Some thoughts:

[RSJ]

It was not second and eight. It was third and maybe 2. We are talking about Jackson's TD in the second half, correct? Not any of the other myriad TDs.

It was 3rd and 5 with 5 minutes left. Not a good down and distance for an all out run blitz. Again Lowery was beaten all night and almost beaten badly earlier in the game by the same WR.

[RSJ]

Vinny also bounced from team to team with different systems. Favre has had one system since 1991, imaging driving automatic for more than fifteen years and suddenly being forced to take up stick, its going to take time.

I'll give Favre and the rest of this team till after the bye, they always seem to make their adjustments then (at least the past 2 yrs anyways) and with an easy schedule should be able to win more than a few games and continue to gel for crunch time.

If this team continues to struggle though then we can call for the sky to fall

I agree that Favre will take some time to learn the system. That's not what I'm saying. Vinny didn't know the system either in 98. The Jets coaching staff cut the field in half for him, made his reads simpler and ran routes to the strength of him and the players that surrounded him. There are ways around this that the coaching staff is not using. Sending him home everynight and forcefeeding him the playbook is not the answer.

[Scott Dierking]

It is times like these that we need Sooth to tell us how we are all being irrational, we have to put up a good front for the non-jet fans on the site, and how silly we all sound.

Max, can you do this for us?

[C-Mart28]

Favre has had to adjust to different offensive coaches and schemes before.

He just does not fit the Jet personnel.

I hate to say this, but the best thing that can happen to the Jets is Favre suffers a season ending injury.

it was my understanding that they pretty much had the same offensive scheme though, maybe slight changes here an there based on personel but nothing as drastic as what he's going through now.

I agree he probably isnt the best fit, but i think him playing can at the very least help out the three young QB's we have waiting in the wings, at the very least their learning for the future from one of the best to have played the game, instead of a noodle arm.

[flgreen]

It is times like these that we need Sooth to tell us how we are all being irrational, we have to put up a good front for the non-jet fans on the site, and how silly we all sound.

Max, can you do this for us?

Word has it that Max is leaving the site. He and Bren are going to start a Titans site.

We will all be getting PM's soon

[#27TheDominator]

It was 3rd and 5 with 5 minutes left. Not a good down and distance for an all out run blitz. Again Lowery was beaten all night and almost beaten badly earlier in the game by the same WR.

I'm thought it was less than five, but that's irrelevant. I thought everybody was calling for Sutton and Mangini's heads for "not having any balls" and "never sending anybody"? Now you want to crucify them for sending the kitchen sink? You (not you personally, RSJ) can't have it both ways.

[Maxman]

Hey this sounds an awful lot like a new JetNation.com column:

"Thoughts From Sperm Edwards"

http://www.jetnation.com/?p=1598

[Maxman]

It is times like these that we need Sooth to tell us how we are all being irrational, we have to put up a good front for the non-jet fans on the site, and how silly we all sound.

Max, can you do this for us?

You are being irrational. Please stop sounding silly and at least put up a good front for the non Jets fans on the site.

[Ghost]

We suck

That's pathetic.

[ZachEY]

Can anyone explain to me how we can have a good 1st and 2nd down defense, but then be completely ineffective on 3rd downs?

[Barton]

Can anyone explain to me how we can have a good 1st and 2nd down defense, but then be completely ineffective on 3rd downs?

Sutton and his conservative play calling.

[Ghost]

Sutton and his conservative play calling.

Honestly, I miss Donnie Henderson' D, especially with Vilma in the middle.

[flgreen]

Honestly, I miss Donnie Henderson' D, especially with Vilma in the middle.

I'm hoping that some how Ryan comes loose when this shake up in Oakland takes place.

I'm afraid he is going to be the next HC

[Scott Dierking]

You are being irrational. Please stop sounding silly and at least put up a good front for the non Jets fans on the site.

Thanks. I can finally exhale. Strangely, I feel like giving you $55.

[RSJ]

I'm thought it was less than five, but that's irrelevant. I thought everybody was calling for Sutton and Mangini's heads for "not having any balls" and "never sending anybody"? Now you want to crucify them for sending the kitchen sink? You (not you personally, RSJ) can't have it both ways.

I know what you are saying - but it was late in the game and Lowery was getting beaten all day. If it happened to Reveis it would be one thing - but no way would I leave Lowery alone again on anyone. It's just another example of the coaching staff not using common sense. It's just like people compain about going shotgun after compaining last week that the Jets ran it 3 times inside the 5. It's a totally different situation. 4th down from the 1 inch line is QB sneak behind Mangold all day long.

[PETROCK]

I completely disagree in regards to Coles. I don

[RSJ]

The pass went right through Coles hands AGAIN!

Coles is a #1 WR for Pennington and no other team in the league. I say trade him now.

We should have cut coles along with Pennington. Problem is these dumbasses guarenteed the money on the last 2 years of his deal so he would be too large of a cap hit.

[Bugg]

Sadly we've seen more than our share of scared, pussified play-not-to-lose moron HCs. Mangini now steps into that deep pile, or long line of such coaches, if you would.I knocked Edwards ofr it, I ahve to be consistent. He has run 3 games of conservative gameplans and not given Favre a chance. It worked for the one game in Miami(and barely!), but thinking beating the Pats or Bolts with a 17-point running-oriented attack is stupid arrogance. And unacceptable.

Also, the idea that it takes this long for Favre and the rest of the offense to get on the same page("Gell" as defined by a certain KC coach)is beyond disgraceful. These people are all pro football players. It's their job.They've been playing this game at one level or another collecttively for years. Have Favre and Schott go through the playbook, adopt 40-50 plays he's comfortable with and bring another 5-10 in every week. And practice them. spare us the "gell" excuse. Now, we can all see the Bolts had pulled in the horns a bit, but still there's some indications that it's the playcalling not the talent.

And if it's not that, if Favre wasn't brought in for football, but for marketing,by Johnson to be the cover for PSLs, nothing more, they sold their souls for a season of nothingness. If that's the case, I have no sympathy for any of these bastards.And it's time to root for someone else after 30+ years.

Thomas Jones and Vernon Gholston (see below)are lovely specimens if we are going to be participating in a remake of "Pumping Iron". They have no discernible football abilities. And you have to figure that either Jones is too slow to go off tackle or our tackles cannot get out in space and block. Either way,watching him running into the pile for little or no gain is now a joke.

"Establish the run" my a55. I thought Mangini got it, that the NFL is scoring early and running out the clock. Instead, he thinks conventionally, like tools like Edwards or Joe Theissmann think , that there's something really noble and important about running the ball. THAT'S CRAP. YOu have to throw the ball to get out in front, and then mix in the run. And he has Favre, which is too much for him to cede any authority. EFF THAT BS. I'm, not saying throw 45 50+ yard passes, but enough of the "Jones up the gut for no gain" idiocy. THROW THE BALL, EARLY AND OFTEN, ALL OVER THE FIELD. You're paying Favre $12 million, lets' see him earn it.

We have now seen 3 weeks running the failure of the defense to get off the field. they cannot make a big stop. They leave 6 or even 8 guys in coverage and get burned anyway, and generate zero pass rush. The Jets haven't made a pass rush a prioirty AGAIN, since about 1986. Gold star to who ever sold them on looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane, Vernon Freaking Gholston. I don't understand this. The way the Giants and every successful defensive unit goes is making QBs make bad decisions or sacking them. yet we watch game after game where the pass rush does nothing, the play breaks down and the opposing QB completes a 1st down pass to some guy who finds an opeing. The Jets didn't force a punt last night until late in the 3rd quarter. THAT TOTALLY SUCKS.And it's every week. Heck, teams are going to go to school on not wrroying about the pass rush,and wait out what ever fancy coverage that breaks down over too much time . Kurt Warner willw ait us out and kill us again.

Jenkins is the real deal. I hope he's healthy. Let me undestand-the Jets are paying Pouha $6 million to do what exactly? I wouldn't trust this bum to carry groceries. As with Jones and Gholston, who is handing out the money,and can we get some?

I am at wit's end with this sh1t team and franchise. We've watched worse teams, but no as dissappointing and disheartening so far.

[Matt39]

Sadly we've seen more than our share of scared, pussified play-not-to-lose moron HCs. Mangini now steps into that deep pile, or long line of such coaches, if you would.I knocked Edwards ofr it, I ahve to be consistent. He has run 3 games of conservative gameplans and not given Favre a chance. It worked for the one game in Miami(and barely!), but thinking beating the Pats or Bolts with a 17-point running-oriented attack is stupid arrogance. And unacceptable.

Also, the idea that it takes this long for Favre and the rest of the offense to get on the same page("Gell" as defined by a certain KC coach)is beyond disgraceful. These people are all pro football players. It's their job.They've been playing this game at one level or another collecttively for years. Have Favre and Schott go through the playbook, adopt 40-50 plays he's comfortable with and bring another 5-10 in every week. And practice them. spare us the "gell" excuse. Now, we can all see the Bolts had pulled in the horns a bit, but still there's some indications that it's the playcalling not the talent.

And if it's not that, if Favre wasn't brought in for football, but for marketing,by Johnson to be the cover for PSLs, nothing more, they sold their souls for a season of nothingness. If that's the case, I have no sympathy for any of these bastards.And it's time to root for someone else after 30+ years.

Thomas Jones and Vernon Gholston (see below)are lovely specimens if we are going to be participating in a remake of "Pumping Iron". They have no discernible football abilities. And you have to figure that either Jones is too slow to go off tackle or our tackles cannot get out in space and block. Either way,watching him running into the pile for little or no gain is now a joke.

"Establish the run" my a55. I thought Mangini got it, that the NFL is scoring early and running out the clock. Instead, he thinks conventionally, like tools like Edwards or Joe Theissmann think , that there's something really noble and important about running the ball. THAT'S CRAP. YOu have to throw the ball to get out in front, and then mix in the run. And he has Favre, which is too much for him to cede any authority. EFF THAT BS. I'm, not saying throw 45 50+ yard passes, but enough of the "Jones up the gut for no gain" idiocy. THROW THE BALL, EARLY AND OFTEN, ALL OVER THE FIELD. You're paying Favre $12 million, lets' see him earn it.

We have now seen 3 weeks running the failure of the defense to get off the field. they cannot make a big stop. They leave 6 or even 8 guys in coverage and get burned anyway, and generate zero pass rush. The Jets haven't made a pass rush a prioirty AGAIN, since about 1986. Gold star to who ever sold them on looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane, Vernon Freaking Gholston. I don't understand this. The way the Giants and every successful defensive unit goes is making QBs make bad decisions or sacking them. yet we watch game after game where the pass rush does nothing, the play breaks down and the opposing QB completes a 1st down pass to some guy who finds an opeing. The Jets didn't force a punt last night until late in the 3rd quarter. THAT TOTALLY SUCKS.And it's every week. Heck, teams are going to go to school on not wrroying about the pass rush,and wait out what ever fancy coverage that breaks down over too much time . Kurt Warner willw ait us out and kill us again.

Jenkins is the real deal. I hope he's healthy. Let me undestand-the Jets are paying Pouha $6 million to do what exactly? I wouldn't trust this bum to carry groceries. As with Jones and Gholston, who is handing out the money,and can we get some?

I am at wit's end with this sh1t team and franchise. We've watched worse teams, but no as dissappointing and disheartening so far.

Pretty much on point. The Jets (AGAIN) opened up the game in a two tight end set, with Jones and RIchardson in the backfield. Result? Punt

The Chargers didnt punt until late in the 3rd quarter as Bugg said.

[The Troll]

Isn't Westhoff gone?

All our coaches blow. Get it right, Sperm.

[Sperm Edwards]

I agree with everything you say and most of what you have here I've already posted about in other threads. I just don't buy into this whole "Favre needs to learn the offense more" stuff either. Vinny learned a new offense in less time in 98 and we had just as many new players on that team as we have on this one. I mean how hard can it be to call a slant? Obviously the coaching staff is allergic to the slant route.

Vinny was with the team for 3 months before he saw any regular season action. Favre was with the Jets for one, and only got the chance to really practice with Coles for maybe a week.

Isn't Westhoff gone?

All our coaches blow. Get it right, Sperm.

Then who was the guy wearing the Westhoff disguise on the sideline during the game?

[Jet Moses]

In 2007, the Giants started out 1-2 and all fans of Big Blue were talking about nothing past getting Bill Cowher to replace Tom Coughlin after the season. Two weeks later they almost - and should have - lost to the 4-12 Jets. Three weeks after that Eli Manning looked like he couldn't throw a football any better than the Brits watching the game in the stands, and I think 2-3 of his passes were closer to them than his own receivers.

And Giants fans were calling up Mike and the Mad dog suggesting that Lorenzen should start.

[Jet Moses]

Also, the idea that it takes this long for Favre and the rest of the offense to get on the same page("Gell" as defined by a certain KC coach)is beyond disgraceful. These people are all pro football players. It's their job.They've been playing this game at one level or another collecttively for years. Have Favre and Schott go through the playbook, adopt 40-50 plays he's comfortable with and bring another 5-10 in every week. And practice them. spare us the "gell" excuse. Now, we can all see the Bolts had pulled in the horns a bit, but still there's some indications that it's the playcalling not the talent.

I cannot understand how an OC wouldn't hitch his wagon to Brett Favre, turn him loose, and reap the reward of a HCing job.

No, Schotty obviously thinks he's going to mold Brett Favre into adapting to his playbook, which obviously must require a Rosetta Stone to interpret it.

And if it's not that, if Favre wasn't brought in for football, but for marketing,by Johnson to be the cover for PSLs, nothing more, they sold their souls for a season of nothingness. If that's the case, I have no sympathy for any of these bastards.And it's time to root for someone else after 30+ years.

The Franchise sold alot of Favre Jerseys. Maybe thats all they wanted out of him.

Thomas Jones and Vernon Gholston (see below)are lovely specimens if we are going to be participating in a remake of "Pumping Iron". They have no discernible football abilities. And you have to figure that either Jones is too slow to go off tackle or our tackles cannot get out in space and block. Either way,watching him running into the pile for little or no gain is now a joke.

Jones = Ron Dayne. Gholston = Brian Bozworth.

I am at wit's end with this sh1t team and franchise. We've watched worse teams, but no as dissappointing and disheartening so far

It's the same ol' same ol--

Everybody is just cashing a check.