Please stop saying Fitzpatrick is the guy...

[AFJF]

It was two weeks ago...and it stood for 10 years lol. 

it was official two weeks ago...the way they came out of the gate, there was no way he wasn't topping it by season's end, so a lot of us have known for a while that it was happening if he stayed healthy.

[afosomf]

I think the Giants win is his signature win and Bowles too. No matter how bad the Giants are

cant really call it a siggy win, when the gmen are 6-7. the talent level of gmen is poor outside of eli and odell

[Villain The Foe]

it was official two weeks ago...the way they came out of the gate, there was no way he wasn't topping it by season's end, so a lot of us have known for a while that it was happening if he stayed healthy.

Not really, it became official 2 weeks ago. These expectations were the same in buffalo when they started the season 5-1 as well, they ended the season without passing that mark. This has actually been my primary gripe with Jets fans when discussing Fitz. Not just the disregarding of his past, though wishing for something better, but at the same time never disregarding a current young QB's past and never wishing for something better from him. Not saying that you cant think Fitz was a better option, but Geno had arguably a better career given the time. Geno has actually won 8 games before. We're just now celebrating Fitz first 8 wins, 11 years into his career. 

Fitz has played and produced beyond many peoples expectations. My expectations werent high at all and I cant say that he's played beyond my expectations because my expectations are to make the playoffs. Anything less with this team is a failure. 

I think Fitz can do it, but Im a Jets fan as well. Im always going to feel that. But also understanding his past and removing the biased aspect, the man has to beat these last 3 teams and not leave it up to other teams "losing" for us to back our way in. At some point in time we must beat a good team and make an actual statement. Im not looking past the Cowboys or Bills, but that Patriots game can really do damage if we lose it (Division/Conference game). Thats the greatest test in front of us. 

Fitz can change alot of minds if the Jets leave with a win in that game. 

[jetscrazey]

 If we start having to rely on Fitzpatrick to create the offense then it may be a different story. 

He's not that type of QB, but he is showing to be a good QB in an offense with stars/superstars surrounding him. 

totally agree.  When you don't have an elite QB, you need to invest in skill position players who make their QB better.  Brandon Marshall is the ultimate example of this.

[AFJF]

Not really, it became official 2 weeks ago. These expectations were the same in buffalo when they started the season 5-1 as well, they ended the season without passing that mark. This has actually been my primary gripe with Jets fans when discussing Fitz. Not just the disregarding of his past, though wishing for something better, but at the same time never disregarding a current young QB's past and never wishing for something better from him. Not saying that you cant think Fitz was a better option, but Geno had arguably a better career given the time. Geno has actually won 8 games before. We're just now celebrating Fitz first 8 wins, 11 years into his career. 

Fitz has played and produced beyond many peoples expectations. My expectations werent high at all and I cant say that he's played beyond my expectations because my expectations are to make the playoffs. Anything less with this team is a failure. 

I think Fitz can do it, but Im a Jets fan as well. Im always going to feel that. But also understanding his past and removing the biased aspect, the man has to beat these last 3 teams and not leave it up to other teams "losing" for us to back our way in. At some point in time we must beat a good team and make an actual statement. Im not looking past the Cowboys or Bills, but that Patriots game can really do damage if we lose it (Division/Conference game). Thats the greatest test in front of us. 

Fitz can change alot of minds if the Jets leave with a win in that game. 

Those Buffalo teams couldn't play defense. This team can. That's why I've always said I like Fitz to start.  He's been better than I expected but the defense has been worse than I expected. If this defense shuts down a couple of mediocre offenses the Jets are coasting to the playoffs.

[UpstateJetsGuru]

Fitz is the guy...

[sackdance]

cant really call it a siggy win, when the gmen are 6-7. the talent level of gmen is poor outside of eli and odell

Once Fitz finds out that afosomf is still waiting for a siggy win I'm sure he'll double down in preparation for the New England game. Some things really, really matter.

[afosomf]

Once Fitz finds out that afosomf is still waiting for a siggy win I'm sure he'll double down in preparation for the New England game. Some things really, really matter.

If you are talking about extending his contract and fitzy getting between $10-$15m per,  I would need to see a siggy win. I believe TJ Yates could prob be 8-5 with this cupcake schedule any my opinions of UNC Qbs is pretty low mon

[Villain The Foe]

Those Buffalo teams couldn't play defense. This team can. That's why I've always said I like Fitz to start.  He's been better than I expected but the defense has been worse than I expected. If this defense shuts down a couple of mediocre offenses the Jets are coasting to the playoffs.

So you felt like Fitz could start because alot of his those team failures came from those teams not being able to play defense. Okay, I can accept that. But why not make the same case for Geno? 

Fitz has a defense that is 5th in the league this year overall and #1 in the run. And even with that you feel like the defense has played worst than you expected. 

Meanwhile, Geno had a defense that was 27th in the league last year and 22nd in 2013. And in 2013 in particular, he won 8 games. 

In 2011 when Fitz started the season 4-1 and even beat the Pats in week 3, that Bills defense that you said couldnt play was ranked 7th in the league. 

Geno hasnt had a defense ranked below 22nd since he's been in the league. Fitz started a season 4-1 and ended it 6-8 with a 7th ranked defense. Now tl be fair, those numbers can certainly deceive. The Bills gave up alot of points on the surface, but it was because of the offensive turnovers, offensive drives stalling etc. Look at that year, you'll see alot of those games during that losing stretch where 4 of those games the Bills offense scored 11 or less points. Its hard for the defense to hold the other team when they're always on the field and their offense scores no points. 

For the record,  this is a great convo we're having here. Not trying to convince you or say anything negative on Fitz. Im just trying to state my position on why I disagreed with the Geno bashing when Fitz really didnt show much either. 

 

[AFJF]

So you felt like Fitz could start because alot of his those team failures came from those teams not being able to play defense. Okay, I can accept that. But why not make the same case for Geno? 

Fitz has a defense that is 5th in the league this year overall and #1 in the run. And even with that you feel like the defense has played worst than you expected. 

Meanwhile, Geno had a defense that was 27th in the league last year and 22nd in 2013. And in 2013 in particular, he won 8 games. 

In 2011 when Fitz started the season 4-1 and even beat the Pats in week 3, that Bills defense that you said couldnt play was ranked 7th in the league. 

Geno hasnt had a defense ranked below 22nd since he's been in the league. Fitz started a season 4-1 and ended it 6-8 with a 7th ranked defense. Now tl be fair, those numbers can certainly deceive. The Bills gave up alot of points on the surface, but it was because of the offensive turnovers, offensive drives stalling etc. Look at that year, you'll see alot of those games during that losing stretch where 4 of those games the Bills offense scored 11 or less points. Its hard for the defense to hold the other team when they're always on the field and their offense scores no points. 

For the record,  this is a great convo we're having here. Not trying to convince you or say anything negative on Fitz. Im just trying to state my position on why I disagreed with the Geno bashing when Fitz really didnt show much either. 

 

Because Geno was a terrible QB last season...worse than Fitzpatrick has ever been.  I get that Fitz has better receivers, but Geno had good enough players last year to put up better than 13 TDs IMO.  He missed tons of open receivers on plays that could have been the difference between a win and a loss on several occasions.

 

 

[Villain The Foe]

Because Geno was a terrible QB last season...worse than Fitzpatrick has ever been.  I get that Fitz has better receivers, but Geno had good enough players last year to put up better than 13 TDs IMO.  He missed tons of open receivers on plays that could have been the difference between a win and a loss on several occasions.

 

 

Geno also had one of the worst OC's in the league and a HC that couldnt even contribute on offense. Its not like Geno's success, or lack of it is in a vacuum. The coaching was absolutely ridiculous. You have an OC call a time out because Powell line's up wrong instead of allowing Geno to fix it...which he did, then proceeded to throw a TD pass to tie a game against Green Bay which was ultimately called back because of the TO by the coach. 

Marty was one of the most clueless OC's we've had. Meanwhile, Chan Gailey this year has been one of the best OC's we've had in terms of gameplanning and providing plays that could be successful. 

This plays a role in a players success, not just the QB. Add to the fact that you have this OC and you have a revamped Oline, and 2 top weapons in the league as passing targets. 

 

To say that Geno had good enough players, yet say that a 7th ranked defense "couldnt play defense" seems a bit one-sided to me. 

[PFSIKH]

cant really call it a siggy win, when the gmen are 6-7. the talent level of gmen is poor outside of eli and odell

Exactly.  The Giants had to shat all over themselves in order to win.

[AFJF]

Geno also had one of the worst OC's in the league and a HC that couldnt even contribute on offense. Its not like Geno's success, or lack of it is in a vacuum. The coaching was absolutely ridiculous. You have an OC call a time out because Powell line's up wrong instead of allowing Geno fix it...which he did, then proceeded to throw a TD pass to tie a game against Green Bay which was ultimately called back because of the TO by the coach. 

Marty was one of the most clueless OC's we've had. Meanwhile, Chan Gailey this year has been one of the best OC's we've had in terms of gameplanning and providing plays that could be successful. 

This plays a role in a players success, not just the QB. Add to the fact that you have this OC and you have a revamped Oline, and 2 top weapons in the league as passing targets. 

 

To say that Geno had good enough players, yet say that a 7th ranked defense "couldnt play defense" seems a bit one-sided to me. 

None of that has anything to do with missing wide open receivers.

I'm talking about production from the quarterback, not wins and losses which falls on the team.  I said Fitz was a productive QB, but the reason he never won more than six was because of his defense.

Geno only managed to throw 13 TDs in a league that is begging for offense while he had one of the best running games in the NFL to lean on, and enough pass catchers to produce more than 13 TDs, six of which came in the season's final four games when there was considerably less pressure IMO.

[Villain The Foe]

None of that has anything to do with missing wide open receivers.

I'm talking about production from the quarterback, not wins and losses which falls on the team.  I said Fitz was a productive QB, but the reason he never won more than six was because of his defense.

Geno only managed to throw 13 TDs in a league that is begging for offense while he had one of the best running games in the NFL to lean on, and enough pass catchers to produce more than 13 TDs, six of which came in the season's final four games when there was considerably less pressure IMO.

I've seen Fitz miss Devin Smith a few times. I've seen Fitz overthrow/underthrow targets this year. Im saying that Geno was a young QB with little talent around him on offense, no talent on defense and a terrible group of coaches in terms of the offense overall. 

Geno managed to throw 13TD's because of play design. The Jets went from a mostly 2 WR set then, to today Fitz playing in the most 4 WR sets in all of football. Geno played in a run heavy offense, Fitz played in a wide open balanced offense. Geno had Marty, Fitz has Chan. Again, you make it seem like a players success is in a vacuum. 

The two QB's played for virtually two different teams with different coaches. Furthermore, Geno was only in his 2nd year, Fitz was in his 10th and in his 5 prior stops never had the success wins wise as Geno did his rookie year. Thats 10 years, not just one. My point that im trying to make here is the one that I've always made. How can Fitzpatrick be excused for 10 years yet a young new QB cant be excused for 2 when we knew as fans the problem with this organization? 

And I can never seem to even get a "that's an understandable point" as a response....not even that. 

[Larz]

all this thread bumping is bad karma !!!

c;mon dudes !!!!

[Jet_Engine1]

[NYs Stepchild]

I agree that it wont work, and thats why I also think it had nothing to with being a deterrent. Think about it. If it really worked, 90% of the posters here wouldnt post. 

The other 10% would be the mods with no one to moderate. Also, I bumped a thread from the same person doing the same thing just on a different topic. Not saying that to put jgb on front street. Im saying it because we all do it. I do it, he does it, you probably do it and a good portion of the forums ideas are based on it. 

 

Say if Fitz lose these last 3 games. The people who are getting handled today with use this exact excuse to say "we're doing it as a deterrent" 

Can you say Eli is good if he only wins 6 games?

[Villain The Foe]

Can you say Eli is good if he only wins 6 games?

I think Eli Manning is a top 10 QB. 

[AFJF]

I've seen Fitz miss Devin Smith a few times. I've seen Fitz overthrow/underthrow targets this year. Im saying that Geno was a young QB with little talent around him on offense, no talent on defense and a terrible group of coaches in terms of the offense overall. 

Geno managed to throw 13TD's because of play design. The Jets went from a mostly 2 WR set then, to today Fitz playing in the most 4 WR sets in all of football. Geno played in a run heavy offense, Fitz played in a wide open balanced offense. Geno had Marty, Fitz has Chan. Again, you make it seem like a players success is in a vacuum. 

The two QB's played for virtually two different teams with different coaches. Furthermore, Geno was only in his 2nd year, Fitz was in his 10th and in his 5 prior stops never had the success wins wise as Geno did his rookie year. Thats 10 years, not just one. My point that im trying to make here is the one that I've always made. How can Fitzpatrick be excused for 10 years yet a young new QB cant be excused for 2 when we knew as fans the problem with this organization? 

And I can never seem to even get a "that's an understandable point" as a response....not even that. 

Yes, we have all seen Fitzpatrick overthrow Devin Smith and Brandon Marshall and Eric Decker.

However, we have also seen him hit them for 20 TD's while completing 60% of his passes en route to an offense that is currently 10th in the NFL in scoring.

It's like anything else in life...you take the good with the bad.  Fitz will come up short on the deep ball and make a few throws that land nowhere near a Jet receiver.  Even with that being the case, he has them in the top 10.

With Geno, missing wide open receivers isn't forgivable becasue he didn't make enough plays to make up for it or overcome it.  I could care less about overthrown passes if at the end of the day they score enough point to give them a chance to win.

How many peole are willling to take the good with the bad when the bad FAR outweights the good?  

I understand that Geno has "more upside", but what we know right now, today...is that Fitz is performing at a level far superior to anything we've ever seen from Geno.

Jets are winning...top 10 offense....I'm just gonna' sit back and enjoy it.

[afosomf]

Yes, we have all seen Fitzpatrick overthrow Devin Smith and Brandon Marshall and Eric Decker.

However, we have also seen him hit them for 20 TD's while completing 60% of his passes en route to an offense that is currently 10th in the NFL in scoring.

It's like anything else in life...you take the good with the bad.  Fitz will come up short on the deep ball and make a few throws that land nowhere near a Jet receiver.  Even with that being the case, he has them in the top 10.

With Geno, missing wide open receivers isn't forgivable becasue he didn't make enough plays to make up for it or overcome it.  I could care less about overthrown passes if at the end of the day they score enough point to give them a chance to win.

How many peole are willling to take the good with the bad when the bad FAR outweights the good?  

I understand that Geno has "more upside", but what we know right now, today...is that Fitz is performing at a level far superior to anything we've ever seen from Geno.

Jets are winning...top 10 offense....I'm just gonna' sit back and enjoy it.

Ok skip so the plan is to play fitzy in 2016 right?  Good Luck vs this schedule 

 

 

2016 New York Jets Opponents
Home	Buffalo, Miami, New England, Baltimore, Cincinnati, St. Louis, Seattle, AFC South*
Away	Buffalo, Miami, New England, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Arizona, San Francisco, AFC West*
* Team from that division that finishes in the same spot in the 2015 standings.

[AFJF]

Ok skip so the plan is to play fitzy in 2016 right?  Good Luck vs this schedule 

 

 

2016 New York Jets Opponents
Home	Buffalo, Miami, New England, Baltimore, Cincinnati, St. Louis, Seattle, AFC South*
Away	Buffalo, Miami, New England, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Arizona, San Francisco, AFC West*
* Team from that division that finishes in the same spot in the 2015 standings.

Three games left in 2015 with a shot at the postseason and you're already fearing 2016...LOL

Stick to worrying about your Packers...take care.

[afosomf]

Three games left in 2015 with a shot at the postseason and you're already fearing 2016...LOL

Stick to worrying about your Packers...take care.

No worry with Packers mon, Carolina or AZ will represent NFC this yr. 

[Saul Goodman]

The anti-Fitz guys are like jihadists. There is NOTHING he can do that would alter their belief about him. If we beat New England, we'll be hearing "yeah but let's see him do it in the PLAYOFFS hurr durr", "yeah but he had BRANDON MARSHALL to throw the ball to". Hope they follow Geno Smith to his next team. 

[AFJF]

The anti-Fitz guys are like jihadists. There is NOTHING he can do that would alter their belief about him. If we beat New England, we'll be hearing "yeah but let's see him do it in the PLAYOFFS hurr durr", "yeah but he had BRANDON MARSHALL to throw the ball to". Hope they follow Geno Smith to his next team. 

Had the same thought earlier...almost every single NFL game has tow or three key plays that could change the outcome.  If the Jets beat the Pats, his haters will point to the two or three plays the went his way and they'll call it luck.  The same people who said the missed/dropped TD"s in the first game were meaningless because the only thing that matters is the bottom line.  

[afosomf]

The anti-Fitz guys are like jihadists. There is NOTHING he can do that would alter their belief about him. If we beat New England, we'll be hearing "yeah but let's see him do it in the PLAYOFFS hurr durr", "yeah but he had BRANDON MARSHALL to throw the ball to". Hope they follow Geno Smith to his next team. 

then beat NE, and no one here is saying they beat NE with Geno. Next yr will be a major setback without a legit QB.

[Smashmouth]

The anti-Fitz guys are like jihadists. There is NOTHING he can do that would alter their belief about him. If we beat New England, we'll be hearing "yeah but let's see him do it in the PLAYOFFS hurr durr", "yeah but he had BRANDON MARSHALL to throw the ball to". Hope they follow Geno Smith to his next team. 

Listening to these Idiots is hilarious ...God for bid the Jets should finally surround a QB with talent and a solid system. Because you know most great QB don't have any talent around them they make everybody great.

I love the, "Oh he has Brandon Marshall"

Saul a few months ago this board was becoming unreadable for me amazing what a few well placed ignore's can do for you're experience

[AFJF]

Fitzpatrick is the guy

[AFJF]

I think what I miss most about Geno is that he never threw an incomplete pass, and he never lost a game.  Damn you Fitz!

[Villain The Foe]

Yes, we have all seen Fitzpatrick overthrow Devin Smith and Brandon Marshall and Eric Decker.

However, we have also seen him hit them for 20 TD's while completing 60% of his passes en route to an offense that is currently 10th in the NFL in scoring.

It's like anything else in life...you take the good with the bad.  Fitz will come up short on the deep ball and make a few throws that land nowhere near a Jet receiver.  Even with that being the case, he has them in the top 10.

With Geno, missing wide open receivers isn't forgivable becasue he didn't make enough plays to make up for it or overcome it.  I could care less about overthrown passes if at the end of the day they score enough point to give them a chance to win.

How many peole are willling to take the good with the bad when the bad FAR outweights the good?  

I understand that Geno has "more upside", but what we know right now, today...is that Fitz is performing at a level far superior to anything we've ever seen from Geno.

Jets are winning...top 10 offense....I'm just gonna' sit back and enjoy it.

The only thing that you dealt with in this response was understanding that Fitz has also missed targets. You completely disregarded everything else in order to reiterate what you've already stated. This is the problem with having this conversation. 

I can sit here and acknowledge that you could have a point about the Bills not playing defense very well. I can present that during that 2011 stretch they were ranked 7th in the league yet will still say that rankings can be deceiving at times to even support your point but showing that though in my disagreement you can still have a some point of relevance given that I understand that success isnt in a vacuum. 

When it comes to Geno, its simply ignored. Its hard to continue a conversation when this happens, because the same level of acknowledging points is just not there. It is either argued against or totally ignored. 

 

 

[chirorob]

Ok skip so the plan is to play fitzy in 2016 right?  Good Luck vs this schedule 

 

 

2016 New York Jets Opponents
Home	Buffalo, Miami, New England, Baltimore, Cincinnati, St. Louis, Seattle, AFC South*
Away	Buffalo, Miami, New England, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Arizona, San Francisco, AFC West*
* Team from that division that finishes in the same spot in the 2015 standings.

So, if we finish in second, and the Texans finish in second, the Jets go to Houston?

[chirorob]

The anti-Fitz guys are like jihadists. There is NOTHING he can do that would alter their belief about him. If we beat New England, we'll be hearing "yeah but let's see him do it in the PLAYOFFS hurr durr", "yeah but he had BRANDON MARSHALL to throw the ball to". Hope they follow Geno Smith to his next team. 

He is playing the best QB this team has had in...

10 years?

Fitz has been everything we could have hoped for.  Is he throwing for 5000 yards?  Nope, but he doesn't cost 25 million against the cap either.

[AFJF]

The only thing that you dealt with in this response was understanding that Fitz has also missed targets. You completely disregarded everything else in order to reiterate what you've already stated. This is the problem with having this conversation. 

I can sit here and acknowledge that you could have a point about the Bills not playing defense very well. I can present that during that 2011 stretch they were ranked 7th in the league yet will still say that rankings can be deceiving at times to even support your point but showing that though in my disagreement you can still have a some point of relevance given that I understand that success isnt in a vacuum. 

When it comes to Geno, its simply ignored. Its hard to continue a conversation when this happens, because the same level of acknowledging points is just not there. It is either argued against or totally ignored. 

 

 

I've seen Fitz miss Devin Smith a few times. I've seen Fitz overthrow/underthrow targets this year. Im saying that Geno was a young QB with little talent around him on offense, no talent on defense and a terrible group of coaches in terms of the offense overall. 

Geno managed to throw 13TD's because of play design. Untrue.  Go back and watch the games.  I did.  Especially the San Diego and Chicago games.  Plenty of opportunities to score points but everything was happening too fast for Geno to find the open man.  Had many chances in the RZ but took sacks/kicked FG's instead. The OC can only do so much...can't throw the TD's for him.

The two QB's played for virtually two different teams with different coaches. Furthermore, Geno was only in his 2nd year, Fitz was in his 10th and in his 5 prior stops never had the success wins wise as Geno did his rookie year. Thats 10 years, not just one. My point that im trying to make here is the one that I've always made. How can Fitzpatrick be excused for 10 years yet a young new QB cant be excused for 2 when we knew as fans the problem with this organization? 

Excuse what?  Who is excusing him of anything?  I said from the start that I hoped he'd produce as he had in the past and I said a million times that I'd be thrilled if 1) More TD's than INT's 2) 60% comp pct.  I have believed all along that doing that with this defense could lead to a 10-12 win season.  I think when in regards to "excusing" him you're talking about his W/L record again which I have no interest in.  Teams win football games.  Offense, defense and special teams.  If your QB gives you a chance to win more often than not but your defense can't stop "a nose bleed" then I don't see where he needs to be excused.  There were plenty of games the Jets could have won last season if the QB play had been "meh", but that was too much to ask of Geno, just like Sanchez before him.

And I can never seem to even get a "that's an understandable point" With all due respect, it's not understandable to me but you're certainly entitled to your opinion.  You're talking about formations and play calls when my argument is that he too often failed to deliver the ball on target to open receivers.  The OC calls the play, the ball is snapped, the o-linemen block the pass rushers, the receivers run the routes and get open, Geno fires the ball to a spot where it is not catchable.  Who is at fault in that scenario that played out far too many times last season? 

Aside from the SD and Chi games, look at the missed opportunities for TD's against the Pats and Dolphins at home...had Percy Harvin streaking down the field, wide open for sure touchdowns, had a ridiculous window to throw it in as there were no defenders behind Harvin, and didn't even come close on either ball.  Both landed a few yards out of bounds.  Why should we excuse that?  You can't tell me he had no weapons when I can go back and find multiple instances of missed scoring opportunities because he failed to hit a wide open receiver.  I don't care if it's David Nelson or megatron...if you can't hit the dude when he burns the defense it's not going to matter what name is on the back of the jersey. 

[AFJF]

 

So, if we finish in second, and the Texans finish in second, the Jets go to Houston?

That Houston loss....ugh.

[jgb]

The Conquering Hero wants us to end all this bickering and follow him to victory, together, united.  jgb, you've been doing the Lord's work, and Fitzy appreciates it I'm sure, but let's not fight anymore.  We're 8-5 and every game is a playoff game now.  We're all in.  Let's do this.  Together.

hope people remember what happened here. No matter how right you think you may be, treat other fans with respect. Because you could actually be...... OMG..... Wrong! 

Respectful debate always welcomed! Go jets.

[jgb]

Man, some of you guys are really sticking with this weak schedule schtick. 

just retreating from one defensive line to the next as the Fitzinator overwhelms their position over and over again