Is the media completely overreacting about our corner back situation?

[JohnnnyBONES]

I understand that it is the media's job to drum up controversy, especially since the circus in town was canceled the moment Idzik accepted his job.  It's also clear that our corner back situation is our main area of concern, but isn't this getting a bit ridiculous?

 

Considering that some experts are already projecting Calvin Pryor as a potential DROY (http://goo.gl/0ddBw3) candidate, Dee Milliner proved he could be a DROY type prospect, Kyle Wilson (I know he can be frustrating at times BUT) was among the highest nickel defenders in the league and the impressive campaign put forth by Antonio Allen last year -- ONE could easily refer to our secondary as an up coming group of youngsters.  

 

 

Are they in win now, final product mode? Of course not.  Are the cornerstone pieces of the secondary's future already in place?  Yes.

 

 

I'm actually incredibly fired up about secondary and think they can develop into a beast of their own (over the next 2 seasons or so) that compliments their savage counterparts on the defensive line.

 

And here's the kicker...we're not even close to being in cap hell!

 

Sometimes it's hard for the media to see the forest through the woods, or maybe they'd prefer not to see it since it doesn't sell clicks.

 

 

 

 

 

[Jettington]

I've been wondering about this myself. And also, what does it say about the rest of the team when the only talked about point of weakness is the cornerback position? Maybe that means we are apparently in good shape otherwise. We'll find out soon enough if it's all just media driven drama. I do expect us to be better in the secondary than last year, we are better at safety with Pryor, Milliner is better than last year when healthy, the only real question mark is that corner opposite milliner.

[T0mShane]

Good post. I'm sure Rex will have some plan to compensate for the overall lack of talent at corner, but ultimately I think--like last year--the bough will break and teams will figure out how to exploit the 2 or 3 weak links. I don't think that Allen at CB is sustainable, and I'm equally nervous about Milliner's leg. Supposedly, he's walking without a limp, though. Still, going from walking without a limp to checking Jordy Nelson is not ideal. Remember, Milliner was getting ritually abused deep by Stephen Hill all summer before the injury. And Kyle Wilson will be Kyle Wilson, in that he'll make you puke. Bottom line, the season is entirely on Geno scoring a lot more points than we had hoped he'd have to produce.

[Jetsfan80]

Bottom line, the season is entirely on Geno scoring a lot more points than we had hoped he'd have to produce.

 

And our front 7 generating a ton of pressure.

[Integrity28]

"Is the media over-reacting...?"

 

Kind of answers itself, doesn't it?

[Obrien2Toon]

Rex has brainwashed everyone, especially our fan fan base that you build a Super Bowl champion through the CB position. And if you don't have 5 first round CB you're screwed.

[JohnnnyBONES]

Good post. I'm sure Rex will have some plan to compensate for the overall lack of talent at corner, but ultimately I think--like last year--the bough will break and teams will figure out how to exploit the 2 or 3 weak links. I don't think that Allen at CB is sustainable, and I'm equally nervous about Milliner's leg. Supposedly, he's walking without a limp, though. Still, going from walking without a limp to checking Jordy Nelson is not ideal. Remember, Milliner was getting ritually abused deep by Stephen Hill all summer before the injury. And Kyle Wilson will be Kyle Wilson, in that he'll make you puke. Bottom line, the season is entirely on Geno scoring a lot more points than we had hoped he'd have to produce.

 

 

Allen doesn't have to be sustainable at corner.  If anything, I think the exposure will only enhance his performance as a safety.  I'm no more worried about Milliner's ankle sprain as I am any player getting injured during any game.  That part of the NFL is a very unfortunate crap shoot.  I'm not sure about Stephen Hill ritually abusing Milliner either, that sounds like a Rich Cimini overreaction.  And Kyle Wilson, yes I wish he'd simply learn to turn his head, but statistically he's as strong as anyone covering the slot.  

[Sperm Edwards]

Rex has brainwashed everyone, especially our fan fan base that you build a Super Bowl champion through the CB position. And if you don't have 5 first round CB you're screwed.

 

Don't forget brainwashing the Giants, the Patriots, the Seahawks...

 

This attempt at building a winner around glue-like cover corners is stupid and shortsighted of the Jets when they do it and others don't, and it's stupid and shortsighted of the Jets when they don't and others do. 

[BroadwayJets]

Yes, they are.

[LionelRichie]

 

 

This attempt at building a winner around glue-like cover corners is stupid and shortsighted of the Jets when they do it and others don't, and it's stupid and shortsighted of the Jets when they don't and others do. 

 

90% of the game is half mental.  

[LionelRichie]

I understand that it is the media's job to drum up controversy, especially since the circus in town was canceled the moment Idzik accepted his job.  It's also clear that our corner back situation is our main area of concern, but isn't this getting a bit ridiculous?

 

 

 

the CB situation is abysmal and was totally avoidable.  

 

The Milliner injury was unpredictable and unfortunate.   Expecting Petterson to start at 1 CB position was bone-headed at best.    Wilson is not a good nickel and in desperate need of an upgrade, I doubt the Jets even re-sign him after 2014.   

 

Now the Jets head into week 1 with a converted Safety and UDFA starting at the 2 CB positions.   What happens if one of them gets hurt this week - who is the next man up?   One of the guys signed off the street this week?    

 

meanwhile there is 21M of unused cap space sitting in Woody's pocket.    If anything, the media has gone too easy on Idzik.   They've also given him a pass on cutting so many draft picks.    These are both pretty big deals when trying to build a winner.  

[bitonti]

I say this completely without sarcasm, but maybe Phillip Adams and Leon McFadden will be decent. 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

90% of the game is half mental.  

 

It always was. Somethings never change.

[FloridaJetsFan]

Preseason Optimism - even Browns fans have it ...

[slats]

The concerns about the Jets' CB situation are not overstated, IMHO.

The fact that they were relying on Milliner to be a #1 type CB before he got hurt was a risky play to begin with. Coming off the high ankle sprain, who knows if/when he'll get back to his DPOM levels of last December. With the cutting of Patterson, they completely whiffed in a strong free agent CB market. When Allen was drafted, there were questions about whether he'd have enough speed to play traditional safety coming from a hybrid LB job in college - and now he's a CB? The Jets are relying on him to be physical up front, disrupt the route, and hope the pass rush takes care of the rest. Walls was never meant to be a starter.

I'm just glad we have three NFC games in a row after the opener. If the Jets are going to be playoff contenders, I'd rather they get their early losses against NFC teams. I'd rest Milliner for as long as he needs to come back 100%, and try to scheme thru these first few games in the meantime.

[Sperm Edwards]

the CB situation is abysmal and was totally avoidable.  

 

The Milliner injury was unpredictable and unfortunate.   Expecting Petterson to start at 1 CB position was bone-headed at best.    Wilson is not a good nickel and in desperate need of an upgrade, I doubt the Jets even re-sign him after 2014.   

 

Now the Jets head into week 1 with a converted Safety and UDFA starting at the 2 CB positions.   What happens if one of them gets hurt this week - who is the next man up?   One of the guys signed off the street this week?    

 

meanwhile there is 21M of unused cap space sitting in Woody's pocket.    If anything, the media has gone too easy on Idzik.   They've also given him a pass on cutting so many draft picks.    These are both pretty big deals when trying to build a winner.  

 

People keep saying this but I don't believe that was the expectation. The expectation was for him to be a contingency plan in case the draftee was horrible, or to maybe start just the first 3-5 weeks until the rookie got up to speed. If a draftee won the job outright, then Patterson would be competing with Wilson for the nickel job.

 

This plan went out the window when McDougle busted his ACL, and went out the window into a boiling cauldron of lava when Patterson walked out before the last preseason game.

 

IMO the plan was:

• "#1 outside CB" Milliner
• "#2 outside CB" McDougle (or Patterson for about a month, then McDougle after that, or another round 3-4 rookie if McDougle wasn't the guy we drafted)
• Patterson or Wilson covering the slot receiver
• Once his starting job is taken, Patterson also serves as Milliner/McDougle backup while otherwise only playing nickel/dime packages or giving one of the other guys a breather. Being mostly off the field he would (theoretically) be less likely to sustain an impactful injury. Walls also would fill this role, and would be a pretty good plan as the 4th-5th CB.
• They also signed a few other UDFA or previously-released other guys in case one or more of them proves useful (Dowling, Reeves, etc.). If not, no harm done, as they weren't counting on one of them turning into something either way.

Is the plan as secure as signing Vontae Davis or someone else would have been? Nope. Not at all. But it's not anywhere near what it's been made out to be, like the position was totally ignored for the past 6 months, with absolutely no plan whatsoever.  There's also more than a sliver of chance that this would have yielded a good corner group. 

 

Now from this plan from the spring, for the upcoming week 1 game, delete the first 3 bullet-points from the active roster, and only bring back Milliner week 2 at the earliest. The last bullet-point yielded no one (which was expected, but you always take this no-risk chance). Then you have what we're putting on the field to start the season, including converting Antonio Allen to the position.

 

But to make comments, as many of you have done, as though Walls+Allen was the plan for corner all along (which is to say there was no plan at all from the start), is intellectually dishonest. Saying the plan was Milliner+Patterson all year isn't much better. Their plan for the #2 job was a combo of Patterson and a draftee, and neither will play a down for the team this season. 

[bitonti]

Their plan for the #2 job was a combo of Patterson and a draftee, and neither will play a down for the team this season. 

 

Maybe the should have drafted a player who played football last year.

[Sperm Edwards]

Maybe the should have drafted a player who played football last year.

 

Yawn. They drafted a good kid with a season-ending shoulder injury that was (and is) totally healed. 

[SayNoToDMC]

Don't forget brainwashing the Giants, the Patriots, the Seahawks...

This attempt at building a winner around glue-like cover corners is stupid and shortsighted of the Jets when they do it and others don't, and it's stupid and shortsighted of the Jets when they don't and others do.

If we had Russell Wilson or Tom Brady under center the decision to pay lock down corner money looks completely different.

[slats]

But to make comments, as many of you have done, as though Walls+Allen was the plan for corner all along (which is to say there was no plan at all from the start), is intellectually dishonest. Saying the plan was Milliner+Patterson all year isn't much better. Their plan for the #2 job was a combo of Patterson and a draftee, and neither will play a down for the team this season.

Whatever the plan was, that's the situation today. And the situation today is pretty dire.

I think they put too much faith in three injury prone CBs. The Patterson signing was a disaster - he sucked before he went AWOL. Throwing a few more million Davis' way would've looked pretty good right about now. Really, signing just one decent, durable CB in free agency would've looked pretty good right now.

[JohnnnyBONES]

I guess my point was that the overall situation in the secondary as a whole is very promising for the future. If we were asking the team to win the Super Bowl tomorrow, yes, we would be in dire shape to do so but Cornerback would not be the #1 reason you list why.

[LionelRichie]

People keep saying this but I don't believe that was the expectation. The expectation was for him to be a contingency plan in case the draftee was horrible, or to maybe start just the first 3-5 weeks until the rookie got up to speed. If a draftee won the job outright, then Patterson would be competing with Wilson for the nickel job.

 

This plan went out the window when McDougle busted his ACL, and went out the window into a boiling cauldron of lava when Patterson walked out before the last preseason game.

 

IMO the plan was:

• "#1 outside CB" Milliner
• "#2 outside CB" McDougle (or Patterson for about a month, then McDougle after that, or another round 3-4 rookie if McDougle wasn't the guy we drafted)
• Patterson or Wilson covering the slot receiver
• Once his starting job is taken, Patterson also serves as Milliner/McDougle backup while otherwise only playing nickel/dime packages or giving one of the other guys a breather. Being mostly off the field he would (theoretically) be less likely to sustain an impactful injury. Walls also would fill this role, and would be a pretty good plan as the 4th-5th CB.

Is the plan as secure as signing Vontae Davis or someone else would have been? Nope. Not at all. But it's not anywhere near what it's been made out to be, like the position was totally ignored for the past 6 months, with absolutely no plan whatsoever.  There's also more than a sliver of chance that this would have yielded a good corner group. 

....

 

But to make comments, as many of you have done, as though Walls+Allen was the plan for corner all along (which is to say there was no plan at all from the start), is intellectually dishonest. Saying the plan was Milliner+Patterson all year isn't much better. Their plan for the #2 job was a combo of Patterson and a draftee, and neither will play a down for the team this season. 

 

I don't think this was the plan at all.   I think Idzik had a general plan but failed to execute in FA and this somehow "became the plan".

 

You actually made my point for me.   Patterson + a draft pick - what if BAP dictates the Jets don't draft a CB until rd 6?   This evolving 'CB plan' forced the Jets to reach for a CB in rd 3 rather than Idzik's consistent message of BAP.    After taking S/TE with the first 2 picks the Jets had no choice but to go CB in RD 3 or risk having nothing at all to compete for a spot.   the fact that this 'became' the plan (in May not February) is even more of an indictment of the job Idzik did this off-season.

 

The plan (in Feb) had to be a FA signing or trading picks for a CB.   When the market was higher than Idzik expected he didn't adjust and had a pretty poor backup plan which led us to where we are.    I'm not saying that Idzik has done a terrible job - he hasn't.   I'm saying that he could have and should have done a better job with so much cap space and so many draft picks.   

[slats]

I don't think this was the plan at all.   I think Idzik had a general plan but failed to execute in FA and this somehow "became the plan".

 

You actually made my point for me.   Patterson + a draft pick - what if BAP dictates the Jets don't draft a CB until rd 6?   This evolving 'CB plan' forced the Jets to reach for a CB in rd 3 rather than Idzik's consistent message of BAP.    After taking S/TE with the first 2 picks the Jets had no choice but to go CB in RD 3 or risk having nothing at all to compete for a spot.   the fact that this 'became' the plan (in May not February) is even more of an indictment of the job Idzik did this off-season.

 

The plan (in Feb) had to be a FA signing or trading picks for a CB.   When the market was higher than Idzik expected he didn't adjust and had a pretty poor backup plan which led us to where we are.    I'm not saying that Idzik has done a terrible job - he hasn't.   I'm saying that he could have and should have done a better job with so much cap space and so many draft picks.

Say You, Say Me

[Sperm Edwards]

If we had Russell Wilson or Tom Brady under center the decision to pay lock down corner money looks completely different.

 

Absolutely. In March, when the corners people wanted were available, there were 2 QBs on the Jets roster: Geno Smith and Mark Sanchez. Smith was faaaaar from a guarantee to be the opening day starter, the only deal Vick seemed agreeable to was one that guaranteed he would be the starting QB without question, and Sanchez was Sanchez (after sitting out the season to boot).

 

It's much easier to say everything else is in place knowing what the QB situation is in August, with the benefit of hindsight. 

 

Whatever the plan was, that's the situation today. And the situation today is pretty dire.

I think they put too much faith in three injury prone CBs. The Patterson signing was a disaster - he sucked before he went AWOL. Throwing a few more million Davis' way would've looked pretty good right about now. Really, signing just one decent, durable CB in free agency would've looked pretty good right now.

 

Yes it is. But it's been framed, over and over, that this situation was the plan. Or this situation plus Patterson, who presumably wouldn't have lasted a month anyway.

 

I don't know if Davis wanted to leave in the first place. Unless you mean a few million more per year ($13M/year) for a guy who was traded to Indy for showing up to practice drunk, and who wasn't even a consensus top 50-performing corner the season before last. His 2012 season was on par with Cromartie's 2013 season.  He wasn't guaranteed to do well here. Just guaranteed to pocket a lot of cash.

 

No doubt that no matter what Idzik stubbornly says publicly, I'm sure he'd love a do-over at the position this season. So would the rest of us.

[slats]

Yes it is. But it's been framed, over and over, that this situation was the plan. Or this situation plus Patterson, who presumably wouldn't have lasted a month anyway.

 

I don't know if Davis wanted to leave in the first place. Unless you mean a few million more per year ($13M/year) for a guy who was traded to Indy for showing up to practice drunk, and who wasn't even a consensus top 50-performing corner the season before last. His 2012 season was on par with Cromartie's 2013 season.  He wasn't guaranteed to do well here. Just guaranteed to pocket a lot of cash.

 

No doubt that no matter what Idzik stubbornly says publicly, I'm sure he'd love a do-over at the position this season. So would the rest of us.

I don't know who's doing that framing. I haven't. At least, not to my knowledge.

And I meant a few more million over the life of the deal - upfront. According to Jason, he got a four year, $36M deal with a $5M signing bonus. The identical contract with $8M or $9M upfront instead of $5M probably could've gotten a deal done. Davis may've wanted to stay in Indy, but he'd also know that Rex would've made him a household name (in addition to a few extra million lining his pockets).

[Sperm Edwards]

I don't think this was the plan at all.   I think Idzik had a general plan but failed to execute in FA and this somehow "became the plan".

 

You actually made my point for me.   Patterson + a draft pick - what if BAP dictates the Jets don't draft a CB until rd 6?   This evolving 'CB plan' forced the Jets to reach for a CB in rd 3 rather than Idzik's consistent message of BAP.    After taking S/TE with the first 2 picks the Jets had no choice but to go CB in RD 3 or risk having nothing at all to compete for a spot.   the fact that this 'became' the plan (in May not February) is even more of an indictment of the job Idzik did this off-season.

 

The plan (in Feb) had to be a FA signing or trading picks for a CB.   When the market was higher than Idzik expected he didn't adjust and had a pretty poor backup plan which led us to where we are.    I'm not saying that Idzik has done a terrible job - he hasn't.   I'm saying that he could have and should have done a better job with so much cap space and so many draft picks.   

 

OK, well we disagree then. I do not believe - and I mean I don't actually believe, not that I don't want to believe - that the team had planned on Patterson starting 16 games for them.

 

I think they targeted McDougle as the guy they wanted, and probably took him a round earlier than they would have ideally liked to guarantee getting him. But if they didn't they didn't, and would have taken someone else. Rookie corners do play in the NFL.

 

I agree he could have - and in hindsight knowing what we know now about the injuries, should have - done more at the position.  The only one he seemed to be interested in locking the team into for big money was Davis. DRC he would have been ok with as a year to year thing but neither has a history of sustained success. Or much of any type of real success outside of 2013.  Revis was not an option, no matter how many times it gets repeated. The guy has a history of long, drawn out contract negotiations and yet he had a signed deal within 30 minutes of hitting free agency. He wasn't going anywhere else unless the Jets offered him in excess of $14M (and it's no guarantee that even gets it done since he was NE's prime "missing piece" for the upcoming season and they'd clearly been negotiating with him for some time). One of the things Revis wants is to get his max amount every year. IMO he feels that helping the Patriots get a SB will get him the most a year later (so he can be the very expensive missing piece for true SB teams like Deion was in the 90s).

 

There were other guys than Patterson, of course, and in hindsight with all these injuries he should have gone with one of them. He did make an effort to sign Davis, who it seems didn't want to leave Indy after all, and was just using us to get them to match (which is, at best, all we'd have gotten out of a Revis negotiation). 

[Sperm Edwards]

I don't know who's doing that framing. I haven't. At least, not to my knowledge.

And I meant a few more million over the life of the deal - upfront. According to Jason, he got a four year, $36M deal with a $5M signing bonus. The identical contract with $8M or $9M upfront instead of $5M probably could've gotten a deal done. Davis may've wanted to stay in Indy, but he'd also know that Rex would've made him a household name (in addition to a few extra million lining his pockets).

 

Not you, but there are plenty of people who have said there was no plan in place for the position, and have absolutely framed Walls + Allen as the plan after having "ignored" the CB position all offseason.

[JiFtheOracle]

I guess my point was that the overall situation in the secondary as a whole is very promising for the future. If we were asking the team to win the Super Bowl tomorrow, yes, we would be in dire shape to do so but Cornerback would not be the #1 reason you list why.

 

If Milliner doesnt get injured, I dont think the CB situation gets blown out of proportion that way it has here lately.  The fact that he went down and McDougle went down for the year on the same day is the major cause for the hysteria.  Then you couple the Patterson debacle in and its the cherry on the top.

 

Overall, I agree with you, the Jets have a promising young secondary when healthy.  I'd say they have the best safeties they've had since Rex took over and that they should help cover some of the pains at CB that they're going to experience early.  They're 2 corners down, most teams are going to be effected by that type of injury to their depth chart.  That said,  I'm kind of shocked a veteran hasnt been called in to the hold the fort until Miliner is ready and possibly stick around if they play well...like a Champ Bailey.  But maybe they really like McFadden and Adams?  Who knows.

 

Its all on the front 7 right now for this defense.  They have to make a mess of games and help the secondary out.  Demario Davis is going to have to live up to this great coverage LB that he's supposed to be.  I'm confident Rex can scheme something up.  We're talking about a guy who had Drew Coleman lined up at DE on the road in the playoffs vs. a HOF and it worked. 

[Maxman]

I understand that it is the media's job to drum up controversy, especially since the circus in town was canceled the moment Idzik accepted his job.  It's also clear that our corner back situation is our main area of concern, but isn't this getting a bit ridiculous?

 

Considering that some experts are already projecting Calvin Pryor as a potential DROY (http://goo.gl/0ddBw3) candidate, Dee Milliner proved he could be a DROY type prospect, Kyle Wilson (I know he can be frustrating at times BUT) was among the highest nickel defenders in the league and the impressive campaign put forth by Antonio Allen last year -- ONE could easily refer to our secondary as an up coming group of youngsters.  

 

 

Are they in win now, final product mode? Of course not.  Are the cornerstone pieces of the secondary's future already in place?  Yes.

 

 

I'm actually incredibly fired up about secondary and think they can develop into a beast of their own (over the next 2 seasons or so) that compliments their savage counterparts on the defensive line.

 

And here's the kicker...we're not even close to being in cap hell!

 

Sometimes it's hard for the media to see the forest through the woods, or maybe they'd prefer not to see it since it doesn't sell clicks.

 

Great thread.  The way it is being discussed now I agree it is being blow out of proportion. That said, the secondary can be better than people expect and the Jets would still ahve a problem. That is how low expectations are.

 

But like you said, Milliner is coming back. And I think Walls can be a solid # 2 guy. There just doesn't seem to be a lot of depth, so these new guys are going to have to step up in a hurry.

[jetfuel]

I think how well the secondary performs all depends on how healthy Milliner is. He really seems to have "gotten it" judging by how he looked down the stretch last season and by his limited action in the preseason. I also think that Walls can be a lot better than the consensus seems to give him credit for. I have been wanting to see him get a shot for a while now and think he should have taken playing time away from Cro last year. I am optimistic about Allen playing as a physical CB too although time will tell how well he can keep up in coverage. I really wish McDougle would have avoided injury because the kid has skills but I guess we will have to wait until next year on him. I am feeling pretty good about the safety group as a whole. The main thing is that the entire D is going to have to play well as a unit and the pass rush is going to have to compensate for some of the weaknesses at CB. Fingers and toes crossed!!! 

[neckdemon]

It's probably being overstated. Not because we have a good situation, but because having lock down corners is a luxury, not a necessity. The 3 basic building blocks to win are:

1 - good qb

2 - great pass protection

3 - great pass rush

If you have a very good qb and can dominate the trenches, you will have a good team. No matter how good your corners are they can't cover forever so you need a pass rush. The reason we'very needed great corners is because our rush has nor been good enough. We also haven't had good qb play nor very good pass protection.

[stoicsentry]

No, Allen himself said he's not ready to start at CB. That's a problem. You can't rely on guys that admit they don't know what they're doing at the position they were unwillingly pushed into.

[The Crusher]

No, Allen himself said he's not ready to start at CB. That's a problem. You can't rely on guys that admit they don't know what they're doing at the position they were unwillingly pushed into.

No that's a situation.  It's only a problem if he struggles Sunday.   I think he surprises everyone and himself.

[stoicsentry]

No that's a situation.  It's only a problem if he struggles Sunday.   I think he surprises everyone and himself.

 

I hope so man. Not sure who he has to cover on Sunday, anyway. I'd be much more worried in week 2 and beyond. Hopefully Milliner stuns us all by coming back for the Green Bay game.

[PatsFanTX]

No, Allen himself said he's not ready to start at CB. That's a problem. You can't rely on guys that admit they don't know what they're doing at the position they were unwillingly pushed into.

 

Jets could easily lead the NFL in plays given up 20+ yards.

 

With the inexperience in the secondary, and Rex getting burned on his blitzes, Jets will give up some very long gainers.