Manziel Ponders Life With New York Jets

[BroadwayJoe12]

I thinking basing his career on what he did vs. LSU is silly.  Should I post Metternberger's career numbers vs. Ole Miss or Florida?  lol

 

Other than size and arm, there's really nothings special about Mettenberger.

 

Manziel is special. 

 

 

It's silly when taken out of the context that I provided: John Chavis is one of the best defensive coordinators in college football, year in and year out and is one of the few DCs who employs a prototypical NFL-style defense. Yes, I know Kirby won the Browles award, but he doesn't utilize the same types of schemes as Chavis. It's alarming because Chavis' defense didn't just hand Manziel two losses, but they completely neutered him: they kept contain extremely well and every time he tried to leave the pocket he looked useless. 

 

That arm and size is usually enough to get a guy drafted in the first two rounds alone.

[#27TheDominator]

I hate when our QBs have size and arm strength

[artemusclyde]

**** yes, make it happen Idzik. 

[JustInFudge]

All that said, he scares me in NYC.

[Jacked4JetsFB]

I think Manziel is going to be a star in the NFL.

[joewillie78]

I think Manziel is going to be a star in the NFL.

We now have 14 games of Geno, he put up a 68.6 today. People kept saying, well we need to see how he progresses the rest of the year.

 

Answer: He has progessed ZERO, and really in my opinion has regressed. He will never be a Franchise guy, that is painfully clear, and really it is amazing how much he resembles his predecessor. How could 2 guys who come from 2 totally different systems look so much alike in this system? hmmmm.

 

Change the system and change the QB, Please.

[CTM]

It's silly when taken out of the context that I provided: John Chavis is one of the best defensive coordinators in college football, year in and year out and is one of the few DCs who employs a prototypical NFL-style defense. Yes, I know Kirby won the Browles award, but he doesn't utilize the same types of schemes as Chavis. It's alarming because Chavis' defense didn't just hand Manziel two losses, but they completely neutered him: they kept contain extremely well and every time he tried to leave the pocket he looked useless. 

 

That arm and size is usually enough to get a guy drafted in the first two rounds alone.

 

 

I agree. The information you provided is compelling.

[Jacked4JetsFB]

We now have 14 games of Geno, he put up a 68.6 today. People kept saying, well we need to see how he progresses the rest of the year.

 

Answer: He has progessed ZERO, and really in my opinion has regressed. He will never be a Franchise guy, that is painfully clear, and really it is amazing how much he resembles his predecessor. How could 2 guys who come from 2 totally different systems look so much alike in this system? hmmmm.

 

Change the system and change the QB, Please.

 

Looking at it in a vacuum, Geno sucks, there is no doubt. But IMO it's really hard to fairly judge any QB playing in this sh*t show of an offense, let alone a rookie QB who is still learning on the job.

 

Rex has been here for 5 years, early on he had competent offenses built by Tannenbaum and Mangini. If you look at the offense that Tannenbaum and Rex built together, it's been flat out horrible.

[joewillie78]

Looking at it in a vacuum, Geno sucks, there is no doubt. But IMO it's really hard to fairly judge any QB playing in this sh*t show of an offense, let alone a rookie QB who is still learning on the job.

 

Rex has been here for 5 years, early on he had competent offenses built by Tannenbaum and Mangini. If you look at the offense that Tannenbaum and Rex built together, it's been flat out horrible.

I agree, hard to judge a QB in this system. So its seems very simple, CHANGE the system, and no matter who this HC brings in to be OC (3 in 5 years already), he will always resort to some Archaic 1960's type offense, ground n pound crap, because he is of this belief (like his father, brother and probably 3rd cousin once removed), that his top ranked defense can win him games. Its 2013, the game has passed him by. Lets get someone who believes in MODERN DAY football, you know a competent QB who slings it all over the yard. Sheesh, Matt Flynn, yes Matt Flynn came from 23 down. We get more than 1 score down and the game is completely over. This crap has to stop. PLEASE.

[Lupz27]

Round two?

He doesn't make it out of the top 10, (if he declares) and I would be willing to make a Sig bet with anyone on this, only way I lose that bet is if he does something stupid off the field, or gets hurt from now until draft day!

[Lupz27]

this kid has only played college football for one year?

Yea and the kid never played college football in his life last year, how did that work out? Go ask Nick Saban, and the best pro type defense in college football maybe ever, that has about 4 guys playing in the NFL now, and another 4 more coming!

[Lupz27]

Here's how I think it goes:

--Jets end up with the 13th overall pick.

--Top five picks are Bridgewater, Clowney, Matthews, Anthony Barr, and Brett Hundley.

--Next tier of picks is Sammy Watkins, Derek Carr, Taylor Lewan, Bortles, and Mosley.

--When the Jets pick comes, they'll be picking from Marqise Lee OR Mike Evans, Jace Amaro, Manziel, Ha Ha Clinton Dix, or one of the OTs.

IMO, Idzik disqualifies Manziel because he's not a guaranteed upgrade (in terms of skillset) from Geno. He could go with Clinton-Dix in the hope that he's Earl Thomas. Or, he could tilt the board away from BPA and realize that he desperately needs one of the wideouts OR the big TE immediately, or he'll risk killing Geno entirely.

--I think Manziel goes to preseason workouts where teams will find out he doesn't really throw it all that well and he'll drop to the bottom of the first, where some dope GM will grab him.

You think wrong!

[Lupz27]

He throws rainbows while on the run, IMO. No zip in his passes, and his frail woman-body will get broken in two around the knee.

Those rainbows drop on a dime, has plenty of zip when needed, knows when to put the zip on it, and when it needs touch, all Manziel does is get back up after the few hits he takes, he is very good at avoiding the monster direct hits, only a handful of guys posses that art, and I believe he is one of those guys.

[Lupz27]

Manziel is going bring circus atmosphere to where he goes-New York media will lap it up

It's only a circus if you lose, when you win it's called something much different (I wouldn't know, I've never seen the winning).

[Lupz27]

I agree, and really, I am obviously in favor of Manziel, and you Mettenberg, and others McCarron etc, and in reality I just want the JETS to try again (sorry, I dislike Smith and see a bleak future), try one of these guys, and hope you hit, but if they sit back and say Geno is our guy, and not try one of these guys, that would dissappoint me more than just simply taking another QB over Manziel.

The 3 QB's I have a hard on for are Manziel (like you said he will bring what RGIII brought to the Redskins fan base last year to the Jets fan base next season), Blake Bortles (guy is the biggest QB in the draft, not height wise, but filled out wise, not skinny, and lanky, and has what NFL QB's need IMO knows how to take what the defense is giving him doesn't force it, and keeps moving the chains at all costs, and does it best when it counts late in games), and Bridgewater, but outside of trading into the top 2 picks he is off our radar.

[Lupz27]

Rex is "mediocre" based on what? His winning record and 4 playoff wins with TWO of the worst quarterbacks in modern NFL history?

Fixed

[Lupz27]

I agree, hard to judge a QB in this system. So its seems very simple, CHANGE the system, and no matter who this HC brings in to be OC (3 in 5 years already), he will always resort to some Archaic 1960's type offense, ground n pound crap, because he is of this belief (like his father, brother and probably 3rd cousin once removed), that his top ranked defense can win him games. Its 2013, the game has passed him by. Lets get someone who believes in MODERN DAY football, you know a competent QB who slings it all over the yard. Sheesh, Matt Flynn, yes Matt Flynn came from 23 down. We get more than 1 score down and the game is completely over. This crap has to stop. PLEASE.

This is so untrue! After the 2010 season Rex let Schotty, and Sanchez AIR IT OUT all year, the only reason he has had 4 other years of "Archaic 1960's type offense" is because the QB is incapable of throwing the football, and completes more passes to the other team for TD's then to his own team!

If Rex had a QB he could trust I think he would have zero problem throwing 50 times a game if that's what it took to win, he just has never had one, and the one year he thought he did the QB did air it out A LOT, remember the Giants game 60 passing attempts!

[joewillie78]

The 3 QB's I have a hard on for are Manziel (like you said he will bring what RGIII brought to the Redskins fan base last year to the Jets fan base next season), Blake Bortles (guy is the biggest QB in the draft, not height wise, but filled out wise, not skinny, and lanky, and has what NFL QB's need IMO knows how to take what the defense is giving him doesn't force it, and keeps moving the chains at all costs, and does it best when it counts late in games), and Bridgewater, but outside of trading into the top 2 picks he is off our radar.

I have not seen Bortles play. I will make sure I watch his postseason games, as people are very high on him (McShay has him about 14th on his board). Other than that I agree with what you said. What I dont understand is that if I bring up trading up to get Manziel, or Bridgewater (hopefully), that people resist this , yet in 2009, people were clamoring for us to trade up and draft a QB from the worst school to possibly draft a QB from. If we have to give up a couple picks to finally get that FRANCHISE guy, I am all for it. 40 years of waiting is long enough in my opinion.

[joewillie78]

This is so untrue! After the 2010 season Rex let Schotty, and Sanchez AIR IT OUT all year, the only reason he has had 4 other years of "Archaic 1960's type offense" is because the QB is incapable of throwing the football, and completes more passes to the other team for TD's then to his own team!

If Rex had a QB he could trust I think he would have zero problem throwing 50 times a game if that's what it took to win, he just has never had one, and the one year he thought he did the QB did air it out A LOT, remember the Giants game 60 passing attempts!

Is the QB incapable in this system or are the QB's just bad? Tough question. You bring up a year where Schotty and Sanchez aired it out, why only 1 year when they were together for 3 years? Sanchez was only capable of airing it out one year, and not the rest, even 2 with Schotty? Makes no sense. What makes sense is Schotty tried airing it out and REX said NO, lets do ground n pound, and play 1960's football because I have a defense that can win games. Sorry, I dont buy  that any QB can thrive in a REX Ryan system. I just dont beieve it.

[SickJetFan]

let's say for argument sake he's there when the Jets pick (not gonna happen) 

 

Manziel is another air Raid QB. Why would the jets "move on" from Geno by drafting another Air Raid QB? 

 

the 3 most prominent Air Raid prospects ever were Nick Foles, Geno Smith and Johnny manziel.  there are other prospects like Case Keenum and Jeff Tuel but these are the big 3 so far. If the Jets drafted Manziel it means Marty Morn has drafted all 3 of these guys. 

 

i don't think that is fair to compare Geno Wiff to Foles or Johnny FB.  They may have played the same type of game but that doesn't mean a better Raid QB wont work.  Idk gambled and lost - he should have been drafting play makers last draft because it takes 3 years for a WR but he thew the dice and set himself back 2 years now.  Hopefully he can hit pay dirt with a WR and QB - Maybe it is a QB like Johnny FB and WR like Robinson .

[artemusclyde]

Is the QB incapable in this system or are the QB's just bad? Tough question. You bring up a year where Schotty and Sanchez aired it out, why only 1 year when they were together for 3 years? Sanchez was only capable of airing it out one year, and not the rest, even 2 with Schotty? Makes no sense. What makes sense is Schotty tried airing it out and REX said NO, lets do ground n pound, and play 1960's football because I have a defense that can win games. Sorry, I dont buy  that any QB can thrive in a REX Ryan system. I just dont beieve it.

 

I doubt Rex is as involved in the offense as you guys think. Have you listened to the offseason conferences and interviews? Rex was letting Marty basically run the offense, which is smart cause he doesn't know offense. The reason why we have sh*tty qb play is cause we suck at drafting qb's. Marty is a really good oc and schemes well, but once again crap talent is bringing this offense down.

[BroadwayJoe12]

I agree. The information you provided is compelling.

 

Can't tell if you're being serious or not, but if you watch the two games he played against LSU, Chavis' game-plan was to keep contain and not let Manziel get outside the pocket or up-field, which completely neutered him.  Kirby and Alabama have built a phenomenal defense, but every SEC fan knows that their one major weakness was a mobile quarterback, something we saw last year and this year. I'm not saying the kid can't develop into a decent QB, but the way he plays as of right now, is not at all conducive to the NFL, especially at his size. 

[CTM]

Can't tell if you're being serious or not, but if you watch the two games he played against LSU, Chavis' game-plan was to keep contain and not let Manziel get outside the pocket or up-field, which completely neutered him.  Kirby and Alabama have built a phenomenal defense, but every SEC fan knows that their one major weakness was a mobile quarterback, something we saw last year and this year. I'm not saying the kid can't develop into a decent QB, but the way he plays as of right now, is not at all conducive to the NFL, especially at his size. 

 

I was 100% serious. I think you have a point

[JustInFudge]

Can't tell if you're being serious or not, but if you watch the two games he played against LSU, Chavis' game-plan was to keep contain and not let Manziel get outside the pocket or up-field, which completely neutered him.  Kirby and Alabama have built a phenomenal defense, but every SEC fan knows that their one major weakness was a mobile quarterback, something we saw last year and this year. I'm not saying the kid can't develop into a decent QB, but the way he plays as of right now, is not at all conducive to the NFL, especially at his size. 

 

Holy sh*t man, so should the Jets be targeting anyone who had a good game vs. LSU?   So are Aaron Murrary and AJ McCarron better prospects because they shredded Chavis and his magical D?

[Matt39]

SEC is for fagz breh.

[JustInFudge]

SEC is for fagz breh.

 

Totally. 

 

ACC rules!

[BroadwayJoe12]

Holy sh*t man, so should the Jets be targeting anyone who had a good game vs. LSU?   So are Aaron Murrary and AJ McCarron better prospects because they shredded Chavis and his magical D?

 

Jif, my point was not to simply extol the virtues of LSU's defense, just point out the scheme that they employed against him was extremely effective. They may be one of the few teams who have the players to not only keep contain, but apply pressure with just four lineman. When they were able to do that, Manziel looked absolutely helpless when he wasn't able to scramble out of the pocket after his initial first 5 second of just standing free.  Watch all of his big plays, it's usually him dancing in the pocket for 5 or 6 seconds, followed by him rolling out and throwing to Mike Evans. That is not conducive to success in the NFL. 

 

Once again, this is not about how good a defense LSU is, it's about the scheme they employed that didn't only give Manziel is worst two college games, but made him look like a non-FBS QB thrown to the wolves. It'd be one thing if they just limited his production, but he simply looked pathetic: completing less than half his passes, throwing 5 ints to 1 td and doing almost nothing on the ground. He was neutered. 

 

Our defense wasn't even close to being as good this year as it has been in the past, especially on the back-end, which was why guys like Murray and McCarron played well, becuse they're pocket passers who exploited our weaknesses. Manziel couldn't do what they did, because his game is predicated on broken plays and back-yard football, when they were taken away, he looked lost. Again, I'm not saying he can't develop, but as of now, I don't see a star and anyone drafting him in the first round is going to be extremely sorry.

[JustInFudge]

Jif, my point was not to simply extol the virtues of LSU's defense, just point out the scheme that they employed against him was extremely effective. They may be one of the few teams who have the players to not only keep contain, but apply pressure with just four lineman. When they were able to do that, Manziel looked absolutely helpless when he wasn't able to scramble out of the pocket after his initial first 5 second of just standing free.  Watch all of his big plays, it's usually him dancing in the pocket for 5 or 6 seconds, followed by him rolling out and throwing to Mike Evans. That is not conducive to success in the NFL. 

 

Once again, this is not about how good a defense LSU is, it's about the scheme they employed that didn't only give Manziel is worst two college games, but made him look like a non-FBS QB thrown to the wolves. It'd be one thing if they just limited his production, but he simply looked pathetic: completing less than half his passes, throwing 5 ints to 1 td and doing almost nothing on the ground. He was neutered. 

 

Our defense wasn't even close to being as good this year as it has been in the past, especially on the back-end, which was why guys like Murray and McCarron played well, becuse they're pocket passers who exploited our weaknesses. Manziel couldn't do what they did, because his game is predicated on broken plays and back-yard football, when they were taken away, he looked lost. Again, I'm not saying he can't develop, but as of now, I don't see a star and anyone drafting him in the first round is going to be extremely sorry.

 

His OL was terrible and they had zero run game this season...so this was a good strategy by Chavis.  I get this isnt about how great LSU is, I understand your position.  I just think its ridiculous that you're basing your entire analysis of him on what he did vs. LSU while he diced up the rest of the league in historic fashion.

[SoFlaJets]

Pick an offensive player in the first round? What are you joshing me or what? There HAS to be a defensive lineman somewhere to take.

[joewillie78]

Pick an offensive player in the first round? What are you joshing me or what? There HAS to be a defensive lineman somewhere to take.

With the 7th pick in the 2014 NFL Draft, the New York Jets select Louis Nix III, D-lineman Notre Dame. Woo Hoo, way to go Rex.

[faba]

With the 7th pick in the 2014 NFL Draft, the New York Jets select Louis Nix III, D-lineman Notre Dame. Woo Hoo, way to go Rex.

Coming off a season ending injury- to top it off

[joewillie78]

Coming off a season ending injury- to top it off

Perfect, he can join Millner as another highly drafted injured defensive player. Cant wait. Whoops, sorry Bart.

[faba]

Perfect, he can join Millner as another highly drafted injured defensive player. Cant wait. Whoops, sorry Bart.

Our bikes need another player 

[joewillie78]

Our bikes need another player 

Now thats funny. Awesome.

[Integrity28]

I watched a "highlight" reel of Manziel on Youtube just now, it took about 3 minutes before they showed him throw a pass. Watching him run the ball, he reminds me of guys like Welker, or Edelman, and Tavon Austin. Quick moves, low center of gravity, 2nd gear to separate from people pursuing him in space, great vision.

 

His size concerns me a little. He doesn't look like he's built for the NFL. I'm not talking about his height necessarily... I'm talking about his build. His arms and torso look wimpy, his head looks like a pumpkin. He just looks undersized in his physique. Russell Wilson is short too, but there's no question when you look at him that he can take an NFL hit.

 

Even Brees, who is on the short size, who isn't overly muscular, looks like he can get up from a hit... something about Manziel looks fragile to me. I dunno. I haven't followed him much tbh, I haven't had time the past couple years for college football. 

 

Is it my imagination? Or is this part of the larger conversation around this guy?