Francessa: Jets called Bucs about Glennon: MERGED

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

When I see a viable QB I'm happy to invest.

Glennon has not shown himself to be viable.  He's all projectionism and hype.  He's a failed starter who (unlike the constant claims about Sanchez and Geno) had Offensive talent around him and did poor, and was replaced by his team repeatedly and permanently as first opportunity.

He may have what it takes, he may not.  Thus far the evidence says not.  He originally cost a 3rd, played poorly and was benched, and that does not make your value higher, it makes your value lower.

Resign Fitz, we can afford it.  Or some other Journeyman Vet who won;t cost a draft pick, if you hate Fitz.  Or even Geno for one more year if we have no other Veteran choice.  He's free.   Continue to develop Petty.  If we need another QB, draft one, there will be better, younger, higher-upside QB's who will cost alot less salary-cap available int he 2nd or 3rd or even 4th rounds this year.

Remind me Tex, did the Pats pay a 2nd round pick to aquire Brady from a team that drafted him with a 7th?  No.  Theuy drafted him.  Good teams draft and devlop their own QB's.  We should do the same.  Veteran/Petty/Draft Pick.

Past poor drafts (which are irrelevant to this regime now) don;t mean we shouldn't get a 5-10 year O-line or LB starter with a 2nd round pick.   Or a QB prospect if opportunity and value falls that way.  Glennon is just another JAG fans have latched on to in desperation, because as you know, other teams castoffs and the Jets own #4's are ALWAYS awesome players who just need a "fair chance", right?

What offensive Talent did Mike Glennon have around him? Was it that offensive line that was rated bottom 3 in the league in 2013? Was it the running game where their #1 RB was riddled with injuries and Doug Martin racked up less than 1,000 yards in Glennon's first 2 seasons because of injuries and that Oline? Or are you just referring to the usual suspects, Vincent Jackson and Mike Evans?

Okay, lets go there. Vincent Jackson recorded his 2nd highest yards amount of his career (1,224 yards 7 TD's) with a rookie Mike Glennon throwing him the ball. Heck, in his first 7 years in San Diego Vincent Jackson never broke the 1,200 rec yards mark, yet he did it with Glennon back when Glennon was just a rookie. Vincents highest receptions total was the year prior in 2012, his first year with the Bucs. In Glennon's 2nd year Vincent again went over 1,000 yards, and in his first 3 years as a buc (2nd and 3rd year with Glennon) Jackson caught over 70 balls.

Now, for Mike Evans. To start, for every time I hear about "Mike Glennon's failing with all his offensive weapons", none of the people who ever make this statement ever include that Mike Evans only played 4 games with Mike Glennon. So only 4 of Glennon's 19 games did he even have Mike Evans as a target. With that said though, Mike Evans first ever 100 yard game came with Glennon passing him the ball. Mike Evans first 4 TD's were thrown by Mike Glennon. Remember, McCown started the first 3 games of the 2014 season with Mike Evans in the lineup and in 3 games Evans averaged less than 50 yards a game and 0TD's. Now im not placing blame at the feet of McCown, Evans was a rookie who didnt start getting things going until the last game he played with Glennon which was midseason. Then Evans took off. So, a rookie Mike Evans started his career and his first 3 games he had no TD's. Then in his next 4 games he plays with Glennon and suddenly this rookie is averaging a TD every game. Yeah, that really sucks! lol. 

So to act like Glennon had "all these weapons" is bull...the Bucs were a bad football team talent wise in 2013 and in 2014 drafted a very good WR that played well with Glennon....but was very much still an unknown, unproven rookie that only played 4 games. To exacerbate Glennon's targets to make it seem like he had all of this talent yet it went to waste is not telling the truth. Jackson had arguably his best season with a rookie Mike Glennon throwing him the football and Evans jump started his career with Glennon throwing him the ball. How is that somehow a failure? 

 

[Paradis]

Is this really a 7 page topic?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Savage69]

3 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

So what, he contributed to a Super Bowl title.

What did the Jets get for $17MM last year?

A 10-yard cushion?

For some it was a whoopie cushion..

[cant wait]

Just now, Snell41 said:

Hey man I know your opinion on the guy and it's warranted.  I get it.  But Glennon's stats are pedestrian, so much so that the Bucs opted to take a QB with a massive amount of baggage when they could have traded out of the spot with ease and use the picks to build a solid core around Glennon.  Slice it any way you want, that's a big indictment against him.  Ultimately Glennon's stats put him as a middle road type of QB.  He avg's about 210 yards (meh) a game with a 58% comp rate (meh) and about 2-1 TD/INT ratio (pretty good admittedly).  Not bad I admit, but that certainly doesn't make me think you can put your eggs into the franchise QB basket.  If we trade a 2nd for him and he bombs this year we just threw away a 2nd round pick.  You make a good point that we generally throw away our picks in the 2nd round anyway, but past performance does not have a future impact and all of that past performance was not on Mac.  Not only that, we will be put to the decision to immediately franchise him in 2017 paying him BIG money, or give him a long term contract that will also be big money.  Again if he bombs we threw away a 2nd round pick, if he middles the road we are put to a very tough decision.  The only way the trade looks good for us is if he reaches the potential you envision for him.  I personally don't see him being a 30/15 TD/INT QB with 4000 yards and a +60% comp rate.  As to your question about Glennon over the afformetioned busts, of course I'd choose Glennon.  But if you're asking Glennon vs. who Mac may be able to bring in with the power of a 2nd round pick, I'd like to see what Mac caqn do.  Just my honest opinion, and I'm fully willing to admit my opinion is in no way gold. 

Glennon's stats over 18 games are 4000+ yards 29/15 58.8%. You don't see him getting those numbers?

[cant wait]

58 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

I can elaborate, but I'd just be regurgitating what I've been showing/saying for over a year now here on this forum. Im looking to see someone else elaborate based on what they've seen in order for me to engage it with my feelings based on what I've seen. 

Please, you have the floor. 

I really don't know much about glennon that's why I'm asking you. Can you just point me in the right direction here? 

[PatsFanTX]

I really don't know much about glennon that's why I'm asking you. Can you just point me in the right direction here? 

Glennon > Fitz & Geno

[cant wait]

2 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

Glennon > Fitz & Geno

I believe it, but I just what to see what exactly is most promising other than the stats 

[Snell41]

9 minutes ago, cant wait said:

Glennon's stats over 18 games are 4000+ yards 29/15 58.8%. You don't see him getting those numbers?

Glennon avgs 210 yards a game.  That puts him around 3300 yearly (it's 19 games for his stats).  25 TD's, 12 INT's.  Again, not bad.  But given the complexity of the situation you're looking at us giving up a 2nd rounder that we either throw away for a one year bust if he fails, or we get put to a decision to franchise or pay him a whopping salary after one year.  If he throws 3300 yards, with a 25/12 TD/INT performance regardless of overall team performance that's enough to get him paid an Osweiler/Bradford contract, and if we do so we're married for 4 more years.  I don't doubt he can put up those numbers.  I just think the odds of this trade fare much further into the potential of "bust to avg" as opposed to "avg to great".  I'm just giving my opinion.

[southparkcpa]

8 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

Glennon > Fitz & Geno

Based on what exactly? At NC State, Glennon was a deer in head lights.

[Snell41]

11 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

Glennon > Fitz & Geno

Better than Geno for sure.  Better than Fitz, only in the sense that he's young and "could" potentially improve. 

[Savage69]

2 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Based on what exactly? At NC State, Glennon was a deer in head lights.

He had negative rushing ability in college doesn't say a lot about his mobility.. As a senior he had -164 yds http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/mike-glennon-1.html He was actually better in the Pro's..LOL

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, ChuckkieB said:

I guess it comes down to that I just don't think he's worth a 2nd rounder, even though I feel he's the best option out of any other QB linked to the Jets this off-season.  The Jets would have to believe that he can turn into a franchise QB to pull the trigger for a 2nd rounder, and I just don't think that's the case, but that's purely speculation on my part. The more that time goes on, I feel more strongly that the Jets are going to draft a QB in the first round.

Thats exactly what it is, because you and I both know that in a trade situation he wouldnt be a 1 year rental. Saying that he's a 1 year rental was just a way to make the trade look like a bad idea. 

 

I dont have a problem with people disagreeing with me on Glennon, only when people exaggerate with statements like "1 year rentals". With that said, I can respect the fact that you dont think Glennon is worth a 2nd. Maybe we'll actually start picking some players worth the 2nd. For almost the past 20 years it hasnt been the case (outside of David Harris). I figured that we should try another way to get value out of a pick that ends up blowing up in our face almost every year. 

[Dcat]

1 minute ago, Savage69 said:

He had negative rushing ability in college doesn't say a lot about his mobility.. As a senior he had -164 yds http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/mike-glennon-1.html He was actually better in the Pro's..LOL

Ken O'Brien II

[Villain The Foe]

50 minutes ago, peebag said:

Mike Glennon will be pumping gas for a living in three years.

But right now he's being negotiated over. 

[munchmemory]

Just now, Dcat said:

Ken O'Brien II

Oh God.  Back when I had a season ticket, during the Obie era, you could always find me.  I'd be the guy standing on the seat screaming "dump it" so loud that it would scare people.  And, he wouldn't and got creamed on numerous occasions.

[Savage69]

6 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Ken O'Brien II

I was thinking the same thing..

[FTL Jet Fan]

1 hour ago, ChuckkieB said:

I guess it comes down to that I just don't think he's worth a 2nd rounder, even though I feel he's the best option out of any other QB linked to the Jets this off-season.  The Jets would have to believe that he can turn into a franchise QB to pull the trigger for a 2nd rounder, and I just don't think that's the case, but that's purely speculation on my part. The more that time goes on, I feel more strongly that the Jets are going to draft a QB in the first round.

 

So who do you think the Jets will take in the first round?

 

[Villain The Foe]

58 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

Hey man I know your opinion on the guy and it's warranted.  I get it.  But Glennon's stats are pedestrian, so much so that the Bucs opted to take a QB with a massive amount of baggage when they could have traded out of the spot with ease and use the picks to build a solid core around Glennon.  Slice it any way you want, that's a big indictment against him.  Ultimately Glennon's stats put him as a middle road type of QB.  He avg's about 210 yards (meh) a game with a 58% comp rate (meh) and about 2-1 TD/INT ratio (pretty good admittedly).  Not bad I admit, but that certainly doesn't make me think you can put your eggs into the franchise QB basket.  If we trade a 2nd for him and he bombs this year we just threw away a 2nd round pick.  You make a good point that we generally throw away our picks in the 2nd round anyway, but past performance does not have a future impact and all of that past performance was not on Mac.  Not only that, we will be put to the decision to immediately franchise him in 2017 paying him BIG money, or give him a long term contract that will also be big money.  Again if he bombs we threw away a 2nd round pick, if he middles the road we are put to a very tough decision.  The only way the trade looks good for us is if he reaches the potential you envision for him.  I personally don't see him being a 30/15 TD/INT QB with 4000 yards and a +60% comp rate.  As to your question about Glennon over the afformetioned busts, of course I'd choose Glennon.  But if you're asking Glennon vs. who Mac may be able to bring in with the power of a 2nd round pick, I'd like to see what Mac caqn do.  Just my honest opinion, and I'm fully willing to admit my opinion is in no way gold. 

Glennon's stats are pedestrian based on what? I'd say the fact that he was a rookie and a sophomore. I think thats safe to say. I'd say the fact that he's had a different OC in both seasons and in his 2nd season the OC couldnt even fully install his offense because he had to take an emergency leave of absence in September. Why not present this? He averaged 211.8 yards per game with a 58.8 completion rate and a 2TD/1INT ratio. Question, if Geno Smith did this under his circumstances in his first two years do you think that we would have been scrambling to find a QB such as a Ryan Fitzpatrick last year? Furthermore, Geno was a 2nd round QB who was thrown into the mix because of a stupid ass decision by Rex Ryan (Similar situation to Glennon being thrown into the fire by stupid decisions by the franchise with their original starter) and it was originally that he'd sit and develop. If Geno did exactly what Glennon did we would be supporting him and talking about how he was worth that 2nd round because of what he did based on his circumstance. 

The reason why people take a negative position with Glennon only comes down to the asking price. If the asking price was a 7th rounder, based on the opportunity to keep Geno off the field (Jets fans) most here would be jumping at the opportunity and talking about all of Glennons attributes and how well he did despite his situation. We all know that the Bucs drafting Winston wasnt an indictment on Glennon, that was a decision on the coach who was hired and made it CRYSTAL CLEAR that he wanted to bring in his own QB and not take on another coaching staffs QB. What did Lovie do in his first 2 months as coach? He gets McCown and immediately names him starter. What happens when McCown is playing poorly and is injuried and Glennon comes in and plays better? Once McCown was healthy he benched Glennon. What happend when Lovie Smith purposefully tanked that week 17 game in order to secure his #1 spot for Jamies Winston? He pulled out all of his starters on offense and defense BUT kept McCown in the game. Thats not an indictment on Glennon thats a direct dismissal of Glennon based on the fact that the coach was more concerned with having a QB who would be solely attached to him than a guy that was obviously the Better QB for Lovie but being attached to the coaching staff who actually drafted him. 

 

"If Mike Glennon is traded for a 2nd rounder and he fails then we just threw away a 2nd round pick"? Are you seriously going to say that yet not say "If we trade for Glennon and we hit then that was the best 2nd round pick we've had in almost 20 years". Is it really hard to say that part? Also, are you saying that without also mentioning the fact that the rookies that we've taken with the 2nd round pick the overwhelming majority of the time has been a waste of the pick? Why not mention this? This is called pessimism. 

 

People want to keep the topic negative because that's what Jet fans (generally speaking) are good at. Glennon can only be a risk and a failure, he could never be a risk but a successful risk. Chan Gailey can get the best out of every QB...unless that QB's name is Geno Smith. Same negative position because Jet fans are just a negative fanbase, that dont want to risk anything or spend any money. If its not "a 2nd is risky" then its "if he has a great year then we have to pay him all this money". Some of the stuff I see just makes me shake my head. I dont mind the negative, but you can tell its purposeful when the positive is left out of a possible equation every single time. 

 

37 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Based on what exactly? At NC State, Glennon was a deer in head lights.

based on the fact that in the pros he wasnt a deer in the headlights. 

[peebag]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

You could be right but chances are he'll make more money next year as you'll make in your lifetime.

What does this have to do with anything?

[peebag]

26 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

But right now he's being negotiated over. 

That's purely speculation.

[Villain The Foe]

4 minutes ago, peebag said:

That's purely speculation.

Licht confirmed my speculation sir. 

 

lol. 

[FTL Jet Fan]

1 hour ago, Snell41 said:

Hey man I know your opinion on the guy and it's warranted.  I get it.  But Glennon's stats are pedestrian, so much so that the Bucs opted to take a QB with a massive amount of baggage when they could have traded out of the spot with ease and use the picks to build a solid core around Glennon.  Slice it any way you want, that's a big indictment against him.  Ultimately Glennon's stats put him as a middle road type of QB.  He avg's about 210 yards (meh) a game with a 58% comp rate (meh) and about 2-1 TD/INT ratio (pretty good admittedly).  Not bad I admit, but that certainly doesn't make me think you can put your eggs into the franchise QB basket.  If we trade a 2nd for him and he bombs this year we just threw away a 2nd round pick.  You make a good point that we generally throw away our picks in the 2nd round anyway, but past performance does not have a future impact and all of that past performance was not on Mac.  Not only that, we will be put to the decision to immediately franchise him in 2017 paying him BIG money, or give him a long term contract that will also be big money.  Again if he bombs we threw away a 2nd round pick, if he middles the road we are put to a very tough decision.  The only way the trade looks good for us is if he reaches the potential you envision for him.  I personally don't see him being a 30/15 TD/INT QB with 4000 yards and a +60% comp rate.  As to your question about Glennon over the afformetioned busts, of course I'd choose Glennon.  But if you're asking Glennon vs. who Mac may be able to bring in with the power of a 2nd round pick, I'd like to see what Mac caqn do.  Just my honest opinion, and I'm fully willing to admit my opinion is in no way gold.

As long as he is better than Devin Smith.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

That much is clear, and no, it's not "simple" whatsoever.  

Which is why I don't believe for a second our Front Office will trade for Glennon.  Not for a 2nd.  Not for a 4th.  Maybe a 5th of lower, maybe.

I have no doubt we're trying to get better.  I also have no doubt that Glennon doesn't make us better, it just adds yet more "ok, lets try this now" one year uncertainty giving a trial run to another (bad) teams castoff leavings.

With Glennon there a is a chance we get better.  Staying with Fitz gives us pretty much no chance of getting better.  Some, like Charlie Casserly believe Fitz had his year, will decline and probably never duplicate what he did a year ago.

and that wasn't enough

[Irish Jet]

I'd rather draft a QB.

There's a reason this guy is where he is. Not the answer and we'll likely get rinsed for him.

[Villain The Foe]

8 minutes ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

As long as he is better than Devin Smith.

Or Jace Amaro. 

[ChuckkieB]

20 minutes ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

 

I think they'll pick Lynch at 20, unless they decide to package Wilkerson and picks to a team in the top 10 to grab one of the top two QB's. 

[Villain The Foe]

3 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

I'd rather draft a QB.

There's a reason this guy is where he is. Not the answer and we'll likely get rinsed for him.

There's a reason behind everything....but saying this^^^^^ only leaves that reasoning up to one's imagination without  you actually having to give one. This is a play on words. How about telling us why Glennon is in the situation he's in since you know why. 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

That much is clear, and no, it's not "simple" whatsoever.  

Which is why I don't believe for a second our Front Office will trade for Glennon.  Not for a 2nd.  Not for a 4th.  Maybe a 5th of lower, maybe.

I have no doubt we're trying to get better.  I also have no doubt that Glennon doesn't make us better, it just adds yet more "ok, lets try this now" one year uncertainty giving a trial run to another (bad) teams castoff leavings.

Signing your player, a guy who's rights you can hold onto makes it as simple a signing as there is.  There is no arguing this.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jet Nut]

18 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

I'd rather draft a QB.

There's a reason this guy is where he is. Not the answer and we'll likely get rinsed for him.

And why can't you do both? 

There is a reason he is where he is. But it has nothin to do with what he did or didn't do on the field.  

[Jet Nut]

4 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

I think they'll pick Lynch at 20, unless they decide to package Wilkerson and picks to a team in the top 10 to grab one of the top two QB's. 

Lynch wont be there at 20. 

 

[Villain The Foe]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

And why can't you do both? 

There is a reason he is where he is. And it has nothin to do with what he did or didn't do on the filed.  

Exactly. 

[Irish Jet]

18 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

There's a reason behind everything....but saying this^^^^^ only leaves that reasoning up to one's imagination without  you actually having to give one. This is a play on words. How about telling us why Glennon is in the situation he's in since you know why. 

Quite simple.

His team replaced him and not one of the other 31 teams have valued him highly enough to trade for him.

If he was truly considered a franchise QB in waiting I'm pretty sure they'd be spoiled for trade offers. No NFL team seems to value him as highly as you do.

Not saying they're definitely right or you're definitely wrong and I haven't seen enough of him at NFL level to claim to know anything you don't - But it see his valuation around here as pretty mythical based on anything the guy has actually done. 

 

[Villain The Foe]

10 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

Quite simple.

His team replaced him and not one of the other 31 teams have valued him highly enough to trade for him.

If he was truly a franchise QB in waiting I'm pretty sure they'd be spoiled for trade offers. No NFL team seems to value him as highly as you do.

 

yeah, because thats what 31 other teams did with Drew Brees right? Or was that just "different"??? Just another play on words my friend. 

lol. 

[ChuckkieB]

12 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Lynch wont be there at 20. 

 

Who do you think will take him?

[Scoop24]

2 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

Who do you think will take him?

There's a very good change he can be there., LA would be only threat there's imo if he get out the top 10 which he most likely given Wentz and Goff wil be the first QBs off the board ..