Imagine this D with Abraham

[redman81]

Yeah Jon Abe was hurt at different times during his Jets years, but he has remained pretty healthy lately and is still a beast. Imagine if we could use Abe, Pouha, Pace, and I guess Ellis as our 4 man rush. Pace is def have a weak year, but him and Abe on opposite sides would be what we should've had if some jack*ss no.6 pick lived up to his billing. I'm getting more pissed about how much of a bust he is everytime I watch Abraham rip by his guy 1 on 1. Sorry just needed to vent about that. Let me know what you think.

[Jetlag]

Yeah Jon Abe was hurt at different times during his Jets years, but he has remained pretty healthy lately and is still a beast. Imagine if we could use Abe, Pouha, Pace, and I guess Ellis as our 4 man rush. Pace is def have a weak year, but him and Abe on opposite sides would be what we should've had if some jack*ss no.6 pick lived up to his billing. I'm getting more pissed about how much of a bust he is everytime I watch Abraham rip by his guy 1 on 1. Sorry just needed to vent about that. Let me know what you think.

I think I love our HOF center more.

[Jetsfan80]

As talented as he was he's always been a pussy to me. I remember the 2004 playoffs when Shaun Ellis willed his way onto the field with a bum ankle and played a big role in beating the Chargers and almost knocking off the Steelers. Meanwhile, John Abraham with a supposed knee injury was jumping around like a little kid.....on the bench.

Obviously you don't want to play injured, but I think Ellis was playing injured during that postseason. Abraham wouldn't even play HURT, let alone injured. When healthy and on the field he's a beast, and we could use him this season more than ever. However, I just don't think he's worth the pricetag attached to him.

[Jetsfan80]

And just as I submitted the above post, Abraham makes an unreal play and picks off his own deflection. Unbelievable.

[Ken Schroy]

As I'm posting this, he just made a great play, but he was never there for the Jets. It was sickening. He had stomach aches, etc. and would sit out playoff games.

[madmikeisback]

He could easily sit out a playoff game just as easily as he is wrecking this game.

[Klecko73isGod]

I think I love our HOF center more.

FTW.

end thread.

[redman81]

As talented as he was he's always been a pussy to me. I remember the 2004 playoffs when Shaun Ellis willed his way onto the field with a bum ankle and played a big role in beating the Chargers and almost knocking off the Steelers. Meanwhile, John Abraham with a supposed knee injury was jumping around like a little kid.....on the bench.

Obviously you don't want to play injured, but I think Ellis was playing injured during that postseason. Abraham wouldn't even play HURT, let alone injured. When healthy and on the field he's a beast, and we could use him this season more than ever. However, I just don't think he's worth the pricetag attached to him.

It's hard to tell with that stuff when we aren't there to know all the facts. He could be able to move around on it on the sidelines and look ok, but know he can't move on it and be able to help the team on the field. Or it could be exactly like you said, that he just p*ssied out. All I know is the way he has played past few years, and when healthy with Jets, is something I would kill for right now. Thought Pace would replace that, but he just doesn't seem to have the moves Abe( just picked off Brees btw) has. I know none of this matters, but just wanted to get this off my mind.

[Jetsfan80]

It's hard to tell with that stuff when we aren't there to know all the facts. He could be able to move around on it on the sidelines and look ok, but know he can't move on it and be able to help the team on the field. Or it could be exactly like you said, that he just p*ssied out. All I know is the way he has played past few years, and when healthy with Jets, is something I would kill for right now. Thought Pace would replace that, but he just doesn't seem to have the moves Abe( just picked off Brees btw) has. I know none of this matters, but just wanted to get this off my mind.

He just never seemed to be able to stay on the field as a Jet. Should I be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt? Maybe. Is it possible he was just injury prone? Sure. But when guys are getting hurt as often as he did, I tend to think they're a pussy. Sometimes you have to play through pain, and it never seemed like he was willing to do that.

[CTM]

I think I love our HOF center more.

Center's positiona value is zlmost zilch compared to an edge rusher

[DireJet38]

Pretty sure he had a drinking problem in NY.

Looks like he cleaned that up.

Being under the microscope of Jets fans, I don't blame him for imbibing.

[Jetlag]

Center's positiona value is zlmost zilch compared to an edge rusher

So you would rather have John Abraham on this team over Nick Mangold?

[Jetsfan80]

Center's positiona value is zlmost zilch compared to an edge rusher

Maybe so, but Mangold is so far ahead of the rest of the league at the position of center that it makes a difference. Abraham is not the best in the NFL at his position.

[RutgersJetFan]

Center's positiona value is zlmost zilch compared to an edge rusher

Obviously. QB is the only position more valuable (with LT and DT being equal), and interior lineman have the lowest positional value there is. No way he would have lasted with Mangini though. Better we got something high for him.

[jetfan718]

The real question should be, who are we going to add to our defense in the off-season either through FA or the draft that can be our John Abraham???..We need a game wrecker on our D!!!

[Darth Vader]

Center's positiona value is zlmost zilch compared to an edge rusher

seriously. and mangold is good, yes, but HOF? don't know about that...

it was an incredible recouping of value for a player that clearly didnt want to be here, and didnt work here. but the other points are true notwithstanding.

[Klecko73isGod]

The real question should be, who are we going to add to our defense in the off-season either through FA or the draft that can be our John Abraham???..We need a game wrecker on our D!!!

someone mentioned something a few weeks back about cameron wake being a FA. did i dream that or is it true? if it is true will he be an RFA or UFA?

[Darth Vader]

someone mentioned something a few weeks back about cameron wake being a FA. did i dream that or is it true? if it is true will he be an RFA or UFA?

i dunno kleck, but i would give up major value to get him if was a RFA or franchised, and I would do the same for woodley.

u won't find a player in the draft that can contribute what we need -- right away. A draft pick needs a year seasoning usually to do what we need -- make an impact.

and forget a lower tier FA. We need to affect the bottomline.

[jason423]

Obviously. QB is the only position more valuable (with LT and DT being equal), and interior lineman have the lowest positional value there is. No way he would have lasted with Mangini though. Better we got something high for him.

Agreed. The fans would have hated it had he stayed. His first year in Atlanta he was a no show that got hurt. He also plays in a dome on a very fast surface and gets that extra game in NO as well. Around 65% of his sacks in his big sack years are all in the domes.

[jason423]

someone mentioned something a few weeks back about cameron wake being a FA. did i dream that or is it true? if it is true will he be an RFA or UFA?

Wake is under contract thru 2012. He will likely be extended this offseason once they get the CBA sorted out and the team gets a new coach.

[Jetsfan80]

Wake is under contract thru 2012. He will likely be extended this offseason once they get the CBA sorted out and the team gets a new coach.

Damn you and your facts.

[#27TheDominator]

As talented as he was he's always been a pussy to me. I remember the 2004 playoffs when Shaun Ellis willed his way onto the field with a bum ankle and played a big role in beating the Chargers and almost knocking off the Steelers. Meanwhile, John Abraham with a supposed knee injury was jumping around like a little kid.....on the bench.

Obviously you don't want to play injured, but I think Ellis was playing injured during that postseason. Abraham wouldn't even play HURT, let alone injured. When healthy and on the field he's a beast, and we could use him this season more than ever. However, I just don't think he's worth the pricetag attached to him.

That 2004 story was a crock of sh*t. I blame the press and Herm for that perception. You hate him because the press painted him as putting his contract over the team. I remember watching him in practice footage that week and the guy could barely come out of the 3 point stance. It was obvious that he wasn't going to play, but Herm kept saying he was a game time decision. He had some drinking problems early on and that stuck with him, but people acted like he was begging out of games. He had issues with a sports hernia and had 7-8 surgeries to correct it. Those things are a bitch to heal.

FWIW, here are his comments about 2004:

A reporter asked me a question," Abraham said. "He asked me if my contract had anything to do with me not playing. I told him you think about that stuff. But that it wasn't the big deal. The big deal was to get back healthy for the team. The next day it was all over the place that I didn't want to play. The reality is I went to Dr. (James) Andrews the week before the game to see if I could play, and he told me no. The Jets then told me they knew I wasn't playing, but that they would list me as probable so people could gameplan for me. I didn't know it would all come back and backfire on me. Otherwise, I would have told them just list me as out."

JAbe

[Jetlag]

seriously. and mangold is good, yes, but HOF? don't know about that...

it was an incredible recouping of value for a player that clearly didnt want to be here, and didnt work here. but the other points are true notwithstanding.

If he stays healthy he's good enough to go to 12+ straight Pro-Bowls. He'll be getting his bust in Canton.

[The Crusher]

He could easily sit out a playoff game just as easily as he is wrecking this game.

100% here when we traded him and loved getting Mangold. Yet Abe looks like King Freaking Kong next to Vernon Gholston. So can't say it doesn't hurt just a little.

[4HCrew]

It was not until Johnny A got to Atlanta that he started to take care of his body (i.e. working out) and became less involved in the nightlife..he admitted that much on Sirius NFL Radio a while back. He was always a tremendous player but for the Jets he never seemed to come up big when the team needed him the most.

[Smashmouth]

Center's positiona value is zlmost zilch compared to an edge rusher

Well we dont run a 4 -3 defense either. I think its time we got rid of the Thomas/Pace OLB tandem and replaced them with 2 young studs with speed. Pace and Thomas have been terrible this year, Thomas started out strong and then totally faded and Pace has had one good game all year. Our Defense needs 3 big goons up front and very fast LB's to be effective similar to the bears of 85 and the Giants of 86 Im not asking for that type of talent because thats rare but thats the mold we need to look at. Not a John Abe type.

[Matt39]

The guy flat out refused to play at Pittsburgh. Lets not go waxing poetic about Abraham now.

The Falcons are the Chargers of the NFC anyway.

[CTM]

Well we dont run a 4 -3 defense either. I think its time we got rid of the Thomas/Pace OLB tandem and replaced them with 2 young studs with speed. Pace and Thomas have been terrible this year, Thomas started out strong and then totally faded and Pace has had one good game all year. Our Defense needs 3 big goons up front and very fast LB's to be effective similar to the bears of 85 and the Giants of 86 Im not asking for that type of talent because thats rare but thats the mold we need to look at. Not a John Abe type.

John abe is fast..

just saying..

[Smashmouth]

John abe is fast..

just saying..

No doubt but im not sure if he fits. Pace and Thomas are fast but have not been efffective in a lot of areas in our defense Pace has been nearly non existent.They are way too tall to actully be agile. The type of linebacker we need is a Farrior /Harrison type (compact and Agile) to be effective in both the passrush and dealing with screens and such. I still think Harris is our best pass rusher but weve been rushing him up the middle way too much and teams are picking it up easily I would not mind seeing Harris on the edge a bit more hes that Farrior/Harrison type

[bitonti]

He could easily sit out a playoff game just as easily as he is wrecking this game.

+1 John Abraham is a regular season beast and a playoff ghost. also he's a pure 4-3 player.

[The Crusher]

John abe is fast..

just saying..

His first step is sick.

[The Crusher]

It was not until Johnny A got to Atlanta that he started to take care of his body (i.e. working out) and became less involved in the nightlife..he admitted that much on Sirius NFL Radio a while back. He was always a tremendous player but for the Jets he never seemed to come up big when the team needed him the most.

Good point. He did seem to become more engaged when he got to Atlanta. When he was here he was basically DE version of

Randy Moss. "Play when I wanna".

[serphnx]

Forget JAbe, what about this defense with a healthy and primed Jenkins?

We're going to need pass rushers but we need an NT even more. Ngata is a huge reason for the Ravens continued success.

[SMC]

Abe is a tremendous DE when he's on the field and wants it. As Bit mentioned, even when the Falcons went to the postseason 2 yrs ago Abe was a non-factor. It wasn't an abberation with the Jets.

Also, did you guys notice that on the Saints last possession (which sealed the game) Abe was on the sidelines?

Why? Because Mike Smith thought the Saints were going to try to run out the clock so he put his best run defenders in. That's quite damning that Abe would be on the bench. Peyton saw that and took advantage by having Brees throw. Game over.

Honestly, Abe isn't worth the money because (1) his injury history, (2) his tank job in big games, and (3) him being utterly useless against the run.

Abe has HOF ability by a HOS heart.

[Smashmouth]

Abe is a tremendous DE when he's on the field and wants it. As Bit mentioned, even when the Falcons went to the postseason 2 yrs ago Abe was a non-factor. It wasn't an abberation with the Jets.

Also, did you guys notice that on the Saints last possession (which sealed the game) Abe was on the sidelines?

Why? Because Mike Smith thought the Saints were going to try to run out the clock so he put his best run defenders in. That's quite damning that Abe would be on the bench. Peyton saw that and took advantage by having Brees throw. Game over.

Honestly, Abe isn't worth the money because (1) his injury history, (2) his tank job in big games, and (3) him being utterly useless against the run.

Abe has HOF ability by a HOS heart.

Thats about as good as he can be discribed .