Guity of kool-aid...But this team is still rebuilding

[CanadaSteve]

I am guilty too.  I was hoping this season would have been different.

But the worse thing about 2015 was not missing the playoffs by a game, it was believing this team was MUCH farther along in their rebuild.  We were totally lucky having the schedule we did and believing Fitz' revival was anything but a fluke. 

All you have to do is look at this team's roster and its history this decade to know its true. Since 2010, and not including 2015 and 2016, this team has had 37 drafts picks.  7 of those 37 picks were #1's. Of those 7 #1's, only 3 are on the team, and two of them are on the defensive line.  The other is pretending to play safety for us currently.  Now here is the stat we collectively need to embrace.  Of the 37 picks the Jets have drafted between 2010-2014, there are 9 left on the team.  NINE.  Let that number sink in.  That is a 24 percent draft rate. 

The team we are always comparing to, the Patriots, and we always talk about BB's terrible draft history and how he collects draft picks only to throw them away, have 13 of their 41.  31 percent.  Of their 5 first round picks, 3 are with the team, 1 was just traded this year, and the other is with the Rams after a messy divorce and playing well. 

This team was so bereft of talent it is no wonder we have not been to the playoffs since 2010?  We have continually drafted poorly since then, and our playoff appearances have shown.  In the NFL, if you cannot draft, you cannot win....period.

This teams was always 4 years of solid drafting away.  So far, it looks pretty good, although we need another year to see about the 2015 draft.  The key, as always, will be in finding a QB in all those drafts.

So everyone should come back off the fire the entire FO ledge, and let this play out at least another year before we start gathering the pitch forks.  If it is true that Woody listens to the fans because he wants to make money, all it will do is keep this franchise sitting on the tread mill.

 

[joewilly12]

What is there to look forward too?  What positives can you take out of this season so far?  Coaching has been terrible on all sides of the ball. 

[Tinstar]

This team will be rebuilding until we find a QB. We need to learn how to lose well .

[Matt39]

We should probably stop trading draft picks then.

[CanadaSteve]

3 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

We should probably stop trading draft picks then.

Um....I would not consider the few trades Mac has made as equal to the fiasco known as Mike Tannenbaum.

 

[CanadaSteve]

48 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

What is there to look forward too?  What positives can you take out of this season so far?  Coaching has been terrible on all sides of the ball. 

Nothing.  Think of what the Raider fan base went through for a decade until Al Davis died and someone actually started understanding the concept of drafting good players.

[UnitedWhofans]

4 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

We should probably stop trading draft picks then.

Macc gets draft picks back in trades. Biggest difference between Tanny and Macc. And why Macc is better

[rex-n-effect]

The roster was in such an awful state after Idzik left that it's going to be a multi-year project to put together a viable team. You can't buy or draft at every position in one or two years and even if you could not all draft picks reach starter skill level right away. Macc couldn't just sit and spend the minimum until he can draft together a team. Woody wouldn't tolerate it, the fans wouldn't tolerate it and players wouldn't tolerate it. Players wouldn't come here or won't stay if the team is trash--if they will come/stay it's at a premium which means it's more expensive to put together and keep a team. Look at how many players came for workouts here and didn't sign during the Tannenbaum and Idzik years. That has a lot to do with it.

If you think about how much they had to cut out of the team--even starters--and how much rebuilding has already been done then it's hard to say Macc has done a poor job. You can look at several positions and say there is still work to do. I agree, I think everybody agrees, but that comes back to the inability to take a team from the broken and dysfunctional state of 2013/2014 to a playoff team in just two years. We didn't just need replacements at skill positions like a typical rebuild. We needed starters and depth almost everywhere. 

Honestly the roster is not even that bad right now. We've seen a lot of the players on the roster perform better than they have during our three losses so it's not as though the ability to perform at a competitive level isn't there. They aren't doing it and that comes back to the coaching, the game plan and the way plays are being called. 

[CanadaSteve]

6 minutes ago, rex-n-effect said:

The roster was in such an awful state after Idzik left that it's going to be a multi-year project to put together a viable team. You can't buy or draft at every position in one or two years and even if you could not all draft picks reach starter skill level right away. Macc couldn't just sit and spend the minimum until he can draft together a team. Woody wouldn't tolerate it, the fans wouldn't tolerate it and players wouldn't tolerate it. Players wouldn't come here or won't stay if the team is trash--if they will come/stay it's at a premium which means it's more expensive to put together and keep a team. Look at how many players came for workouts here and didn't sign during the Tannenbaum and Idzik years. That has a lot to do with it.

If you think about how much they had to cut out of the team--even starters--and how much rebuilding has already been done then it's hard to say Macc has done a poor job. You can look at several positions and say there is still work to do. I agree, I think everybody agrees, but that comes back to the inability to take a team from the broken and dysfunctional state of 2013/2014 to a playoff team in just two years. We didn't just need replacements at skill positions like a typical rebuild. We needed starters and depth almost everywhere. 

Honestly the roster is not even that bad right now. We've seen a lot of the players on the roster perform better than they have during our three losses so it's not as though the ability to perform at a competitive level isn't there. They aren't doing it and that comes back to the coaching, the game plan and the way plays are being called. 

Exactly.  Mac is doing his job.  I am starting to wonder if Bowles may have been in over his head as a head coach.  Remember, BB stunk it up in Cleveland his first chance, and only got to become what he did after he had a legit QB.

[jeremy2020]

This team is the exact opposite of "rebuilding"...you don't sign high priced veteran's to "rebuild"

Not to mention that "rebuilding" int he NFL is a 1-2 year deal. It's not like the NHL

[dbatesman]

Our QB1, WR1, WR2, LT, RB1, C, TE1, CB1, and ILB are all over 30, but yeah, totes rebuilding

[Beerfish]

No they are not rebuilding.  Not anymore than any other team in the league.

[jbone]

4 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Our QB1, WR1, WR2, LT, RB1, C, TE1, CB1, and ILB are all over 30, but yeah, totes rebuilding

Not to mention the 8th highest payroll in the league, as per Jason from OTC.

[CanadaSteve]

15 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

This team is the exact opposite of "rebuilding"...you don't sign high priced veteran's to "rebuild"

Not to mention that "rebuilding" int he NFL is a 1-2 year deal. It's not like the NHL

Wrong....the team HAD to sign veterans.  They had over $40 million to spend to reach the CAP FLOOR.  All of those contracts are up next year....Even Revis with a hit.  Some of those contracts are already gone with NO dead money.  You do not rebuild in 2 year when you have drafted poorly for 6 years.  This isn't Madden.

[CanadaSteve]

10 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

No they are not rebuilding.  Not anymore than any other team in the league.

They are Beer, and they always were.  We were all fooled by the Kool-Aid called the 2015 season and the 'rebirth' of Ryan Fitzpatrick.  This is the team we should have had last year. 

[Adoni Beast]

We are rebuilding. Fitz, Revis, Cro last year, Harris, Forte, Marshall were just to keep us competitive while we rebuild. Last year got a lot of us (me included) blinded with optimism this year. But by the bye week we hopefully should be starting Petty, Robbie Anderson, Peake, Ross, etc to see who can start next year. Let Decker and Brandon Marshall heal up and see if they have another year two in them. 

Our secondary is trash. Calvin pryor has reverted back to a bust after a decent year last year. Revis fell off a cliff. Gilchrist sucks. Complete revamp.

Also its tough to coach and play aggressive when your QB keeps throwing the ball away. Fitz has been off target so much the last two games, his 9 picks could easily be 12-15 and I'm not exaggerating.

[j4jets]

1 hour ago, CanadaSteve said:

I am guilty too.  I was hoping this season would have been different.

But the worse thing about 2015 was not missing the playoffs by a game, it was believing this team was MUCH farther along in their rebuild.  We were totally lucky having the schedule we did and believing Fitz' revival was anything but a fluke. 

All you have to do is look at this team's roster and its history this decade to know its true. Since 2010, and not including 2015 and 2016, this team has had 37 drafts picks.  7 of those 37 picks were #1's. Of those 7 #1's, only 3 are on the team, and two of them are on the defensive line.  The other is pretending to play safety for us currently.  Now here is the stat we collectively need to embrace.  Of the 37 picks the Jets have drafted between 2010-2014, there are 9 left on the team.  NINE.  Let that number sink in.  That is a 24 percent draft rate. 

The team we are always comparing to, the Patriots, and we always talk about BB's terrible draft history and how he collects draft picks only to throw them away, have 13 of their 41.  31 percent.  Of their 5 first round picks, 3 are with the team, 1 was just traded this year, and the other is with the Rams after a messy divorce and playing well. 

This team was so bereft of talent it is no wonder we have not been to the playoffs since 2010?  We have continually drafted poorly since then, and our playoff appearances have shown.  In the NFL, if you cannot draft, you cannot win....period.

This teams was always 4 years of solid drafting away.  So far, it looks pretty good, although we need another year to see about the 2015 draft.  The key, as always, will be in finding a QB in all those drafts.

So everyone should come back off the fire the entire FO ledge, and let this play out at least another year before we start gathering the pitch forks.  If it is true that Woody listens to the fans because he wants to make money, all it will do is keep this franchise sitting on the tread mill.

 

This is not a rebuild year. 

[Play2Win]

i am annoyed as well but how about the fact that we have zero depth due to shotty drafting in the past few years .

Team full of overpriced veterans and many young players that wouldn't be on many rosters


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Warfish]

I reject the idea it was cool aid.  This remains a playoff-caliber talent-level roster.

This team should be materially better in a number of ways.  They have the talent to be.

Playing well below your talent/ability makes it a disappointment, not a failure of analysis.

 

[joewilly12]

4 minutes ago, Play2Win said:

i am annoyed as well but how about the fact that we have zero depth due to shotty drafting in the past few years .

Team full of overpriced veterans and many young players that wouldn't be on many rosters


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sadly if the QB wasn't on our roster he wouldn't be on anyone else's. Says a lot about your team and coaching decisions and GM decisions. 

[ZachEY]

Who, exactly, are we building around?

Leonard Williams, Quincy Enunwa, and Mohammed Wilkerson?

Anyone else?

[j4jets]

1 hour ago, CanadaSteve said:

Wrong....the team HAD to sign veterans.  They had over $40 million to spend to reach the CAP FLOOR.  All of those contracts are up next year....Even Revis with a hit.  Some of those contracts are already gone with NO dead money.  You do not rebuild in 2 year when you have drafted poorly for 6 years.  This isn't Madden.

BS. We've used up our entire cap over the past 4 years AND borrowed future cap dollar by renegotiating several deals, plus the 2 yr deal for Fitz. I haven't done the math, but common sense tells me, unless we had $60mil in cap space, we met the cap floor by a massive margin. Having said that, since we have about 2mil in cap space, I wouldn't be shocked if our cash spending is at around 102-103%. Mind blown right?

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, CanadaSteve said:

They are Beer, and they always were.  We were all fooled by the Kool-Aid called the 2015 season and the 'rebirth' of Ryan Fitzpatrick.  This is the team we should have had last year. 

To the above bolded statement I'd just say this: nope to both notions. 

Also a rebuilding team can spend on expensive players but it generally limits that to players who will be here by the time the rebuild has taken foot. Spending big $ and/or draft picks on expensive veterans past their prime means they were spending to win now. And they did so in March-Aprils with the idea they'd be making a Super Bowl run with Geno (2015) and Fitz (2016) as the presumptive starting QBs. 

[UnitedWhofans]

8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

To the above bolded statement I'd just say this: nope to both notions. 

Also a rebuilding team can spend on expensive players but it generally limits that to players who will be here by the time the rebuild has taken foot. Spending big $ and/or draft picks on expensive veterans past their prime means they were spending to win now. And they did so in March-Aprils with the idea they'd be making a Super Bowl run with Geno (2015) and Fitz (2016) as the presumptive starting QBs. 

I think the Jets had to sign Fitzpatrick because the backlash would have been massive. Media wanted them to do it, fans wanted them to do it.

We have to accept that Woody does listen to the fans. It is a fault, but unless he sells, it's one that needs to be lived with.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I think the Jets had to sign Fitzpatrick because the backlash would have been massive. Media wanted them to do it, fans wanted them to do it.

We have to accept that Woody does listen to the fans. It is a fault, but unless he sells, it's one that needs to be lived with.

They didn't "have to" at all. He made the bed they're laying in, and Fitz was hardly the only older veteran starter added.

The GM that knows better doesn't saddle his team with a bad QB if he truly believes the QB to be bad. Given the results of this and his other QB judgments so far, I'd say he's getting a benefit of the doubt he hasn't earned simply because Bowles is also clearly in over his head. 

What sucks about it is this was actually a great opportunity for a young QB: as good a receiving corps as there is in the league, two good backs who also are both elite pass catchers and blitz-blockers. No they don't have a TE by position name, but it's just a name as Enunwa is capable of a TE role but can line up anywhere so he's quite the presnap mismatch. And for all the criticism at Gailey - and he's certainly not perfect - a young QB could have a worse OC. And it's wasted so the alleged "best chance" QB can piss away endless live and practice reps. 

[UnitedWhofans]

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

They didn't "have to" at all. He made the bed they're laying in, and Fitz was hardly the only older veteran starter added.

The GM that knows better doesn't saddle his team with a bad QB if he truly believes the QB to be bad. Given the results of this and his other QB judgments so far, I'd say he's getting a benefit of the doubt he hasn't earned simply because Bowles is also clearly in over his head. 

What sucks about it is this was actually a great opportunity for a young QB: as good a receiving corps as there is in the league, two good backs who also are both elite pass catchers and blitz-blockers. No they don't have a TE by position name, but it's just a name as Enunwa is capable of a TE role but can line up anywhere so he's quite the presnap mismatch. And for all the criticism at Gailey - and he's certainly not perfect - a young QB could have a worse OC. And it's wasted so the alleged "best chance" QB can piss away endless live and practice reps. 

Ryan Fitzpatrick goes out and has the best Season for a Jets QB. 

The Jets don't sign him.

Fans scream SOJ! SOJ!

Media KILLS Maccagnan.

Dont be naive about it. This is what was going to happen.

And right now, Maccagnan is not getting killed for it. Most media is goon after the coach

 

[The Crusher]

2 hours ago, dbatesman said:

Our QB1, WR1, WR2, LT, RB1, C, TE1, CB1, and ILB are all over 30, but yeah, totes rebuilding

So what your saying is we are picking a CB and ILB in the first and second round next year?  

[phill1c]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

Ryan Fitzpatrick goes out and has the best Season for a Jets QB. 

The Jets don't sign him.

Fans scream SOJ! SOJ!

Media KILLS Maccagnan.

 

Glad you have all your hypotheticals in line.

But, at the end of the day, it's SPECULATION.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, phill1c said:

Glad you have all your hypotheticals in line.

But, at the end of the day, it's SPECULATION.

Speculation rooted in psychology and articles read at the time. Mehta was going off on him for not signing him. Cimini still doesn't believe Fitz should be benched.

Even after yesterday.

And as for the fans, I mean, that's easy

[phill1c]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

Speculation rooted in psychology and articles read at the time. Mehta was going off on him for not signing him. Cimini still doesn't believe Fitz should be benched.

Even after yesterday.

And as for the fans, I mean, that's easy

Ok, but no matter how many paragraphs you type it's SPECULATION and not really worth anything.

[cant wait]

45 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Who, exactly, are we building around?

Leonard Williams, Quincy Enunwa, and Mohammed Wilkerson?

Anyone else?

The problem is that years of poor drafting have left this team with mostly aging veterans and unproven young players, the team needs to add depth at every position that's not DL 

[Sperm Edwards]

20 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Ryan Fitzpatrick goes out and has the best Season for a Jets QB. 

The Jets don't sign him.

Fans scream SOJ! SOJ!

Media KILLS Maccagnan.

Dont be naive about it. This is what was going to happen.

And right now, Maccagnan is not getting killed for it. Most media is goon after the coach

 

That doesn't make it a smart move for the team. It was a CYA move for the GM. I've said so many times so whatever with your "naive" comment. But the team suffers, and the amount paid influences not just him starting but for how long he starts before getting the hook. Even more so in light of a HC who doesn't take his favorites off the field unless forced to do so. 

[jeremy2020]

So Jets get a...what six year pass for Bowles and  Maccagnan (if you're going to praise him as a genius re-builder, at least spell his name correctly because "Rebuilding". Right. 

 

It's amusing how the narrative has changed since before they started playing games. None of the folks talking re-build were saying that after the Bills game.

[UnitedWhofans]

1 hour ago, phill1c said:

Ok, but no matter how many paragraphs you type it's SPECULATION and not really worth anything.

Everything is speculation

[UnitedWhofans]

18 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

So Jets get a...what six year pass for Bowles and  Maccagnan (if you're going to praise him as a genius re-builder, at least spell his name correctly because "Rebuilding". Right. 

 

It's amusing how the narrative has changed since before they started playing games. None of the folks talking re-build were saying that after the Bills game.

I was saying rebuild disguised as a win now team ALL OFFSEASON. Ask the others.