Cimini: Combine Preview

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Combine preview: Jets talent search

February, 21, 2012

Feb 21

6:00

AM ET

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By Rich Cimini

On Wednesday, the annual scouting combine commences in Indianapolis. It runs for six days, with NFL general managers, coaches and scouts scrutinizing 300-plus draft prospects.

The combine serves several purposes, mainly:

• Team collect medical information. This is where the "meat market" aspect to the combine comes into play, as players are put through intensive medical examinations. Sometimes, league doctors will discover a previously unreported injury. Prospects also have to take psychological exams.

• Interviews. Teams are allowed to meet with a designated number of prospects (usually around 20) for about 15 minutes apiece. The Jets consider this a valuable tool when evaluating players. Instead of asking run-of-the-mill questions ("So, tell us about yourself, Andrew...), they often ask players to break down game tape of himself. GM Mike Tannenbaum likes to ask outside-the-box questions such as: What are your pet peeves? If you could invite any three people to dinner, who would they be? Stuff like that. The idea is to find out what makes a player tick.

• The workout. Players are timed and tested in everything from the 40-yard dash to the vertical jump to bench pressing. A year ago, Rex Ryan added some levity to the weight-lifting session when he tried to bench the standard 225 pounds. (Didn't go very well.) Some teams place too much emphasis on combine workouts. The Jets did that in 2008, when they fell in love with OLB Vernon Gholston. His tests were off the charts, but ... well, you know the story.

Some players skip the workout, preferring to hold off until their campus pro day -- and that drives the NFL teams crazy. Here is the combine schedule.

LET'S MAKE A DEAL: This is a huge part of the combine. Even though free agency doesn't begin until March 13, team reps and agents will have "unofficial" contact. Technically, when it involves an agent representing a player from another team, it's tampering. But it's hard to police, and rampant.

The trading period doesn't open until March 13, but there's also trade talk -- and there's nothing illegal about that. For instance: Two years ago, Tannenbaum met with Chargers officials at the combine and set the groundwork for the Antonio Cromartie trade.

Team reps also try to hammer out deals with their own free agents. Typically, Tannenbaum will meet with several agents over the course of the week. For example, he could meet with Sione Pouha's agents to discuss a new contract.

LOCAL TIES: Several players from local schools will be in attendance. Here's a rundown, according to the combine:

Rutgers: DE Justin Francis, WR Mohamed Sanu, G Desmond Wynn.

Syracuse: DE Chandler Jones, TE Nick Provo, S Phillip Thomas, G Andrew Tiller.

UConn: WR Kashif Moore, DT Kendall Reyes, K Dave Teggart.

Family ties: Penn State CB D'Anton Lynn (son of Jets RB coach Anthony Lynn) and Wisconsin WR Nick Toon (son of former Jets great Al Toon).

Tomorrow: The Jets' top-10 list.

[JiFtheOracle]

This really doesnt have anything to do with the article but I was listening to a radio show this morning saying that of the combine invites over 60% are DE, OL, CB and WR.

Kind of tells you something about the league, no?

[Bleedin Green]

Some teams place too much emphasis on combine workouts. The Jets did that in 2008, when they fell in love with OLB Vernon Gholston. His tests were off the charts, but ... well, you know the story.

It's crap like this that makes Cimini such a moronic douche-nozzle. Yeah, the Jets made the pick and it blew up in their faces, but the way this story has changed over the past 4 years to try to make the Jets look even worse than they already did is absolutely pathetic. The Jets never fell in love with Gholston, and there were numerous reports that there were a number of people on the team who didn't like him as a prospect, but between one person's infatuation with him (regardless of whether you believe that person to be Mangini or Tanny) and the fact that every other top prospect came off the board one after another in front of them, that's what they ended up with and the combine had nothing to do with it. Not to mention, Gholston was ranked as a top prospect long before his combine workouts, which is what makes the whole "workout warrior" tag with him so stupid to begin with. I'm not trying to defend the pick in the least, Gholston was beyond horribly awful, but absolute garbage like this is why morons like Cimini should not even have a job.

[Bleedin Green]

This really doesnt have anything to do with the article but I was listening to a radio show this morning saying that of the combine invites over 60% are DE, OL, CB and WR.

Kind of tells you something about the league, no?

That's it's just so hard to find a good FB these days?

[JiFtheOracle]

That's it's just so hard to find a good FB these days?

Ground and Pound baby, ground and pound.

[flgreen]

It's crap like this that makes Cimini such a moronic douche-nozzle. Yeah, the Jets made the pick and it blew up in their faces, but the way this story has changed over the past 4 years to try to make the Jets look even worse than they already did is absolutely pathetic. The Jets never fell in love with Gholston, and there were numerous reports that there were a number of people on the team who didn't like him as a prospect, but between one person's infatuation with him (regardless of whether you believe that person to be Mangini or Tanny) and the fact that every other top prospect came off the board one after another in front of them, that's what they ended up with and the combine had nothing to do with it. Not to mention, Gholston was ranked as a top prospect long before his combine workouts, which is what makes the whole "workout warrior" tag with him so stupid to begin with. I'm not trying to defend the pick in the least, Gholston was beyond horribly awful, but absolute garbage like this is why morons like Cimini should not even have a job.

As much as I didn't like Gholston at the time, when the pick came there really wasn't anyone else who had value at that spot. I would have had to take him. No one else wanted to trade down for him, particularly at the cost before the new CBA.

i never dreamed he would be that big a bust. At worst I thought he would be a JAG

[Il Mostro]

Love me some combine. Getting the beer on ice and hitting the dispensary for six days of blissful numbness.

[flgreen]

Love me some combine. Getting the beer on ice and hitting the dispensary for six days of blissful numbness.

Wens, Thurs, and Friday should be a blast for ya

[bitonti]

As much as I didn't like Gholston at the time, when the pick came there really wasn't anyone else who had value at that spot. I would have had to take him. No one else wanted to trade down for him, particularly at the cost before the new CBA.

i never dreamed he would be that big a bust. At worst I thought he would be a JAG

to say Gholston was a combine workout warrior is lazy reporting. He is still the single season sack record holder at Ohio State. That year, he was on fire, even bull rushing future #1 overall pick Jake Long twice in the same game for sacks.

[T0mShane]

to say Gholston was a combine workout warrior is lazy reporting. He is still the single season sack record holder at Ohio State. That year, he was on fire, even bull rushing future #1 overall pick Jake Long twice in the same game for sacks.

Didn't he go from a third round prospect to a top-ten prospect solely due to the Combine? He must have really answered that difficult "What are your pet peeves?" question really, really correctly.

[bitonti]

Didn't he go from a third round prospect to a top-ten prospect solely due to the Combine? He must have really answered that difficult "What are your pet peeves?" question really, really correctly.

Gholston was never really a 3rd round prospects. there were draft people who ranked him low because they didn't like him (Russ Lande for example). Lande right now has Morris Claiborne as his best prospect, better than Andrew Luck. a certain amount of these "outlandish" statements are just to be different or just to get attention. No one in the world really believes Morris Claiborne is better than Andrew Luck. But it's a good way to drive traffic.

No, Gholston was a productive player from a huge school, that produced in big games. If anyone was a workout warrior, it was DRob. He didn't workout at the combine it was a pro day phenomenon. Unlike Gholston, Drob didn't really have the production to back up his selection.

[dbatesman]

Didn't he go from a third round prospect to a top-ten prospect solely due to the Combine? He must have really answered that difficult "What are your pet peeves?" question really, really correctly.

VG: Rich Cimini, the New England Patriots, and building through the draft. Oh, and people who say "irregardless."

MT: ME TOO!

[SenorGato]

Didn't he go from a third round prospect to a top-ten prospect solely due to the Combine? He must have really answered that difficult "What are your pet peeves?" question really, really correctly.

No.

[Greenseed4]

This really doesnt have anything to do with the article but I was listening to a radio show this morning saying that of the combine invites over 60% are DE, OL, CB and WR.

Kind of tells you something about the league, no?

So the other 40% would be QBs, TEs, LBs, and Safeties? Sounds about right. I could give two sh*ts how fast my place-kicker runs a forty.

[JiFtheOracle]

So the other 40% would be QBs, TEs, LBs, and Safeties? Sounds about right. I could give two sh*ts how fast my place-kicker runs a forty.

RBs and DTs too.

Its a very telling number. Pass first league. Premium is at, OL, WR, CB, and DE. Obviously Qb but just number wise they are going to add. I'm sure if you add them to the mix, they make up a small portion but will add to the percentages saying the league knows what it takes to win.

[FloridaJetsFan]

So the other 40% would be QBs, TEs, LBs, and Safeties? Sounds about right. I could give two sh*ts how fast my place-kicker runs a forty.

That equals 0% RBs. I guess they don't have to show up to the beauty pagent.

[New York Mick]

to say Gholston was a combine workout warrior is lazy reporting. He is still the single season sack record holder at Ohio State. That year, he was on fire, even bull rushing future #1 overall pick Jake Long twice in the same game for sacks.

I thought Long only gave up one sack for the whole year?? And the combine jumped VG Into the 1st round, I argued with you the whole off season he was overrated. I liked Chris Long, Campbell and Mayo on the D side a lot more.

[T0mShane]

No.

You're the same dude who thought Vince Oghobaase was a second rounder.

[T0mShane]

VG: Rich Cimini, the New England Patriots, and building through the draft. Oh, and people who say "irregardless."

MT: ME TOO!

[Integrity28]

You're the same dude who thought Vince Oghobaase was a second rounder.

While this might be true, in Gato's defense. His ability to predict the draft value of a player, versus his ability to re-tell what happened in a past draft are two totally separate issues.

You asked if Gholston went from a 3rd round prospect to top 10 pick after the combine. All anyone need be able to do to answer this is remember if its true or not. I'm pretty sure its not.

[T0mShane]

While this might be true, in Gato's defense. His ability to predict the draft value of a player, versus his ability to re-tell what happened in a past draft are two totally separate issues.

You asked if Gholston went from a 3rd round prospect to top 10 pick after the combine. All anyone need be able to do to answer this is remember if its true or not. I'm pretty sure its not.

I just like to type "Oghobaase."

[T0mShane]

I'm trying to find the old links to pre-combine draft previews that showed Gholston as a 2nd/3rd rounder. I know I've C&Ped them before in one of my many anti-Tannenbaum rants. For obvious reasons, it seems most draft guru sites don't like to keep old, bust-pimping draft profiles around. dammit.

[sg3]

he was considered a top 15 pick in that draft based on his OSU career

he moved up to 6 because of his combine

but why would anybody expect the our dick from espn ny to report correctly when he has his agenda to push

[Sperm Edwards]

Wasn't he projected in the 15-20 range before the combine?

That year the player I remember being in the round 2-3 range and shooting up into the top-20 projections post-combine, then eventually getting drafted top-10, was Jerrod Mayo.

Playing for a big-time program, Gholston had like 15 sacks as a senior and was an All-American. No way he was expected to go in round 3 except, like Bitonti said, in the case of a couple of individuals who may personally rank him that low. Ranking him that low - which I agree is often done for attention - is not the same as actually expecting him to be drafted in round 3 though.

[KSJets]

I'm trying to find the old links to pre-combine draft previews that showed Gholston as a 2nd/3rd rounder. I know I've C&Ped them before in one of my many anti-Tannenbaum rants. For obvious reasons, it seems most draft guru sites don't like to keep old, bust-pimping draft profiles around. dammit.

If you're so sure that you copy and pasted them here, then go search your own posts. Of course, 99% of your posts are anti-Tannenbaum, so good luck narrowing it down.

[T0mShane]

If you're so sure that you copy and pasted them here, then go search your own posts. Of course, 99% of your posts are anti-Tannenbaum, so good luck narrowing it down.

Exactly. Could take me weeks. It's also compounded by the fact that it might not have even been on this site.

[T0mShane]

Wasn't he projected in the 15-20 range before the combine?

That year the player I remember being in the round 2-3 range and shooting up into the top-20 projections post-combine, then eventually getting drafted top-10, was Jerrod Mayo.

Playing for a big-time program, Gholston had like 15 sacks as a senior and was an All-American. No way he was expected to go in round 3 except, like Bitonti said, in the case of a couple of individuals who may personally rank him that low. Ranking him that low - which I agree is often done for attention - is not the same as actually expecting him to be drafted in round 3 though.

I dont know, man. It's trivia now, but Justin Tuck is Notre Dame's all-time sack leader and he went in the third with prototypical DE size.

[KSJets]

Exactly. Could take me weeks. It's also compounded by the fact that it might not have even been on this site.

Well, what are you waiting for? Stop posting and get searching. You need to find that post.

[Bleedin Green]

I dont know, man. It's trivia now, but Justin Tuck is Notre Dame's all-time sack leader and he went in the third with prototypical DE size.

It will be ok, the pick still sucked in the end , and you can still trash Tanny for it. Don't be a Cimini-esque level of idiotic douchebag and try to change the facts just to suit your agenda to further trash the team. There's more than enough material out there to do it legitimately.

[T0mShane]

It will be ok, the pick still sucked in the end , and you can still trash Tanny for it. Don't be a Cimini-esque level of idiotic douchebag and try to change the facts just to suit your agenda to further trash the team. There's more than enough material out there to do it legitimately.

Which facts?

[Bleedin Green]

Which facts?

You're sitting here trying to justify Cimini's complete bullsh*t stance that Gholston's drafting was based entirely on combine workouts, which is just utter nonsense. The fact that you're still pushing the issue after numerous people, some of who are not exactly the most ardent of Tanny defenders, have told you that he's wrong only makes it worse. Come on, even you should hold yourself above Cimini standards, it's not like that's asking all that much, just use the endless stream of legitimate material this team gives you to bash them, as opposed to completely fabricating other stuff.

[T0mShane]

You're sitting here trying to justify Cimini's complete bullsh*t stance that Gholston's drafting was based entirely on combine workouts, which is just utter nonsense. The fact that you're still pushing the issue after numerous people, some of who are not exactly the most ardent of Tanny defenders, have told you that he's wrong only makes it worse. Come on, even you should hold yourself above Cimini standards, it's not like that's asking all that much, just use the endless stream of legitimate material this team gives you to bash them, as opposed to completely fabricating other stuff.

Hold your horses there, fella. I didn't once reference Cimini and I wasn't even really bashing Tannenbaum. I was asking if anyone else remembers where Gholston was slated to go prior to the Combine. That's all. Everything you come up with on Google says that Gholston blew up that year. I remember him being mentioned as a 2nd/3rd rounder, but as Sperm and bit pointed out, pre-combine sources are notoriously dubious, so who really knows?

[bitonti]

by the way alot of players come from nowhere after the combine and they don't all end up busting. Osi Umenioria for example was widely considered a 5th or 6th rd prospect, had a strong combine, went in the 2nd round. Turned out ok for the Giants. Vernon Davis was considered a top 50 player, blew up the combine and went 7. Turned out ok for the Niners.

There is alot to be said for a guy who is a sick athlete. They all don't end up like Vernon Gholston. Pro teams want guys who work out well. What's the alternative? Taking a guy who sucks at the combine cause He won't be Gholston?

[Matt39]

Someone should have been able to realize Gholston wasn't a football player.

[derp]

A lot of the fluff about guys rising in the draft because they blew up the combine is complete BS IMO. Scouts and internet draft analysts know who the sick athletes in the draft are before the combine, and they get slotted accordingly. I've read a bunch of times how a certain player is going to rise after the combine...because people watch him on tape and they know that he's going to test out well athletically. Then he does, and all of a sudden teams fell in love with him because he ran fast in shorts. But realistically he looked fast on tape and didn't produce for some reason that they're willing to overlook because of some other things they saw on tape. Plenty of guys are able to run fast and don't move up, it almost all comes back to the tape.