in the same draft in 2022 as us.  They took Thibs and Neal.  Neal is looking bad.  Thibs is not as good as the guy we took at 26. 

It's actually happened more than a few times in draft history, and more often than not, at least one of the two picks was not great.  

So look at this specific draft.  Six players total made a pro bowl so far.  Two were ours and Garrett Wilson clearly deserves to be a third.  Look at how many picks did not pan out as well as guys taken later at their positions.  Travon Walker at 1.  Stingley at 3.  Thibs at 5.  Ekwonu at 6.  Neal at 7.  London at 8.  Cross at 9.  And the list keeps going.

Meanwhile, JD took the best CB, the best WR, and moved up to 26 for probably the 2nd best DL (I'll give Hutchinson props at 2).  Moving up for Breece was the cherry on top.

Finally, I will add that JD HAD those picks because he worked trades to get there.  Jamal and Darnold being the big moves.  JD didn't just "not f*** up this draft.  He crushed it.

Whatever you think of JD overall, the 2022 draft, including all of the actions leading up to it, were a masterpiece.  Probably not hyperbole to say one of the 10 best draft classes in NFL history with potential to move up in that list.

 

 

Excellent points and post.  In spite of that, JD was willing to go into this season without a capable backup for T. Smith and into the future with no young OL capable of being a quality starter.  That's malfeasance at its worst.  After all the OL troubles the Jets have had over the last 3-5 years, and after JD claiming when he was hired that he was going to fix the OL, wanting to trade up for a 2nd #1 WR when they already didn't have a 2nd round pick, and desperately needed to draft their future LT is a fireable offense imo.  It's just mind-numbingly stupid.  They never would have been able to pay both Wilson and Nabers/Odunze or keep them happy, and when Smith went down with injury, more than likely Rodgers would have.  IMO that kind of thinking, decision making completely undoes killing a draft, it undermines his own work.  It's like he's schizophrenic.  Then to top it off in an all-in year, he decides to let his best pass rusher walk in FA, trades a starting Edge, and trades for a disgruntled Edge who is known as a mercenary, and i looking for a big extension and guaranteed money without signing him to a new deal, and knowing that he has 30 FAs next offseason, is going to have cap issues, and needs to extend Wilson, JJ, Sauce, Breece and MC II.  That's gross incompetence.  Someone with his background should know better.

[bicketybam]

1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Only if I have your permission.

You do. Try to go with a new one though.

[Alka]

47 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Because he didn’t **** up a draft where he had two top ten picks?

First of all, he did not have his choice of cornerbacks when he picked.  One was already gone.  Second, he did not have his choice of wide receivers when he picked.  One was already gone.  But he picked the best cornerback in the draft, and the best wide receiver in the draft anyway.  Third, he moved up to #26 to pick up a edge rusher who made the probowl last season, and moved up in the second round to pick the absolute best running back in the draft, and now seems to be perhaps one of the best 2 running backs in the entire league.  

So, I must push back on your characterization of not screwing up on two of the top 10 picks in that draft.

[nycdan]

3 minutes ago, JKlecko said:

Excellent points and post.  In spite of that, JD was willing to go into this season without a capable backup for T. Smith and into the future with no young OL capable of being a quality starter.  That's malfeasance at its worst.  After all the OL troubles the Jets have had over the last 3-5 years, and after JD claiming when he was hired that he was going to fix the OL, wanting to trade up for a 2nd #1 WR when they already didn't have a 2nd round pick, and desperately needed to draft their future LT is a fireable offense imo.  It's just mind-numbingly stupid.  They never would have been able to pay both Wilson and Nabers/Odunze or keep them happy, and when Smith went down with injury, more than likely Rodgers would have.  IMO that kind of thinking, decision making completely undoes killing a draft, it undermines his own work.  It's like he's schizophrenic.  Then to top it off in an all-in year, he decides to let his best pass rusher walk in FA, trades a starting Edge, and trades for a disgruntled Edge who is known as a mercenary, and i looking for a big extension and guaranteed money without signing him to a new deal, and knowing that he has 30 FAs next offseason, is going to have cap issues, and needs to extend Wilson, JJ, Sauce, Breece and MC II.  That's gross incompetence.  Someone with his background should know better.

Fair.  The overall handling of QB and OL have been lacking.  Granted, injuries way over normal have compounded things, but lack of depth there (as compared to DL) have really held this team back. For example, I feel like if we had Tyrod Taylor on the roster last season, we would have made the playoffs.  

[Claymation]

1 minute ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Lol. So because past GMs, and JD for 5 years, have been so bad we should reward him because he isn’t the worst anymore? lol. Time to set the bar higher and stop with the loser mentality. No participation trophies , 14th place ribbon attitude. 

Huh, you stated that making the playoffs he should only earn a 1 year extension. I stated if a person did something that hasn't been done in the past 10 years for their company, that any normal person would expect a contract more than 1 year. Obviously you are ok with only receiving a 1 year contract for all your hard work. Good for you. 

[Biggs]

1 hour ago, Claymation said:

But Saleh stays because...slogans?

WooHoo!

Madison Avenue was built on slogans.  Didn't you watch Mad Men?

[Claymation]

8 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Agreed - to paraphrase an older analogy, the best ingredients have been provided, now it's up to the chef to produce. 

Twisting the Bill Parcells' quote, I like that.

The apprentice is now the master.

[Claymation]

3 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Madison Avenue was built on slogans.  Didn't you watch Mad Men?

I did, but my father was of the belief to have a spoken person to sell his products. It's how I met Annette Funicello and Joe Namath when I was just a kid.

[JKlecko]

2 hours ago, kmnj said:

this is a results business-Joe has had terrible results-he picked the players and he picked the coach-to me it is very simple-make the playoffs and extend him-if they team busts for ANY REASON you fire him-at some point you have to freaking win games. Enough with the excuses as most of the excuses are a result of what Joe did.   

Joes incompetence early on set this team back 3 years with his picks for Wilson, Becton and Mims

Joe has some nice pieces now-he should when are at the top of the draft ever year you should hit on players.

I think the Arod move was a mistake and Joe once again tied his future  to a bad option at QB-Arod is old, coming off a major injury, plays  on terrible turf and has 3 game run in 10 days-If I was Joe I would have kept Sam and traded for a draft haul or if he was convinced Sam sucked go hard after Lamar when he was out there...

when Joe walked in the door-he had sam bell robby crowder DT and Griffin and a bad line-to date he has not had an offense out produce what he was handed years later-  his oline has been terrible every year, his wr room has been terrible every single year outside of WR1 with Wilson.

I will give Joe credit on defense-the unit has some talent but I also know he had some talent when he took over -folks forget he had mutliple first round picks on that defense

 

 

 

 

 

 

The only thing I disagree with here is the idea of keeping Sam Darnold.  He was awful and showing no signs of improving.  The Jets had no one on the CS that could develop a young QB. 

Joe set the stage by hiring a defensive coordinator to be a rookie HC, and allowing him to hire a rookie OC and a rookie QB Coach.  That's sheer stupidity when you have a young QB that has been struggling to develop, or you plan to draft another young QB high in the draft.  QBs just don't magically develop, and I'm sorry, but Greg Knapp alone was not going to be nearly enough to help a young QB develop even if he had lived.

JD set himself and the team up for failure.  It doesn't matter that RS was the consensus best HC prospect.  Brian Daboll was the only candidate that really made sense from the perspective of helping a young QB develop.  But in JD's defense, perhaps Daboll and JD didn't see eye-to-eye on their vision for the team or how they'd do things.  I think Arthur Smith was a candidate, and he at least was an offensive coordinator, but he was run first and second, and I didn't think he was a good candidate. I don't remember if there were any other experienced OCs who were candidates, so perhaps JD did the best he could in who he hired as HC considering whom was available, but he should have insisted that Saleh hire an experienced OC or at least an experienced QB Coach and then Knapp as well.

[usapaw]

19 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Sauce and Garrett Wilson were obviously picks. For positions of need, and every expert mock draft had them going where they were picked, or even before. The Will McDonald pick had Saleh written all over it. It was a major reach by all accounts, and low down on the list of immediate needs. It’s obvious JD’s board fell apart, and he didn’t know what to do. He tried to trade down, when nobody bit he gave that pick to Saleh. We all know Saleh loves a deep DL rotation. Nice luxury, but when your offense was last in the league, your top pick has to be O there.
     We saw the same with MT with Rex. Coples, ect. Every top pick other than Sanchez was D. Rex did well coaching the team MT/mangini built, but when he got his paws on the picks and moves, team went downhill each yr. Mangini was a better gm than coach. I don’t think Rex would have signed off on top picks dbrick and mangold. He would have pushed for 1 ( or 2) of those picks to be D. But rex did take almost exact same 20 something ranked D in 08, to number 1 overall. That’s pretty impressive. Maybe jets should have fired MT and made mangini gm ha. 

So the good picks were JD's and the questionable one's are RS? Got it. Becton and ZW? Oh, that's right, it is because of mishandling these two by the coaching staff. Giving up the house for a Guard? Was JJ RS's pick or JD's? 

I don't dislike either the GM or the HC but sooner or later they have to have some success via winning. Let's hope they win a lot of games and keep their jobs.  

[dbatesman]

52 minutes ago, slats said:

a playoff caliber roster 

lol

[kmnj]

7 minutes ago, slats said:

Because he took over a team that was complete garbage, despite being overpaid, tore it down, absorbed a lot of cap pain, and was fielding a playoff caliber roster in just a couple years. This years roster at its core is drafted players on rookie deals. It’s neither short-term nor very expensive. Tyron Smith counts as $2.9M against the cap. The man is good at his job. This is a better roster than the Tanny-Rex teams that were strong in their starting lineups but had no depth at all. This team is deep. 

this is simply not true-it may not have been a championship caliber team with their trash coach  but it was not "complete garbage" 

the 2019 team won 7 games with a trash coach -Joe has not exceeded that win total yet- 

Joe has not fielded a playoff roster yet or exceeded 7 wins and it has been more than a couple of years

the core of Sam Bell Powell Robby Crowder DT Griffin was a better core than anything Joe has put on the field to date (not including this year) This year Joe may finally exceed the results of the team he was handed but it is dependent on a 40 year old QB coming off a major injury and a WR coming off a major injury 

2019 defense had  4 first round draft picks on the team and all young -  Adams(who at that moment was best in football)  Maye , Quinnen Williams, Jenkins(8 sacks) Leonard Williams- was 5 guys with talent -Joe decided to blow it up but to say there was no talent there is a lie 

 

[Alka]

20 minutes ago, JKlecko said:

JD was willing to go into this season without a capable backup for T. Smith and into the future with no young OL capable of being a quality starter.

I agree with you 100%.  In fact, I was on record stating that the Jets must draft a left tackle with the #10 pick this past year.  And although I agree with you, and JD wanted to move up to get a wide receiver, he was not able to do that.  When the #10 pick was staring him in the face, he ended up with the correct pick anyway.  

I do not give JD a pass on this, but when I sum up his most recent history, in drafting, in trading, and in acquiring undrafted talent, I am very happy that JD is our GM, and not someone elses.

[Jetsplayer21]

10 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Huh, you stated that making the playoffs he should only earn a 1 year extension. I stated if a person did something that hasn't been done in the past 10 years for their company, that any normal person would expect a contract more than 1 year. Obviously you are ok with only receiving a 1 year contract for all your hard work. Good for you. 

I don’t agree with that. That is the weak participation trophy analogy I was referring to. You are wrongly implying JD walked in the door and immediately turned the losing around. He has been here since 2019. For the past 5 years, it’s been on his watch how bad the roster and lack of winning has been. Saleh was a big part in helping transform the D, but the offense has been 1 of worst in NFL thanks to him. The future has been mortgaging, and team is built for big expectations now, before Rodgers retires, the patch work vet OLs retire, and the many pieces will be needing big contracts when rookie deals end. Woody fired mangini after 9-7. He could have easily said then “ well this is 1 of our best seasons in 20 + years so let’s give the guy a big extension for that.” Teams will not be lining up for Saleh and JD , especially if they do not make a run with this win now team. They both would be stupid not to accept any extension that they are offered.

[Alka]

37 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Sauce and Garrett Wilson were obviously picks.

They were so obvious, that the first cornerback taken in the draft was not Sauce, and the first wide receiver taken in the draft was not Wilson.

But as you said, it was "obvious".

[Jetsplayer21]

13 minutes ago, usapaw said:

So the good picks were JD's and the questionable one's are RS? Got it. Becton and ZW? Oh, that's right, it is because of mishandling these two by the coaching staff. Giving up the house for a Guard? Was JJ RS's pick or JD's? 

I don't dislike either the GM or the HC but sooner or later they have to have some success via winning. Let's hope they win a lot of games and keep their jobs.  

My point is, my 8 year old nephew would have picked both sauce and Garrett just by using the cheat sheet mock draft charts. Easy to make top 10 picks because your so bad every yr you get could draft positions. There were a lot of red flags for becton that JD ignored. That all seem to come true.. JD loved Zach, and rumors have been Saleh wanted to keep darnold and trade the 2 overall for picks. 
 

   I agree , they have to be held accountable now. No more excuses. 

[bicketybam]

10 minutes ago, kmnj said:

this is simply not true-it may not have been a championship caliber team with their trash coach  but it was not "complete garbage" 

the 2019 team won 7 games with a trash coach -Joe has not exceeded that win total yet- 

Joe has not fielded a playoff roster yet or exceeded 7 wins and it has been more than a couple of years

the core of Sam Bell Powell Robby Crowder DT Griffin was a better core than anything Joe has put on the field to date (not including this year) This year Joe may finally exceed the results of the team he was handed but it is dependent on a 40 year old QB coming off a major injury and a WR coming off a major injury 

2019 defense had  4 first round draft picks on the team and all young -  Adams(who at that moment was best in football)  Maye , Quinnen Williams, Jenkins(8 sacks) Leonard Williams- was 5 guys with talent -Joe decided to blow it up but to say there was no talent there is a lie 

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2019_roster.htm

I disagree. 

[TuscanyTile2]

32 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

You do. Try to go with a new one though.

I emailed Saleh's office to request his permission, but was told he'll email back when when he's done golfing.

[bicketybam]

3 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

My point is, my 8 year old nephew would have picked both sauce and Garrett just by using the cheat sheet mock draft charts. Easy to make top 10 picks because your so bad every yr you get could draft positions. There were a lot of red flags for becton that JD ignored. That all seem to come true.. JD loved Zach, and rumors have been Saleh wanted to keep darnold and trade the 2 overall for picks. 
 

   I agree , they have to be held accountable now. No more excuses. 

How bad the Jets were had nothing to do with G. Wilson pick. That was the pick JD fleeced from Seattle.

[Alka]

1 minute ago, bicketybam said:

How bad the Jets were had nothing to do with G. Wilson pick. That was the pick JD fleeced from Seattle.

OOOH!!!  That was a good comeback!!!

[JKlecko]

23 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Sauce and Garrett Wilson were obviously picks. For positions of need, and every expert mock draft had them going where they were picked, or even before. The Will McDonald pick had Saleh written all over it. It was a major reach by all accounts, and low down on the list of immediate needs. It’s obvious JD’s board fell apart, and he didn’t know what to do. He tried to trade down, when nobody bit he gave that pick to Saleh. We all know Saleh loves a deep DL rotation. Nice luxury, but when your offense was last in the league, your top pick has to be O there.
     We saw the same with MT with Rex. Coples, ect. Every top pick other than Sanchez was D. Rex did well coaching the team MT/mangini built, but when he got his paws on the picks and moves, team went downhill each yr. Mangini was a better gm than coach. I don’t think Rex would have signed off on top picks dbrick and mangold. He would have pushed for 1 ( or 2) of those picks to be D. But rex did take almost exact same 20 something ranked D in 08, to number 1 overall. That’s pretty impressive. Maybe jets should have fired MT and made mangini gm ha. 

I agree that JD's draft board fell apart, and that perhaps McDonald was Saleh's idea.  

The thing is that JD DID draft offense.  His first 1st- round pick was Becton, and his first 2nd round pick was Mims.  With his second 1st-round pick, he took Wilson.  So, it's not like he drafted D instead of offense.  In the 2020 draft, he took 5 offensive players, 3 defensive players, and 1 ST.  In 2021 that flipped as he took 4 offensive players and 6 defensive players, but the offensive players were with his first 4 picks, the defensive players were all in the 5th-7th rounds.  In 2022 he took 4 offensive players and 3 defensive players, and it was more balanced. He used one 1st round pick on D and another on O.  In 2023 he again took 4 offensive players to 3 defensive players.  This year he took 5 offensive players to only two defensive players, and they were taken in the 5th and 7th rounds.  His drafts have definitely been much better since 2022.  So one cannot say that he ignored offense in the draft.  I don't know what the balance was in FA, but I know that a GM can't ignore D especially when his HC is a former DC.  I actually think this is an area where JD has done a really good job striking a balance.  He also was handicapped because he tried to sign a couple of top OL FAs, but they didn't want to sign with the Jets because of the Jets' sorry history.  JD actually offered them more money than they took to sign elsewhere.  Because of that, he had to settle for whateve was left in FA for the OL for the most part.  Tomlinson was an exception.  There was a player who had been getting better and better, who had just made his first All Pro (or was it Pro Bowl), so JD had every reason to expect that Tomlinson would be solid at LG.  There's no way that he could have known that Tomlinson's play would deteriorate so badly.  He even brought back the OL Coach under whom Tomlinson had his best years in SF, and Tomlinson got even worse.  So not everything can be blamed on the GM.  

JD has also had a ton of injuries to OL that he couldn't have predicted.  Even last season, I'm sure he thought that both his and the Jets' luck would change and that one or both of Becton and Duane Brown would be healthy, and that Mitchell would be better than his rookie season.  Of course, we know that backfired badly and didn't work out.  Even though I think it was a bad decision to trust that one of Becton and Brown would get and remain healthy and play well, I can't kill JD too badly for that because his options were limited.  After all, he had missed out on one of the top OL in that draft, and GMs can't or shouldn't trade up every year.  Now he could have possibly traded down and taken an OT (Anton Harrison), and it was rumored that he had offers to trade down, but didn't think the other teams were offering enough.  While a GM doesn't want to set a precedent of accepting less than value or being taken advantage of in trades, when there is a glaring need at OT, the situation was desperate, and sometimes, one just has to grit one's teeth, go ahead and make the trade, accept less and do what one needs to do for the team.  That's what I fault him for most with regards to the OL last year.

[Jetsplayer21]

6 minutes ago, Alka said:

They were so obvious, that the first cornerback taken in the draft was not Sauce, and the first wide receiver taken in the draft was not Wilson.

But as you said, it was "obvious".

Lol. I don’t have to look because I remember, but if you go back and look at top mock drafts, sauce is top 5, most have going 1st corner. Garrett Wilson 10 or sooner. There were a few good WRs top of draft that everyone knew would be picked early. Very good top WR draft. And jets desperately needed 1. Jets were rumored to prefer drake landon who was picked 8th. So even if Garrett Wilson wasn’t number 1 on JDs WR list, it was a no brainer then. So yes sauce and Garrett were obvious picks.

[bicketybam]

3 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Jets were rumored to prefer drake landon who was picked 8th. So even if Garrett Wilson wasn’t number 1 on JDs WR list, it was a no brainer then. So yes sauce and Garrett were obvious picks

The reason they were in a spot to draft Wilson was because JD was able to trade Jamal Adams for two #1 picks. He gets a huge amount of credit for that, whether you acknowledge it or not.

[BornJetsFan1983]

16 hours ago, Alka said:

Joe Douglas was a rookie General Manager when he came onto the Jets, and as a rookie, made many mistakes.  He learned on the job, and if you look at his overall record, you might say he is no better than average.  In fact, if you look at his overall record, you might even say he is a below average general manager.

I have a different take.  I believe that Joe Douglas has transformed himself into a very good General Manager, and I feel that the Jets should not wait too long to extend him well into the future.

I am not concerned about waiting to see what happens this year.  For me, if the Jets fail, then Robert Saleh should be on the hot seat, and be the one to take the fall.

I would hate to see Joe Douglas leave the Jets under any circumstances, and succeed somewhere else.  That would be the equivalent of taking a rookie player, training them, and then they go to another team to become an All-Pro player on another team.

I'm sure I will have many dissenters here.  For me, Joe Douglas has already succeeded in putting this team together.  I love what he has done.  If the Jets fail this year for whatever reason, I will not blame Joe Douglas.  He continues to ascend as a GM, and I believe he will only get better as time goes on.  With him, it is only time until the Jets go back to the Superbowl.

John Idzik was never going to be good enough.  Mike Maccagnan was never going to be good enough IMHO.  Joe Douglas has shown me that he is very good, and only getting better.

When Joe Douglas arrived, he had more than just the roster to fix. He had to overhaul the culture, staff, scouts, and even the power dynamics between the head coach and the owner. He had to change how the entire organization operated, and he had to do it with one arm tied behind his back because he wasn’t given full authority right away. But over time, he slowly gained control, piece by piece.

You can't achieve what needed to be done without a solid system and process in place, and even then, it's not a perfect science. But like the Ravens and Eagles before us, the Jets now have a culture and system that breeds talent. Our roster is full of players who want to play for the Jets brand, and we have legitimate stars. We're no longer the team of Gase or Bowles, with overpaid, underperforming talent, or starters who belong on the practice squad.

No matter how you look at it, Joe Douglas is awesome. You have to acknowledge his work, respect what he's done, and admit he's been a game-changer for the Jets.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, slats said:

Because he took over a team that was complete garbage, despite being overpaid, tore it down, absorbed a lot of cap pain, and was fielding a playoff caliber roster in just a couple years. This years roster at its core is drafted players on rookie deals. It’s neither short-term nor very expensive. Tyron Smith counts as $2.9M against the cap. The man is good at his job. This is a better roster than the Tanny-Rex teams that were strong in their starting lineups but had no depth at all. This team is deep. 

I’m glad to see that we’re now giving credit to GMs who had to clean up the sins of the previous GMs because I remember how sympathetic you were when Idzik took over from Tannenbaum and had to erase $80 mil in bad contracts. The worst contract Douglas took over was Mosley and he extended that one. My real question is, when did Douglas “field a playoff roster”? 

[peekskill68]

[JKlecko]

36 minutes ago, kmnj said:

this is simply not true-it may not have been a championship caliber team with their trash coach  but it was not "complete garbage" 

the 2019 team won 7 games with a trash coach -Joe has not exceeded that win total yet- 

Joe has not fielded a playoff roster yet or exceeded 7 wins and it has been more than a couple of years

the core of Sam Bell Powell Robby Crowder DT Griffin was a better core than anything Joe has put on the field to date (not including this year) This year Joe may finally exceed the results of the team he was handed but it is dependent on a 40 year old QB coming off a major injury and a WR coming off a major injury 

2019 defense had  4 first round draft picks on the team and all young -  Adams(who at that moment was best in football)  Maye , Quinnen Williams, Jenkins(8 sacks) Leonard Williams- was 5 guys with talent -Joe decided to blow it up but to say there was no talent there is a lie 

 

In your last paragraph, you speak as if Joe just arbitrarily on a whim decided to blow it up.  That's ridiculous!  Adams wanted out and was criticizing the team, CS, and FO publicly.  One cannot have that.  Besides, he was a one-dimensional player. He never should have been the Jets' 1st round pick in the year he was drafted.  Mahomes should have been the pick. 

ROFLMAO that you think that Maye, Q, Jenkins and Leonard Williams was a great core.  Maye was overrated, but was pretty good and remained with the team until 2022.  Williams was good until 2016, then his production tailed off and he didn't do much on the Jets.  He got better when he went to the Giants.  Jenkins had a career year in 2019,  The next 2 seasons he had 2 and 2.5 sacks respectively, then he was out of the NFL.  Q is the only player in that group that was worthy of keeping, and that was his rookie season, and even he didn't look that good in 2019.  So JD got rid of two players whose play tailed off after they left the Jets.  That sounds pretty smart imo, especially getting rid of a headach/unhappy player and what he got in exchange for Adams.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, nycdan said:

I've seen that "you can't screw up when you have two top-10 picks" argument a few times.

So let's debunk that.

1) IND had the 1-2 picks in the draft in 1992.  They took two absolute busts.  

2) NYG had two top-10 picks in the same draft in 2022 as us.  They took Thibs and Neal.  Neal is looking bad.  Thibs is not as good as the guy we took at 26. 

It's actually happened more than a few times in draft history, and more often than not, at least one of the two picks was not great.  

So look at this specific draft.  Six players total made a pro bowl so far.  Two were ours and Garrett Wilson clearly deserves to be a third.  Look at how many picks did not pan out as well as guys taken later at their positions.  Travon Walker at 1.  Stingley at 3.  Thibs at 5.  Ekwonu at 6.  Neal at 7.  London at 8.  Cross at 9.  And the list keeps going.

Meanwhile, JD took the best CB, the best WR, and moved up to 26 for probably the 2nd best DL (I'll give Hutchinson props at 2).  Moving up for Breece was the cherry on top.

Finally, I will add that JD HAD those picks because he worked trades to get there.  Jamal and Darnold being the big moves.  JD didn't just "not f*** up this draft.  He crushed it.

Whatever you think of JD overall, the 2022 draft, including all of the actions leading up to it, were a masterpiece.  Probably not hyperbole to say one of the 10 best draft classes in NFL history with potential to move up in that list.

Yes, it averages down with some of his other drafts that were far less productive.  But many GMs never have a 'good' draft.  We have been witness to two of them just before JD arrived.  I'll take the guy who at least has good and bad over the guys that are just awful all the time.  Plenty of active NFL GMs are far worse at team building than JD.

 

 

I didn’t say that you “can’t” screw up two top ten picks, but the pro-Douglas case currently rests on having drafted Sauce and Garrett and trading for Aaron Rodgers which, ya know, not exactly Bill Walsh level stuff there

[nycdan]

Just now, T0mShane said:

I didn’t say that you “can’t” screw up two top ten picks, but the pro-Douglas case currently rests on having drafted Sauce and Garrett and trading for Aaron Rodgers which, ya know, not exactly Bill Walsh level stuff there

And yet about 5 other GMs managed to screw up their top-10 picks that year.  Just sayin'...

[bicketybam]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I’m glad to see that we’re now giving credit to GMs who had to clean up the sins of the previous GMs because I remember how sympathetic you were when Idzik took over from Tannenbaum and had to erase $80 mil in bad contracts. The worst contract Douglas took over was Mosley and he extended that one. My real question is, when did Douglas “field a playoff roster”? 

Talk about grasping at straws 😅 Idzik is now the guy you want to point to? Holy sh*t.

[Claymation]

48 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

I don’t agree with that. That is the weak participation trophy analogy I was referring to. You are wrongly implying JD walked in the door and immediately turned the losing around. He has been here since 2019. For the past 5 years, it’s been on his watch how bad the roster and lack of winning has been. Saleh was a big part in helping transform the D, but the offense has been 1 of worst in NFL thanks to him. The future has been mortgaging, and team is built for big expectations now, before Rodgers retires, the patch work vet OLs retire, and the many pieces will be needing big contracts when rookie deals end. Woody fired mangini after 9-7. He could have easily said then “ well this is 1 of our best seasons in 20 + years so let’s give the guy a big extension for that.” Teams will not be lining up for Saleh and JD , especially if they do not make a run with this win now team. They both would be stupid not to accept any extension that they are offered.

I'm not implying anything, I am saying that he has turned this franchise around as of today, you think otherwise. I'm saying they will compete for a Super Bowl this year. You think otherwise.

Rex is in, are you?

[Scott Dierking]

I believe Joe Douglas to be week to week until further notice. We will update his progress here.

[TuscanyTile2]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I didn’t say that you “can’t” screw up two top ten picks, but the pro-Douglas case currently rests on having drafted Sauce and Garrett and trading for Aaron Rodgers which, ya know, not exactly Bill Walsh level stuff there

I agree with you in theory.  But let's not discount luck as well.  The Ravens very likely weren't going to take Lamar had they picked higher (e.g. top 10-15) in the draft.  Josh Allen also kind of fell to the Bills (maybe they would've taken Darnold if they had the chance).  Plus there's the whole "being terrible in the right year" type of a thing (e.g. the Colts getting the #1 overall pick in the Peyton Manning year).  

But obviously it's not all just luck.  The Ravens always seem to be competitive, for example.

EDIT: I do think JD has finally gotten the franchise to turn the corner this year.  Though, tbf, it's a short-term solution at best because of AR8 being on the wrong side of 40 plus he's soon going to need to re-sign that great draft class from a couple of years ago.

[JKlecko]

51 minutes ago, Alka said:

I agree with you 100%.  In fact, I was on record stating that the Jets must draft a left tackle with the #10 pick this past year.  And although I agree with you, and JD wanted to move up to get a wide receiver, he was not able to do that.  When the #10 pick was staring him in the face, he ended up with the correct pick anyway.  

I do not give JD a pass on this, but when I sum up his most recent history, in drafting, in trading, and in acquiring undrafted talent, I am very happy that JD is our GM, and not someone elses.

I understand, and I'm happy that his drafting has improved markedly.  That's what makes him so frustrating.  I don't understand how someone could have the pedigree he had, make so many bad decisions earlier, seemingly learn, his drafts get markedly better, then he turns around and wants to make another really stupid decision.  Only luck saved him, the Jets and Jets fans.  Every GM need some luck.  None are perfect.  It's just that when JD makes a mistake it's colossal, and something that could be considered a fireable offense for just that one decision.  His record should be more balanced than that.

One of the first things he said when hired was that he was going to fix the OL.  Sadly, it's still not fixed after 5 offseasons.  It's certainly better than it was, but T. Smith and Moses are almost certainly one-year fixes.  If AVT can't stay healthy this season, he will need to be replaced. If Simpson doesn't work out, or even if he does, he will either need to be released or extended next year.  Tippman and Fashanu are two great pieces of an OL, but the Jets should have more than that after 5 offseasons.  Hopefully, AVT proves that he can stay healthy this seaosn, and the Jets won't have to worry about replacing him. 

Several posters have noted that JD's even year drafts are better than his odd year drafts.  Well, next year is an odd year.  Will he have another bad draft, or will he add another good draft?  We all know that MC II, JJ, Wilson, Sauce, and Breece need to be extended.  Will JD manage to do that or will one or more of them opt to leave in FA?  The Jets have around 30 FAs next year and most likely will lose some starters and top backups, how many of them will JD manage to keep.  Will he make another stupid decision or two that costs us those players, or will we get the good JD?

I can see both sides of the coin with him. Ideally, I'd like to see him stay and succeed, as I don't want Woody to have another opportunity to hire another Idzik or Mac or Gase, but at this point, I just don't trust him to make wise decisions. Since he makes a lot of decisions by building consensus, I don't know how much of the good is due to JD or how much of the bad is due to JD.  IMO since he is the boss, he should be the one making the decisions right or wrong.  At least that way, we'd know who was to blame and that person could be held accountable by Woody.  I like that he solicits input from the CS with regards to the draft and that he works to keep the CS happy and all on the same page, but I think he takes it too far.  Is it because he's too nice, needs help, or is because he knows what he doesn't know and seeks to defuse the blame?  Did Rex Hogan and the other FO assistant that JD brought with him leave because they were the ones behind some of the bad moves or because they tried to keep JD from making some dumb moves?  Did they leave willingly, or were they pushed out?