Trading Richardson

[Raideraholic]

nyjets101.com

Wilfork and Knightin get $5 mil and Snacks is better

Two diffrent situations . Vince Wilfork was 34 years old, and Terrance Knighton ( priced himself out( weight concerns)- had to take one year deal as all the suitors were gone. 

The top run stuffing Nt in Fa ,  got 6 million last year( Dan Williams ).   Damian Harrison is consider the top Nt in the game will probably command 6.5 - 7 million annually .( way cheaper than Wilkerson).

[bitonti]

no one's giving a 1st round pick for a player with 2 suspensions and a 3rd still pending. 

[ylekram]

and our defense was absolute trash when we had a crap Nose Tackle like Dewayne Robertson.  Snacks not only stops the run he makes everyone around him better including Wilk.  Letting Snacks walk, who only wants $5 mil per season, to give Wilk $15 mil per season would be the dumbest thing ever

the reality is that a defensive end in a 3-4 defense is probably 3rd on the list of importance when it comes to the front 7. nose tackle being at the top of the list, followed by olb. one can conceivably make the aregument that the ilb are more important that the defensive ends, but i wont go there. imo, wilkerson became an after thought once williams was available.

[ylekram]

no one's giving a 1st round pick for a player with 2 suspensions and a 3rd still pending. 

how many suspensions?

[bitonti]

how many suspensions?

sorry only 1 suspension but at least 2 if not 3 violations of the league's substance policy. Not counting the Missouri Grand Prix he competed in 2015. 

[Jet Nut]

I'd be curious to see what you think when he screws up again.  And he will.

Well why are you asking me?  

You're the psychic who just knows that he will screw up again.  Tell me the date and time when it all goes down, I'll m ake sure to be here to tell you what apparently you will know.

Until then, I'm not trading one of my best players for pennies on a dollar because fans are worried he may face a 2nd suspension.  Need a little more than that 

 

[SenorGato]

and our defense was absolute trash when we had a crap Nose Tackle like Dewayne Robertson.  Snacks not only stops the run he makes everyone around him better including Wilk.  Letting Snacks walk, who only wants $5 mil per season, to give Wilk $15 mil per season would be the dumbest thing ever

Again with the $15 million bulllsh*t....Its not real. Nobody cares about the run, the Jets have a plenty good run defense without Harrison thanks to Wilkerson/Richardson/Williams.

Remember when the Jets ended up finding a long term NT in the form of a 30 year old reserve DT who sat on their bench for years beforehand? They're not hard to find, Wilkersons are.

[Augustiniak]

Again with the $15 million bulllsh*t....Its not real. Nobody cares about the run, the Jets have a plenty good run defense without Harrison thanks to Wilkerson/Richardson/Williams.

Remember when the Jets ended up finding a long term NT in the form of a 30 year old reserve DT who sat on their bench for years beforehand? They're not hard to find, Wilkersons are.

nobody cares about the run until you can't stop it.  that's why so many DLs keep being drafted in the first round.

[Spoot-Face]

Haven't read the thread, but saw a few posts that seem to propose the argument of keeping Snacks vs keeping Mo or Sheldon.

Arguments of "run stuffing" aside, didn't Mac, in his recent post-season interviews, say that he wants the Jets to get faster? Wouldn't that make Snacks the odd man out if it came to him vs Mo or Sheldon?

I like Snacks and would love to keep him, but I think speed should be a priority. He's a dominant force on the line, for sure, but he sure as Hell ain't fast. Besides, TJ Barnes is a big man, I'm sure he could plug the hole just fine.

[SenorGato]

nobody cares about the run until you can't stop it.  that's why so many DLs keep being drafted in the first round.

Stopping the run is not the reason DL keep being drafted. The Jets didn't draft three first round DL for their ability to stop the run. It's a basic skill for a DL at this point, and nowhere near as valuable as playing the pass.

[32EBoozer]

Haven't read the thread, but saw a few posts that seem to propose the argument of keeping Snacks vs keeping Mo or Sheldon.

Arguments of "run stuffing" aside, didn't Mac, in his recent post-season interviews, say that he wants the Jets to get faster? Wouldn't that make Snacks the odd man out if it came to him vs Mo or Sheldon?

I like Snacks and would love to keep him, but I think speed should be a priority. He's a dominant force on the line, for sure, but he sure as Hell ain't fast. Besides, TJ Barnes is a big man, I'm sure he could plug the hole just fine.

Nobody expects "fast" from their NT. MacDaddy was talking fast from his ILB's, OLB's and DB's. The FAT guys up front in a 3-4 are meant to take on blockers normally.

Mo, Sheldon, Snacks and Williams are superior athletes. We're very fortunate to have that quickness. But the quick twitch guys Mac wants are at the LB level and the DB's and the WR's and RB position

[Long Island Leprechaun]

Nobody expects "fast" from their NT. MacDaddy was talking fast from his ILB's, OLB's and DB's. The FAT guys up front in a 3-4 are meant to take on blockers normally.

Mo, Sheldon, Snacks and Williams are superior athletes. We're very fortunate to have that quickness. But the quick twitch guys Mac wants are at the LB level and the DB's and the WR's and RB position

Thank you. You took the words out of my mouth.

[SenorGato]

Nobody expects "fast" from their NT. MacDaddy was talking fast from his ILB's, OLB's and DB's. The FAT guys up front in a 3-4 are meant to take on blockers normally.

Mo, Sheldon, Snacks and Williams are superior athletes. We're very fortunate to have that quickness. But the quick twitch guys Mac wants are at the LB level and the DB's and the WR's and RB position

Why are you adding words he never said? He said he wants to get faster in general from the sounds of it, didn't specify anywhere, and there's no reason to put words in his  mouth.

If he wants to get faster - then he's keeping Wilkerson over Harrison. Every single one of the DL on this team can play the run, this isn't some special gift only Harrison has. Wilkerson, Richardson, Williams, Barnes....all these guys play the run well without Harrison.

[Freemanm]

With his legal troubles, I doubt you'd even get a 2nd rounder for him

[SenorGato]

With his legal troubles, I doubt you'd even get a 2nd rounder for him

Iunno, the Seahawks used a 2nd round pick on Frank Clark last year. If they use a second on that guy, possibly the door is open for pick 26+.

[ylekram]

Why are you adding words he never said? He said he wants to get faster in general from the sounds of it, didn't specify anywhere, and there's no reason to put words in his  mouth.

If he wants to get faster - then he's keeping Wilkerson over Harrison. Every single one of the DL on this team can play the run, this isn't some special gift only Harrison has. Wilkerson, Richardson, Williams, Barnes....all these guys play the run well without Harrison.

of course wilkerson can play the run. thats what a 3-4 defensive ends primary job is. wilks can also play the nose. but you are kidding yourself if you think that wilks can do what  snacks can do at the nose. its not even close. its compairing apples and oranges. as far as macs comments about getting faster, i am pretty sure he wasnt talking about the nose tackle position. and i am pretty sure snacks is fast enough, considering he is one of the best in the league at what he does

[Beerfish]

nyjets101.com

Wilfork and Knightin get $5 mil and Snacks is better

Yeah, snacks is better and younger thus he'll be asking for 8.

[SenorGato]

of course wilkerson can play the run. thats what a 3-4 defensive ends primary job is. wilks can also play the nose. but you are kidding yourself if you think that wilks can do what  snacks can do at the nose. its not even close. its compairing apples and oranges. as far as macs comments about getting faster, i am pretty sure he wasnt talking about the nose tackle position. and i am pretty sure snacks is fast enough, considering he is one of the best in the league at what he does

I don't think Wilkerson can do what Snacks can do at the nose. Wilkerson can do more.

I'm pretty sure he was talking about the team in general. I am pretty sure that, while Snacks is fast for a NT, he isn't that fast in general. He's one of the best in the league at doing something only a backwards franchise would put a premium on.

[Jet Nut]

Why are you adding words he never said? He said he wants to get faster in general from the sounds of it, didn't specify anywhere, and there's no reason to put words in his  mouth.

If he wants to get faster - then he's keeping Wilkerson over Harrison. Every single one of the DL on this team can play the run, this isn't some special gift only Harrison has. Wilkerson, Richardson, Williams, Barnes....all these guys play the run well without Harrison.

You think he was remotely talking about Snacks or the NT position?  Because speed there helps how?

That along with the reports that Macc wants to sign Snacks says he's looking for speed elsewhere.  Probably positions where speed is an asset

[Savage69]

I don't think Wilkerson can do what Snacks can do at the nose. Wilkerson can do more.

I'm pretty sure he was talking about the team in general. I am pretty sure that, while Snacks is fast for a NT, he isn't that fast in general. He's one of the best in the league at doing something only a backwards franchise would put a premium on.

So with you countless posts praising of Mo would it be safe to assume you think he's one of the best Jet players in history??  IMO I don't compare a NT at 6 million or so to a DE who is looking for a minimum of double that and probably much more.. At any rate we will see how Mac and Bowles feel in the coming months and the draft however to get something of value back Mo is the best bet for that providing he's not priced out of the market.. If I was the GM I would let his agent see what the market offered and go from there..

[ylekram]

I don't think Wilkerson can do what Snacks can do at the nose. Wilkerson can do more.

I'm pretty sure he was talking about the team in general. I am pretty sure that, while Snacks is fast for a NT, he isn't that fast in general. He's one of the best in the league at doing something only a backwards franchise would put a premium on.

so with that said, mac could have been talking about getting faster at the punter position

smart teams that run a 3-4 defense shouldnt allocate funds to the most important position in the front seven, but should allocate double the money to a position that has 2 many starters as it is?

you are cool with losing snacks for nothing, with no replacement, but are up in arms at the thought of trading wilkerson for a draft pick of substance, while an arguably better player will man his position?

hey i get it. wilkerson is a really good player. but the reality is, wilk will be a numbers casualty.

as far as snacks goes, the jets might choose to let him walk. they might have seen something in barnes,maybe. but from what we(the fans) have seen, well, we dont know if barnes is bust or beast at this point

[SenorGato]

You think he was remotely talking about Snacks or the NT position?  Because speed there helps how?

That along with the reports that Macc wants to sign Snacks says he's looking for speed elsewhere.  Probably positions where speed is an asset

I think he was talking about the team in general, I chose not to put words in his mouth. NT being what it is doesn't mean you look for a 4.5 guy, but that doesn't mean you hand out big money to 2 down run cloggers either.

So with you countless posts praising of Mo would it be safe to assume you think he's one of the best Jet players in history??  IMO I don't compare a NT at 6 million or so to a DE who is looking for a minimum of double that and probably much more.. At any rate we will see how Mac and Bowles feel in the coming months and the draft however to get something of value back Mo is the best bet for that providing he's not priced out of the market.. If I was the GM I would let his agent see what the market offered and go from there..

Actually yeah, Wilkerson is one of the best players in Jets history now that you mention it. 5 years already of elite DL play and only 26? **** yeah that's a historically great player for this franchise and most in general.

I OTOH will compare the two, and I'd take the far and away better player in the DE. Throw in that that DE has played 3-4 NT, 4-3 NT, 4-3 DE, and 4-3 UT on top of it....Not even a contest.

[Spoot-Face]

Nobody expects "fast" from their NT. MacDaddy was talking fast from his ILB's, OLB's and DB's. The FAT guys up front in a 3-4 are meant to take on blockers normally.

Mo, Sheldon, Snacks and Williams are superior athletes. We're very fortunate to have that quickness. But the quick twitch guys Mac wants are at the LB level and the DB's and the WR's and RB position

Good point. But, perhaps we should weigh the difference between Snacks' run stopping vs Mo/Sheldon, vs the difference between the speed of Mo/Sheldon vs Snacks.

Forgetting an actual NT (like Barnes) for a second, a front 3 of Mo/Sheldon/Williams would undoubtedly be a good deal faster then a front 3 of Mo or Sheldon/Snacks/Williams. But, would there be a significant drop-off of run stopping ability? The first line would be more versatile, too.

Now, as to your point, Mac was saying that they would very much like to keep Snacks, so perhaps he does see his run stopping as valuable enough to overlook his being a slow, fat guy (not the slowest, I admit. Snacks IS a hell of an athlete and force on the line, I do not deny that).

Maybe you want to argue that anyone lined up in the middle NT position is not gonna gave much chance to get to the QB anyway, especially in obvious run situations, so why not fill it with the biggest, baddest body, and let the LBs and DEs get at the QB. And to that, I have no retort.

There's also the fact of Sheldon's current legal problems, as well as the fear of future ones. Then again, it's Mo and Snacks who are the most likely eeny, meeny, miny moe candidates, because of their assumed high asking prices, so it becomes a much dicier scenario.

I think I'm just talking in circles now, so I'll end by saying that I'm glad I don't have to make this decision. All three of Sheldon, Mo, and snacks are great athletes and would be assets to any team.

[Jet Nut]

I think he was talking about the team in general, I chose not to put words in his mouth. NT being what it is doesn't mean you look for a 4.5 guy, but that doesn't mean you hand out big money to 2 down run cloggers either.

Actually yeah, Wilkerson is one of the best players in Jets history now that you mention it. 5 years already of elite DL play and only 26? **** yeah that's a historically great player for this franchise and most in general.

I OTOH will compare the two, and I'd take the far and away better player in the DE. Throw in that that DE has played 3-4 NT, 4-3 NT, 4-3 DE, and 4-3 UT on top of it....Not even a contest.

Thats the job of a nose tackle.  Its not derogatory to call them cloggers.  Macc is looking to resign Snacks according to reports, hes not looking to replace one of the leagues best NTs with someone faster

[ylekram]

Good point. But, perhaps we should weigh the difference between Snacks' run stopping vs Mo/Sheldon, vs the difference between the speed of Mo/Sheldon vs Snacks.

Forgetting an actual NT (like Barnes) for a second, a front 3 of Mo/Sheldon/Williams would undoubtedly be a good deal faster then a front 3 of Mo or Sheldon/Snacks/Williams. But, would there be a significant drop-off of run stopping ability? The first line would be more versatile, too.

Now, as to your point, Mac was saying that they would very much like to keep Snacks, so perhaps he does see his run stopping as valuable enough to overlook his being a slow, fat guy (not the slowest, I admit. Snacks IS a hell of an athlete and force on the line, I do not deny that).

Maybe you want to argue that anyone lined up in the middle NT position is not gonna gave much chance to get to the QB anyway, especially in obvious run situations, so why not fill it with the biggest, baddest body, and let the LBs and DEs get at the QB. And to that, I have no retort.

There's also the fact of Sheldon's current legal problems, as well as the fear of future ones. Then again, it's Mo and Snacks who are the most likely eeny, meeny, miny moe candidates, because of their assumed high asking prices, so it becomes a much dicier scenario.

I think I'm just talking in circles now, so I'll end by saying that I'm glad I don't have to make this decision. All three of Sheldon, Mo, and snacks are great athletes and would be assets to any team.

regardless of which side of the coin you are looking at, its just nice to have a debate on which good players to keep, atleast amongst the dline, as oppossed to which players to obtain to get better

[Spoot-Face]

regardless of which side of the coin you are looking at, its just nice to have a debate on which good players to keep, atleast amongst the dline, as apossed to which players to obtain to get better

Damn straight.

Deciding which good piece is the most expendable >>>>>>>>>>>>> deciding which sh*t piece is the best bet to keep (Hi, Chaz Schilens!)

[peebag]

Well why are you asking me?  

You're the psychic who just knows that he will screw up again.  Tell me the date and time when it all goes down, I'll m ake sure to be here to tell you what apparently you will know.

Until then, I'm not trading one of my best players for pennies on a dollar because fans are worried he may face a 2nd suspension.  Need a little more than that 

 

It's not about being psychic - it's about probability.  He gets suspended for 4 games then 2 weeks later....

 

On July 14, 2015, less than two weeks after receiving his suspension for failing the league's substance abuse policy, Richardson was arrested in St. Charles County, Missouri and charged with resisting arrest and traffic violations. He was reportedly street racing in excess of 140 miles per hour before attempting to evade the authorities pursuing him. Two other men and a 12-year-old were found to be in the car, all of whom smelled of marijuana. A loaded handgun was found beneath the driver's seat.^[13] He was not charged with any drug charges or child endangerment since according to the prosecutor, there was not enough evidence for a case that was beyond a reasonable doubt. There was no gun charge since guns are legal in Missouri and Richardson was in proper possession of it

 

yea...I'd say there's a real good chance it happens again.

[SenorGato]

Thats the job of a nose tackle.  Its not derogatory to call them cloggers.  Macc is looking to resign Snacks according to reports, hes not looking to replace one of the leagues best NTs with someone faster

It is, OTOH, not all that valuable to be a clogger in the grand scheme of things. The Jets shouldn't, and as with the past probably won't, be paying a premium for a two down DLman who only plays the run. Hit me with some reports.

Also, I get that being ultra literal really helps drag this totally-not-tedious conversation out, but nobody is talking about acquiring a faster NT. No one.

so with that said, mac could have been talking about getting faster at the punter position

smart teams that run a 3-4 defense shouldnt allocate funds to the most important position in the front seven, but should allocate double the money to a position that has 2 many starters as it is?

you are cool with losing snacks for nothing, with no replacement, but are up in arms at the thought of trading wilkerson for a draft pick of substance, while an arguably better player will man his position?

hey i get it. wilkerson is a really good player. but the reality is, wilk will be a numbers casualty.

as far as snacks goes, the jets might choose to let him walk. they might have seen something in barnes,maybe. but from what we(the fans) have seen, well, we dont know if barnes is bust or beast at this point

- He's talking about getting faster in general. He didn't name a position. There's no reason to add words he didn't say.

- Smart teams understand that playing the pass is many times more important than stopping the run in today's game. Smart teams avoid paying premiums to guys with limited games built around stopping the run. Smart teams understand that DLs need more than two starters.

- The Jets have a replacement in TJ Barnes.

- There is no argument that any Jets DL is better than Wilkerson. I shouldn't say that...There is no good or true argument that any of the Jets' DL, at any position, is better than Wilkerson.

- You don't get it - Wilkerson is a great player. The reality is, Harrison is the far more likely numbers casualty.

- We couldn't have less of an idea who Harrison was until 2013 despite him occupying the roster since 2011. Barnes will do fine, just as Harrison did fine when surrounded by Wilkerson and Richardson. Barnes will be the next NT Wilkerson makes into a stud just by playing next to him.

[Beerfish]

 

- The Jets have a replacement in TJ Barnes.

The Bills scooped Barnes off our psquad last year.

 

Our only current viable guy on the team is Deon Simon, small school guy we picked up last year.

[SenorGato]

The Bills scooped Barnes off our psquad last year.

 

Our only current viable guy on the team is Deon Simon, small school guy we picked up last year.

Might as well be the same person to me. Go be big and occupy some space on the first two downs.

Don't forget the several FA options that can pass the time for cheap...Ngata, Rubin, Mebane, and Raji can all occupy space for a couple of downs without requiring a significant commitment.

[Beerfish]

Might as well be the same person to me. Go be big and occupy some space on the first two downs.

Don't forget the several FA options that can pass the time for cheap...Ngata, Rubin, Mebane, and Raji can all occupy space for a couple of downs without requiring a significant commitment.

Yeah I looked at that list, not keen on Raji but the others are worth a look but they need to be cheap because if they are even close to Snacks you may as well keep snacks.

 

All of our discussions will get much more interesting once someone starts leaking out more reliable info on what these guys are asking for,

[ylekram]

It is, OTOH, not all that valuable to be a clogger in the grand scheme of things. The Jets shouldn't, and as with the past probably won't, be paying a premium for a two down DLman who only plays the run. Hit me with some reports.

Also, I get that being ultra literal really helps drag this totally-not-tedious conversation out, but nobody is talking about acquiring a faster NT. No one.

- He's talking about getting faster in general. He didn't name a position. There's no reason to add words he didn't say.

- Smart teams understand that playing the pass is many times more important than stopping the run in today's game. Smart teams avoid paying premiums to guys with limited games built around stopping the run. Smart teams understand that DLs need more than two starters.

- The Jets have a replacement in TJ Barnes.

- There is no argument that any Jets DL is better than Wilkerson. I shouldn't say that...There is no good or true argument that any of the Jets' DL, at any position, is better than Wilkerson.

- You don't get it - Wilkerson is a great player. The reality is, Harrison is the far more likely numbers casualty.

- We couldn't have less of an idea who Harrison was until 2013 despite him occupying the roster since 2011. Barnes will do fine, just as Harrison did fine when surrounded by Wilkerson and Richardson. Barnes will be the next NT Wilkerson makes into a stud just by playing next to him.

i respectfully disagree with just about everything here. i am pretty confident that wilkerson will be traded. however, wilks being tagged and playing 1 more year for the jets is possible, which would tell me only 1 thing. that there wasnt a legitimate offer on the table for aquiring the so called best jets player ever.imo, wilks gets traded and dont be surprised if its for a 2nd rounder

[SenorGato]

i respectfully disagree with just about everything here. i am pretty confident that wilkerson will be traded. however, wilks being tagged and playing 1 more year for the jets is possible, which would tell me only 1 thing. that there wasnt a legitimate offer on the table for aquiring the so called best jets player ever.imo, wilks gets traded and dont be surprised if its for a 2nd rounder

I am pretty confident that Harrison will be let go in order to keep the team's best player. That would tell us only one thing - the Jets have finally entered the modern era of football and won't do something nuts like pay premium prices to stop the run. 

Don't be surprised when Harrison is unceremoniously allowed to leave and the franchise moves on quickly, without a major drop off in performance against the run or in general.

[32EBoozer]

Why are you adding words he never said? He said he wants to get faster in general from the sounds of it, didn't specify anywhere, and there's no reason to put words in his  mouth.

If he wants to get faster - then he's keeping Wilkerson over Harrison. Every single one of the DL on this team can play the run, this isn't some special gift only Harrison has. Wilkerson, Richardson, Williams, Barnes....all these guys play the run well without Harrison.

Here was his post:

Arguments of "run stuffing" aside, didn't Mac, in his recent post-season interviews, say that he wants the Jets to get faster? Wouldn't that make Snacks the odd man out if it came to him vs Mo or Sheldon?

 

Our friend said that MacDaddy wanted more speed on the team and that made Snacks the odd man out.

I commented that MacD probably meant  the skill position guys, LB's and DB's to be faster. Not the front 3

That wasn't too tough to understand..... surprised you missed it. 

[Jet Nut]

 

It's not about being psychic - it's about probability.  He gets suspended for 4 games then 2 weeks later...

yea...I'd say there's a real good chance it happens again.

and no matter how you slice it its you making a prediction.  And off of that prediction you want to get rid of one of your enter players at a discounted rate out of fear of something you can't be sure will happen.  I don't see how this is a good move.