Where are the athletes?

[Thai Jet]

Ask a non-homer Bears fan, like the one that posts here that had been warning people in vain about Thomas Jones all offseason.

The Bears trade a 29-year old RB with two career 1,000 yard seasons and zero Pro Bowl appearances for a second rounder and it's a STEAL?

.

At the time of the Thomas Jones trade almost everyone of the national sports writers etc. thought the deal was a steal for the Jets. We filled a giant need while still maintaining a draft choice. I don't care who the Jets RB is Jones, Barlow, or LT you can't run where there's no holes.

[Jetman_67]

I was at the Seahawks vs Rams yesterday. I didnt see any athletes better than the ones on the Jets Roster. Perhaps the players on the Seahawks were executinig better some of the time. I saw an offense that reminds me alot of the Jets. I saw a kicker way more reliable than Nugent. (Josh brown was making 40+ yard kicks like they are routine) with Nugent the Jets always leave points on the field.

I did see a QB who is able to make something out of nothing at times which is something Chad just cant do.

I saw a better Head Coach on the Sidelinse than the Jets have. (Mostly due to more experience)

[serphnx]

We are the only "rebuilding" team in the league that starts a 29 year old RB and what is it, 33 year old QB that has had 5 injury ravaged seasons and 2 major surgeries to his throwing arm.

As I've said before, I don't have a problem with rebuilding but you actually have to be doing it. Rebuilding teams do not trade away their entire draft for 2 players and start old underachieving veterans. Why are DRob and Ellis still playing? Leftwich is arguably the same caliber player as Chad but the Jags just cut him because he wasn't in their future plans. That's how you avoid the QB controversy. BTW, since we're not benching Chad because of the locker room problems, why didn't Del Rio lose his over CUTTING leftwich? You would think a young HC that cuts a starting QB would be eaten alive but somehow that does not seem to be happening.

[NJ]

I was at the Seahawks vs Rams yesterday.

I did see a QB who is able to make something out of nothing at times which is something Chad just cant do.

You're right there Gameface - Chad leaves it up to his receivers to make something out of nothing and a lot of times they do. Especially when the other teams D-back's become our receivers.

[Matt39]

Name a running back that doesnt need a good oline for them to succeed?

Oh wait, they dont exist.

Jones was stuck in Arizona the early part of his career, he played well in CHicago and was a big part of their Super Bowl run.

No, he's not LT or close to some of the elite backs in the league, but he sure as hell aint Reuben Droughns. Are you on drugs?

We didnt give up a 2nd round pick either, we swapped them.

And one Bears fan who doesnt think Jones was very good doesnt make up for everyone else saying the Jets got a prettty good player for merely switiching 2nd round picks.

He's a good player when he's given a chance. Im sure he was thrilled when our douchebag of a HC decided to part ways with our starting OG for no reaon.

[Sperm Edwards]

Name a running back that doesnt need a good oline for them to succeed?

Oh wait, they dont exist.

Jones was stuck in Arizona the early part of his career, he played well in CHicago and was a big part of their Super Bowl run.

No, he's not LT or close to some of the elite backs in the league, but he sure as hell aint Reuben Droughns. Are you on drugs?

We didnt give up a 2nd round pick either, we swapped them.

And one Bears fan who doesnt think Jones was very good doesnt make up for everyone else saying the Jets got a prettty good player for merely switiching 2nd round picks.

He's a good player when he's given a chance. Im sure he was thrilled when our douchebag of a HC decided to part ways with our starting OG for no reaon.

We did not get him for merely switching 2nd rounders. Dropping down 10-12 places is swapping 2nd rounders. We moved from barely-out-of-round-one to barely-still-in-round-two. The fact that they were both in round two is incidental. What happened was we dropped one round.

And it STILL wasn't "merely" dropping down a round. He also cost us yet ANOTHER player by tying up $5M/year on our salary cap.

We gave up PLENTY to secure the services of Thomas Jones.

Dropping a round on day-one AND $5M/year for a not-special RB between the ages of 29-32. While we're still rebuilding and have a crappy run-blocking line. That's just moronic. I could see maybe if we were a real contender and our starting HB was just lost for the season.

I'm trying really hard to think of one outstanding thing this FO or coaching staff has done in the year 2007.

[Matt39]

We did not get him for merely switching 2nd rounders. Dropping down 10-12 places is swapping 2nd rounders. We moved from barely-out-of-round-one to barely-still-in-round-two. The fact that they were both in round two is incidental. What happened was we dropped one round.

And it STILL wasn't "merely" dropping down a round. He also cost us yet ANOTHER player by tying up $5M/year on our salary cap.

We gave up PLENTY to secure the services of Thomas Jones.

Dropping a round on day-one AND $5M/year for a not-special RB between the ages of 29-32. While we're still rebuilding and have a crappy run-blocking line. That's just moronic. I could see maybe if we were a real contender and our starting HB was just lost for the season.

I'm trying really hard to think of one outstanding thing this FO or coaching staff has done in the year 2007.

I think the staff was under the impression(obviously wrong) that we would be a winning team this year.

Thomas Jones ia a good player, for him to be getting a boat load of criticism around here isnt fair. He's the least of our problems.

When he's gotten a chance, he's looked pretty decent too. Better than anything we had going last year.

[Jetfan13]

Dumbass. We have the savior Jonathan Vilma. He's a stud in one particular scheme, if there is a solid NT in front of him, another DT in front of him, and two pro-bowl DE's in front of him.

Hopefully Mangini feels he has enough of his base of "character" guys and gets some playmakers to stop making them look as crappy as they are.

not making excuses but if you heard or read Mangini's presser, Vilma is battling some injuries that of course he won't disclose

[Sperm Edwards]

I think the staff was under the impression(obviously wrong) that we would be a winning team this year.

Thomas Jones ia a good player, for him to be getting a boat load of criticism around here isnt fair. He's the least of our problems.

When he's gotten a chance, he's looked pretty decent too. Better than anything we had going last year.

He's clearly an upgrade over Kevan Barlow.

But is he a drop-a-round-on-day-one AND lock-us-into-a-$20M-contract better? I don't think so.

Frankly, it looks exactly like when Hermway picked up McCareins. Somewhat highly thought of. Had a good game against us the prior season. We grossly overpay in terms of both picks AND money.

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

[Matt39]

He's clearly an upgrade over Kevan Barlow.

But is he a drop-a-round-on-day-one AND lock-us-into-a-$20M-contract better? I don't think so.

Frankly, it looks exactly like when Hermway picked up McCareins. Somewhat highly thought of. Had a good game against us the prior season. We grossly overpay in terms of both picks AND money.

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

Its not Jones fault we suck. If Jones is on our team last year, we're calling him a great aquisition.

The fact that our team has fallen apart is why were overanalyzing Jones' contract. He's a good player.

Hell, is that softie out in Seattle worth his contract? Alexander has looked awful this year- and a lot has to do with line falling apart. A backs only as good as his line for the most part. Mangini dropping Kendall was just retarded. Brandon Moore might be the worst run blocker in the league, too. Another guy Mangini decides to lock up.

[Sperm Edwards]

Its not Jones fault we suck. If Jones is on our team last year, we're calling him a great aquisition.

The fact that our team has fallen apart is why were overanalyzing Jones' contract. He's a good player.

Hell, is that softie out in Seattle worth his contract? Alexander has looked awful this year- and a lot has to do with line falling apart. A backs only as good as his line for the most part. Mangini dropping Kendall was just retarded. Brandon Moore might be the worst run blocker in the league, too. Another guy Mangini decides to lock up.

This is my point. If a RB is only as good as his OL, then what's the point of giving up so much for one like Jones? I would've rather kept the pick, kept the money, and rolled with someone who complements Leon better like Wynn. Bigger, more powerful, and faster than Jones. Wayyy more upside. Gets paid the league minimum with maybe a $25,000 signing bonus. And I don't accept that if each had stellar blocking that only Jones would kick ass.

It's not even like he's a decent receiver either.

Totally one-dimensional HB. One cut & if there's room he gets a few yards. Not a weakling, but hardly a power-runner. Not really fast. And can't catch. Oh - and he's entering what are traditionally decline-years for a HB.

So what is it that he brings to the table? Stutter-stepping when we need one yard for a first down? Punching younger players at his position who make more money than he does? A now bloated salary that makes cutting him, trading him, or drafting another day-one RB an impractical luxury?

It was as dumb as giving Martin a $46M extension at age 29.

[Matt39]

This is my point. If a RB is only as good as his OL, then what's the point of giving up so much for one like Jones? I would've rather kept the pick, kept the money, and rolled with someone who complements Leon better like Wynn. Bigger, more powerful, and faster than Jones. Wayyy more upside. Gets paid the league minimum with maybe a $25,000 signing bonus. And I don't accept that if each had stellar blocking that only Jones would kick ass.

It's not even like he's a decent receiver either.

Totally one-dimensional HB. One cut & if there's room he gets a few yards. Not a weakling, but hardly a power-runner. Not really fast. And can't catch. Oh - and he's entering what are traditionally decline-years for a HB.

So what is it that he brings to the table? Stutter-stepping when we need one yard for a first down? Punching younger players at his position who make more money than he does? A now bloated salary that makes cutting him, trading him, or drafting another day-one RB an impractical luxury?

It was as dumb as giving Martin a $46M extension at age 29.

Jones has a better burst than you're giving him credit for.

I mean, yeah in hindsight we could have drafted Wynn but he's not a long term answer either.

And come on, now were bringing up the Benson incident. Benson SUCKS and is a pssy, this has been clearly noted by most people who know the guy.

You think Bears fans wouldnt take TJ back now? I bet they would.

[Sperm Edwards]

Jones has a better burst than you're giving him credit for.

I mean, yeah in hindsight we could have drafted Wynn but he's not a long term answer either.

And come on, now were bringing up the Benson incident. Benson SUCKS and is a pssy, this has been clearly noted by most people who know the guy.

You think Bears fans wouldnt take TJ back now? I bet they would.

Hardly the point. The Bears already gave him $18M up front. Clearly, he wasn't going anywhere until Jones' career was on its downside. Sure, he was a ****y-without-merit jerkoff. But Jones made it worse. To the point where the two of them couldn't be on the team together & from a cap standpoint there was no choice but to dump Jones.

Wynn I still can't understand being thought of so lowly. Big, strong, fast, and had a successful college career (even if not stellar) playing for a real college team. I would have loved him in the 4TH round before we picked up Jones (not even imagining he was going to drop to round 7).

And since Jones is now 29, he's not a long-term answer either.

Jones does have some burst. I never suggested that he's Kevan Barlow II. Just that he wasn't worth anywhere close to what we gave up to acquire him. This acquisition prevented 1-2 other players who might actually help instead of this one who only helps us if his OL makes it easy for him.

[Matt39]

Hardly the point. The Bears already gave him $18M up front. Clearly, he wasn't going anywhere until Jones' career was on its downside. Sure, he was a ****y-without-merit jerkoff. But Jones made it worse. To the point where the two of them couldn't be on the team together & from a cap standpoint there was no choice but to dump Jones.

Wynn I still can't understand being thought of so lowly. Big, strong, fast, and had a successful college career (even if not stellar) playing for a real college team. I would have loved him in the 4TH round before we picked up Jones (not even imagining he was going to drop to round 7).

And since Jones is now 29, he's not a long-term answer either.

Jones does have some burst. I never suggested that he's Kevan Barlow II. Just that he wasn't worth anywhere close to what we gave up to acquire him. This acquisition prevented 1-2 other players who might actually help instead of this one who only helps us if his OL makes it easy for him.

Totally agree with you the fact we shouldnt have given up what we did while letting our line get worse. We should have just gone with Leon and some other cheaper reatread(other than Barlow, he's not even an NFL player imo)

But Thomas Jones is a good player. He shouldnt be receiving the brunt of the criticism for this teams shortcomings.

He's not an elite back, but is a better option than a lot of guys out there.

[Sperm Edwards]

Totally agree with you the fact we shouldnt have given up what we did while letting our line get worse. We should have just gone with Leon and some other cheaper reatread(other than Barlow, he's not even an NFL player imo)

But Thomas Jones is a good player. He shouldnt be receiving the brunt of the criticism for this teams shortcomings.

He's not an elite back, but is a better option than a lot of guys out there.

This is exactly what I said. So why are you arguing with me? Did you take Thor pills this morning?

I don't see why we couldn't have given Chris Brown a 1-year deal & were in such a rush to lock up an almost-30-year-old HB for so much money and a damn good draft pick at #37. Justin Blalock went #39 and Tony Ugoh went #42.

[Scott Dierking]

And since Jones is now 29, he's not a long-term answer either.

.

Yes but he is a young 29. Don't you listen? He is a 29 in Galapagos Island turtle years.

Man, pay attention.

[Matt39]

This is exactly what I said. So why are you arguing with me? Did you take Thor pills this morning?

I don't see why we couldn't have given Chris Brown a 1-year deal & were in such a rush to lock up an almost-30-year-old HB for so much money and a damn good draft pick at #37. Justin Blalock went #39 and Tony Ugoh went #42.

I would have rather had Leon and no one else than Chris Brown.

And Jones' contract isnt ridiculous. His contract isnt holding the team hostage by any means.

[Sperm Edwards]

I would have rather had Leon and no one else than Chris Brown.

And Jones' contract isnt ridiculous. His contract isnt holding the team hostage by any means.

Again, it was the combination of his contract AND the pick given up. It was just too much.

Yes but he is a young 29. Don't you listen? He is a 29 in Galupogos Island turtle years.

Man, pay attention.

My bad. This franchise is moving so fast in the right direction it's hard to keep up sometimes.

[#27TheDominator]

This is my point. If a RB is only as good as his OL, then what's the point of giving up so much for one like Jones? I would've rather kept the pick, kept the money, and rolled with someone who complements Leon better like Wynn. Bigger, more powerful, and faster than Jones. Wayyy more upside. Gets paid the league minimum with maybe a $25,000 signing bonus. And I don't accept that if each had stellar blocking that only Jones would kick ass.

It's not even like he's a decent receiver either.

Totally one-dimensional HB. One cut & if there's room he gets a few yards. Not a weakling, but hardly a power-runner. Not really fast. And can't catch. Oh - and he's entering what are traditionally decline-years for a HB.

So what is it that he brings to the table? Stutter-stepping when we need one yard for a first down? Punching younger players at his position who make more money than he does? A now bloated salary that makes cutting him, trading him, or drafting another day-one RB an impractical luxury?

It was as dumb as giving Martin a $46M extension at age 29.

I think the problem was that they didn't know what they had. There was probably some thought that the o-line wasn't quite that bad and they were made to look bad by the crappy backs. Houston and Barlow were no great shakes, even behind a good line both would probably have been subpar. Leon showed some flashes last year. That might have given them the false impression that the line would be fine with a real back. Leon is a hit or miss runner. A (very) poor man's Barry Sanders. Plus 8 or minus 4. Having Jones takes away all doubt. This line blows.

[JetCane]

I think the problem was that they didn't know what they had. There was probably some thought that the o-line wasn't quite that bad and they were made to look bad by the crappy backs. Houston and Barlow were no great shakes, even behind a good line both would probably have been subpar. Leon showed some flashes last year. That might have given them the false impression that the line would be fine with a real back. Leon is a hit or miss runner. A (very) poor man's Barry Sanders. Plus 8 or minus 4. Having Jones takes away all doubt. This line blows.

My first reaction to you saying "(T)here was probably some thought that the o-line wasn't quite that bad..." was getdafvckoutahere! No way!

But then i thought about it, and how the CS has misjudged the talent out there and here, traded their starting LG with no backup plan, and maybe they really were delusional about the OL, which is truly sad.

As far as TJ goes, i think he's run pretty well behind this crappy line, and is somewhere around 11th in the league in rushing. There is the separate issue of giving up too much for him, but I agree with the idea that they needed a back to replace the rrbc they had last year after Martin retired.

But they have failed to strengthen either the OL and DL, and are losing the trench wars every game due to their own lack of foresight/stupidity.

[#27TheDominator]

My first reaction to you saying "(T)here was probably some thought that the o-line wasn't quite that bad..." was getdafvckoutahere! No way!

But then i thought about it, and how the CS has misjudged the talent out there and here, traded their starting LG with no backup plan, and maybe they really were delusional about the OL, which is truly sad.

As far as TJ goes, i think he's run pretty well behind this crappy line, and is somewhere around 11th in the league in rushing. There is the separate issue of giving up too much for him, but I agree with the idea that they needed a back to replace the rrbc they had last year after Martin retired.

But they have failed to strengthen either the OL and DL, and are losing the trench wars every game due to their own lack of foresight/stupidity.

Just think about the venom on the board for Barlow. Very little of that was reserved for Moore, Kendall or Clement. The truly sad thing is that they did significantly upgrade the d line with K. Coleman over Kimo and improved depth and they still suck.

[JetCane]

Just think about the venom on the board for Barlow. Very little of that was reserved for Moore, Kendall or Clement. The truly sad thing is that they did significantly upgrade the d line with K. Coleman over Kimo and improved depth and they still suck.

Dolly Parton would have been an upgrade over kimo, but you're right- they did improve that spot. They still dont have a NT, and Ellis has been...I dont know, what has he been?

The same guys are on the crappy OL as last year except for Clarke, who imo has been really bad. And Brick gave up a crucial 4th quarter sack vs the bengals on the play before the pick six.

[Scott Dierking]

Dolly Parton would have been an upgrade over kimo,

In her playing days, she had a great center of gravity, and her hips swivelled much better than Anthony Schlegels.

[Bugg]

It's dumbass to keep picking on the same guy when the entire defense hasnt stepped up. Who has stepped up out of the eleven guys playing defense?

I think revis has had a decent rookie season, ans is a good ballplayer, but some of you who keep blaming the entire failure of the defense on one guy who at least has made his share of tackles is just anal.

Vilma pisses many of us off because they play a lot of 4-man fronts, and his play is no better. He gets blown away by guards and backs. He cannot slide off blocks. D-rob hasn't met expectations, but even if he did, Vilma isn't going to go unblocked. And if he can only be effective if unblocked, he's not much of a football player. In fact, vs. the Bills, he was unblocked and still didn't make the play. He's simply not big or strong enough. And being A 1ST ROUND DRAFT PICK, A HURRICANE and FEATURED IS SOUP ADS doesn't mean anyhting on the field.

If you're gonaa trade up 2 high picks for Revis, based on this small sample thus far, I don't see how it was justified. But I'm willing to see that it may be.

[madmike1]

I should change this...where are the impact pro bowl like players?

We should've signed adalius thomas. This FO's free agency record is pathetic.

[JetCane]

Vilma pisses many of us off because they play a lot of 4-man fronts, and his play is no better. He gets blown away by guards and backs. He cannot slide off blocks. D-rob hasn't met expectations, but even if he did, Vilma isn't going to go unblocked. And if he can only be effective if unblocked, he's not much of a football player. In fact, vs. the Bills, he was unblocked and still didn't make the play. He's simply not big or strong enough. And being A 1ST ROUND DRAFT PICK, A HURRICANE and FEATURED IS SOUP ADS doesn't mean anyhting on the field.

Your posts on this issue have become ponderous.

[Bugg]

Your posts on this issue have become ponderous.

Ponderous, EFFIN' PONDEROUS! As Kasey Kassem might say.

What's also Ponderous, EFFIN' PONDEROUS! is the idea that Vilma is a Pro Bowler. If you guys want to keep telling us he's a superstar rather a little man who gets pushed around all game, I cannot stop you. But you must be watching something other than Jets games.

As MadMike1 notes, the $10 million in cap room is a joke when they could've signed Adalius Thomas. Freaking criminally Ponderous, EFFIN' PONDEROUS!

[JetCane]

^

LOL

p0Y7yjxJVlc

[serphnx]

I wonder if we'll even be able to sign anyone good this year. Coming off 10-6 this team was on the rise and had a well-regarded coaching staff. We are now 1-6 and the CS look like total fools. What player would want to come here now? Especially with the Pats in the same division?

[Sperm Edwards]

I wonder if we'll even be able to sign anyone good this year. Coming off 10-6 this team was on the rise and had a well-regarded coaching staff. We are now 1-6 and the CS look like total fools. What player would want to come here now? Especially with the Pats in the same division?

I didn't really think of this until now. I mean if we outbid a better team, then a player will sign. But I think it would have been easier to sign players for the "going rate" after a 6-game improvement instead of a 6-game slide. Particularly since his camps are famously rigorous.

[JetsMan57]

Ponderous, EFFIN' PONDEROUS! As Kasey Kassem might say.

What's also Ponderous, EFFIN' PONDEROUS! is the idea that Vilma is a Pro Bowler. If you guys want to keep telling us he's a superstar rather a little man who gets pushed around all game, I cannot stop you. But you must be watching something other than Jets games.

As MadMike1 notes, the $10 million in cap room is a joke when they could've signed Adalius Thomas. Freaking criminally Ponderous, EFFIN' PONDEROUS!

The problem with Vilma is he relies on having two studs in front of him at the DT position in order to flourish. When he does he is an extremely effective middle linebacker. You cant deny that he had a spectacular rookie season when DROB and Fergie were playing awesome.

If he doesnt have DTs in front of him (like we havent had since 2005) to keep him clean he is a dead duck

[Barton]

They are gonna spend money this offseason, I believe. I think they fill a few holes with solid players in free agency.

Just a hunch.

[JetCane]

The problem with Vilma is he relies on having two studs in front of him at the DT position in order to flourish. When he does he is an extremely effective middle linebacker. You cant deny that he had a spectacular rookie season when DROB and Fergie were playing awesome.

If he doesnt have DTs in front of him (like we havent had since 2005) to keep him clean he is a dead duck

The problem with mangini is that he hasnt gotten the right personnel to play the scheme he wants to play, and he hired a joke of a DC, too.

Belichek knew that in order for brady to succeed, he needed WRs, so he went and got them.

Mangini knew that for a 3-4 to succeed, and for Vilma to have any chance at excelling in the scheme, he needed a solid NT/DL playing in front of him.

<crickets>

[drago]

This is exactly what I said. So why are you arguing with me? Did you take Thor pills this morning?

I don't see why we couldn't have given Chris Brown a 1-year deal & were in such a rush to lock up an almost-30-year-old HB for so much money and a damn good draft pick at #37. Justin Blalock went #39 and Tony Ugoh went #42.

this is what absolutly kills me. If we had blalock we may still be 1 and 6, but we would also have 3 future studs or, pending on opinion, very good linemen on our hands.

ya think Atlanta would trade blalock for jones straight up?

we lost on this deal.

[#27TheDominator]

The problem with Vilma is he relies on having two studs in front of him at the DT position in order to flourish. When he does he is an extremely effective middle linebacker. You cant deny that he had a spectacular rookie season when DROB and Fergie were playing awesome.

If he doesnt have DTs in front of him (like we havent had since 2005) to keep him clean he is a dead duck

I deny spectacular. Vehemently. I do not deny "extremely effective". The only "spectacular" players since Gastineau/Klecko that we've had on D have been Hugh Douglas, Abraham (no, not Donnie) and maybe Glenn. Each was dumped in the purge during regime change for "not fitting the scheme". I'd put up with a level of crap and change schemes for spectacular, but not for decent or "extremely effective".