For all the chad-haters

[Barton]

How in the world can a team have a 2-1 record if they play 16 games in a season? Do you think i mean at the time they play each other? That would be dumb. At the end of the season, we look at the records of each team chad played, and that is how we decide if chad has a winning record against opponents.

If you state that he will not have a winning record, then take the bet, the qb rating is just extra insurance for you. He would need BOTH for me to win.

OH, ok. Gotcha. And you know what, I dont care its just the f'n internet, so........

BRING IT BEYATCH! I TAKE THE BET!

[joebabyny]

OH, ok. Gotcha. And you know what, I dont care its just the f'n internet, so........

BRING IT BEYATCH! I TAKE THE BET!

ok, that is 3 in so far!

Maxxx, STICKY YO!!!

[L.I.MikeBleedsGreen]

I thought you were a Jets fan?????

Here are the vital stats for Penny and our Jets upcoming season if we want to go the Playoffs:

Penny min 20TD's max 10 INTs, starts 16 games.

Running game, min 1000 yards. Best case, 1400 yards (combined).

LBacker Sacks, min 7, best case 10.

DLine sacks, min 15, best case 20.

secondary sacks, min 5, best case 10.

take aways +10 min, take aways best case +15 (mind you thats with penny throwing 10 INTs).

I am ,I'm Just not a fan of Chad and those lame ducks he throws up every game .We (the Jets) just happen to be stuck with this Bum. Chad couldn't even help the Lions if he wasn't on our team,YES Jon Kitna is Better ,and Jon Kitna is a complete mound of turd.

[Barton]

ok, that is 3 in so far!

Maxxx, STICKY YO!!!

So if you lose, you're gonna have 3 pics from each of us?

[Boozer76]

Maybe any of those qualifications individually, but not when added together. The numbers don't lie, look at last years stats. I took what you said and applied it to last years players and that is what i came up with.

NONSENSE!! Meeting those criteria would have put him 9th overall based on QB rating.

[joebabyny]

So if you lose, you're gonna have 3 pics from each of us?

one from each of you, pic, text, whatever.

[Sperm Edwards]

How in the world can a team have a 2-1 record if they play 16 games in a season? Do you think i mean at the time they play each other? That would be dumb. At the end of the season, we look at the records of each team chad played, and that is how we decide if chad has a winning record against opponents.

If you state that he will not have a winning record, then take the bet, the qb rating is just extra insurance for you. He would need BOTH for me to win.

Yes and no.

When we played Tennessee week one, they were 0-0. Even though they finished 8-8, the team we played resembled the one that started 0-5 than the one that finished 6-1.

When we beat Miami early in the season, they were a 1-4 team (that coming against those same Titans that would start 0-5) & would go on to start 1-6. They were not playing well. For 5 weeks after their bye week they were one of the hottest teams in the league. But we faced a team in the midst of a 1-6 start and faced them again in the middle of an 0-3 finish. We didn't face them when they were hot.

When Buffalo beat us late in the season, they were playing a lot better than their final 7-9 record indicated. The games surrounding our matchup they beat GB, lost to Indy by 1 pt, beat Houston, beat Jax, lost to SD by 3 pts, beat us, then shut out the then-hot Dolfags before losing by 1 pt to Ten. They were a good team at that point in the season & man-handled us. But if you only look at their final record, we beat a losing team.

Some teams are also MUCH better at home than away. Jacksonville is a good example. They were great at home (6-2 & lost both games by 3 pts each) but awful on the road (2-6). We faced them in Jacksonville, a tougher matchup than if they were in Giants Stadium. Facing a team like that, you don't just look at their 8-8 record, but you also look at where the game took place.

Indy is good example of bpth of the above. We played them at home. Other than our matchup, Indy was 3-4 on the road. Beating us made them 4-4 by season's end. We made a game of it, but the way they played at home, it probably wouldn't have been nearly as close. At the same time, when we played them was week 4. Through week 10, they were 5-0 at home & 4-0 on the road. We didn't play the team that would lose their last 4 road games. We played the one that won all 4 of their initial road games (including our matchup).

When we beat the Vikings, they were a long ways away from the team that started 4-2.

I don't like stats when examining a player's effectiveness because it averages out everything as though one were playing a little bit of a tough opponent & a little bit of a weak opponent every week. This is not the case. And when the playoffs come around & we travel to Foxboro, the Jets didn't get to play half the game against the Raiders & half the game against the Patriots.

Against GB, Chad threw 2 TD's, but that doesn't take into account the two that GB just flat-out dropped. I don't recall two more TD passes that the Jets' receives flat-out dropped to balance that out. Sometimes you just have to watch with your own eyes.

[joebabyny]

No, what he's saying is the criteria for QB rating is extremely flawed, which it is. It is heavily based on completion percentage, so a QB like chad is always going to have a good rating when he hardly ever throws the ball over 10 yards.

A better criteria is this:

If he throws over 3500 yards with 23 or more TD's with no more than 12 INT's, I'll take your bet with no problem.

NONSENSE!! Meeting those criteria would have put him 9th overall based on QB rating.

QB's who in 06 met all your requirements, sorted from most yards down.

Brees-4418-26-11

Manning-4397-31-9

Bulger-4301-24-8

Brady-3529-24-12 *****notice how brady is ONLY 29 yards and 1 td within your criteria??

Bulger was only on an 8-8 team, so i would toss him from the list, but even if we don't, that is only 4 qb's who make your cut, and it is interesting that Brady, who some consider to be the best qb in the league, barely makes the cut.

Boozer, i know you know what you are talking about around here, and I would not pretend to be a greater authority on football, but this is just simple stats that you provided. The purpose of this bet is to state that chad is totally capable of winning for us and that this talk of benching him for a rookie is foolish. If a qb is accurate enough to score well with a good rating PLUS can swing a winning record against winning teams, then he DEFINITELY desrves to be starting and the talk should end because the vast majority of qb's can not accomplish both in a given season. Your criteria means you will not consider chad good enough for us unless he puts up the same numbers brady does AT A MINIMUM or performs as well as guys like manning or brees. Well, 28 teams don't have a qb that good, i guess someone should call the bears and the chargers and tell them they can't get to the bowl either so they better go back to the drawing board. Oh wait, the bears were there last year (grossmen, 3193-23-20-barely met only 1 of your criteria with 23 tds).

Please, for my football education, explain to me what is wrong with the way i am reading nfl.com's stats and the criteria you specified and how it is in fact only a top ten qb who meets all of those requirements when there is only 8 qb's who passed for over 3500 yards alone, forget about the fact that 5 of them didn't cover the other requirements you laid down.

[Boozer76]

QB's who in 06 met all your requirements, sorted from most yards down.

Brees-4418-26-11

Manning-4397-31-9

Bulger-4301-24-8

Brady-3529-24-12 *****notice how brady is ONLY 29 yards and 1 td within your criteria??

Bulger was only on an 8-8 team, so i would toss him from the list, but even if we don't, that is only 4 qb's who make your cut, and it is interesting that Brady, who some consider to be the best qb in the league, barely makes the cut.

Boozer, i know you know what you are talking about around here, and I would not pretend to be a greater authority on football, but this is just simple stats that you provided. The purpose of this bet is to state that chad is totally capable of winning for us and that this talk of benching him for a rookie is foolish. If a qb is accurate enough to score well with a good rating PLUS can swing a winning record against winning teams, then he DEFINITELY desrves to be starting and the talk should end because the vast majority of qb's can not accomplish both in a given season. Your criteria means you will not consider chad good enough for us unless he puts up the same numbers brady does AT A MINIMUM or performs as well as guys like manning or brees. Well, 28 teams don't have a qb that good, i guess someone should call the bears and the chargers and tell them they can't get to the bowl either so they better go back to the drawing board. Oh wait, the bears were there last year (grossmen, 3193-23-20-barely met only 1 of your criteria with 23 tds).

Please, for my football education, explain to me what is wrong with the way i am reading nfl.com's stats and the criteria you specified and how it is in fact only a top ten qb who meets all of those requirements when there is only 8 qb's who passed for over 3500 yards alone, forget about the fact that 5 of them didn't cover the other requirements you laid down.

OK, I probably should have clarified a little more, my post had quite a bit of sarcasm. My point was the QB rating has a top 5 QB rated 9th. It is a terribly useless stat that is heavily based on completion percentage, thus a QB who averages 4 yards a pass and completes 85% of them is going to have a much better QB rating than a guy who averages 15 yards a pass with a 60% rating, with all other stats being relative. The flaws of the QB rating are precisely what makes Chad look like a much better QB, statistically speaking, than he is.

[joebabyny]

OK, I probably should have clarified a little more, my post had quite a bit of sarcasm. My point was the QB rating has a top 5 QB rated 9th. It is a terribly useless stat that is heavily based on completion percentage, thus a QB who averages 4 yards a pass and completes 85% of them is going to have a much better QB rating than a guy who averages 15 yards a pass with a 60% rating, with all other stats being relative. The flaws of the QB rating are precisely what makes Chad look like a much better QB, statistically speaking, than he is.

Ok, so what about when you combine a top 1'3 qb rating with a winning record against teams with a winning season? Does that prove Chad is a viable starter who can get the job done? An accurate passer who can win games against good teams.

[Boozer76]

Ok, so what about when you combine a top 1'3 qb rating with a winning record against teams with a winning season? Does that prove Chad is a viable starter who can get the job done? An accurate passer who can win games against good teams.

No. Again, Chad is always going to have a good completion percentage thus he will always have a good QB rating regardless. If you take the averages of Chad's last relatively healthy season with a winning record and spread it over 16 games he would have had 3289 yds, 20 TD's, and 11 INTs. That would equate to a 91 QB rating thanks to his completion rating. Are you telling me those numbers are better than Tom Brady last year? Judging a QB based on QB rating is like judging a female pornstar simply on whether she has a vagina.

There are far more factors that quite frankly Chad does not exhibit. How about gamewinning drives in clutch moments. How about rising to the challenge and leading the offense to more that 14 points against tough D's once in a while. How about carrying the team every once in a while like a real leader. Laugh all you want, but our D was amongst the best in the league in points allowed in the second half of last season. That's why we won 10 games.

[joebabyny]

No. Again, Chad is always going to have a good completion percentage thus he will always have a good QB rating regardless. If you take the averages of Chad's last relatively healthy season with a winning record and spread it over 16 games he would have had 3289 yds, 20 TD's, and 11 INTs. That would equate to a 91 QB rating thanks to his completion rating. Are you telling me those numbers are better than Tom Brady last year? Judging a QB based on QB rating is like judging a female pornstar simply on whether she has a vagina.

There are far more factors that quite frankly Chad does not exhibit. How about gamewinning drives in clutch moments. How about rising to the challenge and leading the offense to more that 14 points against tough D's once in a while. How about carrying the team every once in a while like a real leader. Laugh all you want, but our D was amongst the best in the league in points allowed in the second half of last season. That's why we won 10 games.

Ahh, so if his stats and winning record are on point we will be looking to the intangables to fault him, is that it? Somehow i think even if we won a superbowl, a lot of fans here would be incapable of giving the man his due.

[L.I.MikeBleedsGreen]

Ahh, so if his stats and winning record are on point we will be looking to the intangables to fault him, is that it? Somehow i think even if we won a superbowl, a lot of fans here would be incapable of giving the man his due.

If chad won the superbowl it would be b/c of our Defense LOLsc

[GimmeShelter]

Apparantly they are all happy to talk tough like they know what's up until someone comes along throwing down a bet. HAHAHA, who is afraid to wear a joebaby sig for a year? PUSSIES!

Seriously, saying they would take a bet if Pennington had stats that matched Tom Brady's last year is just absurd.

Well after all we don't call Barton the waffler for nothing. I am amazed how our "Pennington gets yanked 1/2 way through the season" folks suddenly have stipulations on your proposed bet.

[ECURB]

Well after all we don't call Barton the waffler for nothing. I am amazed how our "Pennington gets yanked 1/2 way through the season" folks suddenly have stipulations on your proposed bet.

Isnt it something... they obviously think he will do well... but wont back down from their "I hate Chad stance..."

The only 2 people I EXPECT to take this bet are 124 and Barton...

[joebabyny]

Well after all we don't call Barton the waffler for nothing. I am amazed how our "Pennington gets yanked 1/2 way through the season" folks suddenly have stipulations on your proposed bet.

well, in all fairness to Barton, once i added the second part of the bet, about chad having a winning season against winning teams, he stepped up and is now part of the bet.

[GimmeShelter]

Isnt it something... they obviously think he will do well... but wont back down from their "I hate Chad stance..."

The only 2 people I EXPECT to take this bet are 124 and Barton...

And Crazy Carl let Barton out of his losing bets anyway...see the BB forum.

I wanna see Sperm, Troll, Booz and 124 in this as well.

[joebabyny]

And Crazy Carl let Barton out of his losing bets anyway...see the BB forum.

I wanna see Sperm, Troll, Booz and 124 in this as well.

Well as far as i am concerned, this is a great bet for them, i am sure not one of them thinks Chad has a shot in hell of having a winning season against winning teams.

And nobody is being let out, the minute Chad steps on the field as the starting qb game one all bets are LOCKED!

[124]

How is Chad a "great" QB for us joebaby if he can get in the top 1/3rd of QB passer rating? That stat does not mean greatness. Chad is mediocre and as I've said, anyone can boost his completion percentage and qb ranking how Chad does it, dumpoffs.

Either way, you're on.

But I think the fairer bet would be if Chad can lead the Jets to more then 10 wins in the regular season and postseason combined, which he has never done before.

Even '04 when combined the Jets had 11 wins, 9 of them only came with Chad leading the way.

[joebabyny]

How is Chad a "great" QB for us joebaby if he can get in the top 1/3rd of QB passer rating? That stat does not mean greatness. Chad is mediocre and as I've said, anyone can boost his completion percentage and qb ranking how Chad does it, dumpoffs.

Either way, you're on.

But I think the fairer bet would be if Chad can lead the Jets to more then 10 wins in the regular season and postseason combined, which he has never done before.

Even '04 when combined the Jets had 11 wins, 9 of them only came with Chad leading the way.

Reread the bet, qb rating is only half of it, the other half is a winning record against winning teams. I would think that would be harder for him to accomplish then 11 wins pre and post total, right?

So that is 4 in so far!

[SeniorFlaJet]

Could I ask a question on what constitutes Chad's record against winning teams.

Is it he wins a game against a team that CURRENTLY has a winning record or

do you wait until the end of the season to determine that.

As an example when they meet Philly early in the season, Philly is undefeated at 6-0

and Chad beats them with a great effort. But Philly loses every other game the

rest of the season and obviously is not a winning team.

Is this considered a winning record for Chad or not??

[SoFlaJets]

Could I ask a question on what constitutes Chad's record against winning teams.

Is it he wins a game against a team that CURRENTLY has a winning record or

do you wait until the end of the season to determine that.

As an example when they meet Philly early in the season, Philly is undefeated at 6-0

and Chad beats them with a great effort. But Philly loses every other game the

rest of the season and obviously is not a winning team.

Is this considered a winning record for Chad or not??

you know it depends on WHO is doing the rating Senior-if it supports an agenda that a certain poster might have then it doesn't matter how it's spun...you know like make up a number and say "Chad has never come back to beat a team after being behind by this many points"

[NJ]

Could I ask a question on what constitutes Chad's record against winning teams.

Is it he wins a game against a team that CURRENTLY has a winning record or

do you wait until the end of the season to determine that.

As an example when they meet Philly early in the season, Philly is undefeated at 6-0

and Chad beats them with a great effort. But Philly loses every other game the

rest of the season and obviously is not a winning team.

Is this considered a winning record for Chad or not??

The only way I'm in and the only way it makes any sense is looking at the teams record after all regular season play is completed. I believe thats the offering Joe is making.

[joebabyny]

Could I ask a question on what constitutes Chad's record against winning teams.

Is it he wins a game against a team that CURRENTLY has a winning record or

do you wait until the end of the season to determine that.

As an example when they meet Philly early in the season, Philly is undefeated at 6-0

and Chad beats them with a great effort. But Philly loses every other game the

rest of the season and obviously is not a winning team.

Is this considered a winning record for Chad or not??

This was discussed, but i think i will add it to my first post in the thread. I think the only way that is fair is to figure it out at the end of the season, looking at what each teams final regular season record is.

[Sperm Edwards]

you know it depends on WHO is doing the rating Senior-if it supports an agenda that a certain poster might have then it doesn't matter how it's spun...you know like make up a number and say "Chad has never come back to beat a team after being behind by this many points"

Ah, my brother, you KNOW that I should be the judge of this.

[joebabyny]

Ah, my brother, you KNOW that I should be the judge of this.

I think with the way i spelled out the rules and fine print in my first post, there is not really room for "creative interpretation."

[Sperm Edwards]

I think with the way i spelled out the rules and fine print in my first post, there is not really room for "creative interpretation."

always. there is always room.

[joebabyny]

you know it depends on WHO is doing the rating Senior-if it supports an agenda that a certain poster might have then it doesn't matter how it's spun...you know like make up a number and say "Chad has never come back to beat a team after being behind by this many points"

Ahhh yes, from the collection of stats called "the things i will make up because nobody can really figure if that is wrong and call me out on it."

LOL, i think if people read my original post, they will see that i am totally fair with how this will be judged and on the level.

[joebabyny]

always. there is always room.

Then please tell me where the holes are so i can fix them, i have no intention of trying to fleece anyone, and I expect the same of anyone who wagers with me.

[Sperm Edwards]

Then please tell me where the holes are so i can fix them, i have no intention of trying to fleece anyone, and I expect the same of anyone who wagers with me.

I'll be honest just this once. I didn't read it.

[joebabyny]

I'll be honest just this once. I didn't read it.

Well that f###in' figures, hahaha.

[joebabyny]

nice, STICKY STICKY!!

[BP]

nice, STICKY STICKY!!

How the **** did this get stickied?

[The Troll]

And Crazy Carl let Barton out of his losing bets anyway...see the BB forum.

I wanna see Sperm, Troll, Booz and 124 in this as well.

I am not taking a bet on QB rating.

Any statistic that tells me that Damon Huard was the second best QB in the NFL last season is a flawed one.

[GimmeShelter]

I am not taking a bet on QB rating.

Any statistic that tells me that Damon Huard was the second best QB in the NFL last season is a flawed one.

That's not the entire bet and Huard didn't play 10 games which is also a stipulation of the bet.

If you are going to be a chronic complainer at least step up and put your sig where your mouth is. Waffle Barton and Clemonade 124 are in......definitely need you on board.

All in good fun Troll.