Is Geno Smith a GOOD DEEP BALL THROWER?

[predator_05]

The guys wanting Geno understand it's a guy in year 3 VS a guy in year 11 with much more physical tools.  If the Jets had sh*t at WR then yes I think Fitz would be the better option, but with the weapons at WR Geno is the way to go

Why?

Do you really think Geno with Marshall & Decker would exceed what Fitz did with Andre Johnson & Hopkins last year?

Fitz in 12 games last year:

2483 yards, 17 TDs and 8 INT w/ a completion % of 63.

Fitz has already proven he can play reasonably well when he has 2 good WRs. He got a 1200 yard season out of Hopkins, he got a near 1000 season out of Johnson. 

I'm guessing those are the kind of stats our coaches were expecting when they got Fitz in the first place.

 

 

[Jetsfan80]

No it didnt, it said that those QB also had bad receiving corps, however Geno had the worst in the NFL in 2013 along with revolving doors at LG and RG. 

No one is saying that Geno is good. Im on record saying that we should have traded for a young starting QB. What this guy is doing is skewing information because he's making it seem like all of the passing game's fault was on Geno when we know that Jeff Cumberland, David Nelson, Santonio Holmes, Jeremy Kerley and Stephen Hill wasnt cutting it. 

You dont know if the grass is greener on the other side or not. Geno hasnt been on the field with Smith, Decker and Marshall. You dont know if Geno can could function in Gailey's system or not because you havent seen him in the system. 

This is the problem with all of this "certainty". Im not saying that Geno is no our franchise guy, but Fitzpatrick, a guy who is experienced in this system, isnt keeping Geno at bay with his performance. And for the fact that it was confirmed that Geno was looking better than Fitz during training camp I feel like some people here are disregarding that conveniently because I bet if Geno had that game last night and it was Fitz who had a better training camp these same guys would be screaming about how we should put in Fitzpatrick because he was outperforming Geno in training camp. You and I both know it. 

 

If we beat Miami this week, we're 3-1 at the bye.  Of course he's keeping Geno at bay.  Everyone says the guy is a career loser yet in 2/3 games he performed well enough to help the team win.  Unless that trend stops he'll be the starter.

Geno's receivers only have a lot to do with his performance to those who are ignoring his flaws.  He has routinely come to play looking confused and unable to lead a team.  Brandon Marshall isn't going to fix that.

 

[Lupz27]

No it didnt, it said that those QB also had bad receiving corps, however Geno had the worst in the NFL in 2013 along with revolving doors at LG and RG. 

No one is saying that Geno is good. Im on record saying that we should have traded for a young starting QB. What this guy is doing is skewing information because he's making it seem like all of the passing game's fault was on Geno when we know that Jeff Cumberland, David Nelson, Santonio Holmes, Jeremy Kerley and Stephen Hill wasnt cutting it. 

You dont know if the grass is greener on the other side or not. Geno hasnt been on the field with Smith, Decker and Marshall. You dont know if Geno can could function in Gailey's system or not because you havent seen him in the system. 

This is the problem with all of this "certainty". Im not saying that Geno is no our franchise guy, but Fitzpatrick, a guy who is experienced in this system, isnt keeping Geno at bay with his performance. And for the fact that it was confirmed that Geno was looking better than Fitz during training camp I feel like some people here are disregarding that conveniently because I bet if Geno had that game last night and it was Fitz who had a better training camp these same guys would be screaming about how we should put in Fitzpatrick because he was outperforming Geno in training camp. You and I both know it. 

 

Prior to the Jets ever trading for Fitz I would have rather watched Todd Heaps at QB then Fitz, he is proven garbage for 11 years now, that's a fact plain, and simple.  Geno at least went 8-8 1 year, Fitz best record was 6-10 I believe.

[Villain The Foe]

If we beat Miami this week, we're 3-1 at the bye.  Of course he's keeping Geno at bay.  Everyone says the guy is a career loser yet in 2/3 games he performed well enough to help the team win.  Unless that trend stops he'll be the starter.

Geno's receivers only have a lot to do with his performance to those who are ignoring his flaws.  He has routinely come to play looking confused and unable to lead a team.  Brandon Marshall isn't going to fix that.

 

"If" is a strong word, the fact that we're even having this conversation prior to the Miami game regarding Fitz performance the past 2 weeks supports that. 

[drdetroit]

Not saying Geno can't be a good deep thrower but since when did he become Ken Stabler?

[56mehl56]

Geno is 2-12 in that department so far by my quick count.  In any case this whole Geno vs Fitzpatrick argument is humorous and sad at the same time as they are both lousy and neither one of them are going to lead the Jets anywhere. 

While they both may not be optimal solutions , I don't know if any of us know what Geno can be in Gailey's offense . The sooner we know for certain the sooner we hopefully move on to finding a better alternative. Having to watch Fitz for any extended period is like sitting in purgatory.

[Villain The Foe]

If we beat Miami this week, we're 3-1 at the bye.  Of course he's keeping Geno at bay.  Everyone says the guy is a career loser yet in 2/3 games he performed well enough to help the team win.  Unless that trend stops he'll be the starter.

Geno's receivers only have a lot to do with his performance to those who are ignoring his flaws.  He has routinely come to play looking confused and unable to lead a team.  Brandon Marshall isn't going to fix that.

 

Fitzpatrick has gone into games with prior teams not looking confused yet played like he might as well should have. You dont know the impact of what these coaches and this scheme could have on Geno. This is a fact. 

[Jetsfan80]

"If" is a strong word, the fact that we're even having this conversation prior to the Miami game regarding Fitz performance the past 2 weeks supports that. 

We're only having this conversation because people who couldn't wait to get rid of Fitz were just waiting for him to have a bad game.  The backup QB is always the most popular guy on the team when we don't have a franchise QB.  The same has been true for the likes of Matt Simms and Brett Ratliff.  It doesn't make the backup the better option.

[Lupz27]

Why?

Do you really think Geno with Marshall & Decker would exceed what Fitz did with Andre Johnson & Hopkins last year?

Fitz in 12 games last year:

2483 yards, 17 TDs and 8 INT w/ a completion % of 63.

Fitz has already proven he can play reasonably well when he has 2 good WRs. He got a 1200 yard season out of Hopkins, he got a near 1000 season out of Johnson. 

I'm guessing those are the kind of stats our coaches were expecting when they got Fitz in the first place.

 

 

Reasonably well?  What's the Win Loss record?  When did Fitz EVER go even 8-8 like Geno did with the sh*t he had in 13?

[drdetroit]

Prior to the Jets ever trading for Fitz I would have rather watched Todd Heaps at QB then Fitz, he is proven garbage for 11 years now, that's a fact plain, and simple.  Geno at least went 8-8 1 year, Fitz best record was 6-10 I believe.

where was all this nonsense after we beat the colts last week?

[Jetsfan80]

Fitzpatrick has gone into games with prior teams not looking confused yet played like he might as well should have. You dont know the impact of what these coaches and this scheme could have on Geno. This is a fact. 

Coaching can't fix bad, stupid QB's.  I'm fine with this coaching staff putting him in if we go on a slide.  But people seem to anticipate him being a savior because he has a big arm.  That's not a good enough reason to switch to him.  Geno's only positive attributes are physical.  Every other aspect of QB play he fails in.  And no coach or receiving corps can fix it.  It's just unfortunate that some people are going to pin their hopes for the season on the guy.

[56mehl56]

Why?

Do you really think Geno with Marshall & Decker would exceed what Fitz did with Andre Johnson & Hopkins last year?

Fitz in 12 games last year:

2483 yards, 17 TDs and 8 INT w/ a completion % of 63.

Fitz has already proven he can play reasonably well when he has 2 good WRs. He got a 1200 yard season out of Hopkins, he got a near 1000 season out of Johnson. 

I'm guessing those are the kind of stats our coaches were expecting when they got Fitz in the first place.

 

 

I'm guessing the Jets coaches knew exactly what they were getting in Fitz. He was an insurance plan in case Geno didn't pan out, unfortunately IK made the Jets cash in that policy.

[Villain The Foe]

We're only having this conversation because people who couldn't wait to get rid of Fitz were just waiting for him to have a bad game.  The backup QB is always the most popular guy on the team when we don't have a franchise QB.  The same has been true for the likes of Matt Simms and Brett Ratliff.  It doesn't make the backup the better option.

Geno isnt the back up QB because he lost his job. Yeah, I would agree that most couldnt wait for Fitz to have a bad game. Maybe you're alluding that this is what im doing, this offseason I knew that FItz wouldnt be the answer because he hasnt been the answer for any team (even with a Gailey offense) for 5 prior teams for the past decade. 

If people can give THAT a shot then I dont see why you cant give the benefit of the doubt to a 3rd year QB who's first 2 years was with  poor talent around him along with equally as poor coaching that has had a history of not developing any talent on offense. 

[Lupz27]

We're only having this conversation because people who couldn't wait to get rid of Fitz were just waiting for him to have a bad game.  The backup QB is always the most popular guy on the team when we don't have a franchise QB.  The same has been true for the likes of Matt Simms and Brett Ratliff.  It doesn't make the backup the better option.

The problem is the Starter has yet to play, Fitz is the backup QB.

[predator_05]

Reasonably well?  What's the Win Loss record?  When did Fitz EVER go even 8-8 like Geno did with the sh*t he had in 13?

6-6, better than Geno's 3-10

I'm not trying to make excuses for Fitz like you are for Geno.

[Jetsfan80]

The problem is the Starter has yet to play, Fitz is the backup QB.

Geno needs to act like a starter if he wants the job.  Starting QB's don't get in fights with teammates over $600.

[56mehl56]

We're only having this conversation because people who couldn't wait to get rid of Fitz were just waiting for him to have a bad game.  The backup QB is always the most popular guy on the team when we don't have a franchise QB.  The same has been true for the likes of Matt Simms and Brett Ratliff.  It doesn't make the backup the better option.

This is true and the reason why so many here are clinging on to Fitzy.

[drdetroit]

6-6, better than Geno's 3-10

I'm not trying to make excuses for Fitz like you are for Geno.

Rex Grossman went 13-3 and took a team to the Super Bowl he should be starting for us.

[Jetsfan80]

Geno isnt the back up QB because he lost his job. Yeah, I would agree that most couldnt wait for Fitz to have a bad game. Maybe you're alluding that this is what im doing, this offseason I knew that FItz wouldnt be the answer because he hasnt been the answer for any team (even with a Gailey offense) for 5 prior teams for the past decade. 

If people can give THAT a shot then I dont see why you cant give the benefit of the doubt to a 3rd year QB who's first 2 years was with  poor talent around him along with equally as poor coaching that has had a history of not developing any talent on offense. 

And when did I once argue Fitzpatrick is the answer?  I would be perfectly fine with both him AND Geno gone after the season, with 2 new QB's taking their place.  The reason Fitz's track record suggested he was the better option than Geno is that at least Fitzpatrick is a pro and has thrown more TD's than INT's.  Very low expectations, yes, but still better than Sanchez or Geno.

[#27TheDominator]

Fitzpatrick will start against the Dolphins and he should.  This argument is basically a poor man's 2012 49ers.  That is particularly sad because Alex Smith and Kaepernick are poor men's QB's. 

I find it funny that the Board wants to crucify Geno based on the eye test, but thinks Fitzpatrick is okay and the weapons argument is overrated.  I am not so down on Fitzpatrick as some, but even in his good games his philosophy seemed to be: when in doubt force it in to Marshall.  Geno's main problem seems to be a lack of confidence and when he doesn't know where to go he seems panicky and loses his footwork.  If you let him run through his progression and then force it to Marshall he might look a bunch better.

 

[predator_05]

I'm guessing the Jets coaches knew exactly what they were getting in Fitz. He was an insurance plan in case Geno didn't pan out, unfortunately IK made the Jets cash in that policy.

Its too bad we didn't see both play in pre-season, we'd know who is better and there would be no arguments.

 

[Lupz27]

where was all this nonsense after we beat the colts last week?

I starred a thread after week 1 titled Fitz is the worst QB in Jets history, it got locked and dumped immediately so why would I try again in week 2 after amother terrible performance but a Jets win knowing it would get locked.

[Lupz27]

Geno needs to act like a starter if he wants the job.  Starting QB's don't get in fights with teammates over $600.

Fair, and its the only reason he isn't starting, if it wasn't for that the coaches would have the best talent starting at QB.

[56mehl56]

Coaching can't fix bad, stupid QB's.  I'm fine with this coaching staff putting him in if we go on a slide.  But people seem to anticipate him being a savior because he has a big arm.  That's not a good enough reason to switch to him.  Geno's only positive attributes are physical.  Every other aspect of QB play he fails in.  And no coach or receiving corps can fix it.  It's just unfortunate that some people are going to pin their hopes for the season on the guy.

But physical attributes are there for all to see and in most cases can't be fixed. The mental part of the game can be impacted by coaching, repetition and proper systems. Fans can only assume or guess about "mental" errors made on the field, its easy to casually say he missed his read , he didn't go through his progressions , he didn't understand a coverage , but unless your in the film room I can't see how its not conjecture.

[Lupz27]

Coaching can't fix bad, stupid QB's.  I'm fine with this coaching staff putting him in if we go on a slide.  But people seem to anticipate him being a savior because he has a big arm.  That's not a good enough reason to switch to him.  Geno's only positive attributes are physical.  Every other aspect of QB play he fails in.  And no coach or receiving corps can fix it.  It's just unfortunate that some people are going to pin their hopes for the season on the guy.

I'm not pinning my hopes on him, I think he is sh*t, but I also think he is the less sh*ttier option, and the only 1 of the 2 with upside, and the Jets need to find out if the light bulb might go on with Geno sooner rather than later for the future of the franchise. 

[Villain The Foe]

Geno is 2-12 in that department so far by my quick count.  In any case this whole Geno vs Fitzpatrick argument is humorous and sad at the same time as they are both lousy and neither one of them are going to lead the Jets anywhere. 

I would figure that the stat could be correct, though given how in 2013 the Jets had the worst supporting cast for a rookie and in 2014 the Jets spent no money outside of Decker and shot a complete dud on 13 draft picks which meant that they had one of the least talented groups in all of football in a division where they play the Pats twice, and two tough defenses in the Bills and Fins. 

This is not like Andy Dalton, all that talent everywhere on both sides off the ball yet still cant win the big game. 

[predator_05]

This is true and the reason why so many here are clinging on to Fitzy.

I guess its why Todd Bowles is clinging onto Fitzy too, they don't seem too keen on rushing Geno back:

 

Bowles seemed to be speaking in the here and now, with Smith still not ready. But what happens when Smith can go? 

"Ryan's the starter," Bowles said.

How would Smith get ready to play once he is healthy enough to be active on game day?

"He has to get reps at practice," Bowles said. "He has to read defenses all over again. It's like the start of training camp. When you haven't read the defenses and set the fronts and called out blitz protections and everything like that, that takes a minute. So once he gets back into that flow, I think it'll start coming back to him pretty good."

But, again, Bowles said: "Ryan will get all the first-team reps."

 

So Geno will go back to training camp and practice his deep ball throwing with the second team. Maybe you should email him some of your coaching insight, re: DBs having to run and cover. Might persuade him to make a change.

[Ken Schroy]

It is not being a Geno-er as much as knowing that when your 10 year veteran demonstrates how limited he is and how he is incapable of winning, it is not unreasonable to want to see if the third year college-spread QB, that DID improve last year and DID play very well at the end of the season -it is not unreasonable to want to see if that improvement can continue under a better OC, better HC and with better weapons. Especially since that third year QB can literally do things the JAG veteran can not with his arm and feet, and there is no way we are winning anything with Fitz. Why not see what we have in Geno? NO ONE, not the Geno haters or the Fitzbashers knows what Geno will do but especially since the Jets staff did make him #1 in camp, and he was outperforming Fitz in camp it is in the Jets best interest to find out.

If he sucks, you move on. If he is good, awesome. If you don't play him, what do you do next year? Force Petty? Competition with Petty and Geno? Clearly Fitz is not any more than a 1 year stop gap at best.

Jezz, I thought we won 2 games.

[Villain The Foe]

And when did I once argue Fitzpatrick is the answer?  I would be perfectly fine with both him AND Geno gone after the season, with 2 new QB's taking their place.  The reason Fitz's track record suggested he was the better option than Geno is that at least Fitzpatrick is a pro and has thrown more TD's than INT's.  Very low expectations, yes, but still better than Sanchez or Geno.

I dont know what you agued or didnt argue regarding Fitz. All I know is that I linked an article and you made a comment on it which I responded to. The bottomline is that with all of the things that people have said about Geno (most being rightfully so) the bottomline is that no one knows what Geno can do in this offense. THAT is what no one wants to talk about. I like you can do away with both these guys, however thats not the situation at hand. 

[56mehl56]

Its too bad we didn't see both play in pre-season, we'd know who is better and there would be no arguments.

 

Really , you think 4 quarters of actual pre-season football ends all arguments on who is better. If that was the case we'd still have Brett Ratliff as QB.

[carlito1171]

His deep ball is erratic....but at least he has the strength to get it out there...

 

but no not the most accurate deep ball...mainly due to mechanics and throwing off his back leg..

[Spoot-Face]

Pretty surprised at that last statistic: Fitzpatrick, had a far more accurate deep ball completion rate than Geno.

That surprised me too because so far he's been sh*t at that.

[56mehl56]

I guess its why Todd Bowles is clinging onto Fitzy too, they don't seem too keen on rushing Geno back:

 

Bowles seemed to be speaking in the here and now, with Smith still not ready. But what happens when Smith can go? 

"Ryan's the starter," Bowles said.

How would Smith get ready to play once he is healthy enough to be active on game day?

"He has to get reps at practice," Bowles said. "He has to read defenses all over again. It's like the start of training camp. When you haven't read the defenses and set the fronts and called out blitz protections and everything like that, that takes a minute. So once he gets back into that flow, I think it'll start coming back to him pretty good."

But, again, Bowles said: "Ryan will get all the first-team reps."

 

So Geno will go back to training camp and practice his deep ball throwing with the second team. Maybe you should email him some of your coaching insight, re: DBs having to run and cover. Might persuade him to make a change.

The guy had his jaw broken , hasn't practiced with the 1's in like 5 weeks and the Jets won their 1st 2 games - what did I expect the HC to say . If he started Geno in week 2 I'd be calling it an insane move , even this week on a short week with major travel. But after the bye - that's the timeframe.

[bgivs21]

Neither of our QBs are deep ball throwers, but at least Fitzpatrick is a window throwa

[Villain The Foe]

Neither of our QBs are deep ball throwers, but at least Fitzpatrick is a window throwa

This summer we spoke about how inconsistent Fitz throws outside the numbers. Now we're seeing it in game. We didnt hear that being an issue with Geno this summer, matter of fact Geno didnt throw an interception until August during TC. 

 

Like I said, No one knows how Geno can perform under Gailey's offense. The only difference here is that people like @predator_05 have witnessed Geno's bad games first hand but not Fitz bad games over his career and because of that they're willing to disregard 10 years with of proof of what a guy is because of 2 years of watching Geno be bad. 

 

Geno Smith hasnt shown that he's a good QB, but he has shown that he has the potential to be better than what he currently is. Having this defense (which is also something Geno has never had...just look at last year) along with these WR's maybe he could develop some confidence and move forward.