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2009/10 NCAA basketball Thread

SouthernJet

By SouthernJet
in College Sports

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Otter

Otter

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My brackets have never been more destroyed. I don't remember even not having one team in the Final Four. If West Virginia loses tomorrow then that'll be the case. Still, this is one of the best tourney's I can remember.

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gangreenman

gangreenman

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My brackets have never been more destroyed. I don't remember even not having one team in the Final Four. If West Virginia loses tomorrow then that'll be the case. Still, this is one of the best tourney's I can remember.

..It's one of the worst I can remember. Who the F is Butler? Seriously.

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gangreenman

gangreenman

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Who does everyone like for the Final Four now?

I think K-State, Michigan State, Baylor, and Kentucky will make it.

I am rooting for K-State and WVU to make it to the final however.

I cant watch college basketball probably until November. I get a huge pit in my stomach just thinking about this tournament. Pretty sure a part of me died on Thursday night.

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uart

uart

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The big east is overrated, Im still happy WVU beat Kentucky though.

Not at all. This was a wacky year and a wacky tournament.

The Big XII had a bunch of great teams this year, but now where are they? Baylor is their last hope of a Final Four team. The SEC is down to one team as well, as is the Big Ten.

The Final Four will be:

Horizon League <-- NOT the best conference & not underrated

Big East

ACC/Big XII <-- Down year for the ACC, but Duke has been good

BigTen/SEC <-- almost nobody considered these conferences to be the best

So... If the Big East is overrated, what conferences are better? You really can't argue it based on tournament success. That's a fool's game. You have to base it on the full body of work over the season.

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Jetsfan80

Jetsfan80

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Aaaaand we have mother****ing Butler in the Final Four.

**** you college basketball.

No, f*** you. A 4500 enrollment school in the final 4 is what has helped make this tourney GREAT. Not only that, they get to play their Final 4 game in their home city, Indianapolis. The NCAA Tournament is basically the last place left where a "Hoosiers"-like moment can happen, and Butler knocking off Syracuse and then K-State was one of them. You should be rooting for Butler too, it makes Cuse look better for losing.

I know that the 6 power conferences are then entree; they're what make the tourney go, and thats cool. But the mid-majors are the spice, and without them, the tournament is incredibly dull.

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Jetsfan80

Jetsfan80

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You're right, those are all good teams...That Kentucky is better than. I think UK has more talent then any team in the nation, including Syracuse. Just that Syracuse's zone would have given UK fits IMO. IOTW, every one of their players can score on any one of everyone else's, but all five might struggle against all five of syracuse's.

Care to change your opinion on this?

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gangreenman

gangreenman

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No, f*** you. A 4500 enrollment school in the final 4 is what has helped make this tourney GREAT. Not only that, they get to play their Final 4 game in their home city, Indianapolis. The NCAA Tournament is basically the last place left where a "Hoosiers"-like moment can happen, and Butler knocking off Syracuse and then K-State was one of them. You should be rooting for Butler too, it makes Cuse look better for losing.

I know that the 6 power conferences are then entree; they're what make the tourney go, and thats cool. But the mid-majors are the spice, and without them, the tournament is incredibly dull.

Lets be real though. Do you think Butler or some mid-major school like that winning the whole thing is really good for college basketball? I agree, its cool and all to have a cinderella team give the "big boys" a scare and to make a run, and possibly even get to the final four... Thats great for the small schools and small conferences, and its what makes college bball so unique.

But don't you think the national champion should resemble something close to the best team in college that year? Butler is having a great run this tourney... No question. But do you really believe that they are a better team than either Kansas St. or Syracuse? Or is part of that that they caught both teams a little off-guard for a game? Now, if they had to play teams of that caliber all season long in a one of the power conferences...Do you think their record would have been anywhere near as impressive? I don't. In fact, they'd probably be closer to a bubble team.

Butler is making a great run and congrats to them...But I just don't think it bodes college basketball well should they win their next 2 and get the hardware...

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Jetsfan80

Jetsfan80

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Lets be real though. Do you think Butler or some mid-major school like that winning the whole thing is really good for college basketball? I agree, its cool and all to have a cinderella team give the "big boys" a scare and to make a run, and possibly even get to the final four... Thats great for the small schools and small conferences, and its what makes college bball so unique.

But don't you think the national champion should resemble something close to the best team in college that year? Butler is having a great run this tourney... No question. But do you really believe that they are a better team than either Kansas St. or Syracuse? Or is part of that that they caught both teams a little off-guard for a game? Now, if they had to play teams of that caliber all season long in a one of the power conferences...Do you think their record would have been anywhere near as impressive? I don't. In fact, they'd probably be closer to a bubble team.

Butler is making a great run and congrats to them...But I just don't think it bodes college basketball well should they win their next 2 and get the hardware...

The way you decide who a better team is is how they perform on the court. Butler was better than K-State and Cuse, PERIOD. Conference affiliation doesn't make you a lesser team, Butler has been a top 25 program for a while, and is finally having their coming out party.

Butler went into this tournament as a 5-seed. They deserved that strong seed, and they deserve to be here. Like I said, bubble teams dont win 24 straight games, and I do NOT believe other "bubble teams" in bigger conferences would go undefeated in the Horizon, because teams in that conference do not give you an inch defensively.

Just because teams like Kansas, Kentucky and Cuse are part of basketball royalty doesnt mean its their birth right to win all the national titles. There are other strong programs outside of the power conferences. Tennessee and Michigan State are 6 and 5-seeds and still around. Would you say those 2 teams aren't deserving of winning it all, or does the fact that they are in the SEC and Big 10, respectively, make them "worthy"?

And oh, about Butler's schedule, the Bulldogs have been playing a national schedule for a while now, and the only reason they don't get even tougher non-conference games is because not many teams want to play them, at least not on Butler's home floor. With this final 4 run, however, you'll see their non-conference schedule take another step up. That being said, Butler beat Xavier, Ohio State and also played Clemson, Georgetown, Minnesota, UCLA and UAB in non-conference this season; check out some of the non-conference schedules of the big boys and compare. Even when you throw in Horizon play, Butler had the # 76 SOS. Not great, but not terrible either, and they made the most of it.

If you don't like that a smaller school is in the Final 4, the solution is simple for the elite teams. Play better basketball. Don't take another team lightly in the NCAA's. Don't go through the motions. Butler has played like they've wanted it more, and you either have to adapt or you lose.

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PS17

PS17

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No, f*** you. A 4500 enrollment school in the final 4 is what has helped make this tourney GREAT. Not only that, they get to play their Final 4 game in their home city, Indianapolis. The NCAA Tournament is basically the last place left where a "Hoosiers"-like moment can happen, and Butler knocking off Syracuse and then K-State was one of them. You should be rooting for Butler too, it makes Cuse look better for losing.

I know that the 6 power conferences are then entree; they're what make the tourney go, and thats cool. But the mid-majors are the spice, and without them, the tournament is incredibly dull.

I know it's what makes the tourney great. Doesn't mean I can't be pissed that they're in the Final Four.

I just hate watching their really ugly style of basketball. No grudges whatsoever.

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gangreenman

gangreenman

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The way you decide who a better team is is how they perform on the court. Butler was better than K-State and Cuse, PERIOD. Conference affiliation doesn't make you a lesser team, Butler has been a top 25 program for a while, and is finally having their coming out party.

Butler went into this tournament as a 5-seed. They deserved that strong seed, and they deserve to be here. Like I said, bubble teams dont win 24 straight games, and I do NOT believe other "bubble teams" in bigger conferences would go undefeated in the Horizon, because teams in that conference do not give you an inch defensively.

Just because teams like Kansas, Kentucky and Cuse are part of basketball royalty doesnt mean its their birth right to win all the national titles. There are other strong programs outside of the power conferences. Tennessee and Michigan State are 6 and 5-seeds and still around. Would you say those 2 teams aren't deserving of winning it all, or does the fact that they are in the SEC and Big 10, respectively, make them "worthy"?

And oh, about Butler's schedule, the Bulldogs have been playing a national schedule for a while now, and the only reason they don't get even tougher non-conference games is because not many teams want to play them, at least not on Butler's home floor. With this final 4 run, however, you'll see their non-conference schedule take another step up. That being said, Butler beat Xavier, Ohio State and also played Clemson, Georgetown, Minnesota, UCLA and UAB in non-conference this season; check out some of the non-conference schedules of the big boys and compare. Even when you throw in Horizon play, Butler had the # 76 SOS. Not great, but not terrible either, and they made the most of it.

If you don't like that a smaller school is in the Final 4, the solution is simple for the elite teams. Play better basketball. Don't take another team lightly in the NCAA's. Don't go through the motions. Butler has played like they've wanted it more, and you either have to adapt or you lose.

Couple things here....

1 - Let me ask again...DO you really think Butler is a better team than KState or Syracuse? I didnt ask whether or not theyve been good in the past or if they've gotten enough recognition for being good... I asked do you really think that Butler better than both KState and Syracuse.

This leads to 2 - The best way to determine whose the better team is to have a series. Before I continue I would like to say that I am completely against the idea and think it would ruin what makes this tournament so great to watch if you're team is not a favorite. But the facts are sometimes even the best teams have off days or sometimes take their opponents lightly and don't come out like they should for a game. Other than some delusional Butler fans, do you think anyone believes that Butler is good enough to have beaten Syracuse in a series and then do the same in a series against K.State? The NCAA tournament is set up to create excitement and to help the mid-major underdog teams get more publicity. The NBA playoffs is set up so that the best team wins. Usually in the NCAA tournament, the team that wins is one of the best teams in basketball that year. If Butler wins... I think everyone knows that they were not the best team in basketball this year, nor were they anything close.

Thats why I think it would be bad for college basketball for Butler to win it all. Don't get me wrong, they have been having an unbelievable run in this tournament...And deserve all the credit in the world for it. I just dont think the NCAA wants to see an underdog team with a limited fan base in a small conference win it all. Parity is good, too much is, well, too much.

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gangreenman

gangreenman

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There is so much parity in college basketball anyway. Butler is technically a mid major team, but they really arent.

The team they have now could play in any conference in college basketball.

Yes, they probably would be somewhat competitive... No, I dont think they would finish above .500 in any of the major conferences.

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Jetsfan80

Jetsfan80

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Couple things here....

1 - Let me ask again...DO you really think Butler is a better team than KState or Syracuse? I didnt ask whether or not theyve been good in the past or if they've gotten enough recognition for being good... I asked do you really think that Butler better than both KState and Syracuse.

This leads to 2 - The best way to determine whose the better team is to have a series. Before I continue I would like to say that I am completely against the idea and think it would ruin what makes this tournament so great to watch if you're team is not a favorite. But the facts are sometimes even the best teams have off days or sometimes take their opponents lightly and don't come out like they should for a game. Other than some delusional Butler fans, do you think anyone believes that Butler is good enough to have beaten Syracuse in a series and then do the same in a series against K.State? The NCAA tournament is set up to create excitement and to help the mid-major underdog teams get more publicity. The NBA playoffs is set up so that the best team wins. Usually in the NCAA tournament, the team that wins is one of the best teams in basketball that year. If Butler wins... I think everyone knows that they were not the best team in basketball this year, nor were they anything close.

Thats why I think it would be bad for college basketball for Butler to win it all. Don't get me wrong, they have been having an unbelievable run in this tournament...And deserve all the credit in the world for it. I just dont think the NCAA wants to see an underdog team with a limited fan base in a small conference win it all. Parity is good, too much is, well, too much.

Yes, I will say that they were a better basketball team than Syracuse and K-State. Not "better on that day" or "got lucky to catch Cuse and State on an offday". They were better, period. On what other stage do you have to prove it than the NCAA Tournament?

This isn't like college football where the method of choosing the champion is questionable. The rules are simple. Play your way into the tourney, either as an at-large or conference champ (Butler would have been either, even if they got knocked out of their conference tourney in the 1st round, by the way), then survive and advance in the NCAA Tournament until a champion is crowned. The teams that make it out are the best teams, like it or not.

Like I said, would you call 6-seed Tennessee an illegitimate Final 4 team/national title contender if they beat Michigan State today?

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Jetsfan80

Jetsfan80

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Yes, they probably would be somewhat competitive... No, I dont think they would finish above .500 in any of the major conferences.

Wins over Xavier and Ohio State this season tell me otherwise. Butler has already proven themselves time and again against a national non-conference schedule, year after year. They don't require acknowledgment from people who aren't aware how successful they've been, but hopefully everyone is getting a good education on Butler now.

And its not like the Horizon is a bunch of dregs, either; they all play a similar style as Butler, its just that the Bulldogs have a budget on the same plane as a Gonzaga or a middle-of-the-pack BCS school. Butler would have finished in the top 5 or 6 of ANY conference in America, including the Big East, and would have been capable of winning at least one conference (PAC-10), for sure.

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gangreenman

gangreenman

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Yes, I will say that they were a better basketball team than Syracuse and K-State. Not "better on that day" or "got lucky to catch Cuse and State on an offday". They were better, period. On what other stage do you have to prove it than the NCAA Tournament?

This isn't like college football where the method of choosing the champion is questionable. The rules are simple. Play your way into the tourney, either as an at-large or conference champ (Butler would have been either, even if they got knocked out of their conference tourney in the 1st round, by the way), then survive and advance in the NCAA Tournament until a champion is crowned. The teams that make it out are the best teams, like it or not.

Like I said, would you call 6-seed Tennessee an illegitimate Final 4 team/national title contender if they beat Michigan State today?

1 - Yes, I would call Tennessee an illegitimate Final Four team if they beat MSU today... I do not think they are close to being one of the 4 best teams in the nation this year either.

2 - The design of the NCAA tournament is to give the mid majors and underdogs a shot at getting public recognition. It is not designed for the best team to win every year. If that was the objective...We'd be seeing a series incorporated.... Similar to what they have in the NBA. I hate the college football BCS system as well... But thats an entirely different argument.

3 - I did not watch the Butler-KSU game...But I did watch the Butler-SU game. There is NO QUESTION in my mind that Syracuse would beat Butler in a series...Even with the injury to Onuaku. Syracuse did not lose to Butler that game as much as they lost to themselves. They have lost by more to teams such as Lville and Pitt who play a similar style of bball as Butler plays (at least defensively), and still had better games then they had against Butler.

Butler won that game by four. Thats with a HUGE disparity in the turnover margin, which would not exist every game.

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