Darrelle Revis Holdout: MERGED

[T0mShane]

How would this be torturing Tannenbaum?

Violating their secret oath of silence and doing a touchdown dance all the way to the podium en route to showing that they broke Tannenbaum, especially if they hung a huge number on him in negotiations.

[Sperm Edwards]

Call me gay and/or sycophantic, but I love it when Sperm Edwards talks contracts. Always great stuff.

We prefer to use the term vagina-seeking impaired.

[SouthernJet]

What radio station?

i am sure they are just parroting what this guy has said all day

[visajets]

I was gonna remain silent but had to chime in with the latest news posted. IF Revis signs on Wednesday night on Hard Knocks im quite sure he will be getting an added bonus from HBO $$$.

[Bleedin Green]

I'm betting on Cowlishaw here, and I'm betting the news came to him via the agents for Revis. Those guys are going to torture Tannenbaum with this for as long as they can.

I've kind of wondered this as a possibility myself. People keep talking about how he would have no sources inside the Jets, given he's from Dallas, but who says that's where it's coming from? As a former beat writer, it's possible he has sources inside of the agency considering they obviously have clients all throughout the league, which I'm sure has included Dallas players.

[visajets]

Sean Gilbert could be the leak. Im sure the bum needs $$$.

[SouthernJet]

Violating their secret oath of silence and doing a touchdown dance all the way to the podium en route to showing that they broke Tannenbaum, especially if they hung a huge number on him in negotiations.

We all know what really sealed the deal here (that and Tom's Glory Hole coupons to Revis camp)

http://www.jetnation.com/forums/index.php?/topic/90973-southernjets-open-letter-to-darrelle-revis/page__p__1641649__fromsearch__1#entry1641649

[flgreen]

What radio station?

Cowlishaw was on ESPN Radio at around 2:30 today. He just confirmed what he had already said

[gangreenman]

Violating their secret oath of silence and doing a touchdown dance all the way to the podium en route to showing that they broke Tannenbaum, especially if they hung a huge number on him in negotiations.

If that was their intention though they would make it more clear and to more sources that a deal is imminent. Telling Tim Cowlishaw and nobody else would seem like a strange move to me if that were truly their intentions.

[SouthernJet]

If the Jets give him that $25-30M bonus you were offering, I think the deal will be done shortly, too.

It has to be around 20, dont ya think?

[gangreenman]

It has to be around 20, dont ya think?

Darelle Revis is insulted by the latest offer. Negotiations are back to a standstill.

[slats]

It has to be around 20, dont ya think?

It's going to be interesting to see what Mangold gets. He was really in a strong position to say, "give me a big bonus now, or you can bid for my services like everyone else next year."

Revis doesn't have that leverage. If Mangold's deal comes back looking like D'Brick's, I'd have to say that the Jets aren't handing out $20M bonuses to anyone. I think $15M up front could get a deal done, provided the right number of skill guarantees and makable incentives are in there. But looking at D'Brick's deal alone -knowing that Brick wasn't a holdout and that Revis is a threat to hold out again next week- I can't imagine them offering much in signing bonus money at all.

[slats]

Revis is definitely in a little different boat because a little bit of lost speed or quickness matters a whole lot more for his game than any OLman's. But ultimately I think no because he's just greedier. If he didn't want the demands you claim to be skeptical about, someone from his side would have denied it long ago because it makes him look bad.

Thank you. I've been saying that since this holdout began. Someone might listen to you.

I remember JetsBabe posting something about his agents saying that if the Jets offered 10/$120, he would've signed already. Don't know if there's any truth to that. The big thing that came out of Revis' camp before the blackout was that the Jets weren't offering a dime of guaranteed money. I've felt all along that if the Jets were willing to talk bonus at the same time they discussed total compensation that a deal would get done that much quicker.

[jgb]

It's going to be interesting to see what Mangold gets. He was really in a strong position to say, "give me a big bonus now, or you can bid for my services like everyone else next year."

Revis doesn't have that leverage. If Mangold's deal comes back looking like D'Brick's, I'd have to say that the Jets aren't handing out $20M bonuses to anyone. I think $15M up front could get a deal done, provided the right number of skill guarantees and makable incentives are in there. But looking at D'Brick's deal alone -knowing that Brick wasn't a holdout and that Revis is a threat to hold out again next week- I can't imagine them offering much in signing bonus money at all.

i am just so worn out from all of this stuff - i hope we get everyone back in the fold and happy without mortgaging too much of our future.

[Klecko73isGod]

Violating their secret oath of silence and doing a touchdown dance all the way to the podium en route to showing that they broke Tannenbaum, especially if they hung a huge number on him in negotiations.

Tom, you just live in a strange fantasy world when it comes to Tannenbaum. Did he **** your mother or something?

[jgb]

Thank you. I've been saying that since this holdout began. Someone might listen to you.

I remember JetsBabe posting something about his agents saying that if the Jets offered 10/$120, he would've signed already. Don't know if there's any truth to that. The big thing that came out of Revis' camp before the blackout was that the Jets weren't offering a dime of guaranteed money. I've felt all along that if the Jets were willing to talk bonus at the same time they discussed total compensation that a deal would get done that much quicker.

i think if it comes down to it revis will take skill guarantee and take out a policy against injury.

[T0mShane]

Tom, you just live in a strange fantasy world when it comes to Tannenbaum. Did he **** your mother or something?

I am admittedly harsh on Tannenbaum. It's because I (probably unfairly) see him as an extension of the Bradway Era. I was not a fan of promoting a cap guy who had no experience in the scouting/football end of the operation. That said, he's put together a talented squad that will hopefully make me STFU. If the Jets win it this year, he can **** my mother all he wants.

[jussssstme]

What radio station?

Most likely the 1050ESPN where Cowlishaw was on at 2:25 today repeating everything we already knew.

[jgb]

I am admittedly harsh on Tannenbaum. It's because I (probably unfairly) see him as an extension of the Bradway Era. I was not a fan of promoting a cap guy who had no experience in the scouting/football end of the operation. That said, he's put together a talented squad that will hopefully make me STFU. If the Jets win it this year, he can **** my mother all he wants.

i *believe* bradway is still ultimately responsible for personnel evaluations. tanny is just the bagman. i kind of like having the roles seperated to prevent a talent guy from overpaying due to mancrush.

[visajets]

After Wednesday night what are we all gonna argue about and discuss?

[Sperm Edwards]

Thank you. I've been saying that since this holdout began. Someone might listen to you.

I remember JetsBabe posting something about his agents saying that if the Jets offered 10/$120, he would've signed already. Don't know if there's any truth to that. The big thing that came out of Revis' camp before the blackout was that the Jets weren't offering a dime of guaranteed money. I've felt all along that if the Jets were willing to talk bonus at the same time they discussed total compensation that a deal would get done that much quicker.

Well, you feeling it doesn't make it so. Other than JB, every other hint to come out, including from Revis himself, says that he has a line drawn in the sand and it ain't $12M. Adding Cromartie and Wilson probably helped negotiations more than anything, bad as they are and have been with them.

Also, while I'm sure Tannenbaum did say the Jets would address his contract, that he's outplaying his rookie deal, and that Revis is using that as a holdout reason, I have little doubt that Revis would be holding out no matter what. The idea that he's only holding out because of a comment Tannenbaum said is a bunch of garbage. So when I see tactics like that and faking injuries employed, I tend to believe everything out of his mouth is garbage.

But all that aside, I've said a number of times that I understand Revis's position. If I were in his position I might hold out for a bit more this year. He has a talent that will allow him to get paid tens of millions of dollars on his next deal and doesn't want to risk that on this season for "only" an additional $1M over what he's already been paid. So I understand that and even sympathize with it. But to hold out and demand that his entire deal be torn up and replaced with one averaging $16.2M per year or whatever it is, is something I am not sympathetic to.

There is a difference between the Jets not yet offering a dime of guaranteed money as they try to get the length and total established first, and the Jets refusing to pay him a dime of guaranteed money. I believe the Jets position is the former, as they have claimed. If Revis isn't going to accept a deal that doesn't total $16M per season, then it is folly to make offers of any guarantees.

I think it's a bad way for a team to operate, to pay high salaries to rookies even if they're busts (Gholston) or unspectacular early-on (B.Thomas, DRob), and if you strike oil and they're better than expected then pay them even more. The lower amount on a rookie deal is the team's break for (a) taking a chance on the player in the first place, ( coaching up and paying the player during the time before he was great, and © easing the overall cost over a career. If they're expected to just break the bank on everyone outplaying his rookie contract, then drafting anyone is stupid. Just trade picks for established players; by the time a draft pick is established he's going to expect superstar money immediately and at least you get a sure thing out of a veteran.

If you agree that's a dumb strategy, as most would, then you make your rookies play out their contracts - at least until they have played 4-5 years under that deal - because those are the only relative bargain star players a team is going to get. Absent a bunch of good or star players who turn out to be bargains, a team isn't winning anything. You can't have 8 or 10 mega-paid players and a bunch of league-minimum garbage other than that.

[Sperm Edwards]

I am admittedly harsh on Tannenbaum. It's because I (probably unfairly) see him as an extension of the Bradway Era. I was not a fan of promoting a cap guy who had no experience in the scouting/football end of the operation. That said, he's put together a talented squad that will hopefully make me STFU. If the Jets win it this year, he can **** my mother all he wants.

How come "blow" doesn't get past the language filter for your account? I'll have Max look into it.

[ECURB]

HBO is a subscription based service. No ones signing up for Hardknocks to watch old news.

Triple viewership means nothing to HBO. They are not running ads.

Sorry but even a simpleton like myself knows that could not be further from the truth.

[T0mShane]

How come "blow" doesn't get past the language filter for your account? I'll have Max look into it.

Max keeps me on a short leash, that bastard.

[LionelRichie]

I am admittedly harsh on Tannenbaum. It's because I (probably unfairly) see him as an extension of the Bradway Era. I was not a fan of promoting a cap guy who had no experience in the scouting/football end of the operation. That said, he's put together a talented squad that will hopefully make me STFU. If the Jets win it this year, he can **** my mother all he wants.

Love him or hate him Tannenbaum has aggressively built one of the best Jets teams of my lifetime. The one thing I like about Tannenbaum is that he isn't afraid to go for it. Even the Favre move was ballsy.

Bradway was a big pussy when it came to making hard decisions which is where the cap crippling Curtis Martin contract came from. I don't see any real comparison between the 2 of them.

[CTM]

Glauber reporting that Revis is "demanding" 10 years/$162 million.... Jets have offered as much as 10/$122m.

We'll have to wait and see who has the real scoop here.

Make his last 2 years for 30M each.. then in reeality he's getting an 8 year 100M contract

[Jetsfan80]

Max keeps me on a short leash, that bastard.

So you're saying there are certain words that get censored only when you post them.

[THE ILK]

So you're saying there are certain words that get censored only when you post them.

If that is possible, his posts should look like this: * **** **** ** ****** ***** **** *** ** **** ********* ***** ***** *** *****

[slats]

There is a difference between the Jets not yet offering a dime of guaranteed money as they try to get the length and total established first, and the Jets refusing to pay him a dime of guaranteed money. I believe the Jets position is the former, as they have claimed. If Revis isn't going to accept a deal that doesn't total $16M per season, then it is folly to make offers of any guarantees.

I think you're smart enough to realize we're not very far apart here at all. Where we differ is that I continue to believe that 10/$160 is a negotiating stance (however hard that stance may be), and that he will ultimately either sign for less or sign a deal with a bloated bullsh*t backend. And that if the Jets are interested in getting him signed, they should be willing to talk bonus money. As in, we'll give you $5M up front on your $160M pipe dream with the unlikely to ever be earned last couple of years, or we can give you $20M up front on a deal in the $120M range that you should really be pretty happy with. They can hammer out from there. By refusing to talk guarantees, they're holding up the process. Offering real bonus money is the best way to get Revis off his $16M/per figure, IMHO.

Revis and his agents seem to get all the blame around here, but Tannenbaum's taking a hard line of his own. Both sides need to soften to get a deal in place.

I think it's a bad way for a team to operate, to pay high salaries to rookies even if they're busts (Gholston) or unspectacular early-on (B.Thomas, DRob), and if you strike oil and they're better than expected then pay them even more. The lower amount on a rookie deal is the team's break for (a) taking a chance on the player in the first place, ( coaching up and paying the player during the time before he was great, and © easing the overall cost over a career. If they're expected to just break the bank on everyone outplaying his rookie contract, then drafting anyone is stupid. Just trade picks for established players; by the time a draft pick is established he's going to expect superstar money immediately and at least you get a sure thing out of a veteran.

If you agree that's a dumb strategy, as most would, then you make your rookies play out their contracts - at least until they have played 4-5 years under that deal - because those are the only relative bargain star players a team is going to get. Absent a bunch of good or star players who turn out to be bargains, a team isn't winning anything. You can't have 8 or 10 mega-paid players and a bunch of league-minimum garbage other than that.

The new CBA will have a rookie cap, and that's a good thing I think for the veterans as well as the owners (provided some of that money makes it onto veteran deals). I think the union likes the lack of a rookie cap because it inflates deals like Bradford's that give guys like Manning and Brady some serious leverage in their talks, but I think the rookie cap could lead to an actual middle class in the NFL. That could be optimism on my part.

And I certainly agree on the benefits of drafting and paying your players those lower rookie salaries where they apply - from the management standpoint. For the players, I'll always support their right to holdout - even if I don't always think they should be paid! It's the only recourse they have in a bad system. You spelled out where Revis it at contractually - worth $10's of million$, under contract for less than $1M. Rarely is a young player so far along talent-wise that he's that underpaid, and I have no issue with paying that guy when he comes along.

[LionelRichie]

Rarely is a young player so far along talent-wise that he's that underpaid, and I have no issue with paying that guy when he comes along.

He is basically in the same boat as Chris Johnson, except the shelf-life of a running back is much less than a CB. The same Chris Johnson who is about to take the field for a preseason game.

Regarding the contract: I think the Jets would be willing to give Revis a huge signing bonus if the CBA allowed them recover it should Revis holdout at some point in the future. He has proven that a contract means nothing to him so the Jets are gun shy when it comes to doling out upfront $$ to him.

[Jbro22]

Sorry but even a simpleton like myself knows that could not be further from the truth.

Its very simple. Cash rules the world. Outside of the Madden 11 banners draped around the field HBO isn't making anything on advertising. It's a subscription based service. Meaning there's no commercials. Ratings are useless. So unless HBO triples it's subscriptions the day of this Revis nonsense they aren't making anymore money than they would have.

It's not rocket science.

[war ensemble]

Its very simple. Cash rules the world. Outside of the Madden 11 banners draped around the field HBO isn't making anything on advertising. It's a subscription based service. Meaning there's no commercials. Ratings are useless. So unless HBO triples it's subscriptions the day of this Revis nonsense they aren't making anymore money than they would have.

It's not rocket science.

You know what, I think HBO should just play static all the time. I mean, it would be cheaper than producing shows the whole time. The ratings don't matter and they barely make any money on advertising...why not?

[gangreenman]

You know what, I think HBO should just play static all the time. I mean, it would be cheaper than producing shows the whole time. The ratings don't matter and they barely make any money on advertising...why not?

They would lose a lot of subscribers. Thats where all the revenue comes from for HBO, subscriptions.

[Jbro22]

You know what, I think HBO should just play static all the time. I mean, it would be cheaper than producing shows the whole time. The ratings don't matter and they barely make any money on advertising...why not?

I don't know if your agreeing or disagreeing but I'm pretty sure HBO isn't even rated.

[Jbro22]

Just checked, it is rated but can't understand why.