Anybody ever take a closer look at the contract the Giants signed Brian Burns to after they traded for him back in March?

[ARodJetsFan]

I guess I didn't pay much attention to it when it happened. He signed a monster contract with the Giants;

I understand that Brian Burns (picked 16th overall in the 2019 draft by Carolina) is a young ascending player, arguably entering his prime, having just turned 26 years old in April.

He's had 46 sacks & 8 FF's in 5 seasons, so basically averaging 9 sacks a year to this point. His worst season was 7.5 sacks (rookie season), his best season was 12.5 sacks (2022). He had 8 sacks last season.

Five years, $141M with $87.5M guaranteed, including a $25 million signing bonus that prorates to $5 million per year over the contract's life.

Other guarantees include his 2024 base salary ($18 million). In 2025, $11.5 million of his $22.5 million base is fully guaranteed. Starting in 2026, he gets up to $1 million per year in per-game roster bonuses and has a $2.5 million roster bonus in each of 2027 and 2028 if he is still on the roster by the fifth day of the league year.

Burns also gets a workout bonus of $500,000 each year of the contract.

The cap hits per year are as follows:

• 2024: $23.5 million
• 2025: $27.75 million
• 2026: $28.75 million
• 2027: $30.5 million
• 2028: $30.5 million

Giants Contract Details Revealed for Brian Burns and Jon Runyan - Sports Illustrated New York Giants News, Analysis and More

His contract has an annual average value of $28.2 million per year.

My point being if this is what Reddick & his agents are using, to try & gauge his value, he may never play football again.

Reddick will never sniff these kind of numbers - if he winds up with 21-23 million a year, on whatever future deal he signs with whatever team, that would be his highest, attainable watermark, IMHO.

 

[UntouchableCrew]

I mean he's an elite pass rusher in his prime. It's a big contract but doesn't feel like some insane overpay.

[ARodJetsFan]

8 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I mean he's an elite pass rusher in his prime. It's a big contract but doesn't feel like some insane overpay.

I wasn't trying to imply that at all - but that's a huge contract.

Just imagine if this is what Reddick has in his mind, as the contract benchmark that he's shooting for.

28.2 million per season - or somewhere in that neighborhood?

I couldn't imagine any NFL team ever paying Reddick that kind of money.

[Trotter]

5 minutes ago, ARodJetsFan said:

I guess I didn't pay much attention to it when it happened. He signed a monster contract with the Giants;

I understand that Brian Burns (picked 16th overall in the 2019 draft by Carolina) is a young ascending player, arguably just entering his prime, who just turns 26 years old in April.

He's had 46 sacks & 8 FF's in 5 seasons, so basically averaging 9 sacks a year to this point. His worst season was 7.5 sacks (rookie season), his best season was 12.5 sacks (2022). He had 8 sacks last season.

Five years, $141M with $87.5M guaranteed, including a $25 million signing bonus that prorates to $5 million per year over the contract's life.

Other guarantees include his 2024 base salary ($18 million). In 2025, $11.5 million of his $22.5 million base is fully guaranteed. Starting in 2026, he gets up to $1 million per year in per-game roster bonuses and has a $2.5 million roster bonus in each of 2027 and 2028 if he is still on the roster by the fifth day of the league year.

Burns also gets a workout bonus of $500,000 each year of the contract.

The cap hits per year are as follows:

• 2024: $23.5 million
• 2025: $27.75 million
• 2026: $28.75 million
• 2027: $30.5 million
• 2028: $30.5 million

Giants Contract Details Revealed for Brian Burns and Jon Runyan - Sports Illustrated New York Giants News, Analysis and More

His contract has an annual average value of $28.2 million per year.

My point being if this is what Reddick is using to try & gauge his own value he may never play football again.

Reddick will never sniff these kind of numbers - if he winds up with 22-23 million a year, on whatever future deal he signs with whatever team, that would be his highest watermark, IMHO.

 

Maybe someday the thinking of Reddick and his team will come to light. It is fascinating since most simply can't understand why he his handling in the way he is basically pissing away millions when he had other options to try and achieve what he is doing.

It gets to the point where I start to think there is a logical explanation to what he is doing simply because so many people see the errors in his way.

I know that is not the case but somehow I try and make some sense of his approach. I just can't get there

[ARodJetsFan]

34 minutes ago, Trotter said:

Maybe someday the thinking of Reddick and his team will come to light. It is fascinating since most simply can't understand why he his handling in the way he is basically pissing away millions when he had other options to try and achieve what he is doing.

It gets to the point where I start to think there is a logical explanation to what he is doing simply because so many people see the errors in his way.

I know that is not the case but somehow I try and make some sense of his approach. I just can't get there

I'm not really pointing to the error of Reddick's ways with this.

But rather what Reddick (and his agents) could actually be looking at - and thus what they actually believe, his real value should be.

I couldn't magine any team ever giving Reddick a deal with an AAV of 28 million per yr - even if it was just a 2 yr deal.

If this is truly what they're looking at (and obviously this is nothing but speculation & what ifs) they have grossly over-estimated his value IMHO.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

KOOL 

[Bobby816]

Burns is 4.5 years younger than Reddick. That answers the question.

[Trotter]

8 minutes ago, ARodJetsFan said:

I'm not really pointing to the error of Reddick's ways with this.

But rather what Reddick (and his agents) could actually be looking at - and thus what they actually believe, his real value should be.

I couldn't magine any team ever giving Reddick a deal with an AAV of 28 million per yr.

If this is truly what there looking at (and obviously this is nothing but speculation & what ifs) they have grossly over-estimated his value IMHO.

i understand and certainly was not suggesting you were.

i just took it as an opportunity to seize on your view of he is not getting that type of money and what the hell is he doing pissing money away.

[nycdan]

I think at this point he is wrapped up in a blanket of belief that he is right and everyone else is wrong and he is not budging from it.  Ultimately, could mean he never plays another snap again but he will have that blanket to keep him warm at night.   *Shrug* it's his life and money.  

[ARodJetsFan]

6 minutes ago, Trotter said:

i understand and certainly was not suggesting you were.

i just took it as an opportunity to seize on your view of he is not getting that type of money and what the hell is he doing pissing money away.

But if this is truly the type of money/deal Reddick & his agents are waiting on, I have absolutely no idea how this will end.

[Larz]

He can ask for whatever he wants. At some point you either accept the market or retire. 

[Trotter]

1 minute ago, ARodJetsFan said:

But if this is truly the type of money/deal Reddick & his agents are waiting on, I have absolutely no idea how this will end.

too bad Bill O'brien is still not coach/GM of the texans - Reddick would have his money😀

Bill got me good the other night though by humiliating FSU

[ARodJetsFan]

14 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Burns is 4.5 years younger than Reddick. That answers the question.

Burns turned 26 in April, Reddick turns 30 on Sept 22nd, so they're about 3 1/2 yrs apart in age.

 

[ARodJetsFan]

18 minutes ago, Larz said:

He can ask for whatever he wants. At some point you either accept the market or retire. 

Completely agree.

But, they have to come to grips with what Reddick's market value really is, before they can accept it.

Which I believe is the heart of the issue.

[Jetsplayer21]

7 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I think at this point he is wrapped up in a blanket of belief that he is right and everyone else is wrong and he is not budging from it.  Ultimately, could mean he never plays another snap again but he will have that blanket to keep him warm at night.   *Shrug* it's his life and money.  

Sometimes toddlers need to be left in timeout a little longer. I think they should send him a pacifier lol. 

[nycdan]

6 minutes ago, ARodJetsFan said:

But if this is truly the type of money/deal Reddick & his agents are waiting on, I have absolutely no idea how this will end.

Yes.  You absolutely do.  If any team was willing to fork over that kind of money for him, they would have outbid us for him this spring.  Instead the silence was deafening.  Surprised me because when we played the Eagles, it seemed like he was a real problem (just 2.5 sacks!).  So my view on him may have been a bit warped.  Still... the whole thing is just weird.

[Gaffneycatch81]

I have gone through the exercise of trying to make sense of his thinking, and the only thing I can come up with is Reddick and his agent think he can get 20-22M per year on a multi year (probably 2 or 3 years) deal whether he plays 17 games this regular season or 10. They probably know his body is unlikely to hold up to playing at a high level for a full season (he dropped off dramatically for the last 5-6 games last year, after all), and that would be used against him in negotiations. And they don’t think it’s worth the increased injury risk to put him out there longer given that a bad injury could totally tank his value, or be the end of his career. So, they figure they’ll try to get the Jets to cave on a long term deal, or they’ll show up for the second half of the season and get more or less the same contract they would have gotten if he played all year … with less risk.

 

 

[ARodJetsFan]

2 minutes ago, Gaffneycatch81 said:

I have gone through the exercise of trying to make sense of his thinking, and the only thing I can come up with is Reddick and his agent think he can get 20-22M per year on a multi year (probably 2 or 3 years) deal whether he plays 17 games this regular season or 10. They probably know his body is unlikely to hold up to playing at a high level for a full season (he dropped off dramatically for the last 5-6 games last year, after all), and that would be used against him in negotiations. And they don’t think it’s worth the increased injury risk to put him out there longer given that a bad injury could totally tank his value, or be the end of his career. So, they figure they’ll try to get the Jets to cave on a long term deal, or they’ll show up for the second half of the season and get more or less the same contract they would have gotten if he played all year … with less risk.

 

 

That sounds plausible.

[nycdan]

So here's an evil thought.

We play the Pats in Weeks 3 and 8 this season.  

Trade deadline is Week 9.

Pats play MIA 1x and BUF 2x after that.

You smell what I'm cooking?

[varjet]

• When Reddick signed this contract he was expected to perform for its term, and then he can get a new contract.   He obviously hoped to get a restructure before the end of the contract  if he performed well.  He was not entitled to one.  He signed a contract and his idiot agent did not get him an early “out”.
• Reddick told the Eagles he was not going to play 2024 for this contract salary.   So they traded him to the Jets.   Facts are still murky as to who said what.  Maybe Reddick said he would play 2024 at contract with the hope that he could do a restructure.  
• Reddick would not be unreasonable hoping for a guarantee of 2024 if he got hurt in camp or during the season.  That ship has sailed.  
• I do think that the Jets’/Woody’s inclination is to view players as “property” and play the contract game maybe too hard.   
• But now, if I had to guess, Reddick will play the minimum amount he is required to in 2024 to accrue the season.  He will poison the locker room.    He will save the tread on his tires for the team that pays him what he wants in 2025+.   The Jets will only lose a 3rd round pick and will likely get a 3/4 when he signs.
• But the best thing from my perspective to do would be to trade Reddick to a team that is willing to pay him.  Just move on from this loser.   My guess is that JD’s concern is that will end up costing the Jets a second round pick, and the team that trades for him will not want to mirror the Jets’/Eagles trade exactly.  

[ARodJetsFan]

12 minutes ago, nycdan said:

So here's an evil thought.

We play the Pats in Weeks 3 and 8 this season.  

Trade deadline is Week 9.

Pats play MIA 1x and BUF 2x after that.

You smell what I'm cooking?

I don't know if the Pats would touch Reddick the way he's acted with his last couple of teams.

Judon, who has been far more reasonable with his new team than Reddick has, still managed to wear out his welcome in New England.

I don't think the Pats would touch Reddick with a 100 ft pole.

[EM31]

Did the Jets let him try to find another team willing to pay him and pay us for him?  Nothing brings home the reality of a market better than dipping your toe into that market.

Maybe that is worth a try.  We can always say no to the offer and at least there will be some clarity about what his value really is. 

[Lith]

26 minutes ago, ARodJetsFan said:

But if this is truly the type of money/deal Reddick & his agents are waiting on, I have absolutely no idea how this will end.

I still think he will eventually report and worst case, play enough games to get to FA next season.  He wants free agency, he will do what he has to to get there.  Pretty sure he has to be on the active roster at least 6 games to accrue a season and make it to FA.  To me, that is the worst case we are looking at.  He accomplishes nothing by sitting out a full season and ends up with another season under the same contract he is looking to get out of.

Although there has not been much that appears to be rational in his approach to date.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

I would argue at age 30 Reddick is most likely already past his prime aka a descending player

I mean look at Mark Andrews last night looking completely washed at age 29

Kelce doing what he’s doing at 35 is just a rare rare feat

[ARodJetsFan]

8 minutes ago, varjet said:

• When Reddick signed this contract he was expected to perform for its term, and then he can get a new contract.   He obviously hoped to get a restructure before the end of the contract  if he performed well.  He was not entitled to one.  He signed a contract and his idiot agent did not get him an early “out”.
• Reddick told the Eagles he was not going to play 2024 for this contract salary.   So they traded him to the Jets.   Facts are still murky as to who said what.  Maybe Reddick said he would play 2024 at contract with the hope that he could do a restructure.  
• Reddick would not be unreasonable hoping for a guarantee of 2024 if he got hurt in camp or during the season.  That ship has sailed.  
• I do think that the Jets’/Woody’s inclination is to view players as “property” and play the contract game maybe too hard.   
• But now, if I had to guess, Reddick will play the minimum amount he is required to in 2024 to accrue the season.  He will poison the locker room.    He will save the tread on his tires for the team that pays him what he wants in 2025+.   The Jets will only lose a 3rd round pick and will likely get a 3/4 when he signs.
• But the best thing from my perspective to do would be to trade Reddick to a team that is willing to pay him.  Just move on from this loser.   My guess is that JD’s concern is that will end up costing the Jets a second round pick, and the team that trades for him will not want to mirror the Jets’/Eagles trade exactly.  

In my opinion, Reddick's trade value took a big hit with what he's pulling here - to the point that it would be tough to find another team, that is willing to trade for him.

I think the only chance of that realistically happening, would be a season-ending injury, to another team's starting Edge rusher.

[EM31]

It has to sting watching the opening night game last night and then realize that you are not going to be out there this week and maybe not out there for the foreseeable future.

[ARodJetsFan]

1 hour ago, EM31 said:

Did the Jets let him try to find another team willing to pay him and pay us for him?  Nothing brings home the reality of a market better than dipping your toe into that market.

Maybe that is worth a try.  We can always say no to the offer and at least there will be some clarity about what his value really is. 

Hasn't happend because JD said flat out, we're not trading him.

For Reddick & his agent to talk to other teams, JD would have to give them permission to seek a trade.

Otherwise talking to a player that's under contract with another team about a potential trade, without the contract holding team's permission, would be considered tampering.

[EM31]

54 minutes ago, ARodJetsFan said:

Hasn't happend because JD said flat out, we're not trading him.

For Reddick & his agent to talk to other teams, JD would have to give them permission to seek a trade, otherwise it would be considered tampering.

I would consider giving them permission to look.  Any deal would would still need to be accepted by us.

[Jetsfan4life90]

1 hour ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

I would argue at age 30 Reddick is most likely already past his prime aka a descending player

I mean look at Mark Andrews last night looking completely washed at age 29

Kelce doing what he’s doing at 35 is just a rare rare feat

I mean, it is just one game. That being said, Mark Andrews is my starting TE in fantasy and I may try to pick up Isaiah Likely as insurance. 

[Gaffneycatch81]

12 minutes ago, EM31 said:

I would consider giving them permission to look.  Any deal would would still need to be accepted by us.

I agree with this, except I don’t think JD needs to give THEM permission to talk to other teams in order to explore the possibility of a trade. I would think that JD at least has an idea of what Reddick is looking for, and can be (or probably has been) in touch with other teams to see if anyone would consider going there. Once he knows there’s at least some interest, THEN he can give the agent permission to talk to other team (or teams) about contract details to see if it can be hammered out.

My guess is, there are no takers … so, why would JD weaken his position by letting it be known that he’s open to trading him. I could be totally wrong — maybe the Jets really are not open to a trade under any circumstances here. Given that they’d almost certainly only get future draft capital in a trade, which is no help this year, that could well be the case. But, that seems unlike JD — general managers always explore all options … particularly at this point where he’s going to be missing games.

[BCJet]

2 hours ago, nycdan said:

I think at this point he is wrapped up in a blanket of belief that he is right and everyone else is wrong and he is not budging from it.  Ultimately, could mean he never plays another snap again but he will have that blanket to keep him warm at night.   *Shrug* it's his life and money.  

This is why Im not as upset with JD as some others.  There are a lot of scenarios that JD should have (and hopefully did) prepare for.  Having a player tank his entire season and possibly his entire future in the league is such an outlier that I doubt it was heavily taken into account.

Its arguably one of the most ridiculous and poorly thought out holdouts in league history, especially when you look at what happened to the few players who had prolonged holdouts that lasted into the season.

It would have been far smarter to try to eek out $2 million more from JD, play on a loaded defense and sign a new contract somewhere in 2025.  This holdout really makes you think "what does Reddick think he has left" if he is this firmly entrenched.

[Gaffneycatch81]

23 minutes ago, BCJet said:

This is why Im not as upset with JD as some others.  There are a lot of scenarios that JD should have (and hopefully did) prepare for.  Having a player tank his entire season and possibly his entire future in the league is such an outlier that I doubt it was heavily taken into account.

Its arguably one of the most ridiculous and poorly thought out holdouts in league history, especially when you look at what happened to the few players who had prolonged holdouts that lasted into the season.

It would have been far smarter to try to eek out $2 million more from JD, play on a loaded defense and sign a new contract somewhere in 2025.  This holdout really makes you think "what does Reddick think he has left" if he is this firmly entrenched.

Yes (bolded). That is the only explanation of their strategy that I can see that makes any sense (see my post earlier in this thread). It seems like he and his agent must have calculated that he has, AT MOST, 10 or so good/great games in his body. Maybe not even that. So, why risk a career altering or career ending injury just to show up for more games that he plays poorly in (or, as I said, gets injured). If he were confident he was going to stay healthy and play well for the whole season, the absolutely obvious move at this point would be to do so and cash in big next off season. He clearly does not believe that is likely.

The upside for the Jets is, if he DOES indeed show up and ball out for half the season or so, and indeed does not have that in him for a whole season, they are getting a good edge rusher for those games at even more of a discount (each game he misses, his game check amount gets added back to our cap), and in the other games replacing him with a cheaper player who will probably do just as well as he would have. So, in the end, despite all the angst it’s causing us the fans, it could be a win for the Jets. It’s kind of like keeping him fresh for the stretch by holding him out of the early games for free.

[Gaffneycatch81]

3 minutes ago, Gaffneycatch81 said:

Yes (bolded). That is the only explanation of their strategy that I can see that makes any sense (see my post earlier in this thread). It seems like he and his agent must have calculated that he has, AT MOST, 10 or so good/great games in his body. Maybe not even that. So, why risk a career altering or career ending injury just to show up for more games that he plays poorly in (or, as I said, gets injured). If he were confident he was going to stay healthy and play well for the whole season, the absolutely obvious move at this point would be to do so and cash in big next off season. He clearly does not believe that is likely.

The upside for the Jets is, if he DOES indeed show up and ball out for half the season or so, and indeed does not have that in him for a whole season, they are getting a good edge rusher for those games at even more of a discount (each game he misses, his game check amount gets added back to our cap), and in the other games replacing him with a cheaper player who will probably do just as well as he would have. So, in the end, despite all the angst it’s causing us the fans, it could be a win for the Jets. It’s kind of like keeping him fresh for the stretch by holding him out of the early games for free.

Double post by accident … apologies

[BCJet]

2 hours ago, Lith said:

I still think he will eventually report and worst case, play enough games to get to FA next season.  He wants free agency, he will do what he has to to get there.  Pretty sure he has to be on the active roster at least 6 games to accrue a season and make it to FA.  To me, that is the worst case we are looking at.  He accomplishes nothing by sitting out a full season and ends up with another season under the same contract he is looking to get out of.

Although there has not been much that appears to be rational in his approach to date.

If he only plays 6 games he will lose $8 million in game checks that he would need to "make up" in his new contract to make this worthwhile.  Thats not easy at his age 

[#27TheDominator]

The trade thing is a joke.  The Eagles shopped him and this was the best deal they could get.  Pretty sure the Eagles are aware that almost no Jet on the D line plays 67% of the snaps, so that is what they took.  Is Reddick's agent going to somehow get us a better or at least equivalent deal from a team willing to meet their contract demands?  After they showed they will sit?  Not a ******* chance. 

As to some of the other sh*t going on in this thread, Reddick may be past his prime.  I can 100% guarantee you, that he still believes he can get 20 sacks in the NFL.  A player calculating they are washed at 30 is not a thing.  Guys that are in their 40s think they can still come in and play.  That's why James Brown tried to come back when Franco passed him.  That's not the way an athlete's mind works.  DAMHIK.