Not calling TO at the end was the right move

[nico002]

2nd 3 is a low percentage down for any defense. If you call TO there the game is over if the pats convert the first on the next two plays. 

It was a sh*tty situation to be in, but no falling the TO increased out probability of winning because it allowed us to live anothe down if we didn't stop them in that series.

Hindsight is 20/20, and if you knew that gronk was going to score the  obviously you call the time out sooner. Too bad we don't have the luxury of time travel

 

 

[nyjunc]

the game is likely over either way but we would have had another 40 seconds. 

[heymangold]

i was screaming for a TO, but it almost worked out for us.  hate to see it end the way it did with the not being set penalty.

[nyjets782]

2nd 3 is a low percentage down for any defense. If you call TO there the game is over if the pats convert the first on the next two plays. 

It was a sh*tty situation to be in, but no falling the TO increased out probability of winning because it allowed us to live anothe down if we didn't stop them in that series.

Hindsight is 20/20, and if you knew that gronk was going to score the  obviously you call the time out sooner. Too bad we don't have the luxury of time travel

 

 

I agree completely.  As a coach, you look for your chance to draw a line in the sand.  It is hard to do that on 2nd and 2 and say okay, if you get it, game over.  You could play it either way so I get that some people disagree but it was not nearly the incredible blunder that Dan Fouts was moaning about. 

[shuler82]

I agree completely.  As a coach, you look for your chance to draw a line in the sand.  It is hard to do that on 2nd and 2 and say okay, if you get it, game over.  You could play it either way so I get that some people disagree but it was not nearly the incredible blunder that Dan Fouts was moaning about. 

If I ever see Dan Fouts in person, I am going to punch him in the balls.

[y2k8]

It was perfect clock management.  It was the play calling and/or execution that was terrible.

And not for nothing, but if Mangold doesn't get injured on the last FG drive, we would have called timeout and had one last crack at the endzone. 

[Warfish]

The fanboi is on hard in this thread if you've convinced yourself we managed the clock correctly yesterday.

Wasted full 2 minutes + timeouts at end of first half.

A nigtmare of time wasting, non stops and bad decisions in the final 5 minutes.

That's what non-fanbois saw, just FYI.

"Perfect Clock management", lol!

[ylekram]

2nd 3 is a low percentage down for any defense. If you call TO there the game is over if the pats convert the first on the next two plays. 

It was a sh*tty situation to be in, but no falling the TO increased out probability of winning because it allowed us to live anothe down if we didn't stop them in that series.

Hindsight is 20/20, and if you knew that gronk was going to score the  obviously you call the time out sooner. Too bad we don't have the luxury of time travel

 

 

actually, not calling the timeout was the wrong move. the jets are obviously playing for a field goal there. really their only chance to win the game. you either lose 40 seconds in the front by not calling the timeout or you lose 40 seconds in the back if you do call timeout and hold them to the field goal. but in between, anything can happen, including the pats scoring a td, in which they did. there was no advantage to not calling the timeout. and its only a push if you hold them to a field goal.

[ylekram]

If I ever see Dan Fouts in person, I am going to punch him in the balls.

I call bs

[Integrity28]

The fanboi is on hard in this thread if you've convinced yourself we managed the clock correctly yesterday.

Wasted full 2 minutes + timeouts at end of first half.

A nigtmare of time wasting, non stops and bad decisions in the final 5 minutes.

That's what non-fanbois saw, just FYI.

"Perfect Clock management", lol!

It was a Rex fourth quarter... it actually scares the sh*t out of me, especially with the team coming out flat a few times already this year.

[Charlie Brown]

It was perfect clock management.  It was the play calling and/or execution that was terrible.

And not for nothing, but if Mangold doesn't get injured on the last FG drive, we would have called timeout and had one last crack at the endzone.

Don't folks get this!!

Jets fans love devouring their own.  Bowles is a first year HC and has done a TREMENDOUS job so far.  He knew exactly what he was doing it and why.  He was in total control dispite the games outcome.  It is a far cry from the Rex and Herm days of clock management insanity that Jets fans were subject to.

[ylekram]

Don't folks get this!!

Jets fans love devouring their own.  Bowles is a first year HC and has done a TREMENDOUS job so far.  He knew exactly what he was doing it and why.  He was in total control dispite the games outcome.  It is a far cry from the Rex and Herm days of clock management insanity that Jets fans were subject to.

what is the advantage to not calling the timeout?

[joewilly12]

Coaching: Jets head coach Todd Bowles made some questionable clock management decisions late in this game. On the Patriots' final drive, which resulted in their 30-20 lead, they got the ball back with 5:32 remaining. The Jets had all three of their timeouts left. But the Patriots burned the clock and scored the game-clinching touchdown with 1:13 remaining. Bowles opted to not use any of his timeouts on that drive. He would use them all on the Jets' next drive, which resulted in that 55-yard field goal by Folk. Consider that on four straight snaps during the Patriots' final drive, the clock went from 4:20 to 3:34 to 2:52 to 2:17. In that window, Bowles could've used a timeout, to give the Jets more time to come back. But he didn't. 

[FidelioJet]

what is the advantage to not calling the timeout?

saving your TO's...

The team needed to come up with a stop - game was lost if they didn't anyway.  Save them for the offensive drive.

[Charlie Brown]

what is the advantage to not calling the timeout?

Bowles went into detail on this in the post game interview as well as it was discussed on the radio.  Down and distance were the keys. 

The Jets had not been able to stop the Pats in the last few drives in short yardage situations. Stopping the clock in 2nd and 2 or 3 and 2 was two risky, if you use a TO then and the Pats make the first down you have wasted the TO and have nothing for the drive later on. In fact it is possible that the pasts just run out the clock.

Stops were needed and the defense didn't get one period.

Yes it was a pick your poison situation but that is what happens when you are down on the road by more than two scores to the defending SB Champions, with thier QB perfoming at a currently inhuman level.

Think if Nick doesn't get hurt the Jets have a chance to win on the last play of the game because instead of a penalty by Marshall we get to pick what we do on the hail Mary.

[dbatesman]

Holding on to the timeouts let the Pats burn a minute-plus. I like most of what I've seen from Bowles so far, but his clock management at the end of that game was a massive cluster****.

[ylekram]

saving your TO's...

The team needed to come up with a stop - game was lost if they didn't anyway.  Save them for the offensive drive.

Bowles went into detail on this in the post game interview as well as it was discussed on the radio.  Down and distance were the keys. 

The Jets had not been able to stop the Pats in the last few drives in short yardage situations. Stopping the clock in 2nd and 2 or 3 and 2 was two risky, if you use a TO then and the Pats make the first down you have wasted the TO and have nothing for the drive later on. In fact it is possible that the pasts just run out the clock.

Stops were needed and the defense didn't get one period.

Yes it was a pick your poison situation but that is what happens when you are down on the road by more than two scores to the defending SB Champions, with thier QB perfoming at a currently inhuman level.

Think if Nick doesn't get hurt the Jets have a chance to win on the last play of the game because instead of a penalty by Marshall we get to pick what we do on the hail Mary.

if their plan was to hold the pats to a field goal, what is the difference? you either lose 40 seconds in the front by not calling timeout or you lose 40 seconds in the rear by calling a timeout. that's if you make the stop. its a push. either way you lose 40 seconds. but as we all know and witnessed, it didn't work out that way. the pats scored on the next play, essentially wasting 40 seconds. blame it on mangold, the defense not getting the stop, etc. there was nothing to gain by not calling a timeout and only 40 seconds to lose. you guys are smarter than this

[FidelioJet]

Holding on to the timeouts let the Pats burn a minute-plus. I like most of what I've seen from Bowles so far, but his clock management at the end of that game was a massive cluster****.

This wasn't a Rex - confusion decision.  Rex just didn't know what he was doing and it was a cluster****

This was a decision made by Bowles - he knew what he was doing and, in mine and many others, was the right decision.  You may not agree with his decision (as with many coaches calls) but you can't call it a cluster F...There was sound logic behind it.  

If they came up with a stop, there was plenty of time to score with 3 time outs.  Time wouldn't have been much of a factor.

[FidelioJet]

 

if their plan was to hold the pats to a field goal, what is the difference? you either lose 40 seconds in the front by not calling timeout or you lose 40 seconds in the rear by calling a timeout. that's if you make the stop. its a push. either way you lose 40 seconds. but as we all know and witnessed, it didn't work out that way. the pats scored on the next play, essentially wasting 40 seconds. blame it on mangold, the defense not getting the stop, etc. there was nothing to gain by not calling a timeout and only 40 seconds to lose. you guys are smarter than this

So, if it's a push...Why not save it?

Maybe they turn the ball over, maybe they miss the FG.  Again, you may or may not like the call but comparing it to the many Rex disasters is simply wrong.

[JETSfaninNE]

2nd 3 is a low percentage down for any defense. If you call TO there the game is over if the pats convert the first on the next two plays. 

It was a sh*tty situation to be in, but no falling the TO increased out probability of winning because it allowed us to live anothe down if we didn't stop them in that series.

Hindsight is 20/20, and if you knew that gronk was going to score the  obviously you call the time out sooner. Too bad we don't have the luxury of time travel

 

 

I 100% agree, don't understand the "questionable clock management".  I think he actually played the clock as well as you could and would have had his chance if Mangolds injury didn't cost a TO.  

[AzogtheDefiler]

Not calling a TO allowed Gronk to get that TD though!

[JETSfaninNE]

Not calling a TO allowed Gronk to get that TD though!

Gronk was going to get that TD regardless, they flawlessly moved the ball on that last drive.  We couldn't stop them, if we had gotten a 3rd and 5 or something maybe you take one.  I don't think it was a bad move not using them, again we LOST a TO on a freak injury to Mangold.  If we have no TO's when mangold gets injured the clock runs off.  It was just a sh*tty situation at the end of the game that I think Bowles tried his best to make the right decisions.  In no way was he in over his head or clueless on what to do.

[ylekram]

So, if it's a push...Why not save it?

Maybe they turn the ball over, maybe they miss the FG.  Again, you may or may not like the call but comparing it to the many Rex disasters is simply wrong.

I never compared anything to rex. and by the way, you just proved my point. anything can happen and it did happen. if its a push, you don't save the timeout, you take it for the reasons you just stated. think about it for a moment

[dbatesman]

This wasn't a Rex - confusion decision.  Rex just didn't know what he was doing and it was a cluster****

This was a decision made by Bowles - he knew what he was doing and, in mine and many others, was the right decision.  You may not agree with his decision (as with many coaches calls) but you can't call it a cluster F...There was sound logic behind it.  

If they came up with a stop, there was plenty of time to score with 3 time outs.  Time wouldn't have been much of a factor.

I understand the logic behind it. It was just wrong.

[ylekram]

Gronk was going to get that TD regardless, they flawlessly moved the ball on that last drive.  We couldn't stop them, if we had gotten a 3rd and 5 or something maybe you take one.  I don't think it was a bad move not using them, again we LOST a TO on a freak injury to Mangold.  If we have no TO's when mangold gets injured the clock runs off.  It was just a sh*tty situation at the end of the game that I think Bowles tried his best to make the right decisions.  In no way was he in over his head or clueless on what to do.

this statement isn't logical. if, as you say, gronk was going to get the td regardless, then why in the world wouldn't you take the timeout and save 40 seconds. this makes no sense

[JETSfaninNE]

this statement isn't logical. if, as you say, gronk was going to get the td regardless, then why in the world wouldn't you take the timeout and save 40 seconds. this makes no sense

Because there is a chance the Pats just get a first down and keep running down the clock.  You can play the what ifs game all day, but bottom line where did you think we were going to stop them?  The last drive was easily their best drive, we had NO answers to stop them moving the ball.  IF we played stout defense, they would have used all our TOs and used all the clock to kick another fg or kneel it.  It was a lose/lose situation, almost letting them into the endzone earlier might have been better but its all hindsight.  You can think it was a bad management of the clock, I think it was as good of management as you could do in that situation, but bottom line, there was sound reasoning and judgement being made.  This isn't Rex or Dick Curl or any other time mangament gaffes the Jets have had over the years.  If mangold doesn't have a freak injury costing a TO, we have our hail mary chance.

Personally it was just bad defense at the end of the game.  Its a hard pill to swallow but Tom Brady beat us on that last drive.  As westhoff said, its a game of cat and mouse but would have liked to see more cat and less mouse from the jets.

[RutgersJetFan]

I don't know what's worse. Being someone like Rex and not even knowing what math is, or applying it incorrectly in the manner that Bowles did yesterday. That was one of the dumbest ******* things I have ever seen on a football field, and the fact that it was a conscientious decision makes me want to eat my feelings away.

[dbatesman]

I don't know what's worse. Being someone like Rex and not even knowing what math is, or applying it incorrectly in the manner that Bowles did yesterday. That was one of the dumbest ******* things I have ever seen on a football field, and the fact that it was a conscientious decision makes me want to eat my feelings away.

Yeah, the "at least there was logic behind what Bowles did" actually makes me feel worse, because the logic was so ass-backwards. I don't know that coaches can improve in clock management (from what we saw from Herm and Rex, I don't think so), but whether they can or not, if this is your starting point, it's not a good sign.

[RutgersJetFan]

Yeah, the "at least there was logic behind what Bowles did" actually makes me feel worse, because the logic was so ass-backwards. I don't know that coaches can improve in clock management (from what we saw from Herm and Rex, I don't think so), but whether they can or not, if this is your starting point, it's not a good sign.

"But he used a percentage." 'Murica.

[dbatesman]

"But he used a percentage." 'Murica.

The hope is either a.) he realizes he ****ed up and fixes it, or b.) it ends up not mattering (Belichick ****s up this sort of thing sometimes, too). It just sucks because Bowels had basically checked off all the boxes up until this point, and then suddenly he's giving me PTSD flashbacks to that Monday nighter against the Dolphins in 2009.

[RutgersJetFan]

The hope is either a.) he realizes he ****ed up and fixes it, or b.) it ends up not mattering (Belichick ****s up this sort of thing sometimes, too). It just sucks because Bowels had basically checked off all the boxes up until this point, and then suddenly he's giving me PTSD flashbacks to that Monday nighter against the Dolphins in 2009.

Yeah. I like Bowles, but these sort of numbers aren't that difficult to work with. It was depressing. That he's accounting success percentages to outright probability or correlating them to basic things like how much time to keep on the clock (spoiler alert: as much as possible) isn't the most encouraging of things. Bad clock management is one of the worst qualities a head coach can have, our past 3 head coaches were just awful with it; but yesterday, that was some serious sh*t.

[dbatesman]

Yeah. I like Bowles, but these sort of numbers aren't that difficult to work with. It was depressing. That he's accounting success percentages to outright probability or correlating them to basic things like how much time to keep on the clock (spoiler alert: as much as possible) isn't the most encouraging of things. Bad clock management is one of the worst qualities a head coach can have, our past 3 head coaches were just awful with it; but yesterday, that was some serious sh*t.

Yeah. The one advantage Bowels seems to have over the previous three is that he does seem genuinely reflective and willing to adjust his approach, though that could just be me projecting. Hopefully Parcells or Arians texted him last night and said "ur making me look bad dumass!!! "

[ylekram]

Because there is a chance the Pats just get a first down and keep running down the clock.  You can play the what ifs game all day, but bottom line where did you think we were going to stop them?  The last drive was easily their best drive, we had NO answers to stop them moving the ball.  IF we played stout defense, they would have used all our TOs and used all the clock to kick another fg or kneel it.  It was a lose/lose situation, almost letting them into the endzone earlier might have been better but its all hindsight.  You can think it was a bad management of the clock, I think it was as good of management as you could do in that situation, but bottom line, there was sound reasoning and judgement being made.  This isn't Rex or Dick Curl or any other time mangament gaffes the Jets have had over the years.  If mangold doesn't have a freak injury costing a TO, we have our hail mary chance.

Personally it was just bad defense at the end of the game.  Its a hard pill to swallow but Tom Brady beat us on that last drive.  As westhoff said, its a game of cat and mouse but would have liked to see more cat and less mouse from the jets.

the bolded is THE reason you call the timeout. by your own admittance.

[prime21]

I know coaches make mistakes but Bowles not wanting to call a time out is not because he is clueless or forgot about them.   You will rarely ever see a team in passing formations and throwing the ball while trying to chew the clock.  With the drops they had yesterday, the Pats could have stopped the clock for us plus you hope our defense makes a play.  

 

[T0mShane]

Perhaps the rationale was really that Bowles knew Fitzpatrick couldn't get the offense down the field quickly without an arm transplant and was saving the TOs in anticipation of an 8+ play drive?