Jets have "good" offer on table for Revis

[T0mShane]

You asked Bit to provide the names and he did.

¿Que?

[Bugg]

You are not going to get multiple firsts for for him mid-season. Both the Jets and the team acquiring him will be disadvantaged cap wise in making that deal. As well, it is not preferable to a team to add a cb mid-eseason, without him working with the defense.

 

I can make stuff up just like you.

You don't know that. You might have a club that sees themselves one great CB away and Revis wants to be part of a run to enhance his 2014 contract value after you get 7-8 games of production. Deion Sanders made a career doing that.

[Scott Dierking]

You don't know that. You might have a club that sees themselves one great CB away and Revis wants to be part of a run to enhance his 2014 contract value after you get 7-8 games of production. Deion Sanders made a career doing that.

I was throwing things against the wall just like Bit does. Stating fact based on his opinion. 

 

There are any number of ways this can go, but it seems pretty conclusive that it looks like Revis is getting traded imminently, unless something breaks down in process. We will have to deal with that.

 

My opinion is that it is probably better for the Jets and Revis. 

 

Bit does not think so. 

 

And there we are.

[#27TheDominator]

I don't really have a problem what they do one way or the other.  I see Bit's point.  A 2nd and 4th?  I don't see that as worthwhile.  We have him this year at short money.  It's like a lottery ticket.  You can take the safe route and take a 2nd (save your $2) or choose what is behind door number two.  I think it is wise to at least posture that you will hold on to him in order to insure you are getting the most a team will send. 

[slats]

i dont know what doctors will be able to see on a guy 4-5 months after surgery and how that will translate in another 4-5 months. Just alot of uncertaity. I'd rather trade him when there's less uncertainty and everyone can see he's the man. And they get his talent in the meantime. Worst case he walks and they get a 3. Is that better than a 2 now? I guess not seeing him in a Pats uniform is worth something but honestly, Revis being a money first guy would never take less to go to the Pats. Maybe the Steelers his hometown. 

The rumor proposed is the Bucs' second this year, which is #43 overall, and a comp 4th that could be as high as a first.

The potential comp pick would be somewhere around #100 in 2015.

If Revis plays at all in 2013, the second pick the Jets get from Tampa should be a third at a minimum, and therefore higher than #100. Plus it's tradeable, which comp picks aren't.

So trading him gets the Jets two better, more flexible picks, years before they'd get the presumed comp pick. They get to choose where he goes, and he's off the books completely in 2014 (instead of counting another $6M in dead money). The only reason you don't do that is if you think Revis is the missing piece in a Super Bowl run and/or you think you have a good chance of extending him after the season. I don't think either of those scenarios are realistic.

I'm hoping the Jets do a lot better than that rumor, but that rumor is significantly better than waiting on a comp pick.

[dbatesman]

bit's absolutely right that a 2nd and a 4th is horsesh*t. If we can't get a 1st+ for Revis, I'd try to re-sign him instead.

[Bleedin Green]

The rumor proposed is the Bucs' second this year, which is #43 overall, and a comp 4th that could be as high as a first.

The potential comp pick would be somewhere around #100 in 2015.

If Revis plays at all in 2013, the second pick the Jets get from Tampa should be a third at a minimum, and therefore higher than #100. Plus it's tradeable, which comp picks aren't.

So trading him gets the Jets two better, more flexible picks, years before they'd get the presumed comp pick. They get to choose where he goes, and he's off the books completely in 2014 (instead of counting another $6M in dead money). The only reason you don't do that is if you think Revis is the missing piece in a Super Bowl run and/or you think you have a good chance of extending him after the season. I don't think either of those scenarios are realistic.

I'm hoping the Jets do a lot better than that rumor, but that rumor is significantly better than waiting on a comp pick.

 

Add onto that, if the Jets wanted to keep that comp pick they would have to go into next year's FA, when they would have significantly more money and looking to build their team back up, with the understanding that they couldn't sign any high-dollar UFAs (or even enough low-dollar ones that equaled the # of UFAs they lost themselves) without losing that pick.

[bitonti]

 The only reason you don't do that is if you think Revis is the missing piece in a Super Bowl run and/or you think you have a good chance of extending him after the season. I don't think either of those scenarios are realistic.

 

 

If the Jets decide not to get ripped off and keep him for his last year, that's also the benefit of not getting ripped off. What a great way to start your GM career, by selling the team's best player for salt peanuts. At least the Jets won't get screwed that's something.  I dont know about a Super Bowl but I'd like to see the 2013 Jets win games.  

[Scott Dierking]

If the Jets decide not to get ripped off and keep him for his last year, that's also the benefit of not getting ripped off. What a great way to start your GM career, by selling the team's best player for salt peanuts. At least the Jets won't get screwed that's something.  I dont know about a Super Bowl but I'd like to see the 2013 Jets win games.  

So, dealing Revis and not getting what someone else feels is fair value in return is worse than holding onto Revis and risking getting nothing at all for him?

[pedro55]

bit's absolutely right that a 2nd and a 4th is horsesh*t. If we can't get a 1st+ for Revis, I'd try to re-sign him instead.

 

  They aren't going to resign him. It's just not happening.  You don't attempt to trade a player and then back off and assume he's going to play nice. He's already pissed and he's been pissed at the Jets and his contract for years.   He might always be pissed about money. Who knows.  But he's not going to give the Jets any discount,   he might sign for $13 million with the Patriots, but he'll demand $16 million + from the Jets.     Some players give their team a discount.   The way this has played out and if Rex is run out of town (aka the only guy on the Jets who seems to want him),  he'll run away as fast as they can.  

 

 And really, if  they wait till the season is over and try to resign him, and the Jets wind up 4-12,  and many good teams can offer Revis just as much as the Jets, why would he resign?

[SouthernJet]

If the Jets decide not to get ripped off and keep him for his last year, that's also the benefit of not getting ripped off. What a great way to start your GM career, by selling the team's best player for salt peanuts. At least the Jets won't get screwed that's something.  I dont know about a Super Bowl but I'd like to see the 2013 Jets win games.  

Bit, I am thinking Jets are rolling dice..Keep Revis thru camp/1st part of season,,If he is GREAT A( trade him to some desparate team willing to do a sign and trade (remember Bengals haul from Raiders for Carson Palmer and perfect timing) or keep him and pay..the issue could be C) he doesnt recover form injury and we have him as average CB who resigns or he is Free Agent and we lose him for nothing (Bucs 2nd/4th)..

 

You know what, maybe throw dice on gambling losing a sh*tty 2nd/4th at this point

[bitonti]

So, dealing Revis and not getting what someone else feels is fair value in return is worse than holding onto Revis and risking getting nothing at all for him?

 

If Revis helps the 2013 Jets win games, that's not "Nothing at all" 

[slats]

If the Jets decide not to get ripped off and keep him for his last year, that's also the benefit of not getting ripped off. What a great way to start your GM career, by selling the team's best player for salt peanuts. At least the Jets won't get screwed that's something.  I dont know about a Super Bowl but I'd like to see the 2013 Jets win games.  

So rather than selling my car for less than what it's worth this year, I should give it away for nothing next year. And by doing so, I have successfully avoided being ripped off. Is that right?

[pedro55]

Bit, I am thinking Jets are rolling dice..Keep Revis thru camp/1st part of season,,If he is GREAT A( trade him to some desparate team willing to do a sign and trade (remember Carson Palmer and timing) or keep him and pay..the issue could be C) he doesnt recover form injury and we have him as average CB who resigns or he is Free Agent and we lose him for nothing (Bucs 2nd/4th)..

 

You know what, maybe throw dice on gambling losing a sh*tty 2nd/4th at this point

 

 Carso Palmer was retired or threatened to Retire.   He wasn't playing.  The Raiders got stupid when Campbeill was injured, and are stuck with palmer now.   Could this happen?  Of course.   But a smart front office shouldn't hold out hope for some miracle trade come week 5 of the season.

 

 In an era of statistics,  the stats tell you the NFL is not known for trades during the season.     So it's either trade Revis now for what you think he's worth  or know you're losing him after the season.  Dreaming of some trade midseason is just a bad way to do business.

[slats]

If Revis helps the 2013 Jets win games, that's not "Nothing at all" 

You're also saying in this thread that he's going to be less than 100%. How many wins will he really add to the final tally this year?

[Bleedin Green]

So rather than selling my car for less than what it's worth this year, I should give it away for nothing next year. And by doing so, I have successfully avoided being ripped off. Is that right?

 

Exactly.  If the Jets, as rumored, have already decided they are not giving Revis a new contract, then unless they think he is the difference in them winning a Super Bowl (HA!), there really is no logical basis for refusing to trade him.

[Scott Dierking]

If Revis helps the 2013 Jets win games, that's not "Nothing at all" 

You really don't see what else is going on around this team, do you? 

 

Do 5 wins in 2013 with Revis mean so much than 4 wins without him?

[bitonti]

You really don't see what else is going on around this team, do you? 

 

Do 5 wins in 2013 with Revis mean so much than 4 wins without him?

 

 

I treasure every Jets win. 

[Scott Dierking]

I treasure every Jets win. 

Suffice to say, you are not a rich man

[bitonti]

You're also saying in this thread that he's going to be less than 100%. How many wins will he really add to the final tally this year?

 

It's a risk. all the upside is in waiting. Selling now is like selling a stock the day after the market crashed. There's a chance he comes back and is awesome and they can make a better deal. If not oh well they have to play an awesome defender. Boo hoo.

 

btw why is it ok for the crappy Bucs to take this risk but it's not ok for the crappy Jets to take the risk? They are picking 13 that's 4 slots lower than 9. 

[Bleedin Green]

I treasure every Jets win. 

 

So what you're essentially saying is that in any given year, you would trade away the Jets 2nd rounder and a conditional 1st-4th the following year for the possibility (but far from guaranteed) of picking up an extra win or two in a season that has no chance at a championship?  Seems like a bit much to me.

[bitonti]

So rather than selling my car for less than what it's worth this year, I should give it away for nothing next year. And by doing so, I have successfully avoided being ripped off. Is that right?

 

 

to further an imperfect metaphor you also get the benefit of driving it this year. and save the price of buying a replacement. 

[Scott Dierking]

It's a risk. all the upside is in waiting. Selling now is like selling a stock the day after the market crashed. There's a chance he comes back and is awesome and they can make a better deal. If not oh well they have to play an awesome defender. Boo hoo.

 

btw why is it ok for the crappy Bucs to take this risk but it's not ok for the crappy Jets to take the risk? They are picking 13 that's 4 slots lower than 9. 

You have already said that chance is slight that he comes back and is awesome? Really, which is it?

[bitonti]

So what you're essentially saying is that in any given year, you would trade away the Jets 2nd rounder and a conditional 1st-4th for the possibility of picking up an extra win or two in a season that has no chance at a championship?  Seems like a bit much to me.

 

You can't say Revis is only worth an extra win or two and I refuse to say there's NO chance at a championship. These are all unknowns. 

[bitonti]

You have already said that chance is slight that he comes back and is awesome? Really, which is it?

 

I didn't say that. I said there's a history of CBs not coming back from ACL tear and it's depressing what the Jets can get for Revis. that and the somewhat arbitrary 1 million dollar bonus deadline. If the jets change teh deadline from March 19 to week 8 they can get a better deal. And if teams see Revis dominating (even in Preseason action) they can get a much better deal.

 

Right now there's too much uncertainty to get value. I know you hate Revis but he's an asset and this is business not personal. 

[Scott Dierking]

You can't say Revis is only worth an extra win or two and I refuse to say there's NO chance at a championship. These are all unknowns. 

Would you put $3,000,000 of your hard earned dollars on a bet that the Jets are going to compete for a SB this year?

 

Because that is what Idzik would be doing in keeping Revis and not getting value for him.

[Scott Dierking]

I didn't say that. I said there's a history of CBs not coming back from ACL tear and it's depressing what the Jets can get for Revis. that and the somewhat arbitrary 1 million dollar bonus deadline. If the jets change teh deadline from March 19 to week 8 they can get a better deal. And if teams see Revis dominating (even in Preseason action) they can get a much better deal.

 

Right now there's too much uncertainty to get value. I know you hate Revis but he's an asset and this is business not personal. 

You have no proof of that, again. There is a market today, because more teams are looking to settle their rosters. Less opportunity in season than that, when a team will have the jets over a barrel, because they know they can't sign him.

[bitonti]

Would you put $3,000,000 of your hard earned dollars on a bet that the Jets are going to compete for a SB this year?

 

Because that is what Idzik would be doing in keeping Revis and not getting value for him.

 

 

what is that number, the dead space incurred by trading him? Or are you saying that keeping revis gets Idzik fired? if it's the latter, i don't approve of ownership making decisions that idzik should be making. 

[bitonti]

You have no proof of that, again. There is a market today, because more teams are looking to settle their rosters. Less opportunity in season than that, when a team will have the jets over a barrel, because they know they can't sign him.

 

 

all of this is hypothetical. But even a rabid Revis hater should be able to see that trading him now garners less than trading him after he's proven healthy. and if he's never healthy then yes they lose the 2nd and 4th. Boo hoo. I'd rather gamble on getting a 1st or more. 

[Scott Dierking]

all of this is hypothetical. But even a rabid Revis hater should be able to see that trading him now garners less than trading him after he's proven healthy. and if he's never healthy then yes they lose the 2nd and 4th. Boo hoo. I'd rather gamble on getting a 1st or more. 

link? 

 

You don't have proof of that either. 

 

It is not that I hate Revis, I just hate getting nothing of value for a valuable commodity, than getting nothing for that commodity later.

 

Bit, face it, Revis is gone. The Cromartie deal cements that notion. Idzik and company are not looking for a disruptive camp with rancor from Revis and a "will they trade him" story popping up every day. Idzik seems more staid and professional than that and wanting to eliminate the circus atmosphere.

 

The writing seems to be on the wall, it is just a matter of value they get back now.

[whodeawhodat]

imo, the key is not to panic.  If the deal isnt there, dont force it, just like in any negotiation.  We have the goods, buyers will come to us.

[pedro55]

what is that number, the dead space incurred by trading him? Or are you saying that keeping revis gets Idzik fired? if it's the latter, i don't approve of ownership making decisions that idzik should be making. 

 

 

  Losing Revis for essentially nothing next year won't get Idzik fired, but it sure looks bad if they had a chance to trade him for a few draft picks.

Things like that add up.     Sometimes you have to accept reality.   Idzik is looking at the future, not just this season.  

 

 Teams like the 49ers and Broncos and Patriots can look at this year and go all out. And even they don't do that for the most part.  They are expected to be contenders. Hell, they expect to win a super bowl and if those teams don't, the players, coaches and fans would consider it a bad season.  If the Jets win 8 games, everybody and their mother would consider it a successful season.    That's where Idzik is at, not some magical fantasy where the jets might win a super bowl.

 

  Can crazy things happen?  Of course.  But how does holding onto Revis for one last hurrah to go say 8-8 and then losing him for practically nothing make any sense?   

[Bleedin Green]

all of this is hypothetical. But even a rabid Revis hater should be able to see that trading him now garners less than trading him after he's proven healthy. and if he's never healthy then yes they lose the 2nd and 4th. Boo hoo. I'd rather gamble on getting a 1st or more. 

 

Yeah, except for the fact there is one GIGANTIC hole in your argument.  The rumor you are using as the basis for your argument against the Revis trade also suggests that the 4th you reference would actually be conditional up to 1st, which the Jets would likely receive if Revis proves healthy.  Meaning what you suggest the supposed upside to trading him later would be is no more than what the Jets would end up getting in this deal anyway, while massively increasing the risk.  To break it down:

 

If Revis is healthy this year:

Trading him now:  2013 2nd and 2014 1st

Later:  2014 1st and ???

 

If Revis is not healthy this year:

Now: 2013 2nd and 2014 4th

Later:  Nothing

[pedro55]

  It's a nice dream to think the Jets will wait and trade Revis( if proven to be healthy) come October.  Except the NFL doesn't work like that.

Last year, after they extended the trade deadline to Nov 1,  how many trades were there?    New England picked up Talib.  Good pickup.  They sent the Bucs a 4th round pick.      A few seasons back the Pats sent the disgruntled Randy Moss back to the Vikings for what?  It was more get the guy out of here instead of getting quality draft picks.  

 

  This is why it's a bad idea to wait till Oct to trade Revis.  
Teams aren't going to be so desperate to give up a 1st round pick for Revis then. They might be now.

[bitonti]

  It's a nice dream to think the Jets will wait and trade Revis( if proven to be healthy) come October.  Except the NFL doesn't work like that.

Last year, after they extended the trade deadline to Nov 1,  how many trades were there?    New England picked up Talib.  Good pickup.  They sent the Bucs a 4th round pick.      A few seasons back the Pats sent the disgruntled Randy Moss back to the Vikings for what?  It was more get the guy out of here instead of getting quality draft picks.  

 

  This is why it's a bad idea to wait till Oct to trade Revis.  

Teams aren't going to be so desperate to give up a 1st round pick for Revis then. They might be now.

 

the problem with using historical president is that trading a player with Revis' resume and age is unprecedented  a 27 year old with 3x all pro/4x Pro bowl has never hit the market before.  Most teams keep their 1st ballot HOF'ers (at least until they are a ripe old age).

 

 so yeah you can say that a mid season trade doesn't often happen. And I can say trading a player as good as Revis NEVER happens.