Taking money out of the equation, Fitz or Geno

[PatsFanTX]

You really hate Revis since he left New England

Never liked him when he was on the Pats.

He had a good 4-6 game stretch mid-season and then he was horrible down the stretch, and especially in the playoffs.

He's the most overrated, overpayed player in the NFL.

[JetsFanatic]

Revis #23 of the top 100 players. PatsFanTx is an imbecile.

[billo83]

3 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

 

 

Never liked him when he was on the Pats.

 

He had a good 4-6 game stretch mid-season and then he was horrible down the stretch, and especially in the playoffs.

 

He's the most overrated, overpayed player in the NFL.

He may be overpaid but he will be a first ballot HOF and considered one of the best ever. Don't know how he's overrated. And he doesn't cheat

[Rangers9]

5 minutes ago, billo83 said:

He may be overpaid but he will be a first ballot HOF and considered one of the best ever. Don't know how he's overrated. And he doesn't cheat

Revis was on that Deflategate team. 

[billo83]

1 minute ago, Rangers9 said:

Revis was on that Deflategate team. 

Good point!

 

[joewilly12]

42 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

 

 

Never liked him when he was on the Pats.

 

He had a good 4-6 game stretch mid-season and then he was horrible down the stretch, and especially in the playoffs.

 

He's the most overrated, overpayed player in the NFL.

STOP you have very little credibility here as it is.

[Rangers9]

Revis is still a very good player but he's not elite. He can no longer cover the top young receivers but he's smart enough to usually get the job done. And he's a leader on the field something the Jets needed on D big time. But he's not the 24th best player in the NFL. Btw they listed Marshall as 25th best (he was 57th the previous season with the Bears). The Jets either didn't do their due diligence scouting him or Woody to deflect criticism was willing to give him whatever he was asking for (I remember the 40 mil figure being tossed out as what he wanted and Woody gave it to him). It was a stupid contract way overpaying him the first 3 years and still paying him a lot if they keep him after the guaranteed money runs out. He will be HOF and probably is our best player of all time. Belichick got a good deal on him for the 12 mil. And he usually doesn't pay players esp CBs that much money. It shows you the kind of respect for Revis around the NFL. But no way NEP gives him that 20 mil for year 2. Which would have made it a 2 year 32 mil contract. They're not that stupid. And I'm talking about my favorite all time Jets player. 

[PatsFanTX]

He may be overpaid but he will be a first ballot HOF and considered one of the best ever. Don't know how he's overrated. And he doesn't cheat

Revis will never be a 1st ballot HOFer.

Unless he improves his stats the next couple of years, he is borderline to even get in to the HOF.

Research the 50 guys who vote for the HOF, they are all stats driven.

Revis stats suck.

[ylekram]

2 hours ago, billo83 said:

No it's not just week 17. It's the fact that he hasn't gotten a team to the playoffs, chokes in big games, and benefited from superb play by Marshall (which opened things up for Decker), an excellent OC. Take away Marshall and Fitz doesn't even go 8-8 not to mention what he'd do without Chan. 

 

Your man love for Fitz is perplexing

besides your version of week 17, what other "big games" did Fitzpatrick "choke" in? considering fitz only won 6 games in any given season, my guess is that you are just making it up. don't worry tho, I have been pointing out a lot of lies, exaggerations, and made up stuff all week from the peanut gallery.

[Villain The Foe]

2 hours ago, billo83 said:

If Denver thought Fitz was a better option at QB they would have tried to sign him before even considering Sanchez. 

They probably did think Fitz was a better option, but based on the ridiculous amount of money he's requesting Denver did the right thing. Sanchez is worth more based on what Denver had to give for his services. I seriously believe that Fitz will sit this season out before ever finding a team delirious enough to pay him what he's looking for. 

[Villain The Foe]

23 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

 

 

Revis will never be a 1st ballot HOFer.

 

Unless he improves his stats the next couple of years, he is borderline to even get in to the HOF.

 

Research the 50 guys who vote for the HOF, they are all stats driven.

 

Revis stats suck.

There's something that's much more relevant than stats....its called "impact". 

 

Revis can retire today and will most certainly have a head piece 5 years from today in Canton Ohio. 

[slats]

1 hour ago, PatsFanTX said:

 

 

Revis will never be a 1st ballot HOFer.

 

Unless he improves his stats the next couple of years, he is borderline to even get in to the HOF.

 

Research the 50 guys who vote for the HOF, they are all stats driven.

 

Revis stats suck.

Check: passer rating against. Consistently one of the -if not the- best in the league. 

But he's a HoF'er on reputation alone. You know this, Trolly McTrollovich. 

[RutgersJetFan]

22 minutes ago, slats said:

Trolly McTrollovich. 

On Independence Day, no less; when nothing says "I love my country" like ignoring your family and spending the day trolling an internet forum.

[BowlesMovement]

1 hour ago, PatsFanTX said:

 

 

Revis will never be a 1st ballot HOFer.

 

Unless he improves his stats the next couple of years, he is borderline to even get in to the HOF.

 

Research the 50 guys who vote for the HOF, they are all stats driven.

 

Revis stats suck.

Is this the informative type post that you referring to? The ones where I can learn something from opposing point of views? 

[j4jets]

12 hours ago, Warfish said:

The 2014 and 2015 Offenses (QB Not Included):

RB#1  2014, Chris Ivory, 2015, Chris Ivory --- Same
RB#2  2014, Bilal Powell, 2015, Bilal Powell --- Same
RB#3  2014, Chris Johnson, 2015, Stevan Ridley --- Advantage 2014
FB#1  2014, John Connon (+Bo), 2015, Tommy Bohannon -- Irrelevant Advantage 2014
WR#1 2014, Percy Harvin (8 Games), 2015, Brandon Marshall --- Major Material Advantage 2015
WR#2 2014, Eric Decker, 2015, Eric Decker --- Same
WR#3 2014, Jeremy Kerley, 2015, Jeremy Kerley --- Same
WR#4 2014, Greg Salas, 2015, Quincy Enunwa -- Slight Advantage 2015
WR#5 2014, David Nelson, 2015, Kenbrell Thompkins -- Irrelevant Advantage 2015
TE#1  2014, Jace Amaro (+Cumb), 2015, Jeff Cumberland -- Advantage 2014
LT#1  2014,  D'Brick Ferguson, 2015, D'Brick Ferguson -- Same
LG#1 2014, Oday Abushi, 2015, James Carpenter -- Advantage 2015
CT#1 2014, Nick Mangold, 2015, Nick Mangold -- Same
RG#1 2014, Willie Colon, 2015, Brian Winters -- Slight Advantage 2015?
LG #1 2014, Breno Giacomini, 2015, Breno Giacomini -- Same

O-Co 2014:  Marty Mornhinweg (8 Top 10 Offenses in 15 Seasons)
O-Co 2015:  Chan Gailey (4 Top 10 Offenses in 13 Seasons)

Folks can judge for themselves if 2014 had "no talent" nd 2015 had "massive talent" or if they were more similar than different.

RBs - Same (CJ was a shell of himself and had one big play the entire year while Chris Ivory enjoyed a career year in 2015)

WRs - #1 (2014) Decker (2015) Marshall - not even close. Decker was #1 in 2014 n he's ill suited to be #1.

WR #2 (2014) Percy half way through the season, David Nelson (5 games), Greg Salas 2 games (2015) Decker. I think this is a no brainer as well unless you wanna argue?

TE advantage goes to 2014 cuz Jace Amaro lit up the NFL I guess. 

OL - 2015 >>> 2014 

so you're essentially saying TE and the third RB advantage in 2014 was equivalent to the entire WR Depth chart advantage in 2015. You do realize with Marshall on board, Decker didn't have to face the #1 corners the entire year, right? All this while the Davud Nelsons and Greg Salas of the world had to face the #2 CBs half the season as starters. How on earth is that "similar"?

[j4jets]

6 hours ago, BroadwayBen said:

In four of our six losses, Fitz had a QBR of below 30, a completion percentage below 50%, 10 INTs, below 6 yards per attempt, Oh and he threw over 35 passes in each of these games... That journeyman status just oozing right back out when he is asked to carry a heavy burden. Tremendously low ceiling. 

Low ceiling? Lol Good players have ceilings. Fitz has limitations. 

[Warfish]

9 hours ago, j4jets said:

RBs - Same (CJ was a shell of himself and had one big play the entire year while Chris Ivory enjoyed a career year in 2015)

Shell or not, C.J. was still superior to Ridley.  

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WRs - #1 (2014) Decker (2015) Marshall - not even close. Decker was #1 in 2014 n he's ill suited to be #1.

Hence the "Material Improvement" assigned to Marshall for 2015.  Decker is/was still Decker, he still played in 2014.  The "no talent" crowd loves to ignore or minimize that Decker was here.  

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WR #2 (2014) Percy half way through the season, David Nelson (5 games), Greg Salas 2 games (2015) Decker. I think this is a no brainer as well unless you wanna argue?

2014 had Percy Harvin (for 8), Decker, Kerley, Salas, Nelson and Amaro, a pretty weak unit apart from Decker, Kerley and Amaro (ignoring Harvin).  The 2015 unit had Marshall, Decker, Kerley, Enunwa and Thomkins with nothing at TE.  A much better unit at the top because of Marshall, although Kerley was dumped rather than be used.  So the difference boils down to a Marshall for Kerley & Amaro in terms of who got thrown to, and that's a big, material upgrade.   

Not sure what you're trying to debate further, frankly.

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TE advantage goes to 2014 cuz Jace Amaro lit up the NFL I guess. 

He was better than what was here playing in 2015, yes.  38 catches is 38 catches.  Marshall (109 catches) replaced Kerley (who was benched rather than be used as the #3, 38), Amaro (who was hurt and unavailable, 38) and Harvin (who he actually replaced, 29), production wise, as one would expect given one was gone (Harvin), one was in the doghouse (Kerley) and one was hurt (Amaro).

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OL - 2015 >>> 2014

About the same actually.  Our upgrades were ok'ish, but one of our best players (Brick) was obviously and materially worse, Mangold was slightly worse as well, much as that pains me.  Overall as a unit, I call it even.  But of course, Geno fans can't accept that because "he just needs a fair chance" with "talent around him".

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so you're essentially saying TE and the third RB advantage in 2014 was equivalent to the entire WR Depth chart advantage in 2015. You do realize with Marshall on board, Decker didn't have to face the #1 corners the entire year, right? All this while the Davud Nelsons and Greg Salas of the world had to face the #2 CBs half the season as starters. How on earth is that "similar"?

I'm saying apart from Marshall in place of Kerley/Amaro, there was no material improvement in offensive talent between 2014 and 2015.  While Marshall was a material upgrade, he alone does not account for the increased performance of the offense.  

Listen, if you want to believe the 2014 roster on O was talentless top to bottom, and poor Geno was abused because of it, have at it.  

What will matter is what happens now, going forward.  If the staff believes in your theory, they will go with Geno, Fitz will not be resigned, and Geno will duplicate or surpass the production Fitz had last year because despite a harder schedule, Geno is (as you folks say all the time) younger, faster and better.  And cheaper to boot.

If Fitz is resigned at the reported contract offer level (12/6/6), it says everything that needs to be said about how the staff and front office, who know Geno vastly better than you do, feel about him and his potential.

[Jet Nut]

18 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

Giving one contract offer 5 months ago and not being willing to negotiate off of it isn't being tough it's being stupid. There's give and take on any deal and take it or leave its aren't smart esp with a starting Qb. Basically a 5 month standoff is incompetent. And creates a Qb controversy and a distraction which don't help the team. He doesn't know how to negotiate contracts, obviously. And sometimes you can win the battle but lose the war. 

Actually it shows resolve.  It shows this is what he believes Fitz is worth and he's not going to be bullied into spending more, screwing up his budget for a journeyman trying to get one last payday by holding up the Jets.  He's sticking to his guns aware that Geno isn't that much of a drop off if any that already is under contract who's dying to prove his worth.  

Being stupid would to scrap your budget and plans because a middling talent is playing dare with the only team interested in him on any level.  GMs act in the best interest of the team, should work towards the long term success of the team.  Not to make fans who don't give a shlt about anything more than the poster boy in their rooms 

[j4jets]

7 hours ago, Warfish said:

Shell or not, C.J. was still superior to Ridley. 

Fair point, but like you mentioned, not "material" enough to make a difference

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Hence the "Material Improvement" assigned to Marshall for 2015.  Decker is/was still Decker, he still played in 2014.  The "no talent" crowd loves to ignore or minimize that Decker was here. 

Decker at #2/slot >>>>>> Decker at #1. Its not even close. Just having Decker doesn't mean anything. Its what position he plays. "The no talent" comment of yours suggest we could pick up Wes Welker in his prime and shove to the outside as #1 while playing a bunch of street FAs at #2 and not be able to tell the difference in talent. Wrong on many levels, not just the NFL.

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2014 had Percy Harvin (for 8), Decker, Kerley, Salas, Nelson and Amaro, a pretty weak unit apart from Decker, Kerley and Amaro (ignoring Harvin).  The 2015 unit had Marshall, Decker, Kerley, Enunwa and Thomkins with nothing at TE.  A much better unit at the top because of Marshall, although Kerley was dumped rather than be used.  So the difference boils down to a Marshall for Kerley & Amaro in terms of who got thrown to, and that's a big, material upgrade.  

Like I said, having Marshall upgrades the entire WR depth chart by pushing every WR down a notch and commanding double team coverage himself.

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He was better than what was here playing in 2015, yes.  38 catches is 38 catches.  Marshall (109 catches) replaced Kerley (who was benched rather than be used as the #3, 38), Amaro (who was hurt and unavailable, 38) and Harvin (who he actually replaced, 29), production wise, as one would expect given one was gone (Harvin), one was in the doghouse (Kerley) and one was hurt (Amaro).

This is not Moneyball so I suggest you stop it right there and not try to throw a curveball. It doesn't exist in the NFL.

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About the same actually.  Our upgrades were ok'ish, but one of our best players (Brick) was obviously and materially worse, Mangold was slightly worse as well, much as that pains me.  Overall as a unit, I call it even.  But of course, Geno fans can't accept that because "he just needs a fair chance" with "talent around him".

Carpenter was actually our #2 OL behind only Mangold last year. Everything else was a push. Clearly it boils down to Carpenter vs. Oday and thats a tough one to answer I guess since Oday was lighting up the NFL.

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I'm saying apart from Marshall in place of Kerley/Amaro, there was no material improvement in offensive talent between 2014 and 2015.  While Marshall was a material upgrade, he alone does not account for the increased performance of the offense. 

Lets see. Im willing to agree that the difference between Carpenter upgrade and TE downgrade are a push (although Enunwa played the H-back role). But to say that we replaced Kerley/Amaro with Marshall is asinine and I'll tell you why.

2014 - Geno got benched after Harvin's first game. They had zero chemistry, zero timing, and almost zero practice together (2 practices I believe). After the benching, you saw Geno play at a much higher level when he Had Harvin on the outside and Decker played outside and inside. Harvin and Decker <<<<< Marshall and Decker. Harvin joined mid-year and even if he was with the team for 8 years prior to the season, he's still not anywhere near the league of Marshall.

2015 - Rewatch the first 4-5 games. See how badly Fitz was throwing to Devin Smith. I know you won't watch the games but I can assure you every pass towards Devin Smith was underthrown. Underthrown passes have no correlation to him being a rookie. He played on the outside along with Marshall while Decker played against the #3 corners in the slot for the majority of the time. Marshall commanded double coverage the entire year. Kerley wasn't used in 2015 while he was the starter in half the games in 2014. Just because Kerley was starting in 2014 doesn't mean he was in the doghouse in 2015. It simply means he wasn't good enough to start in 2015 while the team wasn't good enough at WR to NOT start him in 2014.

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Listen, if you want to believe the 2014 roster on O was talentless top to bottom, and poor Geno was abused because of it, have at it.  

What will matter is what happens now, going forward.  If the staff believes in your theory, they will go with Geno, Fitz will not be resigned, and Geno will duplicate or surpass the production Fitz had last year because despite a harder schedule, Geno is (as you folks say all the time) younger, faster and better.  And cheaper to boot.

If Fitz is resigned at the reported contract offer level (12/6/6), it says everything that needs to be said about how the staff and front office, who know Geno vastly better than you do, feel about him and his potential.

I'll be pissed if we sign Fitz, but I often hope we do. We don't have a cake of a schedule in 2016 like we did in 2015 so when Fitz' inflated stats come tumbling down, I wanna be the first one to call out the Fitznutz. Now if Geno starts, he's not going to match the production of Fitz from 2015 simply because he won't be playing 12 games against passing Ds ranked in the bottom 14. 12 out of the worst 14 Ds. You read that right. Let it sink in before you say "surpass the production Fitz had" cuz his only production I remember included 3 ints in a game that meant everything for him and nothing for the depleted D that put in half ass effort and still bitch-slapped Fitz and the Jets.

[Warfish]

 

3 minutes ago, j4jets said:

I'll be pissed if we sign Fitz, but I often hope we do. We don't have a cake of a schedule in 2016 like we did in 2015 so when Fitz' inflated stats come tumbling down, I wanna be the first one to call out the Fitznutz.

This says alot about your priorities.  You'd clearly rather be right than win with Fitz.

Fitz or Geno, all I hope for in 2016 is winning games.  Nothing would please me more than to have Geno prove me a fool and win 10 games and throw 30+ TD's in 2016.

3 minutes ago, j4jets said:

Now if Geno starts, he's not going to match the production of Fitz from 2015 simply because..... 

You play the schedule you're given, and you either do it well, or you don't.  There will be no excuses left for Geno if he starts and fails to perform.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

Easy schedules = hard schedules

This year = last year

Last year = two years ago

Greg Salas = Brandon Marshall

Decker's torn hamstring = Decker's not-torn hamstring

Quick-read offense that virtually lines up the progressions in the same line of sight but at different depths = more complex ones that require a QB's head to be on a swivel from sideline to sideline  

Repetition of opinion = fact

Spending future $ now = leaves us with the same spending ability later

Fitzpatrick = Gannon

Fitzpatrick = Palmer

Bruce = Caitlyn

Men = women

Fat = skinny

Tall = short

2016 Jets = realistic Super Bowl contenders even with Fitzpatrick signed

[Warfish]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Easy schedules = hard schedules

This year = last year

Last year = two years ago

Greg Salas = Brandon Marshall

Decker's torn hamstring = Decker's not-torn hamstring

Quick-read offense that virtually lines up the progressions in the same line of sight but at different depths = more complex ones that require a QB's head to be on a swivel from sideline to sideline  

Repetition of opinion = fact

Spending future $ now = leaves us with the same spending ability later

Fitzpatrick = Gannon

Fitzpatrick = Palmer

Bruce = Caitlyn

Men = women

Fat = skinny

Tall = short

2016 Jets = realistic Super Bowl contenders even with Fitzpatrick signed

Spin all you like, here is the reality.

The Jets are going to play 16 football games this year.  They're going to try and win every one.  If they lose many more than they win, that's bad and does nothing for us fans (consumers), nor for the franchises development going forward.

Everything else, all the pre-emptive excuse making and deflection and whining, whelp, it's just the same old same old hot air.  No one is going to give anyone a prize for trying real hard if they lose.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Spin all you like, here is the reality.

The Jets are going to play 16 football games this year.  They're going to try and win every one.  If they lose many more than they win, that's bad and does nothing for us fans (consumers), nor for the franchises development going forward.

Everything else, all the pre-emptive excuse making and deflection and whining, whelp, it's just the same old same old hot air.  No one is going to give anyone a prize for trying real hard if they lose.

Lol like a moth to a flame. 

[j4jets]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

 

This says alot about your priorities.  You'd clearly rather be right than win with Fitz.

Fitz or Geno, all I hope for in 2016 is winning games.  Nothing would please me more than to have Geno prove me a fool and win 10 games and throw 30+ TD's in 2016.

You play the schedule you're given, and you either do it well, or you don't.  There will be no excuses left for Geno if he starts and fails to perform.

 

My priority is to win as well. Why else would I be trying to back up Geno? I'm supporting him cuz I know he's better than Fitz. Fitz won't win more than 7-8 games this year with us. If Geno is worse, he'll win maybe 4-6 games. If he's better, he may win us 7-9. If he's the same, then why spend $12mil on Fitz? I would rather win 10 n a playoff spot (most seasons) or win like 5 n get a high draft pick. I don't wanna win 8 games AND pay $12 mil to a journeyman QB when I have someone similar if not better. 

[mkajet01]

Fitz! Geno sucks

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