Manning or Brady?

[RichardSeymour]

No, I'm not trolling here, but this is a BITTERLY disputed topic on a lot of messageboards, and I'm curious what the consensus here is....

and hey, it's the offseason. Plus unlike Brady vs Pennington it's a real argument...

So who's the better QB?

[Maxman]

People are debating who is the better QB? On messageboards? Really?

I has no idea that www.iluvtombrady.com had a message board on it.

[l_j_r]

... can't argue with the rings...

l_j_r

[Garb]

Manning has a sweeter pass, a better play action and stronger arm. Brady is a better leader, is better under pressure and has done more with less offenseive talent around him. I give the slight edge to Brady for having the "It" factor. - of course, I'm biased... :wink:

[Rob D]

Although Brady has 3 rings, I have to say Peyton Manning.

If he had the Patriots' defence playing with him instead of against him then he could easily go 19-0.

[PETROCK]

As great of a QB Manning is and if I were a HC I would love to have him on my team, but he has never made it to a SB.

As much as it pains me to say it, I would have to go with Brady because he knows how to win.

Uuuuh I can't believe I gave props to a Pats player.

[GimmeShelter]

Played out topic.

Everyone knows Mannings post-season resume.

Until that improves this old and boring. If you need a re-confirmtion on Brady's status, this would be better served posted on a Colts board.

[DeanPatsFan]

Brady is the best big game QB in the NFL, while Manning is the biggest big game choker in the NFL.

Brady wins hands down.

[RichardSeymour]

Played out topic.

Everyone knows Mannings post-season resume.

Until that improves this old and boring. If you need a re-confirmtion on Brady's status, this would be better served posted on a Colts board.

One would think so but on most boards it's split right down the middle, there's hardly a consensus.

[shawn306]

This is the same as the Nomar-Jeter debates. Do you want the guy with the rings or the numbers ?

I will always take Jeter based on his rings and his ability to perform in the post season.

Brady gets the nod. Manning has the numbers, Brady has the rings. Brady though has proven to be one of if not THE best post season QB of all-time.

[PFSIKH]

Although Brady has 3 rings, I have to say Peyton Manning.

If he had the Patriots' defence playing with him instead of against him then he could easily go 19-0.

No, they would go 16-0 and then in the first round of the playoffs he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would throw three or four picks and lose.

[GoJETS]

Manning has to do more than Brady for his team to win. No doubt Brady is a great QB but he plays on a better team than Manning. If Manning played on the Patriots his record would be just as good as Brady's and his numbers would be closer to Brady's than the number he puts up.

This is why some of the better fantasy QB's are not always on the best teams.

Remember Ray Lucas as a QB? He sucked plain and simple yet the Jets won 8 games that year because they had a grat team - a SB caliber team.

[PFSIKH]

Manning has to do more than Brady for his team to win. No doubt Brady is a great QB but he plays on a better team than Manning. If Manning played on the Patriots his record would be just as good as Brady's and his numbers would be closer to Brady's than the number he puts up.

This is why some of the better fantasy QB's are not always on the best teams.

Remember Ray Lucas as a QB? He sucked plain and simple yet the Jets won 8 games that year because they had a grat team - a SB caliber team.

That only goes so far.

A QB is ultimately judged by how he does in the playoffs. Despite a clear inbalance in talent, Brady has never had the choke job Peyton has. Conversely, Peyton has never had a shining moment like Brady. No game winning drives.

Think about it. If Eugene Wilson does not drop a pick, the 4th highest scoring offense in league history would have been shutout by a team missing their to two corners and has to employ a WR at nickel/dime back.

[GoJETS]

"That only goes so far.

A QB is ultimately judged by how he does in the playoffs."

True, but that doesn't mean it's correct!

"Think about it. If Eugene Wilson does not drop a pick, the 4th highest scoring offense in league history would have been shutout by a team missing their to two corners and has to employ a WR at nickel/dime back."

That's one game. If Manning isn't as good he is the Colts aren't even a playoff team. If he's out for an exteded time and they go to the backup they not even competitive. Brady comes out (like Bledsoe) and Rohan Davey comes in, NE is competitive. Not necessarily a playoff team but a good, competitive team.

Manning is very similar to Dan Marino. His teams have great offenses but the defenses are not championship caliber and they are on the field a lot because the offense scores quickly.

Come from behind game winning drives are nice but what if QB's aren't put in those situations - let's say they score first and lead the whole game. Would the QB not be good?

To say Manning is not an outstanding QB is like saying Ladainian Tomlinson and Shawn Alexander are not good RB's.

[GimmeShelter]

One would think so but on most boards it's split right down the middle, there's hardly a consensus.

There's always going to be more talented QB's than Brady, just as was the case with Montana.

Big game, you want Montana and Brady.

[Jetsfan80]

It's easy to say that if Brady had to face the Patriot defense and Manning face the Colts, things would be different. It's also easy to say that New England out-coaches everyone, and therefore makes it easy for Brady to win games.

But the fact remains that Tom Brady has not been the losing quarterback in a postseason game. It is impossible to make the judgement based on speculation that Manning is the better quarterback when that fact is staring you right in the face.

[PFSIKH]

"That only goes so far.

A QB is ultimately judged by how he does in the playoffs."

True, but that doesn't mean it's correct!

"Think about it. If Eugene Wilson does not drop a pick, the 4th highest scoring offense in league history would have been shutout by a team missing their to two corners and has to employ a WR at nickel/dime back."

That's one game. If Manning isn't as good he is the Colts aren't even a playoff team. If he's out for an exteded time and they go to the backup they not even competitive. Brady comes out (like Bledsoe) and Rohan Davey comes in, NE is competitive. Not necessarily a playoff team but a good, competitive team.

Manning is very similar to Dan Marino. His teams have great offenses but the defenses are not championship caliber and they are on the field a lot because the offense scores quickly.

Come from behind game winning drives are nice but what if QB's aren't put in those situations - let's say they score first and lead the whole game. Would the QB not be good?

To say Manning is not an outstanding QB is like saying Ladainian Tomlinson and Shawn Alexander are not good RB's.

I am not saying he sucks.

If that was the only game Manning had sucked in, that would be one thing, but he has sucked in the playoffs other times.

1999 - He led Colts to the 3rd highest scoring offense in the league, against the 15th ranked defense in points allowed, he goes 19-43 for 227 yards and scores 10 points under their season average in a 19-16 loss to the Titans.

2000 - Against the 3rd ranked scoring defense, Peyton is held in check by the Phins, 194 yards in a 23-17 loss.

2002 - Against the 14th ranked scoring defense, his team is shutout. He manages 137 yards passing and two picks.

2003 - After beating Denver and KC, he throws four picks as the #2 offense is held to 14 points in a 24-14 loss.

2004 - 3 points.

See a pattern? It is not just one game. He has played bad in quite a few games. If he was losing 45-42 that would be one thing, but his losses outside of the Jets game, his defense has allowed 19, 23, 24 and 20. Those are not too high especially for a QB that averages 4000 yards and over 30 TDs a season.

[jetgreen13]

No, I'm not trolling here, but this is a BITTERLY disputed topic on a lot of messageboards, and I'm curious what the consensus here is....

and hey, it's the offseason. Plus unlike Brady vs Pennington it's a real argument...

So who's the better QB?

...had to get in a free shot at pennington, huh? anyway, brady vs. manning is a tough call. brady has all the rings, but manning plays on a team with a non superbowl D. IMO, if they had flipped flopped teams 4 years ago, manning would have had similar success. slight edge to manning.

[Jetfan13]

don't know, don't care...

but I will say this: If Manning had the patsie* defense, hell, if he had ANY defense, this question would be a moot point

[JonEJet]

No, they would go 16-0 and then in the first round of the playoffs he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would **choke** he would throw three or four picks and lose.

So you actually admit Manning is a choker?

SO does that make Brady better, or does it mean his team IS LUCKY, for a non-choking Manning obviously BEATS the Pats

I think the former. Manning is the better QB, but for whatever reason when he meets the Pats he chokes like Max going down on tom

What it also says is the Pats are lucky....because a Peyton on a good day, beats Tomm on a good day...if it were not for the choke

[PFSIKH]

I am beginniing to think Jets' fans would not know a good QB if he came up and bit them in the a$$.

If Peyton's defense gave up 10 points he would find a way to score 9.

He faced his arch nemsis in the playoffs. A chance to validate himself. He gets the ball first and goes three and out. Completes a two yard pass on 3rd and 4.

His defense holds the Patriotsm he goes three and out again, this time going 0-2.

His defense holds the Patriots a third time. He gets the ball and moves into Patriots territory. He ends the drive with two incompletes.

The Patriots finally drive and take a 3-0 lead. 3 plays minus 12 yards.

The Patriots drive again and take a 6-0 lead. Drive ends with Rhodes fumble.

Peyton finally drives and is left off the hook when Wilson drops the INT in the endzone. He gets a FG.

The Colts defense holds the Patriots to a 3 and out to start the second half. Peyton has a 5 play drive that ends with a 3 yard completeion on a 3rd and 4.

The Patriots take a 13-3 lead. Peyton ends a 5 play drive with two incompletes. So 26 seconds into the 4th quarter, his defense has only allowed 13 points to a team that averaged 27.

Similar scenario in 2003. Patriots score. Peyton throws a pick in the endzone. Patriots score. Peyton throws a pick.

The only team I would want Peyton on is my fantasy football team.

[GoJETS]

I'll just add that playoff football is different than regular season.

It's still a team game and football always will be.

In 2004 championship game the Patriot defense took the Colt receivers out of the game the same way they did against the Rams in the SB. You don't seem to give the Patriots defense and coaching staff any credit - only Tom Brady. Belichick coached defenses have given many excellent offenses trouble - think Joe Gibbs' Redskins, Bill Walsh/Joe Montana's 49ers.

I guess you would take Jake Delhomme over Manning in because he moved the ball better than Manning?

Dolphins beat Patriots late in the season when Brady tried to force that pass late in the game and he got picked off. That certainly doesn't make AJ Feeley better than Tom Brady.

[Jetsfan80]

I am beginniing to think Jets' fans would not know a good QB if he came up and bit them in the a$$.

And I am beginning to think you are the biggest dick among all the Patriot trolls.

[PatsFanTX]

And I am beginning to think you are the biggest d!ck among all the Patriot trolls.

There are no Patriot trolls on this message board.

Only highly intelligent, extremely knowledgable Pats fans who try and bring the smallest sliver of objectivity to each and every discussion because we all know Jet fans have no clue what the word "objective" means. :wink:

[YJF]

Brady is better than Manning.

Manning has a slight edge in the throwing department. He's got a better arm, better accuracy. He's a better playfaker.

Both QB's are not that mobile. BUT Brady's footwork in the pocket is better than Manning's. Peyton struggles mightily when forced to move. Brady excels in this area. Brady might be the best in The NFL at resetting in the pocket and readjusting.

All the intangibles go to Brady. Brady is tougher mentally and physically than Manning is.

The real difference between The two QB's is this.

When you break Manning's rythym or mess with his timing. His whole game is off. He needs everything to be perfect. Peyton is too mechanical. When the machine is working, He's unstoppable but just throw one little wrench into his machine and watch him break down.

Throw what you want at Tom Brady. He almost never gets rattled.

I'd take Tom Brady.

[PatsFanTX]

When you break Manning's rythym or mess with his timing. His whole game is off. He needs everything to be perfect. Peyton is too mechanical. When the machine is working, He's unstoppable but just throw one little wrench into his machine and watch him break down.

That is a damn good analysis of Manning.

[YJF]

That is a damn good analysis of Manning.

Thanks.

It's amazing to me how different Peyton is from his father Archie. Who was a very good QB in his own right.

His dad was not only very good at running and throwing on the move but Archie had the ability to make plays on the fly. The ability to improvise. Peyton can't.

I'm not trying to dog Peyton Manning here. You can't have a discussion about the best QB in the game without his name being involved in the discussion.

He's a hall of famer who when he is on his game is as good as any QB in the history of The NFL.

I'd just take Brady over him. Brady's the best player in The NFL.

[Jetfan13]

There are no Patriot trolls on this message board.

Only highly intelligent, extremely knowledgable Pats fans who try and bring the smallest sliver of objectivity to each and every discussion because we all know Jet fans have no clue what the word "objective" means. :wink:

objectivity from a patsie* view point..we will see how objective you are when your patsies* fall back to the middle of the pack again..

[l_j_r]

YoungJetsFan

... out of curiosity, how old are you ?

... you always have insightful, well thought out and supported posts ... both about the current players in the nfl & it seems that your knowledge of previous generations is strong too ...

... i'm curious if there is a little lamont_jordan_rules to your name of YoungJetsFan :wink: ... in terms of not being quite as applicable as it once was...

l_j_r

[YJF]

YoungJetsFan

... out of curiosity, how old are you ?

... you always have insightful, well thought out and supported posts ... both about the current players in the nfl & it seems that your knowledge of previous generations is strong too ...

... i'm curious if there is a little lamont_jordan_rules to your name of YoungJetsFan :wink: ... in terms of not being quite as applicable as it once was...

l_j_r

I just recently turned 24. So I am not really that young anymore. LOL

I've been watching football since I was 5 years old. I played it in high school. I love the game. When you follow something so closely for nearly 20 years. You can't help but study and analyze everything.

Thanks for the compliments.

[PFSIKH]

I'll just add that playoff football is different than regular season.

It's still a team game and football always will be.

In 2004 championship game the Patriot defense took the Colt receivers out of the game the same way they did against the Rams in the SB. You don't seem to give the Patriots defense and coaching staff any credit - only Tom Brady. Belichick coached defenses have given many excellent offenses trouble - think Joe Gibbs' Redskins, Bill Walsh/Joe Montana's 49ers.

I guess you would take Jake Delhomme over Manning in because he moved the ball better than Manning?

Dolphins beat Patriots late in the season when Brady tried to force that pass late in the game and he got picked off. That certainly doesn't make AJ Feeley better than Tom Brady.

Good points.

Actually, I give the coaches a lot of credit. All of Peyton's post season failure can not be attributed solely to the defense though. He has to shoulder some of the blame. His defense gave up less then their season average to the Patriots and they still lost. In his four losses outside of the Jets game, his defense gave up just over 21 points. AGain, for a QB that throws for 4000 yards and 30 TDs per season and has a 1500 yard back behind him, 21 points should not be that big of a problem.

You actually brought up a good point as did YJF. What about Delhomme? He was pounded for the first 25 minutes of the game. He started 1-9 for minus -1 yard and a fumble that led to the first score. If that was Peyton, the Patriots win the Superbowl 38-7. However, Delhomme showed something Peyton has never shown. An ability to get up off the ground when knocked down.

Maybe my tone is mistaken about Peyton. I think he is really good. However, he seems to have a phobia against New England. Like Florida was his curse when he was at Tenneessee. I am also not saying Brady is perfect. Far from it. Just about everyone of his passes flutter. He is slower then cement, but when he needs to, he answers the bell. Yes, his defense boosts his won/loss record, but when it fails, his won/loss record is better then most QBs (i.e. he raises his game).

[RichardSeymour]

YJF is dead on in his analysis in this thread.

[YJF]

YJF is dead on in his analysis in this thread.

Thanks RS.

The true measure of a great QB is not how he plays when everything is clicking.

The true measure of a great QB is how he performs when everything breaks down or starts to crumble around him.

Stats can often times be very misleading. That's why watching the games is so important.

I've seen QB's go 25 of 32 for 240 yards and 2tds but in those moments of break down. They can't overcome the obstacles set in front of them.

Unfortunately, That's My QB right now. As much as I love him as a person and player. He doesn't always rise to the occasion when things look bleak. He needs things around him to be good in order for him to succeed.

Until the day, I see him do it. I can't put the great label anywhere near him.

You don't have to win a superbowl to be a great QB. To me, Dan Marino is a great QB. Because I saw him carry his team even in losses. I probably gained more respect for him in losses than I did in his wins. All accomplished QB's have bad games. It's how they play those games that are very revealing.

The way, Peyton Manning acted during that Pats game to me was very telling. He was scared and tentative. Atleast when Brett Favre stinks up the joint. He goes down swinging. You can pick him off 19 straight times and he'll keep taking shots at you.

John Elway to me is an all time GREAT QB. One of the best ever. Thought that before he won a superbowl. WHY? Because I saw him time after time make big plays in crucial situations when things appeared to be bleak.

[afosomf]

i take manning over cindy in a flash

remember cindy has not played vs a Mumbles D, manning

would have won the same or more if he was with Chowds. cindy would have done nada in indy.

i bet 90% of GM's would take PM given everything was equal.

[YJF]

i take manning over cindy in a flash

remember cindy has not played vs a Mumbles D, manning

would have won the same or more if he was with Chowds. cindy would have done nada in indy.

i bet 90% of GM's would take PM given everything was equal.

If you are going to base it on physical skills. Everybody would take Manning.

Physically, I'd take Jim Kelly over Joe Montana. Every scout would. But who is the better QB? Montana is.

Peyton Manning is a hall of fame QB who will shatter every record before his career is over.

But in the big game, Give me Brady. I take him over Peyton because of his leadership qualities and what he does in the clutch.

Everybody loves playing The What If game.

What if Tom Brady played all his games indoors and played with The Colts offensive players?

How's that for a what if?

In big games, Peyton comes up small. In outdoor games where there is poor weather, Manning comes up small.

You gotta credit The Pats defense for Manning's big game struggles. No question about it. But in every big game in his career where Peyton was relied upon to come up big. Ever since college, He's come up small.