Chad won 10 games last year... Yet Jet fans say he can never win 12 in a season?

[124]

I sort of feel like Im cheating on Chad when I have those thoughts... but I love the idea of Brad Smith at QB.... lol... even if it makes no logical sense...

Dude did you see the 4th Preseason game last year against Philly in the 4th quarter? Brad Smith electrified the **** out of that 20,000 crowd we had at the stadium and took the team down the field for a touchdown. Ever since then I have LOVED my boy... BSMITH!!!!

Start Brad Smith baby! Option time!

[LWC611]

These Chad sucks threads are getting tired. At the end of the day he is the starting QB. Wishing otherwise will not make it so. If the Jets get eliminated from playoff contention early, then we will Clemens. If not his action will end after preseason. But enough already. Chad is our guy like it or not. Lets Just get behind him and Root our boys on to victory.

[Boozer76]

Here's the bottom line: Nobody here can make any factual claim whatsoever regarding Kellen Clemens. Nobody. There is no evidence to base those claims, good or bad.

Bottom Line #2: Chad Pennington has not played anything near the way he did in 2002 on a consistent basis. Why he hasn't can be debated until we are all blue in the face. Personally, I feel it has to do with injuries and the fact that D's had adjusted to him once they saw what the Raiders did to him in 2002 by crowding the box and taking away the short passes.

In the end it is justifiable for people to desire better at the QB position, whether it be Chad playing better, Kellen stepping in, or drafting/signing a different QB.

[NJ]

In the end it is justifiable for people to desire better at the QB position, whether it be Chad playing better, Kellen stepping in, or drafting/signing a different QB.

It is if you're a Jets fan. Those of us that don't think Chad has what it takes to do his part in getting us a Lombardi Trophy always get called out as unfaithful when in reality - we've just seen enough and want an upgrade at the position. I don't know who that is or how we get him if it's not Clemens.

[ECURB]

It is if you're a Jets fan. Those of us that don't think Chad has what it takes to do his part in getting us a Lombardi Trophy always get called out as unfaithful when in reality - we've just seen enough and want an upgrade at the position. I don't know who that is or how we get him if it's not Clemens.

Your not unfaithful... it only gets silly when someone like Barton is so wildly against Chad... Ill take an upgrade at ANY position including QB... but I need to know there is an upgrade before I send a player packing...

[Boozer76]

Your not unfaithful... it only gets silly when someone like Barton is so wildly against Chad... Ill take an upgrade at ANY position including QB... but I need to know there is an upgrade before I send a player packing...

This is where you aned I differ a bit. To me Chad is the QB equivalent of Herm Edwards. He looks alot prettier on paper than he really is. There was alot of support for Herm before he left, and the main argument was "I wan't to know who is out there that is better before we cut ties". Thinking like that would have us sitting around praying that a known commodity was available and that we absolutely could get him. Instead, we waived bye bye and signed a guy people barely ever heard of. we did our homework and found a gem. I am alot more willing to take that chance at QB than you seem to be. I firmly believe that there needs to be a heck of alot of luck, coincendence, and strong pieces around Chad for him to take a team to, and win, a SB. People here can bicker all they want on my stance on that, but that's my opinion. I would much rather risk enduring 4-12 seasons if it means we were taking an educated chance for greatness than go 10-6 for the next 4 or 5 seasons and be bounced from the playoffs each time in the early going.

[Barton]

Your not unfaithful... it only gets silly when someone like Barton is so wildly against Chad... Ill take an upgrade at ANY position including QB... but I need to know there is an upgrade before I send a player packing...

Ah, the Herman Edwards fan club motto from 2006.

That will not happen. Risks will have to be taken, bottom line. Great QBs are not signed on the FA market. You draft & develop them yourself, take a risk by putting them in the starting lineup and hope for the best.

To take the next step we have to take a chance on an unproven quantity, bottom line. Tom Brady aint going on the FA market and we're not gonna sign him.

[LWC611]

This is where you aned I differ a bit. To me Chad is the QB equivalent of Herm Edwards. He looks alot prettier on paper than he really is. There was alot of support for Herm before he left, and the main argument was "I wan't to know who is out there that is better before we cut ties". Thinking like that would have us sitting around praying that a known commodity was available and that we absolutely could get him. Instead, we waived bye bye and signed a guy people barely ever heard of. we did our homework and found a gem. I am alot more willing to take that chance at QB than you seem to be. I firmly believe that there needs to be a heck of alot of luck, coincendence, and strong pieces around Chad for him to take a team to, and win, a SB. People here can bicker all they want on my stance on that, but that's my opinion. I would much rather risk enduring 4-12 seasons if it means we were taking an educated chance for greatness than go 10-6 for the next 4 or 5 seasons and be bounced from the playoffs each time in the early going.

I have seen too many losing seasons, I would rather be 10 - 6 for the next 4 or five seasons, as long as we a taking strides to fill the holes and make improvements. I submit to you that we can do both and we do not need to be 4-12 to get better.

[Boozer76]

I have seen too many losing seasons, I would rather be 10 - 6 for the next 4 or five seasons, as long as we a taking strides to fill the holes and make improvements. I submit to you that we can do both and we do not need to be 4-12 to get better.

Therein lies this entire debate. the stance of alot of people is that Chad would need an incredible D and an incredible RB to help him win a SB. He's not going to carry this team on his shoulders, and he's not good enough to put up a ton of points to compensatew for a mediocre D. It is incredibly difficult to put together a D the caliber of BAL or TB in the past. To do so over 4 seasons would take an enormous amount of luck. To alot of people, Chad is the hole that truly needs to be filled.

[Barton]

Therein lies this entire debate. the stance of alot of people is that Chad would need an incredible D and an incredible RB to help him win a SB. He's not going to carry this team on his shoulders, and he's not good enough to put up a ton of points to compensatew for a mediocre D. It is incredibly difficult to put together a D the caliber of BAL or TB in the past. To do so over 4 seasons would take an enormous amount of luck. To alot of people, Chad is the hole that truly needs to be filled.

Great post.

And really, 3-4 defenses arent built to complete dominate an entire season or even playoff run. 3-4 defenses are great at bending but not breaking. See patriots dynasty defense.

[leonwash29]

Smith should be our qb... he can run but he's no rb, he can catch but i think he plays qb better, if he isnt going to start i still want him to be playing qb ocasionally both for fan excitement + momentum boosts and confusing defenses

[shasta]

Therein lies this entire debate. the stance of alot of people is that Chad would need an incredible D and an incredible RB to help him win a SB. He's not going to carry this team on his shoulders, and he's not good enough to put up a ton of points to compensatew for a mediocre D. It is incredibly difficult to put together a D the caliber of BAL or TB in the past. To do so over 4 seasons would take an enormous amount of luck. To alot of people, Chad is the hole that truly needs to be filled.

Best post I've seen on this Forum. Your 100% right, Jet fans would be better off if Chad totally sucked, that way it would be an easy choice to replace him and let a young Q.B. grow. A truly great QB can take a very average team and make them great, just look at the 01 Patriots. Everything about that team was average, the thing the at set them apart was a slightly above average defense and an truly great QB. well and of course coaching.

[flgreen]

To alot of people, Chad is the hole that truly needs to be filled.

Fortunately Mangini isn't one of those people, or we would be talking about how Brady Quinn will never lead us to a Super Bowl right now

[#27TheDominator]

Best post I've seen on this Forum. Your 100% right, Jet fans would be better off if Chad totally sucked, that way it would be an easy choice to replace him and let a young Q.B. grow. A truly great QB can take a very average team and make them great, just look at the 01 Patriots. Everything about that team was average, the thing the at set them apart was a slightly above average defense and an truly great QB. well and of course coaching.

If they just pulled Bledsoe for Brady the team would not have been entirely behind the move and Johnny Superstar might never have been born. Don't discount the importance of circumstance in player development. Especially at qb.

[PeterNorth09]

This is where you aned I differ a bit. To me Chad is the QB equivalent of Herm Edwards. He looks alot prettier on paper than he really is. There was alot of support for Herm before he left, and the main argument was "I wan't to know who is out there that is better before we cut ties". Thinking like that would have us sitting around praying that a known commodity was available and that we absolutely could get him. Instead, we waived bye bye and signed a guy people barely ever heard of. we did our homework and found a gem. I am alot more willing to take that chance at QB than you seem to be. I firmly believe that there needs to be a heck of alot of luck, coincendence, and strong pieces around Chad for him to take a team to, and win, a SB. People here can bicker all they want on my stance on that, but that's my opinion. I would much rather risk enduring 4-12 seasons if it means we were taking an educated chance for greatness than go 10-6 for the next 4 or 5 seasons and be bounced from the playoffs each time in the early going.

You're way off about Pennington. Chad Pennington is a much better quarterback than that conservative idiot Herm Edwards is a coach. The only reason Herm has any respect around the league as a coach is because he was able to make the playoffs by the skin of his teeth with Chad Pennington and Curtis Martin both in their primes. Chad earned whatever respect he has around the league. Herm just rode Chad and Curtis.

Mangini still has a lot prove as a coach. Last year's schedule was a cupcake-fest. Raiders, Texans, Lions and Titans (before Vince Young got hot) was about as soft as it gets. If Mangini can win 10 or more games with this year's schedule than he is an elite coach. Not saying he won't do it, just saying that's what he has to do before he can be called a "gem".

I do agree with you that it is time for the Jets to move on at the qb position. Are Kellen or Tui the answer? Probably not. But this year we need to see if Kellen is the real deal or not. If Kellen is the next Brett Favre like alot of you say then great. If Kellen sucks then next off-season Tanenbaum can look for another QB. But we need to find out now, not three years from now.

[serphnx]

Yeah usually you need an injury or complete ineptitiude before a new QB can come in, but I'm hoping for neither.

[Barton]

You're way off about Pennington. Chad Pennington is a much better quarterback than that conservative idiot Herm Edwards is a coach. The only reason Herm has any respect around the league as a coach is because he was able to make the playoffs by the skin of his teeth with Chad Pennington and Curtis Martin both in their primes. Chad earned whatever respect he has around the league. Herm just rode Chad and Curtis.

Mangini still has a lot prove as a coach. Last year's schedule was a cupcake-fest. Raiders, Texans, Lions and Titans (before Vince Young got hot) was about as soft as it gets. If Mangini can win 10 or more games with this year's schedule than he is an elite coach. Not saying he won't do it, just saying that's what he has to do before he can be called a "gem".

I do agree with you that it is time for the Jets to move on at the qb position. Are Kellen or Tui the answer? Probably not. But this year we need to see if Kellen is the real deal or not. If Kellen is the next Brett Favre like alot of you say then great. If Kellen sucks then next off-season Tanenbaum can look for another QB. But we need to find out now, not three years from now.

O'RLY? I've been saying that for about a year and you've been killing me for it!

[Barton]

.

[gangreenman]

You're way off about Pennington. Chad Pennington is a much better quarterback than that conservative idiot Herm Edwards is a coach. The only reason Herm has any respect around the league as a coach is because he was able to make the playoffs by the skin of his teeth with Chad Pennington and Curtis Martin both in their primes. Chad earned whatever respect he has around the league. Herm just rode Chad and Curtis.

Mangini still has a lot prove as a coach. Last year's schedule was a cupcake-fest. Raiders, Texans, Lions and Titans (before Vince Young got hot) was about as soft as it gets. If Mangini can win 10 or more games with this year's schedule than he is an elite coach. Not saying he won't do it, just saying that's what he has to do before he can be called a "gem".

I do agree with you that it is time for the Jets to move on at the qb position. Are Kellen or Tui the answer? Probably not. But this year we need to see if Kellen is the real deal or not. If Kellen is the next Brett Favre like alot of you say then great. If Kellen sucks then next off-season Tanenbaum can look for another QB. But we need to find out now, not three years from now.

I'm sorry. You're way off about the QB situation. For one, what we need to do is PLAY THE BEST PLAYER. The goal is to win games this year, every year, the only way its possible to do that is to PLAY THE BEST PLAYER. Second, no we don't need to find out about Clemens RIGHT NOW. If he's not ready yet, doesn't mean that he'll never be ready, it just means that he's not ready yet. If he is ready now and beats out Pennington in camp, he should start and we'll see how he responds. But the NFL is league where sometimes it takes players a few years to get orientated with the systems and adjusted to the level of play, ESPECIALLY at QB. Also, remember that Tangini originally labeled Clemens as a 'project pick' for a reason. Even they knew that he probably wouldn't be ready to start his first game or even first few seasons.

Having said all that, I DO hope that Clemens does mature and adjust in the NFL and does earn himself a spot as a starting QB for the Jets. He is smart, hardworking, and has a good arm (better then Pennington's) so WHEN he matures, he will be a very good QB.

[PeterNorth09]

O'RLY? I've been saying that for about a year and you've been killing me for it!

No I've been killing you because of you're blind hatred of Chad Pennington and the fact that it has led you to think Kellen Clemens is going to be this amazing player just because he is potentially the guy who could replace him. Forget about all the bigger, stronger and more skilled QB's in the draft the past two years we've passed up because of once upon a time Ron Jaworski and Merril Hoge though Kellen Clemens was better than Matt Leinart and Vince Young.

[PeterNorth09]

I'm sorry. You're way off about the QB situation. For one, what we need to do is PLAY THE BEST PLAYER. The goal is to win games this year, every year, the only way its possible to do that is to PLAY THE BEST PLAYER. Second, no we don't need to find out about Clemens RIGHT NOW. If he's not ready yet, doesn't mean that he'll never be ready, it just means that he's not ready yet. If he is ready now and beats out Pennington in camp, he should start and we'll see how he responds. But the NFL is league where sometimes it takes players a few years to get orientated with the systems and adjusted to the level of play, ESPECIALLY at QB. Also, remember that Tangini originally labeled Clemens as a 'project pick' for a reason. Even they knew that he probably wouldn't be ready to start his first game or even first few seasons.

Having said all that, I DO hope that Clemens does mature and adjust in the NFL and does earn himself a spot as a starting QB for the Jets. He is smart, hardworking, and has a good arm (better then Pennington's) so WHEN he matures, he will be a very good QB.

No, you're wrong. What the Jets need to do is try to win the Super Bowl. not win 9-10 games. I agree Pennington is our best QB and gives us the best chance to win, but he cannot make up for the other deficiencies with this team. Pennington is a game-manager, granted he is a good one but he would fit in better with a team like the Bears, Ravens or Chargers. Our defense and running game are both currently pretty average.

Chad Pennington is not the type of quarterback that can take over a game. Never was, never will be. I love the guy but that is the truth.

As for Clemens, we need to find out about him now instead of three years from now. We've passed up enough good QB's already because of Kellen. Leinart, Cutler, Quinn. We could have even signed David Carr on the cheap. Why should the Jets continue to pass up on good young quarterbacks for the next 3-4 years just so this midget Jay Fiedler wannabe could possibly learn the position half a decade from now?

I don't want to be hearing the same old tired "Pennington sucks, Kellen is the next great under 6-foot NFL quarterback" crap in 2011. Clemens has had a year to watch from the sidelines and study Brian Schottenheimer's playbook. If Kellen sucks now he will probably suck for the rest of his career. We need to find out now.

[Barton]

No I've been killing you because of you're blind hatred of Chad Pennington and the fact that it has led you to think Kellen Clemens is going to be this amazing player just because he is potentially the guy who could replace him. Forget about all the bigger, stronger and more skilled QB's in the draft the past two years we've passed up because of once upon a time Ron Jaworski and Merril Hoge though Kellen Clemens was better than Matt Leinart and Vince Young.

Once again peternorth gets his facts wrong.

I have NOT ONCE said Clemens is a sure thing. I never said he is going to be an amazing QB. All I said is, Kellen needs to start because Chad isnt good enough, and Kellen can potentially (being the key word) be considerably better.

And you're talking to a guy who very much wanted Jay Cutler back in 05'. Trust me, I'm not a huge Clemens guy but I recognize that he does have legit skills and talent that can make him a good NFL starting QB who can most imporantly make all the throws.

Now, do I hate Chad? No, I dont hate the man. But I think he's an awful QB and I'm sick and tired of his act.

[PeterNorth09]

Once again peternorth gets his facts wrong.

I have NOT ONCE said Clemens is a sure thing.

Really?

Clemens on 1 foot can throw a 20 yard out with more zip than Chad Pennington. Saying we should trade the guy, esp for a QB like Russell who is not a finished product, is kinda silly. Clemens has yet to even play, and judging by these scouting reports, the opinions of alot of scouts and coaches, he seems to have it all.

I cant wait to see this guy start for us and become a force.

[#27TheDominator]

Why the hell does the guy have to start to find out if he "has what it takes"? You genius internet GMs out there might need to see him play to know for sure, but you can't tell me the coaches, FO and players absolutely have to see him during regular season games to be able to tell if he sucks.

[Sperm Edwards]

I'm sorry. You're way off about the QB situation. For one, what we need to do is PLAY THE BEST PLAYER. The goal is to win games this year, every year, the only way its possible to do that is to PLAY THE BEST PLAYER. Second, no we don't need to find out about Clemens RIGHT NOW. If he's not ready yet, doesn't mean that he'll never be ready, it just means that he's not ready yet. If he is ready now and beats out Pennington in camp, he should start and we'll see how he responds. But the NFL is league where sometimes it takes players a few years to get orientated with the systems and adjusted to the level of play, ESPECIALLY at QB. Also, remember that Tangini originally labeled Clemens as a 'project pick' for a reason. Even they knew that he probably wouldn't be ready to start his first game or even first few seasons.

Having said all that, I DO hope that Clemens does mature and adjust in the NFL and does earn himself a spot as a starting QB for the Jets. He is smart, hardworking, and has a good arm (better then Pennington's) so WHEN he matures, he will be a very good QB.

I don't remember reading this anywhere. Do you have a link?

If it's true, then it was a blunder pick barely above the Schlegel level. 2006 was an unusual draft in terms of talent base. You don't Spend a 2nd and a 6th on a project in a draft like that.

[Barton]

Really?

Not sure why that was brought up. I never said in that post that he is a sure thing, he is NOT. Not even close. I just HOPE he becomes a force, I didnt say it specifically in that post but I have made it beyond clear on my views that Clemens CAN be better than Chad, but is not a sure thing to be better than Chad. The bottom line is, we need to take a risk on greatness. We cant live with mediocrity forever - and thats what Chad is, mediocrity. Its simple - we need better QB play. Clemens has the potential.

And it would be extremely stupid to if we traded up for Russell (who is NOT a finished product at all) when we traded up for a QB in last years draft who has to even start a game. Dont you agree, even though Russell is a better prospect? Its basic principal.

Clemens does have it all. Smarts, athleticism, arm strength, mobility. His height is certainly not ideal, and at times it will be a hinderance with defenders in his face but NFL history has shown you can have 6'1 QBs (Favre, Montana) or even shorter (Brees) and still be excellent and even great.

If Clemens busts it wont be because he is too short. It will be because he just isnt any good at reading defenses fast enough at the NFL level, which is why I agree with your statement:

PeterNorth

Clemens has had a year to watch from the sidelines and study Brian Schottenheimer's playbook. If Kellen sucks now he will probably suck for the rest of his career. We need to find out now.

We have had the same exact view on the subject all along, PN. I agree with this post of yours 110%.

[gangreenman]

No, you're wrong. What the Jets need to do is try to win the Super Bowl. not win 9-10 games. I agree Pennington is our best QB and gives us the best chance to win, but he cannot make up for the other deficiencies with this team. Pennington is a game-manager, granted he is a good one but he would fit in better with a team like the Bears, Ravens or Chargers. Our defense and running game are both currently pretty average.

Chad Pennington is not the type of quarterback that can take over a game. Never was, never will be. I love the guy but that is the truth.

As for Clemens, we need to find out about him now instead of three years from now. We've passed up enough good QB's already because of Kellen. Leinart, Cutler, Quinn. We could have even signed David Carr on the cheap. Why should the Jets continue to pass up on good young quarterbacks for the next 3-4 years just so this midget Jay Fiedler wannabe could possibly learn the position half a decade from now?

I don't want to be hearing the same old tired "Pennington sucks, Kellen is the next great under 6-foot NFL quarterback" crap in 2011. Clemens has had a year to watch from the sidelines and study Brian Schottenheimer's playbook. If Kellen sucks now he will probably suck for the rest of his career. We need to find out now.

I'm sorry, this logic is very confused. If Pennington gives us the best chance to win, how do you expect Clemens to take us to the Super Bowl?

Once again, if Clemens isn't ready yet, doesn't mean he'll never be ready. Therefore, putting him in before he's ready won't be a good way to judge his potential and what he can do to help our team down the road. Hopefully he will be ready before 2011, but if he's not ready, forcing him into action (especially if we have a better option at QB) would be a lose-lose.

[124]

Because you do not win championships with mediocre Quarterbacks unless you have an excellent team around them and the Jets do not have that and would take years to build one. Chad Pennington is 31 so by the time an excellent team was surrounded around him, and there is no way in hell you can tell if we could build one, he'd be what? Mid or late 30's?

You have to always strive for better. Kellen Clemens COULD be better. Will he be? Who knows. But as PeterNorth has said, we've passed up on a handfull of QB's to go with Kellen in Leinart, Cutler, Quinn and Carr.

Chad Pennington will take you to 9-7 and 10-6 seasons sprinkled in with a few playoff wins here and there but he is not the type of Quarterback who is going to take the team on his shoulders, lead you to a 12-4 record, win the AFC East outright and bring you to the Super Bowl, which is what I hope all Jets fans want to see the Jets in and win, one day again.

[Maxman]

Because you do not win championships with mediocre Quarterbacks unless you have an excellent team around them and the Jets do not have that and would take years to build one. Chad Pennington is 31 so by the time an excellent team was surrounded around him, and there is no way in hell you can tell if we could build one, he'd be what? Mid or late 30's?

You have to always strive for better. Kellen Clemens COULD be better. Will he be? Who knows. But as PeterNorth has said, we've passed up on a handfull of QB's to go with Kellen in Leinart, Cutler, Quinn and Carr.

Chad Pennington will take you to 9-7 and 10-6 seasons sprinkled in with a few playoff wins here and there but he is not the type of Quarterback who is going to take the team on his shoulders, lead you to a 12-4 record, win the AFC East outright and bring you to the Super Bowl, which is what I hope all Jets fans want to see the Jets in and win, one day again.

Quoted for historical purposes.

[Barton]

Quoted for historical purposes.

Max

Herm Edwards will win a superbowl as the Jets Head Coach.

Quoted for historical purposes.

[Maxman]

Quoted for historical purposes.

He will win it in his 2nd tour of duty here. Watch and learn.

[PeterNorth09]

I'm sorry, this logic is very confused. If Pennington gives us the best chance to win, how do you expect Clemens to take us to the Super Bowl?

Once again, if Clemens isn't ready yet, doesn't mean he'll never be ready. Therefore, putting him in before he's ready won't be a good way to judge his potential and what he can do to help our team down the road. Hopefully he will be ready before 2011, but if he's not ready, forcing him into action (especially if we have a better option at QB) would be a lose-lose.

I don't ever expect Clemens to take us to the Super Bowl. I think Clemens was a wasted pick in a draft that was loaded with talent at almost every position. However, we need to find out for sure whether this guy can play now, not 2-3 years from now when Chad is officially done. That's my point.

If Clemens isn't ready now what makes you so sure he'll be ready 2-3 years from now? He's had a year to watch from the sidelines and learn Schotty's playbook. Clemens should at least be able to show some promise. If the guy plays like a dud this year most likely he's going to stay that way.

You're right that Chad is short-term the better option at QB. Chad is the best QB on the Jets right now. However we'll eventually have to move on and I don't want to pass up on another 5-6 good young QB's because one day Kellen might magically transform from a guy who can't beat out the likes Pat Ramsey and Marques Toiletbowsopo into a stellar QB.

[Barton]

I don't ever expect Clemens to take us to the Super Bowl. I think Clemens was a wasted pick in a draft that was loaded with talent at almost every position. However, we need to find out for sure whether this guy can play now, not 2-3 years from now when Chad is officially done. That's my point.

If Clemens isn't ready now what makes you so sure he'll be ready 2-3 years from now? He's had a year to watch from the sidelines and learn Schotty's playbook. Clemens should at least be able to show some promise. If the guy plays like a dud this year most likely he's going to stay that way.

You're right that Chad is short-term the better option at QB. Chad is the best QB on the Jets right now. However we'll eventually have to move on and I don't want to pass up on another 5-6 good young QB's because one day Kellen might magically transform from a guy who can't beat out the likes Pat Ramsey and Marques Toiletbowsopo into a stellar QB.

This is what will happen, PN.

Jets start Pennington week 1 thru week 16, Jets are 8-7 with an outside (and extremely tiny chance at making the playoffs) if they win their week 17 game and all the tiebreakers with 5 other teams on the bubble all having to lose for the Jets to make the playoffs. So of course Mangini sticks with Chad hoping they can sqeak out a win in the final game of the season vs the Chiefs and backdoor their way into the playoffs.......

Jets lose to the Chiefs, finish 8-8. Then, come draft time they pass on the likes of Chad Henne and Erik Ainge. Then, Clemens takes over in 2008 and has his struggles while Cutler takes the broncos to the AFC championship game. And the Jets are fully not knowing WTF Kellen is heading in the 2009 season. Its Brilliant.

Its the Jet way, baby.

[gangreenman]

I don't ever expect Clemens to take us to the Super Bowl. I think Clemens was a wasted pick in a draft that was loaded with talent at almost every position. However, we need to find out for sure whether this guy can play now, not 2-3 years from now when Chad is officially done. That's my point.

If Clemens isn't ready now what makes you so sure he'll be ready 2-3 years from now? He's had a year to watch from the sidelines and learn Schotty's playbook. Clemens should at least be able to show some promise. If the guy plays like a dud this year most likely he's going to stay that way.

You're right that Chad is short-term the better option at QB. Chad is the best QB on the Jets right now. However we'll eventually have to move on and I don't want to pass up on another 5-6 good young QB's because one day Kellen might magically transform from a guy who can't beat out the likes Pat Ramsey and Marques Toiletbowsopo into a stellar QB.

Oh please, you know that Tangini for one, loves competition and two, will not hesitate to sign and/or draft anyone who fits their requirements and can be a help to the team. When they drafted Clemens, they obviously felt he was the best QB left and wanted to make sure they got him by moving up to get him. Even so, Tangini still admitted that Clemens was the 'project' of their draft. They drafted him as a prospect, a hard worker with a good arm and a guy who can move in the pocket. However, they even knew that he wouldn't be ready right away. In fact, if you've read any of his interviews, you would see that he even admitted it. I think Clemens has matured since this time last year and now he feels more settled in. It'll be interesting to see if he can retain the backup spot and/or even challenge Pennington for the starting job. If he does prove as legit competition for Pennington, I will be very excited considering that we have the QB spot covered for the next 5-7 years.

Anyway, in order to win games, which, by the way, you need to do in order to make or win a super bowl, you have to play the best player and the player that gives your team the best chance to succeed. If Pennington is that player, he should start. If Clemens is that player, he should start. Hell, if Tuiasosopo is that player, he should start.

[serphnx]

Oh please, you know that Tangini for one, loves competition and two, will not hesitate to sign and/or draft anyone who fits their requirements and can be a help to the team.

Outside of Colonel Chicken out in KC, that is the philosophy of ****ing every team in the league. The difference is talent evaluation. Tangini ****ed up on the Clemens pick, plain and simple. They also ****ed up with Schlegel. They are not gods, they make mistakes. BB made mistakes too, the difference is BB made enough right picks that the Pats could win SBs, and he knew to get rid of and replace mistakes quickly enough that they don't fester and ruin the team.