Jets Trade Mason

[#27TheDominator]

Better or as good. Not worse. As good would work since we were a TD away from the Super Bowl. I'm not the GM, they don't pay me and I don't have access to GM resources. As a full time GM, I would expect better results from Tannenbaum. #1. Aso was a rediculous and frivolous pipedream. You can't pay for Revis and Aso and still have depth at other positions. It's a logical impossibility. #2. retain some leadership. Adding Plax and Mason while losing Woody (who was hoping to return...well documented) Ellis, TRich, Cotchery etc. left this team without identity. #3. Add Oline depth through free agency (Ravens anyone?), #4 Draft for need in the later rounds (Powell, McElroy and McKnight were useless...though McElroy gets a pass as he will supplant father time). #4 Cut Bait. Ducasse gone. Hunter demoted. Vet installed (the healthiest former giants FA? Gurode, etc?) #5 Bring in competition for Sanchez (Silky Garrard?). #6 Go after need-based players in UDFA (Lefeged, Herzlich?) #7 develop young WR already on squad instead of bringing in Splashy names that can no longer play (Kerley, Patrick Turner). There are RBs and WR's all over the league that have been developed from late rounds or UDFA who are solid players. We don't develop. We bu players from other squads. And this our biggest personnel issue. Where is our Victor Cruz, Arian Foster, Miles Austin? Hell even Bart Scott was UDFA, and we bought him at top-dollar from another team.

Where was Woody's hoping to return "well documented"?

Drafting for need in later rounds isn't the way to get good players. It's the way to get a bunch of sh*tty players at a position of need. You list Schlauderaff in your horrors of Tannenbaum, but the guy is a conditional 7th rounder at a position of need. You want to sign guys who are sitting in front of their couches on week 6 because you think they... oh **** it. I give up. Cut them all and start over. They aren't playing as well as last year.

[dbatesman]

Meh, the only tough game they've had all year was at home vs. Chicago.

Read: they've had no tough games all year.

[JustInFudge]

Plax has been fine, but just not great, although I think anyone who expected he would be that was a tad delusional. The big thing is he's coming off a couple of games where he had a few pretty ugly drops in the midst of losing games, which is going to turn a lot of people against him. I had zero expectations for Plax so I certainly have been pleasantly surprised, and there's no doubt he far outperformed Mason in their time together. I get just as pissed as anyone any time I see a WR drop a ball, but unfortunately it's more and more common in the NFL these days, and beyond that I don't see any real reason to be too upset with the guy unless someone thought we were getting 2007 Plax.

Like I said, he's made the tough catches and dropped the easy ones. I like what he brings to the offense, we just dont know how to use him.

Plax collects his paycheck, and that's fine. But defenses are barely accounting for him at all the last few weeks. You'd need more than two hands to count the number of plays where he literally checked out as soon as the ball was snapped between the New England and Baltimore games. That said, the masses can't really be that confused when Marbury eats Vaseline, you knew what you were getting to begin with.

Hard for me to say when a player has "checked out" when I cant see the entire play on TV. I know I've seen him hustling down field on plays, making blocks, etc which would say the opposite of your claim.

I will say, all but 1 play this year that has gone his way...seems like there is always an extra body around meaning he's getting more the just single coverage. Again, all hard to tell if you dont see on TV and cant see the whole field.

[JustInFudge]

Read: they've had no tough games all year.

I consider division games tough. Most of the time with those games you can throw records out the window and the better team doesnt always win.

[Integrity28]

?

He's third on the team in receiving yards, tied for most TD's with 2, and leads the Jets WR's with 15.5 ypc. He's been a very solid addition.

Exactly. The real problem is we can't get him the ball enough.

[RutgersJetFan]

Hard for me to say when a player has "checked out" when I cant see the play.

It really isn't, and yes, you can see the play. That you choose to ignore it doesn't mean it isn't happening. The one against Baltimore where he threw a retard arm up on a perfectly simple slant was laughable. On the plays where Sanchez is keyed on someone else off the snap (almost all the time), sometimes he barely even bothers yogging.

The dude's a dick, this isn't anything new about him so I'm not sure why you'd err on the side of giving him the benefit of the doubt; other than being a big stupid homer, but we have the long-winded dude from Queens for that. Don't be that guy.

[JustInFudge]

It really isn't, and yes, you can see the play. That you choose to ignore it doesn't mean it isn't happening. The one against Baltimore where he threw a retard arm up on a perfectly simple slant was laughable. On the plays where Sanchez is keyed on someone else off the snap (almost all the time), sometimes he barely even bothers yogging.

The dude's a dick, this isn't anything new about him so I'm not sure why you'd err on the side of giving him the benefit of the doubt; other than being a big stupid homer, but we have the long-winded dude from Queens for that. Don't be that guy.

Huh? I'm choosing to ignore it because I cant see where a WR is after the 10 yards the TV angle gives me? All I know is I've seen him lay a bunch of people out on run plays and passing plays down field. Thats typically a good sign that he's not giving up the second the ball is snapped like you're suggesting.

And you thinking I'm a homer after as long as we've been posting together is pretty funny.

[faba]

FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- The day after trading Derrick Mason to Houston, New York Jets general manager Mike Tannenbaum said the move was based on a lack of production on the field and had nothing to do with the wide receiver criticizing the team's offense.

The deal, with the Jets getting an undisclosed draft pick, became official Wednesday. Sources told ESPNNewYork.com's Rich Cimini on Tuesday that the Jets receive a conditional seventh-rounder.

"I think the hallmark of our program is everyone has to be themselves," Tannenbaum said Wednesday. "And clearly that's the environment we have here. What he said after the Baltimore game had nothing to do with the decision we made last night. Obviously the performance on the field wasn't where he had expected to be or where we had expected to be."

Mason, who signed a two-year contract ($1.3 million this season), complained after the Week 4 loss to the Ravens, telling reporters that there were "cracks" in the offense.

A week later, a published report said he and fellow receivers Santonio Holmes and Plaxico Burress met individually with coach Rex Ryan to complain about offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer's system.

More From ESPN

ESPNNewYork.com

Rich Cimini isn't surprised the Jets dealt Derrick Mason. The veteran was on thin ice and the team needs a wake-up call. Blog

ESPN.com

It's a short-notice move, but there's a lot to like about the Texans picking up Mason, writes Paul Kuharsky. Blog

• Karabell: Short-term fantasy value

Ryan and the three receivers refuted the story. ESPNNewYork.com reported Sunday night that Mason was benched for the first half of the Jets' loss to the New England Patriots because of his postgame comments from the previous week.

The Jets denied that, too.

Despite all of that, Tannenbaum said Mason wouldn't have been sent packing if Houston didn't call, even though the Jets barely are getting anything in return. He didn't clarify whether that call was the result of the Jets trying to shop Mason, saying those discussions were internal. Tannenbaum did say Mason was surprised at the news.

"Clearly what our program stands for is (that) it's a disciplined program, but it's also a program that lets guys be who they are, lets their personalities come out," Tannenbaum said. "And we're always going to make the decisions on what's best for the team, but it's going to be based on what gives us the best chance to win on the field."

Mason was added to the Jets' roster after slot receiver Jerricho Cotchery asked for and received his release. Ryan knew Mason from his days in Baltimore, but the 37-year-old veteran was not able to get into the system quickly enough, and leaves with 13 catches in five games.

"At times I think our offense has looked productive, efficient, and at other times we've all seen it, it hasn't been to the level that we hope or expect," Tannenbaum said. "But with that said, I believe in the guys in the locker room. I believe in the coaching staff, the same coaches that have developed this quarterback and brought up to two AFC Championship Games. We've got to get those inconsistencies addressed and hopefully it happens soon, and we expect it to."

Asked if he would try to shore up the Jets' thin receiver ranks, Tannenbaum expressed confidence in rookie wide receiver Jeremy Kerley and noted that Logan Payne will eventually come back once his broken wrist heals. The Jets also added Michael Campbell to the practice squad.

Still, the offense has struggled after a season when Cotchery, Holmes and Braylon Edwards went to the AFC title game.

"Those are always the most interesting discussions," Tannenbaum said. "From my perspective, I think you want to of course win for today and develop for tomorrow. And I think we've done a really good job of that. You look at the great organizations: Baltimore, New England, Philadelphia, the sustainable success.

"That's what we want to be about and we want to just keep laying one successful season after another, and you can't keep them all. In a free-agency system, you can't."

Jane McManus is a reporter and columnist for ESPNNewYork.com.

[RutgersJetFan]

Not sure where the credit as a blocker is coming from either. He just about sh*t his pants when he crossed inside to throw a stalk block on one of the NE safeties during one of Greene's runs. Pretty hilarious actually. Haven't seen a guy shy away from contact like that since Cromartie played matador with Greene a few years back. He was one of the worst run blockers in the league when he was with the Giants, but yeah, I'm sure prison time and some work with this squad has magically turned him in to something worthwhile in the blocking department.

[dbatesman]

And you thinking I'm a homer after as long as we've been posting together is pretty funny.

Gay.

[#27TheDominator]

Like I said, he's made the tough catches and dropped the easy ones. I like what he brings to the offense, we just dont know how to use him.

Hard for me to say when a player has "checked out" when I cant see the entire play on TV. I know I've seen him hustling down field on plays, making blocks, etc which would say the opposite of your claim.

I will say, all but 1 play this year that has gone his way...seems like there is always an extra body around meaning he's getting more the just single coverage. Again, all hard to tell if you dont see on TV and cant see the whole field.

I agree. HIs production hasn't been bad and he has been blocking and working. The problem is either his attitude or a perceived attitude. There are plays when he looks like he doesn't give a sh*t or is barely trying. He seems like the team in general. A bully. When things are going his way he's great. When they aren't he seems lazy and sulky.

[RutgersJetFan]

Huh? I'm choosing to ignore it because I cant see where a WR is after the 10 yards the TV angle gives me? All I know is I've seen him lay a bunch of people out on run plays and passing plays down field. Thats typically a good sign that he's not giving up the second the ball is snapped like you're suggesting.

And you thinking I'm a homer after as long as we've been posting together is pretty funny.

Considering your argument is "but I've seen him lay a bunch of people out," yeah, I'd say that's a bit on the ARodish side. Yeah.

And I hate to say it, but you've been a homer. Anyone who doesn't post TLDR in Queens' threads is a homer at this point. You're all fired.

[Stonehands]

I hope we see Turner active and on the field, now.

[RutgersJetFan]

There are plays when he looks like he doesn't give a sh*t or is barely trying.

But I can't see 'dem on da TV! Therefore it isn't happening.

[JustInFudge]

Gay.

Love you too.

I agree. HIs production hasn't been bad and he has been blocking and working. The problem is either his attitude or a perceived attitude. There are plays when he looks like he doesn't give a sh*t or is barely trying. He seems like the team in general. A bully. When things are going his way he's great. When they aren't he seems lazy and sulky.

Body language?

Considering your argument is "but I've seen him lay a bunch of people out," yeah, I'd say that's a bit on the ARodish side. Yeah.

And I hate to say it, but you've been a homer. Anyone who doesn't post TLDR in Queens' threads is a homer at this point. You're all fired.

Well, you are claiming one thing that nobody other than you notices...and I'm claiming something they've played replays of him literally laying people out...maybe you're just too bigger of a hater to see it so you turn your blind h8er eye.

And I'm not a snotty prick like you. I give everyone a chance.

[JustInFudge]

But I can't see 'dem on da TV! Therefore it isn't happening.

Gawd you like a little ******* girl these days. So ******* annoying.

All I said, is I cant see the whole play...so i dont know when he is supposedly giving up like you claim. Maybe you have better TV vision than I do. I'm typically focused on Sanchez sh*tting the bed or our OL getting him killed. You're a Football watching god. You see sh*t Plax does when he's not even on the screen.

[ZachEY]

Meh, the only tough game they've had all year was at home vs. Chicago. They've played some serious duds this year...KC, TB, Vikings...Romo handed them a game too. They are playing good Football, but I'm not ready to say they are contenders.

I think you are a very passionate fan who knee jerks way too quick. You're ready to call the season over for next to nothing sometimes. I was with Klacko when you texted him that...couldnt help but laugh and then the comeback started.

The way I see it...no team in the NFL has had to endure the 3 game stretch the Jets have so far. Nobody..not even close really. Away @ Oakland, Balt and NE. Thats really really tough for even elite teams.

Season is far from over and the Jets will be 4-3 going into the bye with destiny in their hands.

I don't know what about this team suggests they can beat the Chargers. It's not about losing, it's about how bad they look. The team, at present, doesn't do anything well but run back kicks. This team was hard to get behind even last year because then, the offense still wasn't very good. We saw it pop up at times, including in our loss to pittsburgh.

[RutgersJetFan]

Well, you are claiming one thing that nobody other than you notices...and I'm claiming something they've played replays of him literally laying people out...maybe you're just too bigger of a hater to see it so you turn your blind h8er eye.

And I'm not a snotty prick like you. I give everyone a chance.

Right, that the other guy who quoted you mentions it as well is proof that I'm alone in the sentiment. And yes, me having a random bias against Plaxico Burress and having an uncontrollable urge to lie about him on the Internet is a far more plausible explanation than the notion that maybe you're just watching other things on the field.

[Bleedin Green]

Considering your argument is "but I've seen him lay a bunch of people out," yeah, I'd say that's a bit on the ARodish side. Yeah.

And I hate to say it, but you've been a homer. Anyone who doesn't post TLDR in Queens' threads is a homer at this point. You're all fired.

When even I'm posting TL;DR in someone's threads, you know there's some serious freakin' problems.

[RutgersJetFan]

Gawd you like a little ******* girl these days. So ******* annoying.

[url=http://www.threadbombing.com/details.php?image_id=5171][/url

[Bleedin Green]

I don't know what about this team suggests they can beat the Chargers. It's not about losing, it's about how bad they look. The team, at present, doesn't do anything well but run back kicks. This team was hard to get behind even last year because then, the offense still wasn't very good. We saw it pop up at times, including in our loss to pittsburgh.

I think there's a chance the Jets win that one, but only because of how ridiculously advantagous the statistics show it is for an east coast team to have a 1PM home game vs a west coast team.

[#27TheDominator]

But I can't see 'dem on da TV! Therefore it isn't happening.

I saw 'dem on da TV!

Body language?

Well, you are claiming one thing that nobody other than you notices...and I'm claiming something they've played replays of him literally laying people out...maybe you're just too bigger of a hater to see it so you turn your blind h8er eye.

And I'm not a snotty prick like you. I give everyone a chance.

It's not just body language, though that's a big part. At the end of these games he has had some balls thrown his way that he seemed to short arm and flail one arm at. It happened more against the Ravens. If he wasn't the #1 option, he didn't go after the ball particularly hard. They weren't "drops" but it was obvious it wasn't 100% effort either.

I don't know what about this team suggests they can beat the Chargers. It's not about losing, it's about how bad they look. The team, at present, doesn't do anything well but run back kicks. This team was hard to get behind even last year because then, the offense still wasn't very good. We saw it pop up at times, including in our loss to pittsburgh.

Three words. Norv ******* Turner.

Right, that the other guy who quoted you mentions it as well is proof that I'm alone in the sentiment. And yes, me having a random bias against Plaxico Burress and having an uncontrollable urge to lie about him on the Internet is a far more plausible explanation than the notion that maybe you're just watching other things on the field.

So, now I'm "the other guy"?

I think there's a chance the Jets win that one, but only because of how ridiculously advantagous the statistics show it is for an east coast team to have a 1PM home game vs a west coast team.

Doesn't some of that get washed away by San Diego coming off the bye?

[Integrity28]

Gawd you like a little ******* girl these days. So ******* annoying.

All I said, is I cant see the whole play...so i dont know when he is supposedly giving up like you claim. Maybe you have better TV vision than I do. I'm typically focused on Sanchez sh*tting the bed or our OL getting him killed. You're a Football watching god. You see sh*t Plax does when he's not even on the screen.

Why are you wasting your time on this, seriously?

People are backing up their arguments with "body language" and sh*t you just can't see unless you are at field level in the stadium.

[Bleedin Green]

Doesn't some of that get washed away by San Diego coming off the bye?

Certainly could be, but that probably depends on how Norv decides to handle it. If he was smart he'd probably use the opportunity to make an early week cross-country trip and practice for the week out here, but he's a moron so he'll still probably wait until Saturday, which should work in the Jets advantage. That said, it's still the Jets and they'll be working on a short week, so who the hell knows.

[JustInFudge]

I don't know what about this team suggests they can beat the Chargers. It's not about losing, it's about how bad they look. The team, at present, doesn't do anything well but run back kicks. This team was hard to get behind even last year because then, the offense still wasn't very good. We saw it pop up at times, including in our loss to pittsburgh.

The way I see it, is right now the Jets are battled tested. They've had by far the toughest stretch in the NFL facing three 4-1 teams on the road. The Chargers only real contest was NE and they got smoked. They barely beat the Vikings, Chiefs, Broncos, Dolphins. You do math on how many combined wins those teams have.

And I think the Jets have improved from game to game. They let Romo pass all over them for the most part and then shut down Jax. They let DMC run all over them and the next game they shut down Rice and Flacco couldnt complete a pass for a whole half of Football. Then they faced the Patriots and if they had a decent offense they would have won. On the decisive drive, the Jets thought they were passing, had extra DB's in the game and they ran instead. The second the Jets put in their run stop package, the drive stalled. I actually think the Jets have improved from week to week in certain areas.

And like BG mentioned, SD is coming to our house to play a 1pm game which historically doesnt work out too well for the road team.

Right, that the other guy who quoted you mentions it as well is proof that I'm alone in the sentiment. And yes, me having a random bias against Plaxico Burress and having an uncontrollable urge to lie about him on the Internet is a far more plausible explanation than the notion that maybe you're just watching other things on the field.

Dom was talking about his body language that he is "preceived" to not give a ****. You were talking about him actually not giving a ****, which I havent seen. You are the master.

[ECURB]

I'm not sure how actually statistics qualify as "guessing" and how their use qualifies as "blind", but hey, again, your world doesn't require reality testings, so, Go You!

You are using 5 games of stats.... I could throw together some ugly stats from the last two years over 4-6 games as well... and look where they got.

You are GUESSING... based on how you are interpreting an incomplete sample.

You just don't want to admit your opinions arent facts...

[JustInFudge]

Three words. Norv ******* Turner.

Doesn't some of that get washed away by San Diego coming off the bye?

Thats a good point that I didnt take into consideration...but that might help them out. I still like the Jets chances at home.

Why are you wasting your time on this, seriously?

People are backing up their arguments with "body language" and sh*t you just can't see unless you are at field level in the stadium.

I was trying to talk to the non-snotty pricks on the site, but that F'er RJF had to open his damn mouth.

[Bleedin Green]

Aw man, looks like the Jets missed out. Raiders just traded 2 picks to the Seahawks for Aaron Curry. Now that's how a team gets it done... Tanny sucks, amirite??!

[RutgersJetFan]

You are using 5 games of stats.... I could throw together some ugly stats from the last two years over 4-6 games as well... and look where they got.

You are GUESSING... based on how you are interpreting an incomplete sample.

This is true. However incomplete samples can reflect the population to a fairly confident degree once it reaches a certain level. When it comes to team performance, it reaches a higher probability than it not reflecting once you hit week 4, and the correlation to wins kicks in at about week 7. So we're almost there. It's more probabilistic to argue in favor of the data on the board at this point in the season, rather than a significant drop given the inconsistencies of the offense and how they're certainly not anything random or rare for this team, especially considering that offensive performance is more correlative to wins than defensive performance is.

[RutgersJetFan]

Dom was talking about his body language that he is "preceived" to not give a ****. You were talking about him actually not giving a ****, which I havent seen. You are the master.

Riiiiight.

It's not just body language, though that's a big part. At the end of these games he has had some balls thrown his way that he seemed to short arm and flail one arm at. It happened more against the Ravens. If he wasn't the #1 option, he didn't go after the ball particularly hard. They weren't "drops" but it was obvious it wasn't 100% effort either.

[#27TheDominator]

This is true. However incomplete samples can reflect the population to a fairly confident degree once it reaches a certain level. When it comes to team performance, it reaches a higher probability than it not reflecting once you hit week 4, and the correlation to wins kicks in at about week 7. So we're almost there. It's more probabilistic to argue in favor of the data on the board at this point in the season, rather than a significant drop given the inconsistencies of the offense and how they're certainly not anything random or rare for this team, especially considering that offensive performance is more correlative to wins than defensive performance is.

All this numbers geek mumbo jumbo makes me start to snore and drool, but I understand your point. For 2011, whether it is because of the lockout or some other reason, it seems like it will be some time before I think the numbers are reliable. Does anybody really think we have established who the powers are in the NFL? Are the Bills and Niners for real? I'm not so sure.

[RutgersJetFan]

All this numbers geek mumbo jumbo makes me start to snore and drool, but I understand your point. For 2011, whether it is because of the lockout or some other reason, it seems like it will be some time before I think the numbers are reliable. Does anybody really think we have established who the powers are in the NFL? Are the Bills and Niners for real? I'm not so sure.

It's a variable that hasn't been accounted for in previous years, definitely. But it's also something that isn't biased in regards to a team like Buffalo and not affecting some else, say us. Therefore it's nearly impossible to argue in favor of it causing a significant shift in the trend. That's not to say that it won't have some measurable effect, but it actually being significant enough for several of the teams to all shift course drastically is unlikely. I'm sure there will be a team or two that will level off, either up or down, but not enough to cause a drastic drop-off in the slope.

[Larz]

11 pages ?

lol

[JetsFanInDenver]

A very bad signing which results in in season issues.

The JETS did a horrible job of their WR signing during the off season. And now its coming to bits us back!

[ECURB]

A very bad signing which results in in season issues.

The JETS did a horrible job of their WR signing during the off season. And now its coming to bits us back!

Huh? a bad job?

How so? Who should they have gotten that is doing better?