Official 2012-2013 New York Knicks Thread

[T0mShane]

Not to pat myself on the back but I told everyone this last year. Smith's brother isnt an NBA player but theyre going to pay him as an incentive to keep JR here. His father also as a job with MSG. Chris SMith just hired Leon Rose as his agent too, who's also Melo's agent and the big wig over at CAA who runs MSG.

Yo, it's one thing to sign Carmelo's roll-dawgs, but it's another thing to sign Carmelo's roll-dawgs' roll-dawgs.

[Matt39]

I'd live to sit in an executive meeting at MSG

[Matt39]

Yo, it's one thing to sign Carmelo's roll-dawgs, but it's another thing to sign Carmelo's roll-dawgs' roll-dawgs.

They could tell Chris Smith to take a hike. No one is giving JR Smith more than a one year deal. I'd say more than half of the league already has a no JR Smith policy.

[T0mShane]

They could tell Chris Smith to take a hike. No one is giving JR Smith more than a one year deal. I'd say more than half of the league already has a no JR Smith policy.

JR on a long-term deal should be amusing to watch implode/

[Matt39]

JR on a long-term deal should be amusing to watch implode/

He already imploded. Partying nights before games, flagrant fouls, not hustling...

Remember when Woodson said he'd bench him if he continued to struggle?

The Knicks are rolling out the red carpet for a bi polar psychopath. Woodson at the end of the day has no control over certain guys who are getting favors from above.

Packaged deals of siblings happen in the playground. The Knicks use it a professional franchise.

[SMC]

I'd live to sit in an executive meeting at MSG

I met Anucha Browne Sanders while she still worked at MSG. Really nice person. She should be a saint to Knick fans.

[SMC]

I'm on record as saying I don't want JR back. Bringing his brother too is dumb.

[T0mShane]

I'm on record as saying I don't want JR back. Bringing his brother too is dumb.

IN YOUR FACE, JIF

[Matt39]

I'm on record as saying I don't want JR back. Bringing his brother too is dumb.

 

I can live with the Knicks doing special favors for Carmelo. For JR Smith?

 

Come on Dolan.

[Bugg]

Prediction-Jimmy Dolan is going to go full retard and try somehow via sign and  trade (Chandler and a boatload of junk)  get Dwight Howard. if they toss in Shumpert, the Lakers might even do it. The math is pretty much impossible. But this guy does odd things with math, like mailing  out your cable bill with a load of indecipherable charges every month.

[JustInFudge]

I'm on record as saying I don't want JR back. Bringing his brother too is dumb.

 

HATER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JohnnyHector]

Prediction-Jimmy Dolan is going to go full retard and try somehow via sign and  trade (Chandler and a boatload of junk)  get Dwight Howard. if they toss in Shumpert, the Lakers might even do it. The math is pretty much impossible. But this guy does odd things with math, like mailing  out your cable bill with a load of indecipherable charges every month.

 

In the new CBA, you can't do sign & trades if you're over the cap, which both the Knicks and Lakers are.

[SMC]

HATER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Objective

[BroadwayJoe12]

In the new CBA, you can't do sign & trades if you're over the cap, which both the Knicks and Lakers are.

 

I believe if James White's option isn't picked up we'll be below the apron by half a million (on players that are fully guaranteed) and then able to do so.  We'd really luck out if Kidd or Camby retire, the latter already expressed no intentions in doing so, so I doubt that happens. 

[BroadwayJoe12]

I can live with the Knicks doing special favors for Carmelo. For JR Smith?

 

Come on Dolan.

 

I'm not a big JR fan, too immature and too much of a dumbass, however I don't particularly think it's smart to get rid of a 27 yo, reigning 6th man of the year winner who gave you 18 and 6 for essentially nothing, when you can get him on the cheap.  I don't particularly like the nepotism, but I'm not letting the equivalent of a James White or Quentin Richardson stop me from signing an 18 & 6 player for $5 million, that's a bargain.  I'm sure you're right, there's a lot of teams who would shy away from him, but this is going to be a players' friendly market with a lot of teams under the cap, he most surely could get more. 

 

My problem is not so much with him, but more him being the second option.  Until he can be that consistent threat we saw towards the end of the regular season, you can't rely on him being that number 2.  If shumpert takes the next step and becomes a more consistent offensive threat, having JR as a 3rd option would be a difference maker.  This could blow up in our face and the NYC nightlife gets the better of him, you're right, but he could also continue to mature and work on his game to finally maximize his potential.  The dude has come a long way, obviously still not there yet, but if Lance Stephenson can go from throwing his pregnant gf down a flight of stairs and taunting Bron to the "hard-working & determined" roll-player he's been dubbed this playoffs, anything is possible. 

[BroadwayJoe12]

As it was horribly apparent this post-season, we clearly lack size, rebounding, energy and talent in the low post, so a couple guys I'm hoping the Knicks take a look at in the next month leading up to the draft are Gorgui Dieng, Tony Mitchell & Jeff Withey.  Drafting 24th overall Dieng might not be there, after being the cornerstone of the national champ's defense, but he would certainly be and added addition.  He's actually refined his offensive game past just pure athleticism, but that's more of a bonus to me seeing as how I'd want him for his rebounding and defense; actually plays the pick n roll well for a big man, which is pretty rare, and does all the fundementals well, not surprising coming outta Lousville. Alters many more shots than he actually blocks, he's definitely someone the Knicks could use, but I've seen his sock anywhere from late lottery to end of the first, so prolly not gonna get my hopes up.

 

Tony Mitchell - did not see him play outside of high lights, but his 20-20 game caught my eye and I started following the box scores.  Dude is an absolute animal on the glass, both offensively and defensively and plays very aggressive.  Can defend numerous positions and at 6'9 with a 7'3 wingspan, can really disrupt small forwards and yet still body up the PFs. 

 

Jeff Withey was one of the better big men in the country, but likely won't go higher than this because of his lack of any elite physical skills.  The kid blocked everything whenever I caught a kansas game; more likely a first big off the bench type guy, but that's something we certainly lack.  Good defender, rebounder and shot blocker. 

 

 

Won't really get into the SGs or anything as there's plenty, but I just personally would rather us get some actual size and aggression on the block for a change.

[T0mShane]

I'm not a big JR fan, too immature and too much of a dumbass, however I don't particularly think it's smart to get rid of a 27 yo, reigning 6th man of the year winner who gave you 18 and 6 for essentially nothing, when you can get him on the cheap. I don't particularly like the nepotism, but I'm not letting the equivalent of a James White or Quentin Richardson stop me from signing an 18 & 6 player for $5 million, that's a bargain. I'm sure you're right, there's a lot of teams who would shy away from him, but this is going to be a players' friendly market with a lot of teams under the cap, he most surely could get more.

My problem is not so much with him, but more him being the second option. Until he can be that consistent threat we saw towards the end of the regular season, you can't rely on him being that number 2. If shumpert takes the next step and becomes a more consistent offensive threat, having JR as a 3rd option would be a difference maker. This could blow up in our face and the NYC nightlife gets the better of him, you're right, but he could also continue to mature and work on his game to finally maximize his potential. The dude has come a long way, obviously still not there yet, but if Lance Stephenson can go from throwing his pregnant gf down a flight of stairs and taunting Bron to the "hard-working & determined" roll-player he's been dubbed this playoffs, anything is possible.

Smith isn't a kid, bro. He was exiled to Japan and learned nothing. This is a bad bet by the Knicks. Not dissimilar to the Jets extending Holmes.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Smith isn't a kid, bro. He was exiled to Japan and learned nothing. This is a bad bet by the Knicks. Not dissimilar to the Jets extending Holmes.

 

I saw a different JR this year compared to any season previously, and while it's not as mature and professional as any of us want or hoped for, it was a stride and at least gives me hope he can grow.  The JR from Denver never would have apologized or accepted responsibility for his poor performance and there were times this year where his game showed development where he was getting to the line at will.  

 

While I can see the the similarities to Holmes, Grunwald isn't about to hand Smith a 4 year 48 million dollar contract, I think 4 years and starting at $5 per is a calculated risk.  I bet we'd all be complaining a lot less if Holmes was sitting on 5 years 30 million, instead of getting $10 per. 

 

Bottom line, it's still a calculated risk and one I think you have to take, given the cap-constraints and the market.  You're not going to get 18 & 6 from anybody else cheaper, unless a rookie blows up.  Letting him walk and replacing him with nothing could absolutely hamstring the team.  Hoping Shumpert develops and allows JR to be a 3rd option would be ideal.

 

 

Edit: I would like to fully admit that I am an unabashed, shameful optimist and would rather be hopeful than pessimistic, regardless of how the odds are skewed.  I mean, I still think Camby and Amare can give us something next year, so my optimism should be taken with a giant grain of salt.  I do feel JR coming at a bargain can be a good thing, but I fully am aware of the implications of how badly it could blow up and how flawed he is due to his immaturity.  I guess I'd just rather er on the side of things working out for the Knicks for once.  The universe owes those  Co-jets and knicks' fans.

[SMC]

There's an emotional/mental defect in JR that prevents him from maximizing his talent, which is tremendous and, why, on more than one occassion I say he makes me sad.  He could have it all but has blown it on more than one occassion.  I'm glad Rihanna called him out because she shed light on what we all thought was happening.

 

IMO, the 2nd option will be Shump.  He has the makings of a consistent 15 pt scorer with hellacious defense.  From there they'll need points spread out with a couple of more double digit scorers such as Felton.  I'm willing to let JR go because he's Pookie from New Jack City.  You simply can't put your hope in someone so volitile.  Losing his 18 ppg will hurt but we have to seriously wonder if JR can achieve that again.

 

With out a doubt, JR had the perfect situation in NY.  He was close to home, he's a fan favorite, he's on a winning team, and he just won 6th man.  Plus, it's a FA year.  It couldn't be better for him but then HE and HE alone blew it up by falling back into his old ways.  The elbow screwed up his psyche and then he started clubbing during the week again.  Then he had the incredible lapses on the court.  His lack of hustle in Game 6 was directly attributable to his poor shooting start.  The WSJ beat writer did a game by game breakdown of JR and showed than whenever JR shoots poorly to start a game his defense suffers and that's what happened in Game 6.  He's sulking on the court and that let other players run around him for drives or rebounds.

 

I agree that the Knicks need to get a young, athletic big, but I think it should be at the 3.  Keep Melo at 4 and have a tall swing man that can rebound and hit an open 3. 

[SayNoToDMC]

Smith isn't a kid, bro. He was exiled to Japan and learned nothing. This is a bad bet by the Knicks. Not dissimilar to the Jets extending Holmes.

 

 

J.R, Smith is my nigga

 

 

 

My dream is trade Tyson for Eric Gordon. **** JR and get a real #2, never going to happen but salaries match and N.O. and him don't seem very happy with each other

[SMC]

Smith isn't a kid, bro. He was exiled to Japan and learned nothing. This is a bad bet by the Knicks. Not dissimilar to the Jets extending Holmes.

I can see the analogy, but the main difference is that the Knicks most important player isn't Mark Sanchez.

[SayNoToDMC]

I can see the analogy, but the main difference is that the Knicks most important player isn't Mark Sanchez.

 

No but our most important player is only good at one thing and the team/coaching built around that is pretty embarrassing

[SMC]

JR is like Chuck Knoblauch at 2nd base for the Yankees.  You need to have comfort that a routine grounder to 2nd is going to be an out.  You can't have JR out there when he's sulking and letting JAGs fly by him for rebounds and backdoor cuts or let balls bounce by him because he thinks he has run for transition D.

 

Look at Game 6 again.  JR ruined so many possessions on offense and defense.

[SayNoToDMC]

JR is like Chuck Knoblauch at 2nd base for the Yankees.  You need to have comfort that a routine grounder to 2nd is going to be an out.  You can't have JR out there when he's sulking and letting JAGs fly by him for rebounds and backdoor cuts or let balls bounce by him because he thinks he has run for transition D.

 

Look at Game 6 again.  JR ruined so many possessions on offense and defense.

 

 

Woodson is my main issue. He marched JR and for the most part Kidd out there over and over despite anything that was happening during the game. We don't really have wiggle room as far as upgrading talant so there's no way we can afford to have a guy like Frank Vogul coaching circles around us.

[jason423]

I was surprised at all the Knicks hate on the radio today. People were making out as if this was a team that had a 1 year window to win it all and they blew it. I dont get that line of thinking. Nobody gave them a snowballs chance of winning against Miami but would have been ultra pumped by being competitive in 4 losses and maybe stealing a game or two. Now because they go down one series earlier they blew their one year window?  I just dont like that line of thinking. 

 

Do the Knicks need to improve?  Yes they do but Melo is in his prime and he'll get that team the 50 wins they want. Hes that good and I dont get why people degrade his game so badly.  Yes he doesnt play defense but neither do many of the offensive talents in the NBA. The Knicks knew that this was going to be an issue when they traded all their depth to bring him in rather than chancing free agency. At this point probably the best option for the Knicks is to go out and look for a decent 3 that can help scoop up the boards and play the role of athletic wingman. You can sometimes find those types for not that much money. 

[Larz]

the knicks don't need a big.  chandler just wasn't healthy and neither was amar'e.  heck, the team is a month removed from melo playing center.

 

they need tony parker.  a penetrating guy who can kick to the shooters and finish when the defense backs off.  kidd and pablo can't finish in the lane and felton can't do it for 48 minutes.

 

and yeah, the melo hate is stoopid.  he is the only guy who played close to his numbers in this series.  he's the last guy to look at, but the lazy media and fans will just blame the guy with the big contract

[SMC]

The Knick and Melo hate by the media is stupid.  But it's expected.

 

Going into the postseason we wouldve said that Melo, Tyson and JR are the team's 3 top players.  It's hard to advance to the 3rd round when 2 of the 3 were awful.  Even Lebron isn't getting back to the Finals if Wade and Bosh are horrendous.

[T0mShane]

Lebron went to the Finals with Anderson Varejao as his second best player.

You guys are snowing yourselves by giving Melo a pass here. The dude is a brilliant scorer, but possibly the most one-dimensional player since Dominique. I personally respect the guy's ability, but the results speak for themselves, both here and in Denver. He's Danny Tartabull.

[Larz]

Lebron went to the Finals with Anderson Varejao as his second best player.

You guys are snowing yourselves by giving Melo a pass here. The dude is a brilliant scorer, but possibly the most one-dimensional player since Dominique. I personally respect the guy's ability, but the results speak for themselves, both here and in Denver. He's Danny Tartabull.

 

 

lazy lazy lazy

[T0mShane]

The Knick and Melo hate by the media is stupid. But it's expected.

Going into the postseason we wouldve said that Melo, Tyson and JR are the team's 3 top players. It's hard to advance to the 3rd round when 2 of the 3 were awful. Even Lebron isn't getting back to the Finals if Wade and Bosh are horrendous.

I'll guarantee you that one search on a Denver Nuggets message board from three years ago would contain the same post. "How can Melo win when he's stuck with Player X, Player Y, etc etc.?!??" At some point, you have to start to wonder about the common denominator.

[T0mShane]

lazy lazy lazy

Here's one for you: who does Melo need around him to win? Chris Paul? Dwight Howard? Kevin Durant? How many superstars will it take?

[SMC]

Lebron went to the Finals with Anderson Varejao as his second best player.

You guys are snowing yourselves by giving Melo a pass here. The dude is a brilliant scorer, but possibly the most one-dimensional player since Dominique. I personally respect the guy's ability, but the results speak for themselves, both here and in Denver. He's Danny Tartabull.

The East was utter garbage when LeBron went to the Finals.  Those were the West domination years and what led to the forming of the Big 3 in Boston.  And, no, Anderson Varejao was not his second best player.

 

And Danny Tartabull?  LOL.  You're a buffoon.

[SMC]

Here's one for you: who does Melo need around him to win? Chris Paul? Dwight Howard? Kevin Durant? How many superstars will it take?

Actually, it will only take one other star, just like Durant has in Westbrook and LeBron has in 2 others.

 

What is with this "how many" nonsense?  Did you just get dumb all of a sudden.  The Big 3 changed everything in the NBA.  Or were you asleep then after the Nets blew back-to-back Finals?

[T0mShane]

The East was utter garbage when LeBron went to the Finals. Those were the West domination years and what led to the forming of the Big 3 in Boston. And, no, Anderson Varejao was not his second best player.

And Danny Tartabull? LOL. You're a bafoon.

It's "buffoon," you filthy crank. And minimizing what Lebron did in Cleveland is hysterical.

[SMC]

I'll guarantee you that one search on a Denver Nuggets message board from three years ago would contain the same post. "How can Melo win when he's stuck with Player X, Player Y, etc etc.?!??" At some point, you have to start to wonder about the common denominator.

Denver fans are stupid.  Many still wanted to keep Tebow.