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Jordan Matthews May Land With Jets


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#26 SoFlaJets

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 10:41 AM

also doubtful that a pick at 18 would or rd 2 would be a stud number one. the Jets could try to get lucky like Mike Wallace and take a speedster in rd 2 or 3 that turns into a number one (given time) but lets be real there isn't a calvin in this draft and if there was, the Jets are about 15 slots away from drafting him. 

Matt, do you see the Jets going offense or defense in round 1? Would they be in the slot to be able to grab one of those QBs coming out? Or do you see them doing what they always do, you know taking the best defensive lineman or DE/LBer they can find or the best CB available? I mean this IS the Jets, and this IS the Jets with Rex Ryan for the head coach...


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#27 bitonti

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 10:49 AM

Matt, do you see the Jets going offense or defense in round 1? Would they be in the slot to be able to grab one of those QBs coming out? Or do you see them doing what they always do, you know taking the best defensive lineman or DE/LBer they can find or the best CB available? I mean this IS the Jets, and this IS the Jets with Rex Ryan for the head coach...

 

I dont think they will go QB earlier than rd 3. 

 

best available freak and yes it could be a OLB or CB. dont everyone all panic if it happens. 

 

the WR argument is interesting and i definitely see the need; but the value might not line up. i.e. if the big names are gone, Idzik isn't going to reach

 

as for TE in rd 1 this has been a historically terrible pick for this franchise: Keller, Becht, Brady, Mitchell etc. I don't know why the Jets can't draft a TE in rd 1 but they can't. those who ignore the mistakes of history are doomed to repeat them. 


Edited by bitonti, 22 January 2014 - 10:53 AM.

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#28 Obrien2Toon

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 11:08 AM

by the time May rolls around, WR won't be the biggest need on this team.

also remember Idzik had 2 first round picks last year, both were physical freaks

BFA in rd 1, best freak available

matthews in rd 2 or 3, fair enough. but there probably will be an FA signing for the WR.

I wouldn't call either Milliner or Richardson physical freaks. They were both highly skilled, highly productive players.

Mathews fits that perfectly. Behind Watkins, he'd be my next WR, the ceiling isn't as high, but I don't see much downside to him. He's like an anti Stephen Hill.

I agree with you though I wouldn't mind BAP player here, we need so much, it's not a time to fill needs. But there's a big difference between next best physical freak and BAP.

So yes if by some miracle Barr or Mack fall to us, I would prefer them over Mathews.

Edited by Obrien2Toon, 22 January 2014 - 11:14 AM.

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#29 JiF

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 11:24 AM

I wouldn't call either Milliner or Richardson physical freaks. They were both highly skilled, highly productive players.

Mathews fits that perfectly. Behind Watkins, he'd be my next WR, the ceiling isn't as high, but I don't see much downside to him. He's like an anti Stephen Hill.

I agree with you though I wouldn't mind BAP player here, we need so much, it's not a time to fill needs. But there's a big difference between next best physical freak and BAP.

So yes if by some miracle Barr or Mack fall to us, I would prefer them over Mathews.

 

They're both definitely physical freaks...have you seen the sports science on Milliner?


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#30 joewillie78

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 11:58 AM

You would take Mathews at 18? If Ebron is gone why not Amaro? He seems to be rated higher across the boards.

Ideally, I would want him in the 2nd, but I think he is long gone by the time the Jets turn comes around in the 2nd round.


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#31 SenorGato

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 12:25 PM

I would love him in the 2nd.

Edit...make it third, but probably still would be fine in the second...probably.

Edited by SenorGato, 22 January 2014 - 01:51 PM.

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#32 LionelRichie

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 12:55 PM


 

as for TE in rd 1 this has been a historically terrible pick for this franchise: Keller, Becht, Brady, Mitchell etc. I don't know why the Jets can't draft a TE in rd 1 but they can't. those who ignore the mistakes of history are doomed to repeat them. 

 

the counter to that is that the Jets are due....as a long suffering fan I can tell you that we are due for a lot of things.  

 

I don't know much about Matthews but if can get off the line in press coverage AND catch the ball then sign me up because none of the other wr's can.  


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#33 New York Mick

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 01:05 PM

He's a smaller slower version of Benji.
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#34 Stonehands

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 03:46 PM

I dont think they will go QB earlier than rd 3. 

 

best available freak and yes it could be a OLB or CB. dont everyone all panic if it happens. 

 

the WR argument is interesting and i definitely see the need; but the value might not line up. i.e. if the big names are gone, Idzik isn't going to reach

 

as for TE in rd 1 this has been a historically terrible pick for this franchise: Keller, Becht, Brady, Mitchell etc. I don't know why the Jets can't draft a TE in rd 1 but they can't. those who ignore the mistakes of history are doomed to repeat them. 

 

The Jets haven't done too great historically with wide receivers in the second round, either.


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#35 Lupz27

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 04:05 PM

He's a smaller slower version of Benji.


You forgot Harding worker, smarter, and driven then Benji, where does that leave the two? Talent doesn't always trump hard working, Talent, AND Hard Working does, but there is a lot to be said about Benji off the field.
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#36 ozzieny

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 04:17 PM

also doubtful that a pick at 18 would or rd 2 would be a stud number one. the Jets could try to get lucky like Mike Wallace and take a speedster in rd 2 or 3 that turns into a number one (given time) but lets be real there isn't a calvin in this draft and if there was, the Jets are about 15 slots away from drafting him. 

MIke Wallace? Lucky? Ask the Fins if they could get their money back.  Wallace was terrible last year. Jets already tried the speedster thing and it backfired - Stephen Hill BUST  


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#37 BroadwayJoe12

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 05:00 PM

MIke Wallace? Lucky? Ask the Fins if they could get their money back.  Wallace was terrible last year. Jets already tried the speedster thing and it backfired - Stephen Hill BUST  

 

Pitt drafted Wallace in the third round where he averaged 1000 yards and 8 tds in his four years with them and was routinely one of the best deep threats in the entire game.  That is the definition of getting lucky.  Miami might not like the contract they gave him, but he still put up over 900 yards and 5 tds this year with a QB who couldn't throw the deep ball.  

 

So by your logic, we should never draft a receiver with speed, because some fast receivers don't pan out?? gotcha.


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#38 bitonti

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 05:59 PM

The Jets haven't done too great historically with wide receivers in the second round, either.

 

MIke Wallace? Lucky? Ask the Fins if they could get their money back.  Wallace was terrible last year. Jets already tried the speedster thing and it backfired - Stephen Hill BUST  

 

ok yeah Mike Wallace in Pittsburgh lucky. Altho he was very dangerous in Miami toward the end of the year, Dee Milliner kinda shut him down 

it's also early to call Stephen Hill a bust. When Idzik says in the EOY press conference that the upgrades could be on the roster, it's guys like Stephen Hill he's probably thinking about. 

 

my problem with predicting the Jets taking a WR in rd 1 is only Sammy Watkins fits into the freak mold. and he's not getting close to 18 if he runs like he can run. It's unclear that Lee or Evans will be fast in shorts. And if they are they could be gone at 18. 

 

if Ebron runs that 4.4 he's a poor mans Vernon Davis and yes worth the pick at 18. Not sure Amero comes close to that sort of freak run. 

 

It's obvious that the team needs weapons but last year they needed weapons too and Idzik went with trading for RB and street free agents for the WR. 

 

the JEts at 18 are gonna sit back and take the best player it could even be an OT if they dont bring back Austin Howard.


Edited by bitonti, 22 January 2014 - 06:02 PM.

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#39 ozzieny

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 06:01 PM

Pitt drafted Wallace in the third round where he averaged 1000 yards and 8 tds in his four years with them and was routinely one of the best deep threats in the entire game.  That is the definition of getting lucky.  Miami might not like the contract they gave him, but he still put up over 900 yards and 5 tds this year with a QB who couldn't throw the deep ball.  

 

So by your logic, we should never draft a receiver with speed, because some fast receivers don't pan out?? gotcha.

Unfortunately you didn't gotcha.  I am all in for speed but not just speed.  Hill was a project at best, a huge question mark. His main role were fly patterns and blocking in Georgia Tech's run first offense.  On top of that, his hands were highly suspect.  But he has proved that is no longer a suspicion, his play prove his hands suck.  He's a physical freak and that's why he shot up the boards.  Of course, the Jets are constantly enamored and get suckered with these type of guys, Gholston, Kyle Brady etc. I'm surprised they didn't draft Donte Poe whose combine numbers were off the charts.  Poe has been a huge disappointment as has Hill, who is the perfect compliment to Eugene - they both suck.  Hill cant run a decent pattern, it takes him forever to come out of breaks, he should sign a tv commercial with the candy bar Butterfinger while he has the chance to make some money.  As far as Wallace is concerned, 1000 yd avg is not a big deal in today's NFL and he's only done that twice.  He compares to middle of the pack wr's in the league.  Wallace has speed and can make the big play here and there but he is nowhere near as dominant as other wr's who are more complete: Fitzgerald, Green, C Johnson, A Johnson, Gordon (1600 yrds 9 td's with a scrub qb), A Brown (who Steelers coveted much more), Demaryius Thomas, etc etc etc. He didn't deserve that contract and it will set the Fins back - yippie, yahooee.

 

You want speed....Jared Abbredaris.  Great route runner, great hands, elusive, 4.40 (that's Sammy Watkins speed) Round 3 make it happen Idzik.


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#40 BroadwayJoe12

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 06:23 PM

Unfortunately you didn't gotcha.  I am all in for speed but not just speed.  Hill was a project at best, a huge question mark. His main role were fly patterns and blocking in Georgia Tech's run first offense.  On top of that, his hands were highly suspect.  But he has proved that is no longer a suspicion, his play prove his hands suck.  He's a physical freak and that's why he shot up the boards.  Of course, the Jets are constantly enamored and get suckered with these type of guys, Gholston, Kyle Brady etc. I'm surprised they didn't draft Donte Poe whose combine numbers were off the charts.  Poe has been a huge disappointment as has Hill, who is the perfect compliment to Eugene - they both suck.  Hill cant run a decent pattern, it takes him forever to come out of breaks, he should sign a tv commercial with the candy bar Butterfinger while he has the chance to make some money.  As far as Wallace is concerned, 1000 yd avg is not a big deal in today's NFL and he's only done that twice.  He compares to middle of the pack wr's in the league.  Wallace has speed and can make the big play here and there but he is nowhere near as dominant as other wr's who are more complete: Fitzgerald, Green, C Johnson, A Johnson, Gordon (1600 yrds 9 td's with a scrub qb), A Brown (who Steelers coveted much more), Demaryius Thomas, etc etc etc. He didn't deserve that contract and it will set the Fins back - yippie, yahooee.

 

You want speed....Jared Abbredaris.  Great route runner, great hands, elusive, 4.40 (that's Sammy Watkins speed) Round 3 make it happen Idzik.

 

What are you even talking about? Firstly, Hill's hands were never in question until he had a poor rookie year. He dominated the combine, dominated the gaunlet drill and show a lot of people how good his hands were. He struggled last year due to concentration. Want to know how many passes he dropped this year? One. 

 

Dontari Poe, in his second year, was one of the best NTs in the entire NFL this past year: one of only 7 NT/DTs in the entire league to notch a +15 against the run and registered 36 QB pressures (14th in the league). He anchored one of the best defenses in the league and had a stellar playoff game.

 

Spin it any way you want, but Wallace averaged 1000 yards and 8 tds per season while with Pittsburgh. That's something most third rounders do not do. Fact. Oh, but because he's not one of the top 5 WRs in the entire NFL means he's not good? Righttt.


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#41 BroadwayJoe12

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 06:27 PM

Unfortunately you didn't gotcha.  I am all in for speed but not just speed.  Hill was a project at best, a huge question mark. His main role were fly patterns and blocking in Georgia Tech's run first offense.  On top of that, his hands were highly suspect.  But he has proved that is no longer a suspicion, his play prove his hands suck.  He's a physical freak and that's why he shot up the boards.  Of course, the Jets are constantly enamored and get suckered with these type of guys, Gholston, Kyle Brady etc. I'm surprised they didn't draft Donte Poe whose combine numbers were off the charts.  Poe has been a huge disappointment as has Hill, who is the perfect compliment to Eugene - they both suck.  Hill cant run a decent pattern, it takes him forever to come out of breaks, he should sign a tv commercial with the candy bar Butterfinger while he has the chance to make some money.  As far as Wallace is concerned, 1000 yd avg is not a big deal in today's NFL and he's only done that twice.  He compares to middle of the pack wr's in the league.  Wallace has speed and can make the big play here and there but he is nowhere near as dominant as other wr's who are more complete: Fitzgerald, Green, C Johnson, A Johnson, Gordon (1600 yrds 9 td's with a scrub qb), A Brown (who Steelers coveted much more), Demaryius Thomas, etc etc etc. He didn't deserve that contract and it will set the Fins back - yippie, yahooee.

 

You want speed....Jared Abbredaris.  Great route runner, great hands, elusive, 4.40 (that's Sammy Watkins speed) Round 3 make it happen Idzik.

 

Total strawman. Myself, nor anyone else is claiming it was a good contract that he got from Miami, it was terrible. That doesn't take away from the fact that he was one of the best values for a third round WR in a while. If you're telling me you'd turn down 1000 yards and 8 tds from a third rounder, because he's not Calvin Johnson or Josh Gordon, then I'm not sure what to tell you.


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#42 New York Mick

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 06:31 PM

You forgot Harding worker, smarter, and driven then Benji, where does that leave the two? Talent doesn't always trump hard working, Talent, AND Hard Working does, but there is a lot to be said about Benji off the field.


Never once read Benji wasn't a hard worker, stupid or not driven.

As far as off the field 99% of these guys are assholes.
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#43 T0mShane

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 06:33 PM

Dontari Poe is in the Pro Bowl.
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#44 New York Mick

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 06:42 PM

Dontari Poe is in the Pro Bowl.


Not sure why you posted that but he killed the combine. Guy was a freak that could actually play unlike VG.
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#45 BroadwayJoe12

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 06:47 PM

Not sure why you posted that but he killed the combine. Guy was a freak that could actually play unlike VG.

 

His response was most likely to Ozzie, who's premise is that all physical freaks will bust out of the league.  I'm just not sure Ozzie understands that everyone entering the draft is physically gifted and turning the most physically gifted ones down, because VG failed, is ridiculous. Being a physical freak and being good at football are not mutually exclusive. 


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#46 ozzieny

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 06:50 PM

Total strawman. Myself, nor anyone else is claiming it was a good contract that he got from Miami, it was terrible. That doesn't take away from the fact that he was one of the best values for a third round WR in a while. If you're telling me you'd turn down 1000 yards and 8 tds from a third rounder, because he's not Calvin Johnson or Josh Gordon, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

 

Wallace is one dimensional and nowhere as complete as the elite wr's.  For a 3rd round pick he is fine but the point is Wallace is not an elite, well rounded wr. There are  countless wr's who were picked in the 3rd round or later who are equal or better than Wallace.... Keenan Allen,  Kenny Stills, Ty Hilton, Marvin Jones etc etc  And Hill's hands were totally suspect by all scouts preceding the draft. And he dropped one ball? That's because he never got open to get the ball thrown to him. 


Edited by ozzieny, 22 January 2014 - 06:51 PM.

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#47 ozzieny

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 07:01 PM

His response was most likely to Ozzie, who's premise is that all physical freaks will bust out of the league.  I'm just not sure Ozzie understands that everyone entering the draft is physically gifted and turning the most physically gifted ones down, because VG failed, is ridiculous. Being a physical freak and being good at football are not mutually exclusive. 

You are twisting my words or maybe you didn't understand where I was coming from.  My point is the physical freak thing is not the end all.  I never said the physical freak will result in being a bust. Its just certain guys get all the hype because they can run around a bunch of stupid cones faster or can lift more weight than others. Combine numbers are a huge illusion.  "Being a physical freak and being good at football are not mutually exclusive".  I couldnt agree more with your statement.  Hill was considered one of these physical freaks as was Gholston.  Both are busts.  Scouts were very very weary of Hill and for good reason.  You couldn't get a 6th round pick in a trade for Hill now. 


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#48 Larz

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 07:05 PM

yes yes please yes


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#49 BroadwayJoe12

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 07:23 PM

Wallace is one dimensional and nowhere as complete as the elite wr's.  For a 3rd round pick he is fine but the point is Wallace is not an elite, well rounded wr. There are  countless wr's who were picked in the 3rd round or later who are equal or better than Wallace.... Keenan Allen,  Kenny Stills, Ty Hilton, Marvin Jones etc etc  And Hill's hands were totally suspect by all scouts preceding the draft. And he dropped one ball? That's because he never got open to get the ball thrown to him. 

 

No one is arguing that he is an elite WR. Bit suggested selecting one of the speedier receivers in the 3rd rounds in hopes of getting lucky like Pittsburgh and you said it was a poor idea, because he wasn't as a good as the elite receivers in the NFL, received a contract he didn't deserve and stephen hill sucks.  None of that takes away from Wallace being fantastic value for a 3rd rounder; everyone here would be dong back flips if we landed someone of his caliber in the 3rd round.  

 

Secondly, out of those receivers you mentioned, only Keenan Allen had a better rookie year. How is Still's a better receiver when he's basically a one-dimensional deep threat like Wallace was, but had worse numbers? Ty Hilton is following a very similar trajectory to Wallace, but again, worse statistical numbers.  Marvin Jones? Outside of the big day against the Jets, Wallace had more yards and tds in one year than Jones had in his first two combined.  None of that even matters, I'm not arguing Wallace is the next coming. I'm simply saying that he was fantastic value for a 3rd rounder, we should only be so lucky to get someone like him in the 3rd and that just because some physical specimens haven't panned out, doesn't mean you ignore them forever. It's why each player is individually scouted and not based on what VG did.


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#50 pedro55

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 09:26 PM

I dont think they will go QB earlier than rd 3. 

 

best available freak and yes it could be a OLB or CB. dont everyone all panic if it happens. 

 

the WR argument is interesting and i definitely see the need; but the value might not line up. i.e. if the big names are gone, Idzik isn't going to reach

 

as for TE in rd 1 this has been a historically terrible pick for this franchise: Keller, Becht, Brady, Mitchell etc. I don't know why the Jets can't draft a TE in rd 1 but they can't. those who ignore the mistakes of history are doomed to repeat them. 

 

  It's not about panic, it's about the truth that nobody likes to admit.   This BAP in the draft is really dumb logic.  Nobody knows who the best players are and everybody has a different opinion.  Many times the top 5 picks are a crap shoot, much less the rest of the draft.   It's one thing to take a guy who should go in the 2nd round and take him first, it's another to take a Defensive player because he's the so called BAP at 18, but there was some TE or WR who might only be the BAP at 26.    A team who does that is stupid.   

 

  The Jets offense stinks. It's stunk for years.  They have no playmakers.  None.  No WR who can make plays.  No TEs who can make plays.  No RBs who can make plays.   And their QB is still an unknown.       Again, what happens if in round 1, 2, 3 the BAP at their spot is defensive players.   They should just keep picking defense and forget about the offense because their board says so?    At that point you'd have to assume this entire organization is filled with idiots.

 

  Yes, they have needs on defense,  but at the end of the day,  the Jets can draft another freaking CB and make that maybe 4 First round CBs on the roster,  and draft no offensive players that make a difference.  Then Rex will impress people and the Jets will finish 8-8.   Fans will be excited because hey, "they had no talent on offense."  Wait till next year when they get some weapons on offense.   Except hey, BAP again, is defense in the draft.  And the crap continues.


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