Let's talk about Garrett Wilson

[Scott Dierking]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

He hasn't.

He didn't.

Or the QB is throwing it to the wrong place because they're not on the same page or Wilson doesn't know what "Rodgers expects" on a given blown-up play (which seems like most drop-backs for Rodgers in 2024 so far).

Where did you get your remote-psychology-evaluation degree?  And those great "see-thru-a helmet" glasses.

Wilson & Hall didn't suddenly fall off a cliff of talent and ability.

When you look at Wilson's numbers so far, he's on pace to meet almost all his normal production other than gross yards:

He averages 157 targets, he's projecting to 144 this year.  We have other receivers now our QB likes, it's not the Wilson-only show.

He averages 89 receptions.  He projecting to 85 this year.  A projected drop-off of only 4.

His drop-off is in yards primarily:  He's averaged 1,072 yards, but is projecting to only 811 as of now. 

Again, may be how he's being used, may be the routes we're calling, seems Rodgers and Hackett like Wilson on those short crossing routes which just aren't getting Wilson as many yards or opportunities for YAC.  Wilson's average catch was 8 yards+ deep, now it's down to barely past 5 yards deep with Rodgers.  Wilson averaged about 355 total YAC his first two years, now he's projecting to 310, again a possible effect of this shorter routes/passing game for Wilson under Rodgers/Hackett.

At this point, I'm not selling on Wilson just because our Offense as a whole has been woefully under-productive for it's talent.  Hall too looks like he's lost everything in this 2024 Offense, and I just don't buy that two elite talents suddenly suck.     

------------------------

So ask what the other variable are from the last few years to now.

Like a QB who prefers his boyfriend, Quitter Lazard.  And throws to the TE's alot more.  And the RB's alot as well.  

And an O-Co who has consistently misused Hall vs. Allen and may be misusing Wilson as well.

And an O-Co who may be the most predictable and least effective in the NFL.

And a WR group where Mike Williams is also a legit target.

And an O-Co who keep calling (or Rodgers keeps choosing) to throw to Gipson, who doesn't belong on an NFL field as a WR.

Wilson is likely fine.  So is Hall.  

The Offense (still) isn't, the scheme isn't, the play-calling isn't, same old Jets, same old Jets Offense.  Combine with Rodgers getting alot of other receivers more involved, and here we are.

 

 

Gee, and I thought going from a "FA street" qb to a future HOF qb would have improved his numbers and his look on routes. Guess that is a fallacy. 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

He was the alpha before Rodgers arrived and now he’s not.

He might not appreciate Rodgers trying to coach him hard because he’s probably never really been coached by anyone since he’s been here.

Or maybe he and Breece are putting too much pressure on themselves now that Aaron is here. 

Who knows.

Whatever the reason, he looks like a shell of himself right now.

[Scott Dierking]

1 hour ago, JiFtheOracle said:

Clearly him and Rodgers are not gelling like we thought but I also think he’s not adjusting to getting extra attention.  It’s like he’s not finding the soft spots between him the safety over top and he’s just making boneheaded mistakes.  I wonder if he’s pressing a bit putting too much pressure on himself to perform.  Like even his TD catch last week.  Didn’t celebrate with the team, he ran to the sideline like pissed off at something.   He’s off for sure.

Agree with this totally. Too often, I find him in the same vicinity (carelessly meandering) as another receiver.

[Warfish]

5 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Gee, and I thought going from a "FA street" qb to a future HOF qb would have improved his numbers and his look on routes. Guess that is a fallacy. 

Things are never as simplistic as that.

Even just adding Mike Williams to the mix and having Rodgers love Lazard can have a meaningful negative impact on just G. Wilson's opportunities and production numbers.

A rising tide raises all ships, true enough, but distribution is still a major factor.  Opportunities last year that went to Wilson are now going to Lazard, Williams, Conklin, Hall, Allen with Rodgers at QB.  

And to be clear, that's not necessarily a bad thing, or a sign Wilson all of sudden sucks either.

 

[GenoJet]

I'm curious if Wilson has sought out Lazard. He probably could learn a lot about what Rodgers as a QB, expects, when a play breaks down.. I think that's been the main issue.

[#27TheDominator]

1 minute ago, GenoJet said:

I'm curious if Wilson has sought out Lazard. He probably could learn a lot about what Rodgers as a QB, expects, when a play breaks down.. I think that's been the main issue.

After his TD last week Lazard was patting his helmet saying "First of many"  and "the floodgates will open."  This week he played Surtain on a sh*t field where nobody was doing anything on offense.  He does worry me a bit because he seemed to get sloppy last season and some of it seems to be carrying over, but overall I think he will be fine.  I think Williams is being worked in pretty slowly and when he gets more heavily involved Wilson will start to free up some.  

[rangerous]

2 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Explain the three prior games then.

okay, in the previous games he was being doubled more because williams wasn't quite ready to be worked in.  imagine that lazard is the receiving star at the moment after last season.  so it seems like wilson isn't running the routes to rodgers satisfaction either.  and the jets can pretty much forget about any other receiver except for conklin or one of the backs at the moment.  where's corley?

[Scott Dierking]

20 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Things are never as simplistic as that.

Even just adding Mike Williams to the mix and having Rodgers love Lazard can have a meaningful negative impact on just G. Wilson's opportunities and production numbers.

A rising tide raises all ships, true enough, but distribution is still a major factor.  Opportunities last year that went to Wilson are now going to Lazard, Williams, Conklin, Hall, Allen with Rodgers at QB.  

And to be clear, that's not necessarily a bad thing, or a sign Wilson all of sudden sucks either.

 

Where did I say he "sucks"? he just appears out of place out there. He is not clicking with Rodgers. Heck, he has had a lot more time with Rodgers than Williams, and they appear clicking better as a tandem. I would expect to have someone with the pedigree of Wilson, that he would have better productivity. 

What worries me most is that he appears lost in the system. 

[#27TheDominator]

15 minutes ago, rangerous said:

okay, in the previous games he was being doubled more because williams wasn't quite ready to be worked in.  imagine that lazard is the receiving star at the moment after last season.  so it seems like wilson isn't running the routes to rodgers satisfaction either.  and the jets can pretty much forget about any other receiver except for conklin or one of the backs at the moment.  where's corley?

Why are you looking for more receivers?  If anything, Rodgers has probably been spreading it around too much.  Ruckert is getting targets - manufactured ones at that.   Gipson is getting targets.  Plenty down the stretch and presumably those would go to Corley if Corley was looking good.  

[Plen T]

Rodgers has missed him at least 5 times, throwing as his feet

by week 6 it should be moving and grooving

[Warfish]

 

17 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

he just appears out of place out there. He is not clicking with Rodgers. Heck, he has had a lot more time with Rodgers than Williams, and they appear clicking better as a tandem. I would expect to have someone with the pedigree of Wilson, that he would have better productivity. 

What worries me most is that he appears lost in the system. 

He and Rodgers definitely do not seem to be clicking or on the same page or whichever trope we want to use for that kind of disconnect.

With that said, Wilson is still on pace thru 4 games to be end pretty close to his usual annual numbers (accounting for other options existing now that didn't before for our QB to throw to, and having a QB who won't focus only on Wilson) other than gross yardage. 

So I think the sudden hysteria that Wilson is somehow lost or washed or whatever various folks have been saying last night and today may be a bit over-stated.

But that's fans.  One week they love a guy, the next they think he's washed, lol.  

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

 

He and Rodgers definitely do not seem to be clicking or on the same page or whichever trope we want to use for that kind of disconnect.

With that said, Wilson is still on pace thru 4 games to be end pretty close to his usual annual numbers (accounting for other options existing now that didn't before for our QB to throw to, and having a QB who won't focus only on Wilson) other than gross yardage. 

So I think the sudden hysteria that Wilson is somehow lost or washed or whatever various folks have been saying last night and today may be a bit over-stated.

But that's fans.  One week they love a guy, the next they think he's washed, lol.  

In the same post, you have now said he "does not seem to be on the same page" with Rodgers, and then you say "the sudden hysteria that Wilson is somehow lost", "may be a bit overstated".  LOL.

 

[GenoJet]

34 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

After his TD last week Lazard was patting his helmet saying "First of many"  and "the floodgates will open."  This week he played Surtain on a sh*t field where nobody was doing anything on offense.  He does worry me a bit because he seemed to get sloppy last season and some of it seems to be carrying over, but overall I think he will be fine.  I think Williams is being worked in pretty slowly and when he gets more heavily involved Wilson will start to free up some.  

I hope so. Williams has made more big catches than Wilson, and like you said, they're easing him in slowly.

[Warfish]

10 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

In the same post, you have now said he "does not seem to be on the same page" with Rodgers, and then you say "the sudden hysteria that Wilson is somehow lost", "may be a bit overstated".  LOL.

Is this a "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" argument you want to have? 

Being "Lost" is pretty bad, about as bad as a player can get.   Other similar terms like "is washed", the same.

"Not yet being on the same page 100% of the time" is a lot less bad. 

Meaningful degrees of difference.  

 

[Matt39]

1 hour ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

He was the alpha before Rodgers arrived and now he’s not.

He might not appreciate Rodgers trying to coach him hard because he’s probably never really been coached by anyone since he’s been here.

Or maybe he and Breece are putting too much pressure on themselves now that Aaron is here. 

Who knows.

Whatever the reason, he looks like a shell of himself right now.

Lafleur was let go for coaching. He was the bad cop. Now it’s Rodgers. 

[Scott Dierking]

19 minutes ago, Warfish said:

 

Being "Lost" is pretty bad, about as bad as a player can get.   

 

 

No, it isn't. 

Not really in the mood for your sanctimony today. Baseball to watch. Have a great day.

[NYJCAP2]

Not concerned about Wilson as a part of the offense. Rodgers will spread it around.
 

More concerned with his fumbling problem.

[Jetsplayer21]

3 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Just a guess but Rodgers wants his WRs to be precise in their routes and where they end up. GW is supposedly more of a creative route runner. He may be getting less targets due to his creativity whereas Zach Wilson is all about that street ball.

Very likely. Garrett had to make a million adjustments for Zach. Just like the OL, he and some receivers are learning how to play with a HOF qb who is trying to get them all on same page. They definitely need to listen and adjust to Rodgers, certainly cannot trust the coaches to make the right corrections.

[Warfish]

5 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

No, it isn't. 

Then we agree to disagree.  

Quote

Not really in the mood for your sanctimony today.

And I am equally in no mood for your pedanticism.

Quote

Baseball to watch. Have a great day.

I'm jealous.  I'm sure one day my Nats will be in the postseason again.

Maybe in 2040 or so....

[jgb]

Just now, Warfish said:

Then we agree to disagree.  

And I an equally in no mood for your Pendanticism.

I'm jealous.  I'm sure one day my Nats will be in the postseason again.

Maybe in 2040 or so....

I enjoy watching you dissolve others’ arguments since you’ve done it to mine so many times 

[Greensleeves]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

P.S. Rodgers looks more mopey and disgruntled than anyone else on the Jets.  Why is THAT not part of the issue, but Wilson's frustrations are?

No bias here. right?  Rodgers couldn't possibly be part of the problem so far to some minds.

How do we have TWO threads whining about Wilson, and none complaining about Rodgers boyfriend Hackett and his horrific play-calling and offense? 

Rodgers isn't moping around - he expects more out of his guys - like maybe not make a million stupid pre snap mistakes and route running errors. He lets them know it's NOT OK and he should. 

[Jimmy 2 Times]

Zach Wilson locked on and force fed G Wilson.  He had a mass quantity of targets usually while the team was trailing big against soft coverage. 
Now he’s only getting looks when he’s open.  It appears his route running and elusiveness was overrated.  His hands and ball security was always questionable.  The kid is the best receiver we’ve drafted in forever, but that doesn’t make him great… or even good. 

[kmnj]

The WR room outside of Wilson is trash and don’t get me started on Corley 

teams know just focus on Wilson and load up ip front to stuff the run

How do u fix it ? Devante Adams over pay if needed and do it now 

[Jimmy 2 Times]

6 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

Rodgers isn't moping around - he expects more out of his guys - like maybe not make a million stupid pre snap mistakes and route running errors. He lets them know it's NOT OK and he should. 

Rodgers in the huddle, “ ok guys, we’ve got a hard count here, don’t jump.”

 

False start Jets. 

[rex-n-effect]

GW is a receiver who wants to play college ball by getting long bombs he can fight to get under and win. He was getting a lot more of that treatment his first year. Hackett has him camped out more on short routes which is a complete mistake. GW isn't great at precise routes, ball control, or fighting for YAC. ZW needed that help from receivers to get open. Rodgers wants to be the one improvising while the rest of the offense goes where they are supposed to. 

[LockeJET]

All you have to do is look at all the top receivers every game. It’s 8 to 10 catches and at least a touchdown it seems. Wilson is good but he isn’t Chase, JJ, Lamb, Collin’s, Adam’s etc. 

[bicketybam]

Trade him while he has value. He's not elite.