gangreenman Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Just started thinking about this randomly, and figured Id post it to see what others thoughts were... Everybody admires the best, and everybody who isn't the best, wants to be the best, and will imitate those that are the best. Its been seen in both NCAA basketball and NFL football. However, in both cases, coaches that are both considered to be among the best to ever hold their jobs, both were mentored by Hall of Fame all time great coaches (BB by BP, Coach K by Coach Knight), and both have obviously have had unbelievable success themselves. Yet, surprisingly, although teams in both leagues have reached out to assistants of those programs to turn their own programs around, these two amazing coaches have trained few, if any, of their assistants to become good, or great coaches. The amount of teams in college basketball who have failed when reaching out to Duke assistants (UMich most recently) is comparable to the amount of NFL teams that have failed reaching out to BB assistants (none of his assistants has held their NFL HC job for more then 4 years thus far). In neither case has any team even come close to emulating the success of either the Pats or the Blue Devils. An interestng pattern to say the least, even if meaningless. Anyone have any guesses as to why this is feel free to share them, as I don't have a damn clue, which is probably why I find it so interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachTsurfing Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 belicheat will never get into the hall of fame because of his cheating record. I don't know way he felt the need to cheat he had a great team, and is a good coach. The cheating thing will disgrace him though for the rest of his life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Jet Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 belicheat will never get into the hall of fame because of his cheating record. I don't know way he felt the need to cheat he had a great team, and is a good coach. The cheating thing will disgrace him though for the rest of his life. All I can add is * ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alk Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 belicheat will never get into the hall of fame because of his cheating record. I don't know way he felt the need to cheat he had a great team, and is a good coach. The cheating thing will disgrace him though for the rest of his life. I'd make a bet on that. Belichick will be a first ballot HOF'er. The whole spygate thing is a non issue anymore. The NFL has completely moved on, it's just Jets fans that still make a stink about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 I'd make a bet on that. Belichick will be a first ballot HOF'er. The whole spygate thing is a non issue anymore. The NFL has completely moved on, it's just Jets fans that still make a stink about it. he will not be a first ballott HOF he will have to wait.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetfan13 Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Coach K cheats too? hmmm makes sense, he hasn't won a title in years, guess they dis-mantled the camera at Chapel Hill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Well, I hope both of them get hit by a bus, if that's what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Meh, I think most respect Coach K simply for his track record over the past 25 years. Most of the hatred of Duke has always been geared more towards the fact that they're prep school kids who in recent years have been overrated just about every single season going into the tourney. Especially in the latter half of this decade, the Duke hatred has been geared more towards the fact that they've gotten higher tourney seeds based on the name on their jerseys rather than what they actually deserved (with the exception of the year Deng played). Duke hasn't been "the best" in quite some time, there's several schools who have been just as, if not more successful over the past decade or so. There's been a very evident double-standard for that school for a very, very long time now in terms of seeding and officiating, and quite frankly it's bullsh-t. The fact that they're all rich kids is the icing on the cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garb Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 I'd make a bet on that. Belichick will be a first ballot HOF'er. The whole spygate thing is a non issue anymore. The NFL has completely moved on, it's just Jets fans that still make a stink about it. I want in on that action. Where do sign up? There are two Patriots that will be first ballot HOF'ers - and I'm not even remotely worried that it's not true: Bill Belichick and Tom Brady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Just for reference. since 1995: -duke has advanced beyond the Sweet 16 just FOUR times. -They have made the FF just THREE times In this decade they were a 1 or 2 seed 8 times, they advanced beyond the Sweet 16 TWICE. K was great in the 80s and 90s, his time has passed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 One's an ass, the other one has been molding prep kids into NBA stars and has turned around USA basketball. They're both great coaches, but that's where the similarities end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 I want in on that action. Where do sign up? There are two Patriots that will be first ballot HOF'ers - and I'm not even remotely worried that it's not true: Bill Belichick and Tom Brady. i'll be dead before mumbles gets in so not sure how i would pay you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 One's an ass, the other one has been molding prep kids into NBA stars and has turned around USA basketball. They're both great coaches, but that's where the similarities end. NBA stars? duke is known for their NBA busts and turned around USA basketball? That started at the top putting together a TEAM not just a collection of players. Anyone could have coached those guys to gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 belicheat will never get into the hall of fame because of his cheating record. I don't know way he felt the need to cheat he had a great team, and is a good coach. The cheating thing will disgrace him though for the rest of his life. I want in on that action. Where do sign up? There are two Patriots that will be first ballot HOF'ers - and I'm not even remotely worried that it's not true: Bill Belichick and Tom Brady. Me too. Just for reference. since 1995: -duke has advanced beyond the Sweet 16 just FOUR times. -They have made the FF just THREE times In this decade they were a 1 or 2 seed 8 times, they advanced beyond the Sweet 16 TWICE. K was great in the 80s and 90s, his time has passed. Just for the record, Duke has the most wins this decade. The only thing wrong with Duke and it is similar to all big programs. Sometimes players are not as good as they are advertised. He will go after 1000 wins if he wants it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangreenman Posted April 2, 2009 Author Share Posted April 2, 2009 Just for reference. since 1995: -duke has advanced beyond the Sweet 16 just FOUR times. -They have made the FF just THREE times In this decade they were a 1 or 2 seed 8 times, they advanced beyond the Sweet 16 TWICE. K was great in the 80s and 90s, his time has passed. I hate Duke as much as the next person: But how you perform in the NCAA torney really isn't the end-all for a coach... But even so, how many coaches can say that they are CRITICIZED for ONLY making the Final Four 3 times in 14 years? The fact that that is a downtrend from what he once was doing with Duke says something in and of itself. Oh, and the past decade or so... Every season all I hear and all I think is that Duke is so overrated, overrated, out-athleticized, and every year they go out and schedule tough OOC games and prove they can continue competing with elite teams that bring in top of the line recruiting classes year after year without missing a beat. That the sign of a good coach, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachTsurfing Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 I'd make a bet on that. Belichick will be a first ballot HOF'er. The whole spygate thing is a non issue anymore. The NFL has completely moved on, it's just Jets fans that still make a stink about it. I don't agree. Ask some other fans from other teams what they think of Belicheat. I can almost guarantee that the majority of football fans from other teams will bring up his cheating record. Go ahead and ask some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alk Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 I don't agree. Ask some other fans from other teams what they think of Belicheat. I can almost guarantee that the majority of football fans from other teams will bring up his cheating record. Go ahead and ask some. If only fans determined who goes to the HOF. Then it would be like the Pro Bowl. Belichick is first ballot end of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 That started at the top putting together a TEAM not just a collection of players. And who do you think had a hand in that? Coach K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 And who do you think had a hand in that? Coach K Dude, it's called The Duke Curse for a reason. I get the overall point you were trying to make, but you were way off with the NBA stars comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Belichick. Or B*l*ch*ck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PETROCK Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 I thought you were going to say that Bill Bellichek is to football what a hemorrhoid is to my @$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PETROCK Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 I'd make a bet on that. Belichick will be a first ballot HOF'er. The whole spygate thing is a non issue anymore. The NFL has completely moved on, it's just Jets fans that still make a stink about it. Really?? Just how many Championships has he won since he got caught cheating. Better yet, if he's so great how many Superbowls have the Pats even made an appearance in since he got caught cheating?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alk Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Really?? Just how many Championships has he won since he got caught cheating. Better yet, if he's so great how many Superbowls have the Pats even made an appearance in since he got caught cheating?? What does that have to do with anything? He has three Super Bowl rings. End of discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 I don't follow college baksetball but if Coach K is someone who: Was once considered a great coach Peaked a few years ago Was caught cheating Lets his ego get in the way Then yes, I say he is much like Belly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Really?? Just how many Championships has he won since he got caught cheating. Better yet, if he's so great how many Superbowls have the Pats even made an appearance in since he got caught cheating?? Have you been in a coma? XLII ring a bell? The team is 28-6 since he was caught. Great argument....not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Have you been in a coma? XLII ring a bell? The team is 28-6 since he was caught. Great argument....not. How many rings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Really?? Just how many Championships has he won since he got caught cheating. Better yet, if he's so great how many Superbowls have the Pats even made an appearance in since he got caught cheating?? How many rings? Not the question Maximus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Me too. Just for the record, Duke has the most wins this decade. The only thing wrong with Duke and it is similar to all big programs. Sometimes players are not as good as they are advertised. He will go after 1000 wins if he wants it. The most wins this decade is meaningless, I believe the yankees have the most wins this decade. Is that something to crow about w/ only 1 title? Sometimes players aren't as good as advertised? That's true but more often than not the players K is recruiting aren't as good as advertised and K is not a good developer of talent. Duke is NOT an elite program right now. I hate Duke as much as the next person: But how you perform in the NCAA torney really isn't the end-all for a coach... But even so, how many coaches can say that they are CRITICIZED for ONLY making the Final Four 3 times in 14 years? The fact that that is a downtrend from what he once was doing with Duke says something in and of itself. Oh, and the past decade or so... Every season all I hear and all I think is that Duke is so overrated, overrated, out-athleticized, and every year they go out and schedule tough OOC games and prove they can continue competing with elite teams that bring in top of the line recruiting classes year after year without missing a beat. That the sign of a good coach, IMO. Success is dictated by hwat you do in the Tourney, duke elevated to elite status b/c they went to 7 FFs in 9 seasons from 1986-2004. When you are a 1 seed you are expected to make the FF- 4 times they were a 1 seed and didn't even make the rgeional final. Only twice advancing beyond the Sweet 16 in a decade where you were a 1 or 2 EIGHT times is an awful job. Duke is overrated and that is proven in the Tourney. Top of the line recruiting classes? duke hasn't had a true big time class since the '99 class w/ Boozer, dunleavy and Jason Williams. And who do you think had a hand in that? Coach K He was inconsequential to them winning gold. Colangelo put the team together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangreenman Posted April 3, 2009 Author Share Posted April 3, 2009 The most wins this decade is meaningless, I believe the yankees have the most wins this decade. Is that something to crow about w/ only 1 title? Sometimes players aren't as good as advertised? That's true but more often than not the players K is recruiting aren't as good as advertised and K is not a good developer of talent. Duke is NOT an elite program right now. Success is dictated by hwat you do in the Tourney, duke elevated to elite status b/c they went to 7 FFs in 9 seasons from 1986-2004. When you are a 1 seed you are expected to make the FF- 4 times they were a 1 seed and didn't even make the rgeional final. Only twice advancing beyond the Sweet 16 in a decade where you were a 1 or 2 EIGHT times is an awful job. Duke is overrated and that is proven in the Tourney. Top of the line recruiting classes? duke hasn't had a true big time class since the '99 class w/ Boozer, dunleavy and Jason Williams. He was inconsequential to them winning gold. Colangelo put the team together. ..And yet every year, they seem to somehow finish at the top of their league and in the top 10 in the nation. And its not like the ACC is a cupcake league either by any stretch of the imagination. The fact that he doesn't recruit as well as other coaches in his league yet his teams still find ways to win is my point as to why he is such a good coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 ..And yet every year, they seem to somehow finish at the top of their league and in the top 10 in the nation. And its not like the ACC is a cupcake league either by any stretch of the imagination. The fact that he doesn't recruit as well as other coaches in his league yet his teams still find ways to win is my point as to why he is such a good coach. and every year they don't make it past the Sweet 16 which incldes 2 of the last 3 years not making it out of the 1st weekend. At schools like Carolina and duke anything less than a FF is a disappoinment. Reg season wins are nice but 4 times since 1995 advancing beyond the Sweet is pathetic for a big time program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 The most wins this decade is meaningless, I believe the yankees have the most wins this decade. Is that something to crow about w/ only 1 title? Sometimes players aren't as good as advertised? That's true but more often than not the players K is recruiting aren't as good as advertised and K is not a good developer of talent. Duke is NOT an elite program right now. Success is dictated by hwat you do in the Tourney, duke elevated to elite status b/c they went to 7 FFs in 9 seasons from 1986-2004. When you are a 1 seed you are expected to make the FF- 4 times they were a 1 seed and didn't even make the rgeional final. Only twice advancing beyond the Sweet 16 in a decade where you were a 1 or 2 EIGHT times is an awful job. Duke is overrated and that is proven in the Tourney. Top of the line recruiting classes? duke hasn't had a true big time class since the '99 class w/ Boozer, dunleavy and Jason Williams. Let me guess you are a Big LEast honk. Duke is an elite program. A private school which actually embraces academics is the winningest program of this decade and probably over the last two. It is funny you are knocking them for only making the Sweet 16, yet they made it 9 straight years. How many other teams can say this? Not UCONN. Or UNC. No other private school has similar success, much less big BCS programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Let me guess you are a Big LEast honk. Duke is an elite program. A private school which actually embraces academics is the winningest program of this decade and probably over the last two. It is funny you are knocking them for only making the Sweet 16, yet they made it 9 straight years. How many other teams can say this? Not UCONN. Or UNC. No other private school has similar success, much less big BCS programs. No I despise the BE. I am a Carolina fan. Who cares if they are a private school? Winningest reg season means nothing. You sound like those dolphin fans who tell us how Miami has the best win % so they are an elite franchise. UNC didn't make it 9 straight years they made it THIRTEEN straight from 1981-1993. Sweet 16s are nice but elite programs need to make it beyond the Sweet 16 more consistently. 4 times beyond the Sweeet 16 since 1995 is awful for an elite program. EIGHT times this decade they were a 1 or 2 seed and they have only advanced past the Sweet 16 TWO times. You can make all the excuses you want, duke is still perceived as an elite program but they haven't performed like one on the court in the Tourney when it matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn306 Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 I don't follow college baksetball but if Coach K is someone who: Was once considered a great coach Check Peaked a few years ago Check Was caught cheating Nope: Too smart for that Lets his ego get in the way Check Then yes, I say he is much like Belly. Actually he is better. Not by much though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 No I despise the BE. I am a Carolina fan. Who cares if they are a private school? Winningest reg season means nothing. You sound like those dolphin fans who tell us how Miami has the best win % so they are an elite franchise. UNC didn't make it 9 straight years they made it THIRTEEN straight from 1981-1993. Sweet 16s are nice but elite programs need to make it beyond the Sweet 16 more consistently. 4 times beyond the Sweeet 16 since 1995 is awful for an elite program. EIGHT times this decade they were a 1 or 2 seed and they have only advanced past the Sweet 16 TWO times. You can make all the excuses you want, duke is still perceived as an elite program but they haven't performed like one on the court in the Tourney when it matters. Uh huh....that explains a lot. UNC homer. For five of those seasons, UNC only had to win one game to reach Sweet 16. I am not denying they have not struggled. They clearly have. However, it is just they way things go. UNC missed the tournament earlier this decade. It did not make them a lesser program. They are still great. Duke is in funk. They are still an elite prgram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PETROCK Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Have you been in a coma? XLII ring a bell? The team is 28-6 since he was caught. Great argument....not. No if you open you eyes you would see that the question did start out with how many championships did Bellicheat win since they got caught cheating. Superbowl XLII they LOST!!!! Apparently you've been in a coma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.