Please stop saying Fitzpatrick is the guy...

[afosomf]

 

So, if we finish in second, and the Texans finish in second, the Jets go to Houston?

Home vs Hou and Away vs KC

[Villain The Foe]

 

 

And I can never seem to even get a "that's an understandable point" With all due respect, it's not understandable to me but you're certainly entitled to your opinion.  You're talking about formations and play calls when my argument is that he too often failed to deliver the ball on target to open receivers. 

 

Im putting the convo to bed because I've entertained your argument while you ignore mine because my argument isnt yours. Anything worth considering has been ignored or disregarded if it isnt relevant to your argument. 

Its hard to hear someone's point of view and hear their argument and even consider it while not receiving the same. Whats the point then? 

Im not going to acknowledge a 7th ranked defense that cant stop a nose bleed while that offense on a 7 game losing streak scores 11 or less points yet have someone disregards a 27th ranked defense that cant stop a nose bleed and the offense plays in some ways better but that somehow is disregarded. 

acknowledgement isnt acceptance, but to not even acknowledging can only result in a one-sided debate or argument. 

 

That actually proves my point, thought I've unfortunately tried to show this point to people who are doing it....thats my bad. 

[AFJF]

 

Im putting the convo to bed because I've entertained your argument while you ignore mine because my argument isnt yours. Anything worth considering has been ignored or disregarded if it isnt relevant to your argument. 

Its hard to hear someone's point of view and hear their argument and even consider it while not receiving the same. Whats the point then? 

I just addressed all of your points, but we should let this one be.  As long as Bowles sees Fitz as the better option, I'm good

Now, let's go trade for Mike Glennon in the offseason.

[jgb]

 

Im putting the convo to bed because I've entertained your argument while you ignore mine because my argument isnt yours. Anything worth considering has been ignored or disregarded if it isnt relevant to your argument. 

Its hard to hear someone's point of view and hear their argument and even consider it while not receiving the same. Whats the point then? 

Im not going to acknowledge a 7th ranked defense that cant stop a nose bleed while that offense on a 7 game losing streak scores 11 or less points yet have someone disregards a 27th ranked defense that cant stop a nose bleed and the offense plays in some ways better but that somehow is disregarded. 

acknowledgement isnt acceptance, but to not even acknowledging can only result in a one-sided debate or argument. 

 

That actually proves my point, thought I've unfortunately tried to show this point to people who are doing it....thats my bad. 

if you believe you've done enough to announce victory, why are you still on the field?

 

[Villain The Foe]

I just addressed all of your points, but we should let this one be.  As long as Bowles sees Fitz as the better option, I'm good

Now, let's go trade for Mike Glennon in the offseason.

Addressing and considering is different. 

Thats like me saying "how can you say they cant stop a nose-bleed yet they were 7th in the league in defense"? 

Thats addressing while not considering the fact that numbers are not always what they may seem. 

You addressing my point but not considering the fact that Revis had more turnovers in the Colts game this year than the Jets defense had all of last year is addressing the point without considering the point. 

Thats disregarding. 

[Villain The Foe]

if you believe you've done enough to announce victory, why are you still on the field?

 

Your image sucks. 

[jgb]

Addressing and considering is different. 

Thats like me saying "how can you say they cant stop a nose-bleed yet they were 7th in the league in defense"? 

Thats addressing while not considering the fact that numbers are not always what they may seem. 

You addressing my point but not considering the fact that Revis had more turnovers in the Colts game this year than the Jets defense had all of last year is addressing the point without considering the point. 

Thats disregarding. 

I got a lot of respect for you. You're a great poster. Love it man seriously. Not sarcastic

[Villain The Foe]

I got a lot of respect for you. You're a great poster. Love it man seriously. Not sarcastic

Thanks. 

[jgb]

Your image sucks. 

not bad for iPad from a bar in a mall in Singapore while they repair my smashed iPhone ?

[jgb]

Thanks. 

I love the debate between you and AFJF is cool to see. I happen to agree with AFJF but I'm a jets junkie and love to hear all sides

[Villain The Foe]

I love the debate between you and AFJF is cool to see. I happen to agree with AFJF but I'm a jets junkie and love to hear all sides

Its just hard to have the convo. I even tried to consider all his points, even in my disagreement...because I know that my view is purely perspective. But to see someone say that a 7th ranked defense cant stop a nosebleed yet not acknowledge a 27th ranked defense KNOWING (given that we're Jets fans and seen every game) that this was one of the worst defenses the Jets have ever put on the field. To also disregard the fact that the offense was the most barebone group we've probably seen the Jets field since the early 90's. Then you throw a rookie/2nd year QB in the mix with an OC that never showed that he could put together a good gameplan and a HC who doesnt even include himself in the offense. 

If I would have heard "I can understand how not having talent to rely on is really not conducive to QB development, but....." then I would have been satisfied with his overall disagreement because atleast the point was being acknowledged. All im asking is for the fact to be acknowledged. 

 

 

[jgb]

Its just hard to have the convo. I even tried to consider all his points, even in my disagreement...because I know that my view is purely perspective. But to see someone say that a 7th ranked defense cant stop a nosebleed yet not acknowledge a 27th ranked defense KNOWING (given that we're Jets fans and seen every game) that this was one of the worst defenses the Jets have ever put on the field. To also disregard the fact that the offense was the most barebone group we've probably seen the Jets field since the early 90's. Then you throw a rookie/2nd year QB in the mix with an OC that never showed that he could put together a good gameplan and a HC who doesnt even include himself in the offense. 

If I would have heard "I can understand how not having talent to rely on is really not conducive to QB development, but....." then I would have been satisfied with his overall disagreement because atleast the point was being acknowledged. All im asking is for the fact to be acknowledged. 

 

 

if I can opine, and I DO NOT pretend to speak for AFJF, but the issue is that I believe that Geno is perhaps the biggest dunce to every wear a wristband in and NFL game. I think he is the most immature, stupid, spoiled, whatever negative superlative, QB of all time except maybe Leaf and Russell. Maybe. So therefore, and if this is possible, his extreme idiocracy affected the jets defense in numberable ways. 1. Horrific field position, 2. Time on field, 3. Horrific lack of confidence in the offensive offense, and 4. Plain old hatred for a straight up punk.

[Villain The Foe]

if I can opine, and I DO NOT pretend to speak for AFJF, but the issue is that I believe that Geno is perhaps the biggest dunce to every wear a wristband in and NFL game. I think he is the most immature, stupid, spoiled, whatever negative superlative, QB of all time except maybe Leaf and Russell. Maybe. So therefore, and if this is possible, his extreme idiocracy affected the jets defense in numberable ways. 1. Horrific field position, 2. Time on field, 3. Horrific lack of confidence in the offensive offense, and 4. Plain old hatred for a straight up punk.

With all this said, is the hatred that strong to where one cant even acknowledge factual points? 

Thats why I said that it was "my bad" for even trying the conversation again, because peoples points are also fueled on their personal feelings to the point that anything showing that not all of it was his fault or that some of his problems were an indirect result of incompetence outside of him is completely rejected. 

[afosomf]

With all this said, is the hatred that strong to where one cant even acknowledge factual points? 

Thats why I said that it was "my bad" for even trying the conversation again, because peoples points are also fueled on their personal feelings to the point that anything showing that not all of it was his fault or that some of his problems were an indirect result of incompetence outside of him is completely rejected. 

Geno being a punk or being a perceived dunce, has nothing to do with his football skills, he has never had a real OC. Geno will be with a new team next yr. There is a potential for the jets to look like royal flaming idiots if a real OC makes him a very good QB, meanwhile jets are playing fitzy and play a real schedule next yr. I am not a Geno fan either, but to not evaluate him properly is a crime. 

[Villain The Foe]

Geno being a punk or being a perceived dunce, has nothing to do with his football skills, he has never had a real OC. Geno will be with a new team next yr. There is a potential for the jets to look like royal flaming idiots if a real OC makes him a very good QB, meanwhile jets are playing fitzy and play a real schedule next yr. I am not a Geno fan either, but to not evaluate him properly is a crime. 

Couldnt have said it better. 

[FidelioJet]

Geno being a punk or being a perceived dunce, has nothing to do with his football skills, he has never had a real OC. Geno will be with a new team next yr. There is a potential for the jets to look like royal flaming idiots if a real OC makes him a very good QB, meanwhile jets are playing fitzy and play a real schedule next yr. I am not a Geno fan either, but to not evaluate him properly is a crime. 

agree 100%...

I've asked the question before of Fitz...What would the Jets record be this year without Marshall?   I would like the opportunity to know how Geno would do with a legit #1 target and OC that will play to his strengths.

[GandWFan]

agree 100%...

I've asked the question before of Fitz...What would the Jets record be this year without Marshall?   I would like the opportunity to know how Geno would do with a legit #1 target and OC that will play to his strengths.

Raiders Game.  </thread>

[JustInFudge]

 

Geno being a punk or being a perceived dunce, has nothing to do with his football skills, he has never had a real OC. Geno will be with a new team next yr. There is a potential for the jets to look like royal flaming idiots if a real OC makes him a very good QB, meanwhile jets are playing fitzy and play a real schedule next yr. I am not a Geno fan either, but to not evaluate him properly is a crime. 

Well said. I'm all aboard the Fitz train but never knowing what we dont know is a shame.  Especially if this season doesnt end in the playoffs, which it doesnt look like it will.  The reality is, it was kind of a wasted season.  Now the Jets are stuck with Fitz who is what he is and the Jets never got to see what Geno could be in this system.  Granted it may have been a disaster but actually getting to see the disaster play out might have been the best case scenario for the Jets.

Just got to hope they find a QB or Petty is the real deal and Fitz can duplicate this magic next season with hopefully a better end result. 

[chirorob]

Home vs Hou and Away vs KC

Thank you.

I wanted away at Houston, so I could go since I had to miss the game this year.

[BowlesMovement]

Geno being a punk or being a perceived dunce, has nothing to do with his football skills, he has never had a real OC. Geno will be with a new team next yr. There is a potential for the jets to look like royal flaming idiots if a real OC makes him a very good QB, meanwhile jets are playing fitzy and play a real schedule next yr. I am not a Geno fan either, but to not evaluate him properly is a crime. 

There is risk on both sides of this equation, and saying its a crime is just ignoring one side completely at a minimum, and at a maximum, its just foolish.

Here is the undeniable truth, The coaching staff and the front office see a hell of a lot more of Geno than any of us fans. They had their opportunity at 5-5 to put in Geno, they did not. That has to tell you something. To say they are not evaluating him properly is implying that the coaching staff and FO is completely incompetent, which it may be, but I have no reason to say they are at this point in time.

The other side you are completely ignoring is, what if Fitz is actually what he is showing us to be this season? For as much as there is criticism about the easy schedule, he also missed most of camp, and is playing with a new group of receivers, and has gotten stronger as the season went on. In addition, as good as Marshall and Decker are, they both have been hurt at some point in time this season, we have had no receiving TE or RB threat for MOST of the season, and the Oline has been spotty.

So, there was just as much risk by playing Geno, seeing him suck balls, and not seeing Fitz could actually give us 4-5 years of pretty good QB play.

Considering the coaching staff and the FO handed Geno the job on day one of the camp, tells me they really wanted to give him a shot. The fact that at 5-5 and Fitz injured, that they did not give him another shot, should tell you they have been evaluating him all along, and don't think he is legit.

[jgb]

With all this said, is the hatred that strong to where one cant even acknowledge factual points? 

Thats why I said that it was "my bad" for even trying the conversation again, because peoples points are also fueled on their personal feelings to the point that anything showing that not all of it was his fault or that some of his problems were an indirect result of incompetence outside of him is completely rejected. 

I don't really have an opinion that's between you and him 

Geno being a punk or being a perceived dunce, has nothing to do with his football skills, he has never had a real OC. Geno will be with a new team next yr. There is a potential for the jets to look like royal flaming idiots if a real OC makes him a very good QB, meanwhile jets are playing fitzy and play a real schedule next yr. I am not a Geno fan either, but to not evaluate him properly is a crime. 

Being an idiot has huge relevance to your ability as an NFL QB

Couldnt have said it better. 

I think you could if you applied yourself ?

[FidelioJet]

Raiders Game.  </thread>

Wait, what?

Did you watch the game or just come here and read the posts?

He was far from great but they moved the ball well in that game.....Yes, he made some mistakes, but coming off the bench in a situation where the entire rest of the team had completely fallen apart - without any first team reps in 2 months - you can hardly blame him.  

And even if he completely sucked - you couldn't possibly judge him for that based upon all the other circumstances....

I would hardly call stats like that "/thread" worthy.  

 

TDS

2

INT

1

YDS

265

RTG

87.9

 

[CrazyCarl40]

Wait, what?

Did you watch the game or just come here and read the posts?

He was far from great but they moved the ball well in that game.....Yes, he made some mistakes, but coming off the bench in a situation where the entire rest of the team had completely fallen apart - without any first team reps in 2 months - you can hardly blame him.  

And even if he completely sucked - you couldn't possibly judge him for that based upon all the other circumstances....

But they weren't new mistakes. They were the same old mistakes. Taking sacks, getting throttled instead of heading out of bounds, not going through he reads progression, missing wide open receivers, being very inaccurate at times. This wasn't his first rodeo, but he still played the part of the clown. Time to move on.

[Snell41]

Raiders Game.  </thread>

Exactly.  He didn't have to win that game, he didn't even have to play particularly well given he was coming in cold.  Just know situations, make smart decisions and show the team you know what you're doing. 

He throws a pick almost immediately-forgivable in my eyes, it was a deep pass and he was coming in cold trying to make something happen early.  Chances are in his mind he didn't know if Fitz was going to be able to come back and figured if he makes something big happen early on he might get the nod even if Fitz can return.  I get it and I wasn't bothered by it.

He gets absolutely pummeled on the sideline instead of stepping out of bounds.  Again, I can live with this, adrenaline, wanting to gain yards, maybe even thinking of his first game vs TB where he drew a personal foul.  Not very bright, but forgivable.

He runs out of bounds and takes a 6 yard loss while out of the pocket and easily could have killed the clock throwing the ball out of bounds past the LOS.  This is just plain dumb.  Really ******* dumb.  And he has been notorious for doing this. 

He runs out of bounds AGAIN, only this time before he does he slows up and allows the defender to push him back a little, thus giving up forward progression and keeping the clock running.  Unforgivable.  Completely unforgivable.  But even worse is he then jogs 15 yards out of bounds, now being 4th down, having no idea the clock is running because he has no clue that he gave up forward progression.  You could tell he figured because he was upright and ran out of bounds under his own accord that he figured the clock stopped.  He's literally walking slowly moping 15 yards out of bounds.  He didn't even get pushed out of bounds.  He just ran all the way to the wall because he had zero situational awareness.  That is completely unforgivable from a guy who's n his 3rd year, having started his first 2 years.  That was football 101.  The guy has no business being on the field.

Add to all this the fact he got punched in the jaw and nary one teammate came out to his defense, the guy is toxic.  I really stand by my opinion that I do not think Geno will be on the team next year.  I think we're going to be active in the draft early, and Fitz is obviously sticking around, so I can see where the plan is in hopes that Petty is ready to step in if needed, as well as a fairly highly drafted rookie this coming season.

[whodeawhodat]

But they weren't new mistakes. They were the same old mistakes. Taking sacks, getting throttled instead of heading out of bounds, not going through he reads progression, missing wide open receivers, being very inaccurate at times. This wasn't his first rodeo, but he still played the part of the clown. Time to move on.

you know Carl, sometimes you arent that Crazy. well put.

I do understand that he had no first team reps but this is year 3 for Geno, there comes a time where you need to step up and actually get better.  IMO, he has not.

[slats]

Geno being a punk or being a perceived dunce, has nothing to do with his football skills, he has never had a real OC. Geno will be with a new team next yr. There is a potential for the jets to look like royal flaming idiots if a real OC makes him a very good QB, meanwhile jets are playing fitzy and play a real schedule next yr. I am not a Geno fan either, but to not evaluate him properly is a crime. 

Definitely think Geno is immature, and have real questions about whether or not his introverted personality is suited to be an NFL QB. Always disagree with the stupid stuff, though. I don't think he's a dumb kid at all. 

All that said, the QB position is very fluid next year. The same three guys could be back next year, or Petty could be the only guy back. No matter what a revelation some people may think the conquering hero is, he's no lock to start next year or even be on the roster. Geno is no lock to be removed, either. If I was gonna bet, I'd bet on Fitz coming back, but it's entirely possible that they may decide they like another FA QB better this offseason. For Geno, it really depends on how much he's grown since getting his jaw broken. If the coaches and his teammates see real improvement there, it makes sense to keep him as an inexpensive backup with starting experience. The draft is another wild card. Do they legitimately see Petty as a potential starter, or do they decide to draft another QB -maybe higher than the fourth round- next year? I think that's the only way Geno is certain to be out of a job here. 

[ScarletKnight89]

Fitz definitely isn't the guy. But he's the best QB we've had since Pennington. He's a guy who should be our QB until we find "the guy".

 

He's competent and smart with the football. His problem is that he's limited. He can't make all the throws you would like to see a franchise QB be able to make. I wish we could give Geno Smiths right arm to Fitzpatrick

[AFJF]

Addressing and considering is different. 

Thats like me saying "how can you say they cant stop a nose-bleed yet they were 7th in the league in defense"? 

Thats addressing while not considering the fact that numbers are not always what they may seem. 

You addressing my point but not considering the fact that Revis had more turnovers in the Colts game this year than the Jets defense had all of last year is addressing the point without considering the point. 

Thats disregarding. 

My point is that Geno cannot hit open receivers often enough to make me view him as better than Fitz, and you're suggesting I consider how many fumbles Darrelle Revis recovered against the Colts.

Again, let's stick to agreeing on Glennon.

[greenwichjetfan]

Wait, what?

Did you watch the game or just come here and read the posts?

He was far from great but they moved the ball well in that game.....Yes, he made some mistakes, but coming off the bench in a situation where the entire rest of the team had completely fallen apart - without any first team reps in 2 months - you can hardly blame him.  

And even if he completely sucked - you couldn't possibly judge him for that based upon all the other circumstances....

I would hardly call stats like that "/thread" worthy.  

 

TDS

2

INT

1

YDS

265

RTG

87.9

 

This is what Geno did in the Oak game:

- Led the Jets to 21-3 deficits and 28-6 deficits before finally scoring a TD against garbage-time defense midway through the 3Q.
- Then he scored another garbage time TD midway through the 4Q.
- On those two drives when Oakland was up big and played shell coverages, he compiled 110 yards (41.5% of his total yardage). After the second TD, he got the ball back 4 times, and with Oak playing their standard defense again in a two score game, he was unable to generate anything, just as he was unable to generate anything against Oak's standard defense prior to being down 28-6. 

I'll grant you that our defense was beyond putrid that game, and I can't fault Geno for the defense giving up 28 points midway through the third. But what about him holding up his end of the bargain and keeping us in it by at least matching them on O? Down 28-6 is an indictment of the defense, but also of Geno. 

Geno had 7 weeks to sit and learn situational football from a high-IQ player - when to take chances/when to move on to the next play/when to redirect a run against a certain base look/when and where to throw hot on a blitz/how to manipulate a safety deep/when to check out of a run/when to skip a progression and go to the next one before the ball is even snapped based on the pre-snap defense/etc. Yet, he was still making all of the exact same mistakes he's been making the past two years- and none of them had to do with his physical ability. That has and will continue to be Geno's issue. 

I mean, I don't know man - you asked what Geno would look like "with a legit #1 target and OC that will play to his strengths". Well, the Raiders game is what he'd look like, and when someone brought up the Raiders game, you asked if they even watched the game or just looked at the stats. I'd counter that your post seems like it was written by someone much more likely to have not watched the game. 

[FidelioJet]

[GandWFan]

Wait, what?

Did you watch the game or just come here and read the posts?

He was far from great but they moved the ball well in that game.....Yes, he made some mistakes, but coming off the bench in a situation where the entire rest of the team had completely fallen apart - without any first team reps in 2 months - you can hardly blame him.  

And even if he completely sucked - you couldn't possibly judge him for that based upon all the other circumstances....

I would hardly call stats like that "/thread" worthy.  

 

TDS

2

INT

1

YDS

265

RTG

87.9

 

He played ok.  Maybe good, even.  EXCEPT when the game was on the line.  Then he had multiple brain farts, as usual.  But, please, keep defending him.  

But DON"T say we have not seen him in this offense, with this OC.  We did.  He failed. Again.  </thread>

 

[FidelioJet]

He played ok.  Maybe good, even.  EXCEPT when the game was on the line.  Then he had multiple brain farts, as usual.  But, please, keep defending him.  

But DON"T say we have not seen him in this offense, with this OC.  We did.  He failed. Again.  </thread>

 

You could blame that game on a lot of people.  Geno was the least of them.

I would say Bowles for not having the team prepared, the defense was disgraceful and special teams were atrocious..

I'm not trying to defend Geno, not saying he is or will be the future QB but, and I realize I'm in the minority, I'm not ready to give up on him quite yet.  And the one Raider game, where he came off the bench - isn't enough to make any legitimate assessment.

 

[UnitedWhofans]

Geno being a punk or being a perceived dunce, has nothing to do with his football skills, he has never had a real OC. Geno will be with a new team next yr. There is a potential for the jets to look like royal flaming idiots if a real OC makes him a very good QB, meanwhile jets are playing fitzy and play a real schedule next yr. I am not a Geno fan either, but to not evaluate him properly is a crime. 

I understand that. I'm sure that Ryan Leaf had good football skills too. His attitude and leadership is the problem with me. Sure IK shouldn't have punched him, but Geno could have nipped the problem in the bud. He, in a way, cost himself this opportunity. In the Raiders game he played okay but at the end of the day, he couldn't complete the comeback.

 

Its not going to just be an environment change for Geno that will help him. He will have to help himself.

And if Fitz does flameout, we have a young QB with a year on the bench under his belt ready to take over. And don't talk about schedule either. Schedules change year to year

[GandWFan]

You could blame that game on a lot of people.  Geno was the least of them.

I would say Bowles for not having the team prepared, the defense was disgraceful and special teams were atrocious..

I'm not trying to defend Geno, not saying he is or will be the future QB but, and I realize I'm in the minority, I'm not ready to give up on him quite yet.  And the one Raider game, where he came off the bench - isn't enough to make any legitimate assessment.

Oh, OK, got it.  So when Geno fails again, it is the fault of the defense, or the coach, or the special teams.  Even though Geno makes multiple mental mistakes at the end of the game with a chance to win.   

However, when Fitz loses with the same coaches, defense, and special teams, then he is not the "guy".  Even though Fitz never had a losing record as a Jets starter.  

What color is the sky in your world?  Just curious.

 

[afosomf]

Definitely think Geno is immature, and have real questions about whether or not his introverted personality is suited to be an NFL QB. Always disagree with the stupid stuff, though. I don't think he's a dumb kid at all. 

All that said, the QB position is very fluid next year. The same three guys could be back next year, or Petty could be the only guy back. No matter what a revelation some people may think the conquering hero is, he's no lock to start next year or even be on the roster. Geno is no lock to be removed, either. If I was gonna bet, I'd bet on Fitz coming back, but it's entirely possible that they may decide they like another FA QB better this offseason. For Geno, it really depends on how much he's grown since getting his jaw broken. If the coaches and his teammates see real improvement there, it makes sense to keep him as an inexpensive backup with starting experience. The draft is another wild card. Do they legitimately see Petty as a potential starter, or do they decide to draft another QB -maybe higher than the fourth round- next year? I think that's the only way Geno is certain to be out of a job here. 

Geno will not be a NY Jet next yr, it will be Fitz Petty and another QB probably a draft pick.  Dee will also be on a new team and is probably right decision for both parties. If he cannot get playing time over Walls, it is time to cut ties