Eric Mangini joining 49er's staff

[slats]

Rex's problems as a head coach are three-fold, IMHO. He's weak as a personnel guy, he's weak on offense, and he's too buddy-buddy with his players. I don't know if he can fix the third one with the Jets. Maybe that's a lesson he learns and takes elsewhere. But the first two, the Jets have already addressed pretty strongly.

1.) Tannenbaum sucked, and leaned on Rex for input too much. The result was disastrous. Now the Jets have Idzik, who appears to be his own man. Free agency was exclusively bargain hunting, and he held onto all his draft picks, appearing to go BAP right down the line. A very good start.

2.) Rex was saddled with Schottenheimer, who Tanny and the rest of the so-called brain trust saw as a potential head coach in the league, and Rex managed to hire someone even worse than him in Sporano. To the theam's credit, they cut bait with Luigi quickly (the Jets almost always hold on too long), and brought in a qualified OC. If Mornhinweg is the goods, and Geno pans out as merely mediocre as a rookie starter, Rex could easily find himself getting extended.

3.) it's the player's coach thing that'll be tough -if not impossible- to correct. It's easy to go from strict to less strict, but hard to go from lenient to demanding responsibility. I like him calling out Coples in this regard, and hopefully Sanchez' free ride has finally come to an end. But we'll see.

[Bleedin Green]

To go off of a point made earlier in this thread, you really have to ask yourself which is worse, the big chunk of the board that vilifies every former Jet the second they leave the team to try to put the Jets on some sort of pedestal and act like they are so much better off without that person, or the other group who start choking on the dicks of former Jets after they leave the team in a desperate attempt to blame someone else for all of the same exact crap they were in the front of the line of blaming that former Jet for when he was still with the team?

 

Hate Rex (or any other Jet, past or present, for that matter) for the things he sucks at and leave it at that.  It's not like there isn't plenty of material to use based on things that actually are proven to have occurred in the real world.  I really don't understand the need some people have for all of this conspiracy theory nonsense.

[Jetsfan80]

To go off of a point made earlier in this thread, you really have to ask yourself which is worse, the big chunk of the board that vilifies every former Jet the second they leave the team to try to put the Jets on some sort of pedestal and act like they are so much better off without that person, or the other group who start choking on the dicks of former Jets after they leave the team in a desperate attempt to blame someone else for all of the same exact crap they were in the front of the line of blaming that former Jet for when he was still with the team?

 

Hate Rex (or any other Jet, past or present, for that matter) for the things he sucks at and leave it at that.  It's not like there isn't plenty of material to use based on things that actually are proven to have occurred in the real world.  I really don't understand the need some people have for all of this conspiracy theory nonsense.

 

"Things were better with Mangini".

 

Yeah f***ing right.

[T0mShane]

"Things were better with Mangini".

Yeah f***ing right.

Literally no one has said that.

[Jetsfan80]

Literally no one has said that.

 

Then who the f*** cares about the guy?  Why has this conversation about the 49ers new consultant gone on 4 pages?

[T0mShane]

3.) it's the player's coach thing that'll be tough -if not impossible- to correct. It's easy to go from strict to less strict, but hard to go from lenient to demanding responsibility. I like him calling out Coples in this regard, and hopefully Sanchez' free ride has finally come to an end. But we'll see.

He'll have a hard time un-selling the image that he's sold to his team--that they're the anti-establishment badasses who can roll up on Harleys and scare the sh*t out of the townsfolk. Maybe the roster has been flipped enough for him to push a new ethos, but it's going to be hard to do with Sanchez, Holmes, etc, serving as daily reminders of what was. His opening presser ("you take out one of ours, we'll take out two of yours...") looks pathetic right now. Rex will re-emerge someplace else and act more like Pete Carroll the next time around. That frat-boy kingpin act has a short shelf life, and he's learning that the hard way, same as Carroll.

[T0mShane]

Then who the f*** cares about the guy? Why has this conversation about the 49ers new consultant gone on 4 pages?

Because the idea that Rex=Mangini=Herm saddens Jets fans and points to institutional incompetence, which is much harder to resolve than saying "Well, the coach sucked."

[Jetsfan80]

Because the idea that Rex=Mangini=Herm saddens Jets fans and points to institutional incompetence, which is much harder to resolve than saying "Well, the coach sucked."

 

Meh.  Woody Johnson sucks but there's no way you can lump Rex in with Herm and Mangini as coaches.  Herm is still unemployed by the NFL and Mangini was in the booth for years before this BS "consultant" hiring.  Mangini and Herm both failed miserably with 2 different teams and never had much success before even getting hired by the Jets.  Rex has had success in this league both as a DC and HC and will continue to do so when he leaves the Jets. 

[T0mShane]

Rex has had success in this league both as a DC and HC and will continue to do so when he leaves the Jets.

Rex, like Mangini and Herm, will be a failed Jets head coach in six months. If he goes on to be Dom Capers as a DC, that doesn't change the fact he sucked here.

[Jetsfan80]

Rex, like Mangini and Herm, will be a failed Jets head coach in six months. If he goes on to be Dom Capers as a DC, that doesn't change the fact he sucked here.

 

First off, he hasn't been fired yet, so go ahead and hold off on the "failure" talk.  And how does one "suck" when he STILL has a winning regular season and playoff record?  At worst, he has been an above average HC in his 4 years here.  Herm sucked.  Mangini was either mediocre or below average.  Rex does not suck.

 

If he does get the ax, I think he'll most certainly get another shot as a HC in this league once he learns a few lessons, and he'll have success.  Particularly since he'll be in a place with lower expectations and exposure compared to NYC.  Meanwhile, Herm and Mangini couldn't even get coordinator jobs after getting fired.

[T0mShane]

Herm and Mangini couldn't even get coordinator jobs after getting fired.

*EDIT*

[dbatesman]

Rex, like Mangini and Herm, will be a failed Jets head coach in six months. If he goes on to be Dom Capers as a DC, that doesn't change the fact he sucked here.

 

dude how many posts are you going to make about how much you love Mangini

[Jetsfan80]

*EDIT*

 

Where is Herm working currently?

[T0mShane]

dude how many posts are you going to make about how much you love Mangini

ALL OF THEM

[T0mShane]

Where is Herm working currently?

Mangini and Herm both got HC gigs immediately after being fired. Hell, Herm wasn't even technically fired by the Jets. The Chiefs bought his contract for a staff pick.

[Jetsfan80]

Mangini and Herm both got HC gigs immediately after being fired. Hell, Herm wasn't even technically fired by the Jets. The Chiefs bought his contract for a staff pick.

 

And how did they perform at their new gigs?  Do you really think Rex would suffer the same fate?  Rex will have a job in this league as long as he wants it, whether at HC or DC.  Herm couldn't fall back to being a coordinator because he's never BEEN a coordinator. And as we're seeing, no one wants Mangini either in any role of substance.

[dbatesman]

And how did they perform at their new gigs?  Do you really think Rex would suffer the same fate?

 

Just to be clear: your contention here is that Rex is a good coach because when the Jets fire him, he'll do better in his second job than Herm Edwards and Eric Mangini did in theirs.

[Jetsfan80]

Just to be clear: your contention here is that Rex is a good coach because when the Jets fire him, he'll do better in his second job than Herm Edwards and Eric Mangini did in theirs.

 

Rex is a good coach because he has a winning record here.  Rex will be a good coach in this league no matter where he ends up.  Herm and Mangini were not good coaches here, and their track records before and after being Jets HC's has backed that up.

[T0mShane]

Just to be clear: your contention here is that Rex is a good coach because when the Jets fire him, he'll do better in his second job than Herm Edwards and Eric Mangini did in theirs.

He's kinda got a point, though. The 2019 Anaheim Jaguars will probably have a lot of talent on it. Rex could totally win with that future squad.

[T0mShane]

Rex is a good coach because he has a winning record here.

Science.

Rex will be a good coach in this league no matter where he ends up.

More science.

Herm and Mangini were not good coaches here, and their track records before and after being Jets HC's has backed that up.

And yet more science.

[slats]

Because the idea that Rex=Mangini=Herm saddens Jets fans and points to institutional incompetence, which is much harder to resolve than saying "Well, the coach sucked."

The idea that Rex=Mangini=Herm is bullsh*t, though.

Four Jets coaches in the history of the team have brought the Jets to the AFL/AFC Championship Game. Weeb and Parcells did it with first rate QB play. Walt Michaels gets a lot of credit for getting there with Todd. But sh*t, Rex got there two years in a row with maybe the worst QB in the NFL! The only coach in Jets history to get there more than once.

You can point out all of Rex's faults all you like. I agree, he's got a few biggies. There are better NFL head coaches, and the Jets could potentially do better. But they could also do a lot worse, and have. I'd say, being objective as I can, and outside of Parcells, that Rex is the best head coach the Jets have had since 1982.

And that Mangini sucked. If any coach over the years got a raw deal, it was Carroll, who was also at least a qualified coordinator before he took over the job. Mangini lasted a year too long. Woody would've been well within his rights to clean house of Tanny and Mangini after their second year, and it probably would've been a great move.

[SenorGato]

Because the idea that Rex=Mangini=Herm saddens Jets fans and points to institutional incompetence, which is much harder to resolve than saying "Well, the coach sucked."

It shouldn't sadden anyone because it's a lazy and weak comparison. Ryan is a far more experienced and successful coach than both before being hired to fix the team on the field. Unlike either of those guys, his defenses don't completely all apart if the dominant player goes down. Abraham for Herm....Jenkins for Mangini....Revis for Ryan.

[ZachEY]

Hard to tell.  Derek Anderson had that solid 2007 season and afterwards signed a 3-year extension with the Browns.  He was injured for most of 2008 but was still penciled in to compete as the starter with Brady Quinn in '09, as they didn't really make any effort to acquire any other QB's, neither through free agency nor the draft.  Mangini made the deal with the Jets in part to snag some of the Jet players he'd coached, including Brett Ratliff.

 

If he was still the Jets coach its impossible to tell what he'd have planned to do at the QB position.  But the Browns trading out of the 5th spot doesn't necessarily mean he was anti-Sanchez.

 

Doesn't make him Anti-Sanchez.  But nothing in this post is a reason to pass on a guy you think will be a "franchise QB".

[CTM]

Rex is a good coach because he has a winning record here.  Rex will be a good coach in this league no matter where he ends up.  Herm and Mangini were not good coaches here, and their track records before and after being Jets HC's has backed that up.

 

The idea that Rex=Mangini=Herm is bullsh*t, though.

Four Jets coaches in the history of the team have brought the Jets to the AFL/AFC Championship Game. Weeb and Parcells did it with first rate QB play. Walt Michaels gets a lot of credit for getting there with Todd. But sh*t, Rex got there two years in a row with maybe the worst QB in the NFL! The only coach in Jets history to get there more than once.

You can point out all of Rex's faults all you like. I agree, he's got a few biggies. There are better NFL head coaches, and the Jets could potentially do better. But they could also do a lot worse, and have. I'd say, being objective as I can, and outside of Parcells, that Rex is the best head coach the Jets have had since 1982.

And that Mangini sucked. If any coach over the years got a raw deal, it was Carroll, who was also at least a qualified coordinator before he took over the job. Mangini lasted a year too long. Woody would've been well within his rights to clean house of Tanny and Mangini after their second year, and it probably would've been a great move.

 

 

meh... Rex got lucky to even make the playoffs the first year and we've still yet to host a playoff game. Neither of those teams at any point looked like legitimate SB contenders. THe Jets at 8-3 under Mangini in 2008 looked more the part then any of Rex's teams

 

EDIT: this quoting system is the worst.. not sure why that twerp jf80's post is quoted in here and I couldn't remove it without messing up the slats quote.  ftr.I would never directly respond to anything that nitwit has to say

[Bleedin Green]

meh... Rex got lucky to even make the playoffs the first year and we've still yet to host a playoff game. Neither of those teams at any point looked like legitimate SB contenders. THe Jets at 8-3 under Mangini in 2008 looked more the part then any of Rex's teams

 

EDIT: this quoting system is the worst.. not sure why that twerp jf80's post is quoted in here and I couldn't remove it without messing up the slats quote.  ftr.I would never directly respond to anything that nitwit has to say

 

LOL.  Forget any comparison to Rex, this pedestal that people are suddenly trying to put the Jets' 2008 season under Mangini is absurd.  Outside of one 2 week stretch, nobody particularly felt this way back in 2008.  The Jets were barely pulling off wins against completely garbage teams like the Chiefs while getting embarrassed by teams like the Raiders because of moronically stupid ******* coaching.  The first big win of their season came in overtime against the Cassel-led Patriots.  The game that finally had any non-Jets fans convinced the Jets might be real was the following week with their win over the 10-0 Titans (who finished the season going 3-3 and then 1 and done in the playoffs).  Meanwhile, after that game, the Jets were laughably awful.

 

This bullsh*t praise of Mangini only first started long after he was gone when people were desperate to find someone to give the credit for any of Tanny's successful moves and has only intensified due to the need for some to now find someone to give the credit for any of Rex's early success.  Tanny sucked all on his own and if you think Rex sucks (and I can certainly see the argument), it's because of his own actions, and that still holds true even if they did each manage to have moments of success, and not because of some horsesh*t ramblings attempting to retroactively praise someone everyone was thrilled to see go at the time.

[dbatesman]

I'd like to congratulate everyone for successfully moving the goalposts from "are we sure Rex is a better coach than Mangini?" to "LOLZ IF YOU GUYSES LUV MANGINI SO MUCH Y DONT U JUST MARRY HIM"

[Thor99]

I'd like to congratulate everyone for successfully moving the goalposts from "are we sure Rex is a better coach than Mangini?" to "LOLZ IF YOU GUYSES LUV MANGINI SO MUCH Y DONT U JUST MARRY HIM"

 

Hyperbole: The Devil's volleyball.

[Lizard King]

If I remember correctly, the Mangini days started very depressingly, but got promising at the end. But the Rex days started optimistically and then have faded off. Maybe Rex had the right formula for the pieces that were left in place when Mangini was done, and then things began to be disassembled over his time here. Kind of like when the new President gets credit for striking a hot economy right out of the gate, but it was impossible for him to lay the groundwork.

All I can say is, one (two) thing(s) remained constant through both thus far observed coaching tenures; Tannenbaum (and Woody).

So, is it possible that Tannenbaum leaned on his head coach for personnel, and that the 'secret sauce' may have been Mangini in the front office, and Rex on the field?

Oh well, gotta look forward at this point. Hindsight is 20/20 :shrug:

[SenorGato]

I'd like to congratulate everyone for successfully moving the goalposts from "are we sure Rex is a better coach than Mangini?" to "LOLZ IF YOU GUYSES LUV MANGINI SO MUCH Y DONT U JUST MARRY HIM"

So nothing on how stupid Ryan = Herm = Mangini is as a HC?

[Smashmouth]

Rex's problems as a head coach are three-fold, IMHO. He's weak as a personnel guy, he's weak on offense, and he's too buddy-buddy with his players. I don't know if he can fix the third one with the Jets. Maybe that's a lesson he learns and takes elsewhere. But the first two, the Jets have already addressed pretty strongly.

1.) Tannenbaum sucked, and leaned on Rex for input too much. The result was disastrous. Now the Jets have Idzik, who appears to be his own man. Free agency was exclusively bargain hunting, and he held onto all his draft picks, appearing to go BAP right down the line. A very good start.

2.) Rex was saddled with Schottenheimer, who Tanny and the rest of the so-called brain trust saw as a potential head coach in the league, and Rex managed to hire someone even worse than him in Sporano. To the theam's credit, they cut bait with Luigi quickly (the Jets almost always hold on too long), and brought in a qualified OC. If Mornhinweg is the goods, and Geno pans out as merely mediocre as a rookie starter, Rex could easily find himself getting extended.

3.) it's the player's coach thing that'll be tough -if not impossible- to correct. It's easy to go from strict to less strict, but hard to go from lenient to demanding responsibility. I like him calling out Coples in this regard, and hopefully Sanchez' free ride has finally come to an end. But we'll see.

 

he was saddled with Shotty so in his infinate wisdom he hires Sparano.... yeah hes brilliant all the while still preaching ground and pound in a passing league and without the horses to even pull it off.

[dbatesman]

So nothing on how stupid Ryan = Herm = Mangini is as a HC?

 

Mangini is going to be a damn good coach IMO.

[Smashmouth]

Literally no one has said that.

 

have you not figured out by now 80 has his own language when it comes to the Jets

[T0mShane]

The idea that Rex=Mangini=Herm is bullsh*t, though.

In the likely event that Rex gets fired after this season, his tenure here will have been no more fruitful than Herm's, and will have been less fruitful than Mangini's. At least Mangini left behind Revis, Mangold, and Brick, and he righted the ship after the disastrous Herm/Bradway Era similarly to how Parcells righted the ship after Kotite. Rex will have the two AFC Championship appearances, but he'll leave behind a full-bore rebuild.

None of this is to say that Mangini is a better coach than Rex. If I had to pick a coach to lead my team through a playoff run, Rex would clearly be the choice, and might be one of my top-ten coaches overall for that task. But, if I had to hire a coach to lead my franchise on a five-year rebuild, Rex might literally be the last coach I'd pick.

Four Jets coaches in the history of the team have brought the Jets to the AFL/AFC Championship Game. Weeb and Parcells did it with first rate QB play. Walt Michaels gets a lot of credit for getting there with Todd. But sh*t, Rex got there two years in a row with maybe the worst QB in the NFL! The only coach in Jets history to get there more than once.

You can point out all of Rex's faults all you like. I agree, he's got a few biggies. There are better NFL head coaches, and the Jets could potentially do better. But they could also do a lot worse, and have. I'd say, being objective as I can, and outside of Parcells, that Rex is the best head coach the Jets have had since 1982.

But, again, you're just measuring degrees of failure. Will Rex have failed worse than Mangini? Herm? Does it matter?

And that Mangini sucked. If any coach over the years got a raw deal, it was Carroll, who was also at least a qualified coordinator before he took over the job. Mangini lasted a year too long. Woody would've been well within his rights to clean house of Tanny and Mangini after their second year, and it probably would've been a great move.

Where, in the history of the NFL, has a newly hired coach gotten fired after two seasons, one of which resulted in a playoff appearance?

[T0mShane]

It shouldn't sadden anyone because it's a lazy and weak comparison. Ryan is a far more experienced and successful coach than both before being hired to fix the team on the field. Unlike either of those guys, his defenses don't completely all apart if the dominant player goes down. Abraham for Herm....Jenkins for Mangini....Revis for Ryan.

^New metric for judging coaches

[Bleedin Green]

I'd like to congratulate everyone for successfully moving the goalposts from "are we sure Rex is a better coach than Mangini?" to "LOLZ IF YOU GUYSES LUV MANGINI SO MUCH Y DONT U JUST MARRY HIM"

 

That's child's play compared to the claims transforming from "Mangini was a brilliant roster manager who deserves all credit for any success of the Jets after he was fired" to "OMG NOBODY IS DEFENDING MANGINI! YOU GUYS ARE MAKING THAT UP!"