JN Mafia Thread: Superheroes Unite!

[Doggin94it]

I dont need anything spoon fed Doggin.

There was plenty of speculation SMC could not reveal and a Hero would know this. Would a Villian ? not so sure. The arguement on SMC stunk that much is now evident as it was during the discussion. Say what you will about his play to divert the scumminess off you, he clearly made his point to me.

Its obvious now that Heros need to use Discretion because if they reveal its very possible their villian arch enemy could take them out easier. Thats why i feel a Villian gets 2 votes aganist their arch enemy.

if your a hero you shjould know exactly what Im talking about and vote Doggin out.

Really, bright boy? Lets go back to first principles (you really do need remedial mafia school, don't you?)

1) Revealing your power is not the same thing as revealing which hero you are. Saying "I'm the doc" would not have made us all go "oooh, obviously SMC is superman" or made his "arch enemy" aware that he could target SMC (if that's what's happening behind the scenes, and I find your certainty about what scum can and cannot do . . . interesting)

2) Saying "if you kill me, it will be bad for the town" is typical scum behavior, because without specifics, its impossible to catch a lie. Scum claiming finder can be caught when the real finder reveals or is killed. Same for scum claiming doc (the only two real devastating losses for a town). Scum claiming "it would be bad" cannot be - because if the finder shows up dead, they can simply say "you thought I was claiming finder? No, I wasn't doing that."

3) Saying "if you kill me, it will be bad for the town" is also not good townie behavior, because if the reason you aren't saying "I'm the ___" is to keep the scum in the dark, it's no use. They already know you're not scum, so all saying "it will be bad for the town" does is put you on their radar for a NK.

Bottom line, townies don't do that, typically, scum does.

4) Turns out, SMC was probably restricted in what he could say. And probably restricted in acknowledging the restriction. But he didn't do anything at all to signal that. Instead, he gave a ludicrous alternative reason for not revealing: "I don't want to, because I'd rather die then help the town win if they're going to lynch me" - a piece of arrogance that only made him look scummier. There were better ways around the revelation restriction, including just saying nothing or even "you're probably right, but I still won't tell you" - acknowledging the general point and implying (without stating or getting modkilled) that there must be a reason not to in this circumstance.

5) In fact, Smash, since you are saying it should have been obvious that he was restricted from even role claiming (which AFAIK nobody else is), I'd have expected to see a post from you while SMC was on the block saying "guys, he's obviously under a restriction". Odd, then, that I don't remember that post from you. Care to explain why not?

Sorry, Smash, but nothing in your responses suggests to me that you've gotten any better since your first abysmal attempt at teh mafia a year ago.

[Smashmouth]

Whether it was discussed or not, there are only 5 people who could make a definitive statement about it. You made a definitive statement about it.

and i told you 3 times it was an assumption.

Verbal thanks for clearing up some stuff. its becoming obvious to me EY is working with Doggin and clearly trying to confuse yet again just like he did to SMC . Someone tell me how this is pro Town when hes been told my intentions yet still pushes the Definative card ?

[Smashmouth]

Really, bright boy? Lets go back to first principles (you really do need remedial mafia school, don't you?)

1) Revealing your power is not the same thing as revealing which hero you are. Saying "I'm the doc" would not have made us all go "oooh, obviously SMC is superman" or made his "arch enemy" aware that he could target SMC (if that's what's happening behind the scenes, and I find your certainty about what scum can and cannot do . . . interesting)

2) Saying "if you kill me, it will be bad for the town" is typical scum behavior, because without specifics, its impossible to catch a lie. Scum claiming finder can be caught when the real finder reveals or is killed. Same for scum claiming doc (the only two real devastating losses for a town). Scum claiming "it would be bad" cannot be - because if the finder shows up dead, they can simply say "you thought I was claiming finder? No, I wasn't doing that."

3) Saying "if you kill me, it will be bad for the town" is also not good townie behavior, because if the reason you aren't saying "I'm the ___" is to keep the scum in the dark, it's no use. They already know you're not scum, so all saying "it will be bad for the town" does is put you on their radar for a NK.

Bottom line, townies don't do that, typically, scum does.

4) Turns out, SMC was probably restricted in what he could say. And probably restricted in acknowledging the restriction. But he didn't do anything at all to signal that. Instead, he gave a ludicrous alternative reason for not revealing: "I don't want to, because I'd rather die then help the town win if they're going to lynch me" - a piece of arrogance that only made him look scummier. There were better ways around the revelation restriction, including just saying nothing or even "you're probably right, but I still won't tell you" - acknowledging the general point and implying (without stating or getting modkilled) that there must be a reason not to in this circumstance.

5) In fact, Smash, since you are saying it should have been obvious that he was restricted from even role claiming (which AFAIK nobody else is), I'd have expected to see a post from you while SMC was on the block saying "guys, he's obviously under a restriction". Odd, then, that I don't remember that post from you. Care to explain why not?

Sorry, Smash, but nothing in your responses suggests to me that you've gotten any better since your first abysmal attempt at teh mafia a year ago.

This is all fine Doggin But while SMC was being lynched it was discussed that he might not be able to reveal. It was obvious he was struggling with this yet you kept hammering him to do so. It shopuld of at some point been evident to you something other than conventional Mafia rules was at play and im sure it was . Thank you for the lesson Ill keep that in mind .

[Doggin94it]

Doggin's not going to overreact to one vote. He's going to try to brush it off whether he's guilty or innocent.

That is correct, sir

Honestly, I don't overreact even if I'm at L-1. It doesn't do anyone any good, and, as SMC found out, can be counterproductive

[Dan.]

and i told you 3 times it was an assumption.

I think the point they're trying to make is, from a townie's perspective it seems like a leap to make an assumption like that and state it like fact. No one else seems as certain as you do about how exactly SMC's restrictions and the villains' powers work. It makes more sense for us to be considering multiple possibilities with uncertainty because unlike the scum we can't talk to each other, and we don't know what other roles and powers are out there.

It's a bit of a stretch that a townie would simply decide one theory is right and work off of that like it's fact. Whereas it's more believable that as scum maybe you made a small slip that someone reading closely picked up on.

[Smashmouth]

Really, bright boy? Lets go back to first principles (you really do need remedial mafia school, don't you?)

1) Revealing your power is not the same thing as revealing which hero you are. Saying "I'm the doc" would not have made us all go "oooh, obviously SMC is superman" or made his "arch enemy" aware that he could target SMC (if that's what's happening behind the scenes, and I find your certainty about what scum can and cannot do . . . interesting)

2) Saying "if you kill me, it will be bad for the town" is typical scum behavior, because without specifics, its impossible to catch a lie. Scum claiming finder can be caught when the real finder reveals or is killed. Same for scum claiming doc (the only two real devastating losses for a town). Scum claiming "it would be bad" cannot be - because if the finder shows up dead, they can simply say "you thought I was claiming finder? No, I wasn't doing that."

3) Saying "if you kill me, it will be bad for the town" is also not good townie behavior, because if the reason you aren't saying "I'm the ___" is to keep the scum in the dark, it's no use. They already know you're not scum, so all saying "it will be bad for the town" does is put you on their radar for a NK.

Bottom line, townies don't do that, typically, scum does.

4) Turns out, SMC was probably restricted in what he could say. And probably restricted in acknowledging the restriction. But he didn't do anything at all to signal that. Instead, he gave a ludicrous alternative reason for not revealing: "I don't want to, because I'd rather die then help the town win if they're going to lynch me" - a piece of arrogance that only made him look scummier. There were better ways around the revelation restriction, including just saying nothing or even "you're probably right, but I still won't tell you" - acknowledging the general point and implying (without stating or getting modkilled) that there must be a reason not to in this circumstance.

5) In fact, Smash, since you are saying it should have been obvious that he was restricted from even role claiming (which AFAIK nobody else is), I'd have expected to see a post from you while SMC was on the block saying "guys, he's obviously under a restriction". Odd, then, that I don't remember that post from you. Care to explain why not?

Sorry, Smash, but nothing in your responses suggests to me that you've gotten any better since your first abysmal attempt at teh mafia a year ago.

Go back and read Doggin or would you like for me to find th post for you ?

[Doggin94it]

This is all fine Doggin But while SMC was being lynched it was discussed that he might not be able to reveal. It was obvious he was struggling with this yet you kept hammering him to do so. It shopuld of at some point been evident to you something other than conventional Mafia rules was at play and im sure it was . Thank you for the lesson Ill keep that in mind .

Go ahead and link to the post, Smash.

[ZachEY]

and i told you 3 times it was an assumption.

Verbal thanks for clearing up some stuff. its becoming obvious to me EY is working with Doggin and clearly trying to confuse yet again just like he did to SMC . Someone tell me how this is pro Town when hes been told my intentions yet still pushes the Definative card ?

I don't care what you said after the fact, calling it an assumption now is your only excuse.

I don't know for sure, but I think Doggin and I are working together on the Hero side... so you're right about that.

[Pac]

FOS Pac... for thinking Klecko is smart.

ha! I didn't say I necessarily agree with everything he says but it's usually put together in a pretty articulate fashion.

This whole babe in the woods nonsense he's been spewing is borderline insulting. "Do you think Mafia withheld their NK".. really?

Couple that with the fact he didn't react when needled by Slats and I'm starting to think he wants to keep a low profile and come off as harmless... all scum like activities.

[Pac]

Go ahead and link to the post, Smash.

I remember it actually.

[The Crusher]

I don't care what you said after the fact, calling it an assumption now is your only excuse.

I don't know for sure, but I think Doggin and I are working together on the Hero side... so you're right about that.

Well lets just say unless that hero happens to have been Da Superman, then not so much.

[Smashmouth]

Right he said he did not have a game specific power but im saying its possible he can have a role thats controlable but not revealable.

I think everyone could have a role or power but they are 2 diffeernt things and in this debate everything is getting twisted and confusing. Chan seems to be at the heart of this and it has my attention as do you and Arsis. Is it possible your making too much out of this for a reason to lynch someone ?

maybe hes Alfred and can not reveal his role but if he ides he takes batman with him after all some superheros do have people helping them out right ?

Chan for christs sake did you ever think maybe he cant reveal without doing more damage ?

the alfred one was a reach but i think this covers it doggin

[LAOut]

I'm reading, and I'm honestly not seeing how Smashmouth is looking that suspicious. While I think he's got the bit in his mouth on Doggin and EY, the points he's making are not outrageous. I don't agree enough to join him on a vote, because I think Doggin's case on SMC was pro-town. But if Doggin was mafia, he'd be sneaky like that, and that's why Smashmouth's claims have merit.

That's edging dangerously close to WIFOM, Verbal.

Vote Verbal

[Irish Jet]

Can someone like vote for me or something? I'm finiding it hard to get involved in this game for some reason.

Seriously though, reading through it's tough to get much of a scum vibe on anyone. EY and CTM are good players but they were too aggressive going after SMC IMO with not too much there to work with. That's the way they do play though more often than not.

BG is a guy that scares me. When scum he's very good at slipping by early on under the radar. I always feel that way about him though, the fact that he was on the wagon just stands out a little.

I don't see the case against Smashmouth to be honest and right I'd be more suspicious of Doggin who when scum always brings out these complex mafia principles (At least they're complex to me) to support his arguement. I think Smashmouth's statements were pretty fair.

[Irish Jet]

That's edging dangerously close to WIFOM, Verbal.

Vote Verbal

Remind me of this term please.

[Klecko73isGod]

ha! I didn't say I necessarily agree with everything he says but it's usually put together in a pretty articulate fashion.

This whole babe in the woods nonsense he's been spewing is borderline insulting. "Do you think Mafia withheld their NK".. really?

Couple that with the fact he didn't react when needled by Slats and I'm starting to think he wants to keep a low profile and come off as harmless... all scum like activities.

First of all, it's impossible for me to keep a low profile. I wouldn't to even know how to attempt that.

Second of all, I did react when Slats needled me. You need to read.

Third, I noticed that you attacked me the second I questioned Smashmouth and you are currently the only person agreeing with Smash. A real easy way to distract attention from yourself to accuse others, a real scummy move.

But for right now, I am focusing on the case against Smash and wanto hear more before I vote.

[Verbal]

WIFOM - wine in front of me

It is a scene from the Princess Bride movie. Check it out on youtube - it's hysterical.

And now that Smashmouth has posted THREE posts, all of which were made while SMC was alive (I think), I believe that should answer the question Doggin had with his #5.

I wouldn't consider my statement WIFOM, LAOut, but that's not my point. I think that Smashmouth's statements have merit, and he's throwing it out there. That's what a townie should be doing, right?

[Klecko73isGod]

I seem to be falling into the same SMC trap here all I can say is Im basing my play on a strong assumption which I have discribed 20 times. If you need to see why I feel that way go back and look. Whats weird though slats I thought you were in on that conversation as well.

If my wording made it look like I was 100 % sure you guys took it the wrong way and thats about all I can say on the subject.

Which is the ONLY reason I am not voting for you right now.

[Klecko73isGod]

Good morning everyone. Well... not so good if you are a hero that is.

As if Superman dying wasn't enough, it appears that all around good guy, compulsive alcoholic, JiF A.K.A Iron Man has been blown up real good. Some real technologically advanced explosives from the looks of it. Man, I haven't seen carnage this bad since the summer of '02. Iron Man, a founding member of the Avengers, will sorely be missed.

Let's take a quick look around. Looks like everyone else is still up and running. With 18 players, it takes 10 votes to lynch.

I think we all may have missed a clue.

[ZachEY]

WIFOM - wine in front of me

It is a scene from the Princess Bride movie. Check it out on youtube - it's hysterical.

And now that Smashmouth has posted THREE posts, all of which were made while SMC was alive (I think), I believe that should answer the question Doggin had with his #5.

I wouldn't consider my statement WIFOM, LAOut, but that's not my point. I think that Smashmouth's statements have merit, and he's throwing it out there. That's what a townie should be doing, right?

All the more reason to believe my original thoughts on smashmouth before his slip-up.

[The Crusher]

Remind me of this term please.

Wine in front of me from Princess bride. Is the poison in my glass or your glass. You choose.

[Arsis]

I think we all may have missed a clue.

What kind of clue?

[Klecko73isGod]

What kind of clue?

Why did JVOR highlight the fact that Ironman was the founder of the Avengers? Are the Avengers a hero team in the game? If so, who is the Hulk, who is Capt. America and who is Thor?

If there is an Avengers team is there also a group of X-men? Is there a Fantastic Four, a SuperFriends?

Or am I making a mountain out of a molehill?

[ZachEY]

Why did JVOR highlight the fact that Ironman was the founder of the Avengers? Are the Avengers a hero team in the game? If so, who is the Hulk, who is Capt. America and who is Thor?

If there is an Avengers team is there also a group of X-men? Is there a Fantastic Four, a SuperFriends?

Or am I making a mountain out of a molehill?

It's possible that we have a mason group on our hands... perhaps they could only communicate through their leader?

[Arsis]

Why did JVOR highlight the fact that Ironman was the founder of the Avengers? Are the Avengers a hero team in the game? If so, who is the Hulk, who is Capt. America and who is Thor?

If there is an Avengers team is there also a group of X-men? Is there a Fantastic Four, a SuperFriends?

Or am I making a mountain out of a molehill?

Hmm...good points. Gives us some stuff to think about.

[Irish Jet]

Why did JVOR highlight the fact that Ironman was the founder of the Avengers? Are the Avengers a hero team in the game? If so, who is the Hulk, who is Capt. America and who is Thor?

If there is an Avengers team is there also a group of X-men? Is there a Fantastic Four, a SuperFriends?

Or am I making a mountain out of a molehill?

Good shout. I didn't notice that before.

I really wish I had some comic book knowledge to work with here.

[slats]

It's possible that we have a mason group on our hands... perhaps they could only communicate through their leader?

If so, it reads that Iron Man was a founding member, which suggests maybe that it's a group with recruiting power?

[ZachEY]

If so, it reads that Iron Man was a founding member, which suggests maybe that it's a group with recruiting power?

Yes... perhaps he can communicate with others in his group as he finds them, which means, yes, he'll be sorely missed, because he could confirm innocents.

[Smashmouth]

Really, bright boy? Lets go back to first principles (you really do need remedial mafia school, don't you?)

1) Revealing your power is not the same thing as revealing which hero you are. Saying "I'm the doc" would not have made us all go "oooh, obviously SMC is superman" or made his "arch enemy" aware that he could target SMC (if that's what's happening behind the scenes, and I find your certainty about what scum can and cannot do . . . interesting)

2) Saying "if you kill me, it will be bad for the town" is typical scum behavior, because without specifics, its impossible to catch a lie. Scum claiming finder can be caught when the real finder reveals or is killed. Same for scum claiming doc (the only two real devastating losses for a town). Scum claiming "it would be bad" cannot be - because if the finder shows up dead, they can simply say "you thought I was claiming finder? No, I wasn't doing that."

3) Saying "if you kill me, it will be bad for the town" is also not good townie behavior, because if the reason you aren't saying "I'm the ___" is to keep the scum in the dark, it's no use. They already know you're not scum, so all saying "it will be bad for the town" does is put you on their radar for a NK.

Bottom line, townies don't do that, typically, scum does.

4) Turns out, SMC was probably restricted in what he could say. And probably restricted in acknowledging the restriction. But he didn't do anything at all to signal that. Instead, he gave a ludicrous alternative reason for not revealing: "I don't want to, because I'd rather die then help the town win if they're going to lynch me" - a piece of arrogance that only made him look scummier. There were better ways around the revelation restriction, including just saying nothing or even "you're probably right, but I still won't tell you" - acknowledging the general point and implying (without stating or getting modkilled) that there must be a reason not to in this circumstance.

5) In fact, Smash, since you are saying it should have been obvious that he was restricted from even role claiming (which AFAIK nobody else is), I'd have expected to see a post from you while SMC was on the block saying "guys, he's obviously under a restriction". Odd, then, that I don't remember that post from you. Care to explain why not?

Sorry, Smash, but nothing in your responses suggests to me that you've gotten any better since your first abysmal attempt at teh mafia a year ago.

Doggin if you remember way back when I first started playing Mafia I got bitched out 2 times for voting for someone who half assed claimed doctor. Everyone was all over me OMFG dont do that. Now I try and do the same and it seems the roles have reversed. I think Chan may remember better with gagoots going off the f#####G wall.

I had a strong feeling we were doing something bad and the biggest advocates for that seemed to be CTM EY and you with Arsis chiming in as well. Of those 4 I chose you because of what you have told me in the past and now it seems your changing your tune a bit. If Im wrong here I dont see it. I think I have a good grasp of what you discribed in your post above.

[Dan.]

Why did JVOR highlight the fact that Ironman was the founder of the Avengers? Are the Avengers a hero team in the game? If so, who is the Hulk, who is Capt. America and who is Thor?

If there is an Avengers team is there also a group of X-men? Is there a Fantastic Four, a SuperFriends?

Or am I making a mountain out of a molehill?

Shutout suggested this earlier, too. I think JVoR's opening post said something about putting aside our egos and working together, which becomes more meaningful if JiF was a mason.

[Dan.]

Unofficial Vote Count

Smashmouth (2) EY, slats

Doggin (1) Smashmouth

Klecko (1) Pac

Verbal (1) LAOut

10 to lynch.

[ZachEY]

Roster:

1) Doggin94it

2) Barmacral

3) Dan X

4) Slats

5) Crusher

6) Klecko

7) Irish Jet

8) Arsis

9) Pac

12) Smashmouth

13) Verbal

14) sharrow

15) LAout

16) CTM

17) EY

18) bleedin' green

19) shutout

20) Norway

Green... Strong Hero Vibe.

Blue... Hero Vibe.

Pink... Clean Vibe but weary of.

Orange... Don't love, but no case yet.

Purple... Possible Scum Vibe.

Red... Strong Scum Vibe.

Barm hasn't posted, so IDK.

[Irish Jet]

Roster:

1) Doggin94it

2) Barmacral

3) Dan X

4) Slats

5) Crusher

6) Klecko

7) Irish Jet

8) Arsis

9) Pac

12) Smashmouth

13) Verbal

14) sharrow

15) LAout

16) CTM

17) EY

18) bleedin' green

19) shutout

20) Norway

Green... Strong Hero Vibe.

Blue... Hero Vibe.

Pink... Clean Vibe but weary of.

Orange... Don't love, but no case yet.

Purple... Possible Scum Vibe.

Red... Strong Scum Vibe.

Barm hasn't posted, so IDK.

You only have a "strong vibe" that you're a hero?

[Klecko73isGod]

You only have a "strong vibe" that you're a hero?

[CTM]

the alfred one was a reach but i think this covers it doggin

How many of them were before the fatal 10th vote though? pretty sure atleast the last 2 weren't..

That being said, I'm not feeling the Smashmouth thing today. Like I said yesterday, I'm more intrigued by when SMC misspeaks then if Crusher or Smash did. And here atleast Smash acknowledged he misspoke, unlike SMC..

That being said x2, I'm also not feelign Smashmouth's defense of SMC.. I need to go back and check, but I don't think it started until SMC basically had 1 foot in the grave. I think if you imagine SMashmouth as scum, his play was perfect, he'd have had a good idea SMC was innocent, his defense of him was weak, and only began AFTER it was too late. Could've been entirely designed to position himself as innocent.

Not sure if old Smash is slick enough for this though