WIZARD OF OZ Mafia Game Thread

[slats]

This may be nothing, but I want to know if anybody else thinks there might be something up with this. Happened back on day 1, during the I28 vs JiF thing.

and in response to that -

If she knew who the scum team was, this could be her trying to signal to them. In retrospect, its was strange, imo not to think Toto was part of the scum team, but turns out he wasn't.

My reasoning was that in a 20 person game, 5 would be the "standard" number of mafia, but with the two wildcards a team of four made more sense. Nothing more than that.

Not to wifom much, but if I were scum, I would've been more interested in clouding the waters than giving an accurate account of what the scum had.

Didn't really see Toto as a "main character," and my hat's off to Steve for making the dog the symp.

Also, as far as the "signalling" goes - could be. But I think given her role as "magic finder" that she was likely in communication with them in some way. I know that's not a traditional symp role, but then neither was Toto.

[HessStation]

Dear JiFGod,

What should I do? Should I unvote Sharrow? I was gonna until he crawled on Verbs lap.

[Pac]

What exactly is leading you to that conclusion?

This is a big part of it.

When I die, i will become more powerful than you could ever know...

[Pac]

I don't even know what he's saying. Like JiF's posts I skim and watch the two tickle torture each other. Blah Blah Blah Blah. In the Battle of Blah I'm sure one of them is scum and the other just a dummy. One playing the look how smart I am bc I knew all along and the other backpedalling from his dummy. Who knows. I like Sharrow's last two posts though. Almost enough to unvote.

What part do you need me to repeat?

[HessStation]

Look here bottom line is this, with the quick lynch we didn't get much yesterday. But we know Lily was scum. And we know imo Sharrow and JiF wanted no part of lynching her...other than Sharrows half ass attempt at a L3 vote but quick jump at L2.

And Yes I eventually unvoted her too but that's bc I was dumb enough to believe what the hell DPR was spewing at the time. Sharrow unvoted on the premise of her fake reveal and her being at L2.

[HessStation]

What part do you need me to repeat?

Once is enough, thanks.

[Verbal]

Dear JiFGod,

What should I do? Should I unvote Sharrow? I was gonna until he crawled on Verbs lap.

You should have seen the reach-around I got first.

Regarding DPR:

I had a feeling he was one of the neutrals. I even PMed SMC because I needed to say it to somebody, hehe. He just acted like he was begging for a viewing, or in this case, begging for a recruitment. Hence why I figured killing him would be the lesser of 2 evils.

And I think Lily made the right play as a symp to try and fend off the town on DPR so that the mafia could get him. If this happened, we need to kill DPR. I'm just afraid he's still unlynchable and we'd waste another day.

Eh, **** it, I've gone and convinced myself.

Vote: DPR

[Verbal]

Look here bottom line is this, with the quick lynch we didn't get much yesterday. But we know Lily was scum. And we know imo Sharrow and JiF wanted no part of lynching her...other than Sharrows half ass attempt at a L3 vote but quick jump at L2.

And Yes I eventually unvoted her too but that's bc I was dumb enough to believe what the hell DPR was spewing at the time. Sharrow unvoted on the premise of her fake reveal and her being at L2.

The first step is admitting it. You'll feel better soon, I promise.

And I have to say that you make sense here. I'd be more inclined to lynch JiF than Sharrow, but that might be because he's got his hand on my ass. Dunno.

[SMC]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT--DAY 4

Sharrow (1) -- Hess

DPR (4) -- AVM, Pac, Runin, Verbal

DanX (2) -- BG, Slats

Verbal (1) -- Vicious

With 14 Ozites in the Castle, it takes 8 to lynch.

[Vicious89x]

Nice to see verbal back.

Unvote

[HessStation]

The first step is admitting it. You'll feel better soon, I promise.

And I have to say that you make sense here. I'd be more inclined to lynch JiF than Sharrow, but that might be because he's got his hand on my ass. Dunno.

Fine than UNVOTE VOTE JiF

One of them is dirt imo.

[Sharrow]

Look here bottom line is this, with the quick lynch we didn't get much yesterday. But we know Lily was scum. And we know imo Sharrow and JiF wanted no part of lynching her...other than Sharrows half ass attempt at a L3 vote but quick jump at L2.

And Yes I eventually unvoted her too but that's bc I was dumb enough to believe what the hell DPR was spewing at the time. Sharrow unvoted on the premise of her fake reveal and her being at L2.

And the fact that we had 20+ hours to work with and a handful of players who hadn't even commented on it. Anyway, I have no problem voting and keeping a vote on JIF if that's where we decide to go.

[Vicious89x]

And LOL @ you dissing my cases when all you are doing is voting inactives.

Another ROCK SOLID case brought to you by Vic.

There was no case. Ask verbal, he'll admit his absence.

Good try, again.

[Dan.]

Hi everyone, sorry I really expected to be able to post today. Things were much crazier than expected at work ... I will read like a madwoman to catch up.

[Dan.]

I'll comment in pieces as I read so I don't go crazy.

lol... ok, so she was a symp and revealing to signal to scum who the good witch was. Scum most likely knew of her existance, knew her role and would be the ones most anxious to lynch her for bonafides.. i reckon..

also, symps often turn up innocent hence the request to waste the cop investigation

This makes a lot more sense now. I wonder if there's anything to the people who wanted to lynch her before dpr (the day she revealed) and vice versa? I can't remember off the top of my head and could look at that if it hasn't already been done.

and if she's just a symp people who tried to slow down the lynch might have been hollywooding trying to make themselves look good thinking she was going to flip town..

hello JiF, Dan, Sharrow, and Smash with that strange post just a couple minutes ago.

Aren't symps usually revealed as "symp" in their death scene? Your theory still works the other way, though.

I also agree that she probably didn't have access to the scum thread, so the only way she could signal to her team was by saying something in the game thread. I was confused why it would be done in such an ostentatious way. I guess I'm still confused why she did it in such an ostentatious way, but it makes a little more sense now.

Teh Crusher

1345 Imafat****onadiet Lane

FairlyFat, VA 22032

I miss you. You make these games a million times more fun.

[Verbal]

Fine than UNVOTE VOTE JiF

One of them is dirt imo.

I was more likely thinking tomorrow. I've talking myself into DPR for today, unless something else comes around.

There was no case. Ask verbal, he'll admit his absence.

Good try, again.

True statement. I'm really thinking JiF for tomorrow now.

Ok, I'm off to the hotel. Hopefully I can figure out the net access in my room tonight, otherwise I'll be back tomorrow morning for more thoughts from your favorite inactive-turned-frequent-poster, Verbal. Toodles.

[JustInFudge]

There was no case. Ask verbal, he'll admit his absence.

Good try, again.

Right but you took a jab by saying " another rock solid case by JiF", yet you admit to not even having a case.

Whatever dude. Its comical at this point.

Vote DPR.

Dont think its worth the risk to keep him alive and I think he is lying.

[Pac]

Is Smash trapped in that other dimension with DPR?

I've never seen him this inactive in a game.

[JustInFudge]

Since I seem the 2nd best vote on everyone's list...can someone explain to me the case.

Right now it looks like the case is that I defended Lily. All I can say is, I was wrong. I know everyone that plays this game is a genius and I'm not nearly on the same level from an intellectual stand point, but I'm pretty certain everyone that has play this game has been wrong about a players alignment.

If I really really didnt want Lily lynched...now here's the wifom...wouldnt I have done some thing drastic, JiF like, to draw the attention away?

You guys make me laugh sometimes, but I love you all. Its the same **** every game nowadays and I would come to expect no less.

L<3VE

[Dan.]

Sad you're gone, CTM. I was strongly leaning townie on him for one reason in particular, but it's best to share that after the game.

Only 1 NK. Makes me think the siblings died together and that there wasnt any added power to Dorothy. So maybe the wwow did find DPR and DPR is a help to the town...but why havent we seen any results 2 nights in a row now? Maybe Dorothy just used 1 NK or maybe attempted a 2nd and failed...idk. Interesting none the less.

I thought the part about the siblings was obvious? I think I'm not understanding what you're saying here.

Long, considerate posts, first to jump off the Lily train when it picked up speed, was around the whole time but didn't go near voting her again.

VOTE Sharrow

I feel really good about Sharrow. I'm typically very suspicious of him, but I'm getting a vibe from him I've only gotten once before, and I like it. I may be mistaken, but he seems good to me at the moment.

I do. I think they could serve a different purpose in this game. Just reading through stuff that's my hunch. I think they could possibly be converted back and forth from town to scum sort of thing and maybe that's how we win in the end. As we dwindle on both sides who has who on their side...but maybe there's a second step to this too that we haven't gotten to yet. I don't know. Just thinking out loud. IMO I don't like the chance of losing another lynch on him right now.

The back-and-forth conversion idea is confusing to me because then I don't see the point of Lily outing DPR like that in the thread. I don't know why she'd risk all of that if her team would still have to fight back and forth with us over ownership of DPR. But there is always the possibility that there's a lot more going on we don't understand, you have a point there. I'm just having trouble reconciling Lily's actions with any of these theories.

I'm still limitedto three posts per game day, and the stingy mod won't give me rollover posts.

I still don't know who captured me.

I don't know if I'm unlynchable anymore or not. I asked the mod, but he wouldn't tell me.

I could not use my nightaction last night, and won't get it back until my captor dies and I am freed.

At this point, I'm guessing that Lily checked me for magic on N1, got her result, and in a very anti-town move, outed me. She probably got noticed by the mafia and recruited for it on N2.

Other than that, I only have my suspicions.

I find it very hard to believe that when limited to 3 posts, this is all you'd give the town.

I hear you. Two thoughts.

One, scum may not've known that the Good Witch was lynchproof, and would've preferred to lynch Lily and keep DPR alive.

Two, scum would've preferred to keep them both alive, and only jumped on DPR once he announced that he was lynchproof. We know Lily the symp jumped on late, scum might be found in there after DPR voted himself.

What do you think?

I think this is a good idea. Was anyone pushing a different train? I'd have to look back at the Two Days of DPR/Lily, all I remember is seeing CTM on Vicious but that was the more recent one.

Sorry to make these giant posts ... probably at least one more coming.

[Dan.]

Haha never mind on that last one, it was CTM and JiF. By the time I copied all the posts and was responding to the last one, my brain was fried.

[JustInFudge]

And this is the most lurky game I've ever seen. Every time I check 10 people are viewing and like 2 or 3 are posting.

[HessStation]

Since I seem the 2nd best vote on everyone's list...can someone explain to me the case.

Right now it looks like the case is that I defended Lily. All I can say is, I was wrong. I know everyone that plays this game is a genius and I'm not nearly on the same level from an intellectual stand point, but I'm pretty certain everyone that has play this game has been wrong about a players alignment.

If I really really didnt want Lily lynched...now here's the wifom...wouldnt I have done some thing drastic, JiF like, to draw the attention away?

You guys make me laugh sometimes, but I love you all. Its the same **** every game nowadays and I would come to expect no less.

L<3VE

No. Actually it's bc you do stuff like feel the need to defend yourself with one vote on you. You are also playing this game much different. Interesting how long winded you've been and much more into set up whathaveyou. Last game you blasted people for the same thing. You stated Pac, Vic and JVOR multiple times as scum with nothing to back it up. I would rather just lynch you to find out about those three since you haven't given much. When you self proclaim as the official scumhunter you really have to back it up, ya know. So far you took the easy wait out, if scum, latching on to the wrong vote day 1 with Integ and then latching onto Lily as town. Is it solid gold, no but better than anything right now imo.

[Integrity28]

And this is the most lurky game I've ever seen. Every time I check 10 people are viewing and like 2 or 3 are posting.

Lurk.

[slats]

Haha never mind on that last one, it was CTM and JiF. By the time I copied all the posts and was responding to the last one, my brain was fried.

I thought the next one might address the couple votes on you. Like mine.

I feel a little better about you after these couple posts, but I think my biggest problem is that you seem to be somewhat disengaged from the game. Playing it very safe and conservative, not ruffling any feathers, happy to say that you had a town vibe on a dead townie, or on Sharrow.

Let me ask you straight up, who are your top candidates for scum right now?

[JustInFudge]

No. Actually it's bc you do stuff like feel the need to defend yourself with one vote on you. You are also playing this game much different. Interesting how long winded you've been and much more into set up whathaveyou. Last game you blasted people for the same thing. You stated Pac, Vic and JVOR multiple times as scum with nothing to back it up. I would rather just lynch you to find out about those three since you haven't given much. When you self proclaim as the official scumhunter you really have to back it up, ya know. So far you took the easy wait out, if scum, latching on to the wrong vote day 1 with Integ and then latching onto Lily as town. Is it solid gold, no but better than anything right now imo.

Yeah, I only have one vote, but everyone said they'd lynch me or someone else. I think that gives me reason to defend.

Dont know what you mean about playing the game different.

Nobody is willing to vote Pac, Vic or JVOR. This is typical. And right now, I think DPR should go because he's a risk and then refocus on scum, like Pac or Vic. JVOR is just to round it out with 3, but I got my eye on him.

As far as the rest of your post, I've been off this game. 10 other people were off about 128 too. It happens sometimes.

[Vicious89x]

Right but you took a jab by saying " another rock solid case by JiF", yet you admit to not even having a case.

Whatever dude. Its comical at this point.

Vote DPR.

Dont think its worth the risk to keep him alive and I think he is lying.

I took a jab at you because you said my vote was "scummy" because I do this every game. I like conversation in a game. That's how I play. Banging on me for voting an inactive is like banging on you for being a snobby dick to everyone.

[Dan.]

I seem to have hit the section where people start prodding me.

Ok, so here's my thoughts. I'm at a point where personally I want to go a completely different direction than stuck with the same group of people that keep getting looked at. There's way too many outliers out there not even getting looked at and I'm seriously willing to bet that it's where most of our scum are hanging out.

That said, I want to go back to an earlier suspicion I voiced and have been watching since. I have to be honest, I have not liked Dan's play at all. I called her out on it earlier and pointed out the similarity to her play in the Star Wars game. She actually even conceded to it and moved on and I've noticed she's clearly made an effort to really avoid some of the things I pointed out that she was doing (e.g., way too much justification of her not being around). That said, she's one person in this game I feel like is being WAAAY too careful, which always catches my eye and is something I knew she even admitted to doing herself last time she was scum. She's playing the "unsure" card very heavily and is avoiding getting herself too entangled in any definitive position on anyone.

I feel like she's just trying to make sure not to upset anyone and it's something I recognize easily because frankly, it's a move I've certainly used myself as scum before. Perhaps I should've done the same last game so I didn't get double vig-killed. But for now, I think we've got scum hiding out and need to start trying to find them, and she's my best guess.

Vote: Dan X

I know I've only played one game as scum (not counting JVoR's superhero game, where I was still a man), but you're basing a LOT of this off of whatever happened in Star Wars. My busy schedule that game had nothing to do with me being scum; I sat out the next two games because of it. I was also in an odd and terrible position where I had been found the very first night and as a result was blocking my team's NK ability, and I hope that won't be the case if I'm scum again. Do you think you're seeing any of that, because I thought I was particularly mopey that game?

The rest just sounds like you're describing me as town, so there's not much for me to defend. If you read the Predators game thread (hehe, I don't remember, were you in that game?) I was really unsure of a lot of things. Especially after murdering Vicious. The only thing I was positive about that game was at the very end when I thought Pac was being shady. This game especially is one where it seems like talking too much about too many people could be very detrimental to the town, so I've been trying to be careful in that respect as well and am actually a little frustrated that others haven't gotten the memo. The "not upsetting anyone" was also the same thing Shutout said about me last game, too, so I don't know what people expect of me. It's a game, and I like (almost) all of you.

Went back and looked, this appears to be Lily's peak in the voting.

From there, Sharrow was the first to unvote.

Pac was the first to unvote and vote DPR.

DPR then unvoted Pac and voted himself.

Then Vic and Hess both unvoted Lily and Voted DPR.

Reading Dan's posts around that time, seems she's really cautious. Almost too cautious. She hemmed and hawed thru that mess and never cast a vote. What's your take on her play so far this game?

I was waiting for CTM to check in because I felt pretty strongly town on him, and he offers a good perspective on the game for me. We PMed a little bit after the last game, and I liked his thought process on certain things. It seemed like a good idea to give him a chance to check in, especially being that he's one of the more experienced players when it comes to situations involving role reveals. I was trying to figure out which one of them should be our top priority, and it still makes sense to me to have done that at the time.

After I finish reading through everything I'll need to look back at your breakdown of the voting shifts and timing because I think there could be some good information there.

You need an acting coach..

Vote DPR

Haha!

The unvoting and hemming and hawing is how dan plays as town. I know for a fact she is a townie at heart and dislikes lying in general.

That said she hasn't rung true townie to me like she normally does as town. The bigger issue with me than the hawing is she hasn't been suspicious of me like she normally is in these games and really she's always talking about how she can read her doppleganger and it's not there.

If i had to pick alignment i'd lean suspicious and wouldn't mind if she was the lynch.

The doppelganger reading ended several games ago, but it seems you haven't noticed. Of course I am suspicious of you as always, but come on. You of all people know the grief you gave me for hammering you in the last game. And as I said, I've also been trying not to go off on my own and prod as many people as normal because I don't think it's in the town's best interest to do that in this game. I actually thought Slats had been on my wavelength about this, at least definitely earlier in the game. It's a little tricky separating who seems scummy to me versus who seems neutral, but maybe I'm more concerned about that than I should be.

Regarding Dan, I agree with you guys. I got a real bad feeling about her when she was asking me what to do before the DPR lynch. Nobody ever asks me what to do, for good reason, lol. It was just strange.

Hehe, I was interested in what you thought because although I'm normally pretty suspicious of you, you were coming off as much more innocent than usual to me. I may be reading you wrong, though.

[JustInFudge]

I took a jab at you because you said my vote was "scummy" because I do this every game. I like conversation in a game. That's how I play. Banging on me for voting an inactive is like banging on you for being a snobby dick to everyone.

Yet it still happens.

[SMC]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT--DAY 4

JiF (1) -- Hess

DPR (5) -- AVM, Pac, Runin, Verbal, JiF

DanX (2) -- BG, Slats

With 14 Ozites in the Castle, it takes 8 to lynch.

[AVM]

My only concern with lynching DPR is possibility that he still can't be lynched.

I think this captivity/three post crap is total, 100% BS, and as a result I'm leaning very heavily towards him having been found by that little bitch Dorothy.

I'd hate to have another day end in no lynch, and have them take another shot at night. If the town really wants to really go there, though, I won't stand in the way. I'll even lend a hand if it stalls out.

I agree if he's unlynchable, it'd hurt. Logically though, I don't know how our situation gets better? The later in the game we get, the more dangerous it gets to risk it.

Which one is DPR?

[Vicious89x]

I agree if he's unlynchable, it'd hurt. Logically though, I don't know how our situation gets better? The later in the game we get, the more dangerous it gets to risk it.

You pretty much agree with everyone don't you? Your play seems familiar to me. Oh yea, like how I acted during star wars and being everyones best pal. Which JVoR used with great effect in LOST.

Squirm.

Vote:AVM

[Vicious89x]

Yet it still happens.

Jif being jif

[Vicious89x]

Is Smash trapped in that other dimension with DPR?

I've never seen him this inactive in a game.

Agreed. I attacked him last game on day 1 for it and he said it was because of nonsense. I think we are far past that.

[Dan.]

I like 3 options...no matter the situation. And whenever you are in a game and I dont really have a solid 3rd option...I like to choose you.

Hahaha. Good choice, he's often scum ... the big jerk.

My only concern with lynching DPR is possibility that he still can't be lynched.

I think this captivity/three post crap is total, 100% BS, and as a result I'm leaning very heavily towards him having been found by that little bitch Dorothy.

I'd hate to have another day end in no lynch, and have them take another shot at night. If the town really wants to really go there, though, I won't stand in the way. I'll even lend a hand if it stalls out.

I can see this concern, but it's really hard for me to be okay with a game where an unaligned character could have the ability to avoid lynching, get claimed by the scum, act so openly scummy and yet still be able to avoid lynching. Seems like a huge, huge advantage for the scum to have in that case. I could see him being unable to get lynched until claimed, or maybe have it be a one-time thing?

I thought the next one might address the couple votes on you. Like mine.

I feel a little better about you after these couple posts, but I think my biggest problem is that you seem to be somewhat disengaged from the game. Playing it very safe and conservative, not ruffling any feathers, happy to say that you had a town vibe on a dead townie, or on Sharrow.

Let me ask you straight up, who are your top candidates for scum right now?

Well DPR is practically guaranteed scum right now with the way he's acting, a couple of JiF's posts have felt out of the loop to me, off of gut maybe the poophead JVoR adn, Hess. Like I said I'd like to look back at some of the voting with the new knowledge we have about Lily, CTM, and DPR. Having just made it through these posts I'm going to take a bit more time to reread things. I had my eye on you early on because I wasn't sure if we were on the same wavelength or you were purposely lurking for other reasons, but your posts for the past day phase have felt much more strongly town to me. I have my suspicions on two people for the remaining neutral character, but like I said, maybe I shouldnt be worrying about that so much for right now. Guh.