Petty "close" to returning, per Bowles

[kdels62]

7 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Did everyone else watch Petty in preseason? He did not look ready for primetime.....calm down, I personally think hes a bust.

I think the vast majority of Jet fans feel opposite of this. He was the best qb through 2 preseasons now. 

[Integrity28]

2 hours ago, kdels62 said:

FWIW my dad who is about as casual a Jet fan as possible said to me, "they're just waiting for that young guy to get healthy," referring to Petty since my dad doesn't know his name. 

If my dad sees it then it must be more obvious than we think.

I agree with your Dad, fwiw. 

I think the harder you stare at a problem, the harder the problem is to see... which is sometimes the case for die-hard fans, and even coaches, but having some space from it makes the vantage point a bit more clear.

[CrazyCarl40]

13 minutes ago, j4jets said:

Yeah, you still don't have any idea what you're talking about. BTW, the bonus goes to me cuz it proves your point of allocating not more than "$33mil" towards the secondary wrong.

Bowles also said he hasn't lost any trust in Fitz. I'd take that with a grain of salt. 

I hate to sound like a broken record, but the numbers back my opinion and not yours. I don't know what the bold is in reference to, but between the entire secondary and dead money, it's well over 35 million which is about 23 percent of the cap. You wanted to add another 8 million to that, which would make it 27 percent of the cap. One third of just the defense making over 25% of the money and still being amongst the worst in the league is not fiscally sound. No matter how you cut it.

[Integrity28]

13 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Did everyone else watch Petty in preseason? He did not look ready for primetime.....calm down, I personally think hes a bust.

Yes, went through his progressions, had great arm talent, threw his receivers open, led them, hit them in stride, and threw the ball away when he had to. He didn't hold on too long, and climbed the pocket well when he had time. The only time he looked bad was when the OL was blown up, and he had nowhere to scramble to. Otherwise, he looked as competent as Dak Prescott did in preseason, and we've all seen how that has gone for Dallas.

 

9 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

He looked pretty good for a 2nd year 4th rounder.  And any 4th rounder that does not make it in this league in any position I do not classify as a bust. 

Exactly, you can't draft a bust in the 4th round. 

 

5 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

I think the vast majority of Jet fans feel opposite of this. He was the best qb through 2 preseasons now. 

He was in this preseason for sure. I don't recollect last years...

[RutgersJetFan]

Talkin' about this guy like Luke's about to come back at the beginning of Jedi. It's the Jets. We drafted Porkins and you know it.

[j4jets]

2 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

I hate to sound like a broken record, but the numbers back my opinion and not yours. I don't know what the bold is in reference to, but between the entire secondary and dead money, it's well over 35 million which is about 23 percent of the cap. You wanted to add another 8 million to that, which would make it 27 percent of the cap. One third of just the defense making over 25% of the money and still being amongst the worst in the league is not fiscally sound. No matter how you cut it.

So you're saying we have a need? Or perhaps is the coaching then? Either way you wanna slice this, my point doesn't change. Signing someone based on need, not based on how much money that unit is making as a whole. How much was spent in that same exact unit in 2015? My guess is you'll find that $8mil we are talking about in there somewhere. 

[j4jets]

14 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

I think the vast majority of Jet fans feel opposite of this. He was the best qb through 2 preseasons now. 

lol against Obamacare agents. Can't stress that enough. I hope he plays the same or better in the NFL as well though. 

[dbatesman]

7 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Talkin' about this guy like Luke's about to come back at the beginning of Jedi. It's the Jets. We drafted Porkins and you know it.

It's pretty funny watching people hope and pray on a guy who can't beat out a guy who can't beat out a guy who's thrown 10 interceptions in four games.

[RutgersJetFan]

1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

It's pretty funny watching people hope and pray on a guy who can't beat out a guy who can't beat out a guy who's thrown 10 interceptions in four games.

To be fair I think some of these posts were copied and pasted from old Erik Ainge threads.

[kdels62]

10 minutes ago, j4jets said:

lol against Obamacare agents. Can't stress that enough. I hope he plays the same or better in the NFL as well though. 

He played well against his competition. That's all he can do. The same can't be said for Geno or Hack or Fitz. 

[CrazyCarl40]

8 minutes ago, j4jets said:

So you're saying we have a need? Or perhaps is the coaching then? Either way you wanna slice this, my point doesn't change. Signing someone based on need, not based on how much money that unit is making as a whole. How much was spent in that same exact unit in 2015? My guess is you'll find that $8mil we are talking about in there somewhere. 

Sure, they paid Cro 8 million last year, but that money was already spent without replacing him. Revis' cap number from 2015 to 2016 jumped 1 million. Skrine's was slated to jump nearly 5. Gilchrist jumped 2.5 million. Milliner jumped 1 million. Pryor jumped .5 million. Even with losing 8 million from Cromartie, the other Jets DBs salary jumps was greater than that. So, the DBs are being paid basically the same with Burris replacing Cro. You'd still have to add on an additional 8 million (your number) on an imaginary #2 CB that was available this offseason when they already are paying Skrine like a #2 CB and have 23% of the cap into the secondary as it is.

[j4jets]

2 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

He played well against his competition. That's all he can do. The same can't be said for Geno or Hack or Fitz. 

Keyword: Competition.

[Sperm Edwards]

10 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Yes, went through his progressions, had great arm talent, threw his receivers open, led them, hit them in stride, and threw the ball away when he had to. He didn't hold on too long, and climbed the pocket well when he had time. The only time he looked bad was when the OL was blown up, and he had nowhere to scramble to. Otherwise, he looked as competent as Dak Prescott did in preseason, and we've all seen how that has gone for Dallas.

There's a difference between ready enough to be on the field and go through his next growing pains there, and ready enough that the growing pains are over and done with (at which point they're mistakes but not due to inexperience).

I understand the fear of some to not "ruin" a QB, but I would only have that concern if the QB is completely clueless, like Petty was last year, Hackenberg this year, or frankly Geno in 2013. The thing is he's not going to become a finished product by holding a clipboard. There are some growing pains and learning experiences that have to take place on the field, and the longer we delay the start the longer we prolong the completion of the process. 

Petty should have been the #2 QB entering week 1. Yes, the PS play you recall above was against backup talent, but he looked the part enough to not worry about his curling up into fetal position on the field if Fitz got injured in the first half of the Bengals game. The fear of reprisal in putting Geno on the field, when Fitz should have obviously been pulled, means Bowles must either have the stones to ignore the chatter no matter what Geno does out there (good or bad), or don't keep Geno as the #2 QB in the first place. Only makes it worse that Petty got injured as an indirect result of this poor choice in pecking order.

[Big Blocker]

7 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

He played well against his competition. That's all he can do. The same can't be said for Geno or Hack or Fitz. 

People who don't get that QB's playing against the other team's second and third stringers are also playing with THEIR team's second and third stringers make me question how much they know about football.  Meaning not very much.

[Big Blocker]

8 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Sure, they paid Cro 8 million last year, but that money was already spent without replacing him. Revis' cap number from 2015 to 2016 jumped 1 million. Skrine's was slated to jump nearly 5. Gilchrist jumped 2.5 million. Milliner jumped 1 million. Pryor jumped .5 million. Even with losing 8 million from Cromartie, the other Jets DBs salary jumps was greater than that. So, the DBs are being paid basically the same with Burris replacing Cro. You'd still have to add on an additional 8 million (your number) on an imaginary #2 CB that was available this offseason when they already are paying Skrine like a #2 CB and have 23% of the cap into the secondary as it is.

I think you've made your point just fine.  Can't help it if others just won't concede the obvious.

[Big Blocker]

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

There's a difference between ready enough to be on the field and go through his next growing pains there, and ready enough that the growing pains are over and done with (at which point they're mistakes but not due to inexperience).

I understand the fear of some to not "ruin" a QB, but I would only have that concern if the QB is completely clueless, like Petty was last year, Hackenberg this year, or frankly Geno in 2013. The thing is he's not going to become a finished product by holding a clipboard. There are some growing pains and learning experiences that have to take place on the field, and the longer we delay the start the longer we prolong the completion of the process. 

Petty should have been the #2 QB entering week 1. Yes, the PS play you recall above was against backup talent, but he looked the part enough to not worry about his curling up into fetal position on the field if Fitz got injured in the first half of the Bengals game. The fear of reprisal in putting Geno on the field, when Fitz should have obviously been pulled, means Bowles must either have the stones to ignore the chatter no matter what Geno does out there (good or bad), or don't keep Geno as the #2 QB in the first place. Only makes it worse that Petty got injured as an indirect result of this poor choice in pecking order.

Excellent post, and I merely add I think that might have happened if Petty had not gotten hurt.  We'll see what happens when he is healthy.

[Beerfish]

Imo you find out very quickly if you have something in this league at the QB position.  A guy will not be mistake free but he will show you enough of the right stuff or he won;t very early on.

The fact that Dak Prescott and Wentz look great and other guys like Kessler, Lynch, Brissett have at least looked passable should give the Jets no pause for going with Petty if fitz keeps playing like a scrub.

 

[Mecca]

It aches my stomach to say this, but I feel like Mac hasn't pushed Petty or Geno on Bowles yet because he invested 12 million into him and doesn't want to look like an idiot in October.

[bostonmajet]

10 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

People who don't get that QB's playing against the other team's second and third stringers are also playing with THEIR team's second and third stringers make me question how much they know about football.  Meaning not very much.

Of course you have to remember that our 2-3 string OL was significantly worse than the opposing 2-3 string defenses - we have NO depth at OL. And our #1 TEs were not much better than our 2-3 TEs (as they all sucked). But yes, they were playing with 2-3 string WRs and RBs.

[phill1c]

16 minutes ago, Mecca said:

It aches my stomach to say this, but I feel like Mac hasn't pushed Petty or Geno on Bowles yet because he invested 12 million into him and doesn't want to look like an idiot in October.

Fitzpatrick would need to substantially improve for him to look like an idiot. Right now he looks like a fool and his money, Sonny.

[jamesr]

28 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

People who don't get that QB's playing against the other team's second and third stringers are also playing with THEIR team's second and third stringers make me question how much they know about football.  Meaning not very much.

In Petty's case, the guys he was throwing to in preseason are on the field now, rather than flipping burgers - Peake, Anderson, J Marshall (when healthy again). So he has some familiarity there (which our own #1 QB admitted NOT having this week ...). Plus our TE addition is new to everyone, so no real advantage there for the incumbent.

Yes, opposing front sevens will be much tougher, but he'd also have our starting O line rather than a bunch of guys who are now flipping burgers. The main difference will be the coverages being a lot tighter than pre-season. Hopefully if they do put him in they do their best to scheme some more simple plays for him, and also let him take some deep shots to keep the defense from loading up to stop the run.

(Mmmmmm ... burgers! ). 

 

[drdetroit]

After the steelers put up a 45-Burger on our defense and Fitz lays another Chad is like to see Geno

[Smashmouth]

First of all no one is going to look like an idiot because just about every media outlet said the Jets needed to get Fitz signed and they did.

If Petty is making strides and Fitz keeps going down hill then its time to put Petty in to see what he's made of . We already know Geno and we already know Fitz we can't go through this entire season with sub par QB play and have a losing record with out getting a good sample size of Petty that would be mind numbingly stupid if we do. Now if Fitz and the offense get on a roll and back into the playoff hunt then that's a different story.

[Big Blocker]

16 hours ago, jamesr said:

In Petty's case, the guys he was throwing to in preseason are on the field now, rather than flipping burgers - Peake, Anderson, J Marshall (when healthy again). So he has some familiarity there (which our own #1 QB admitted NOT having this week ...). Plus our TE addition is new to everyone, so no real advantage there for the incumbent.

Yes, opposing front sevens will be much tougher, but he'd also have our starting O line rather than a bunch of guys who are now flipping burgers. The main difference will be the coverages being a lot tighter than pre-season. Hopefully if they do put him in they do their best to scheme some more simple plays for him, and also let him take some deep shots to keep the defense from loading up to stop the run.

(Mmmmmm ... burgers! ). 

 

You cherry pick by focusing only on the receivers.  The Jets do not have a first string TE on the roster even now, and what RB's did Petty play with?  And as mentioned above the Jet bench for OL is particularly weak.

THe main point remains.  It is an unbalanced and inaccurate picture to say someone like Petty was playing against scrubs without acknowledging who he was playing WITH.

[JohnnyLV]

20 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

The Jets not only don't have Geno signed for next season they don't have Fitz signed either. And that's a good thing. We could have two completely new Qbs next season as starter and backup and not necessarily Petty and Hack. The 12 mil for Fitz was a good deal for the Jets because they have no financial committment to him if he gets injured or plays poorly. It's not big money for a Qb starter after a good season. Most starting Qbs are on multi year deals with a lot of guaranteed money. Right now basically you wouldn't want Fitz back but this could change. But I doubt if he plays well the rest of the way Mac would re-sign him for more than one season. 

On no possible level was it a good deal. It was a horrible move that has set back the franchise. Again. 

[Rangers9]

8 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

On no possible level was it a good deal. It was a horrible move that has set back the franchise. Again. 

Look you couldn't sign Fitz for under that amount of money. He would have walked and they wanted him back. The deal the Jets had on the table all that time was a 3=24 with about 15 guaranteed. So by giving him the one year deal they saved 3 mil. If he does turn it around and they want him back then they could probably do another one year contract maybe for the same amount. Right now in terms of Qb it looks like they will go in another direction. 

[JohnnyLV]

3 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Look you couldn't sign Fitz for under that amount of money. He would have walked and they wanted him back. The deal the Jets had on the table all that time was a 3=24 with about 15 guaranteed. So by giving him the one year deal they saved 3 mil. If he does turn it around and they want him back then they could probably do another one year contract maybe for the same amount. Right now in terms of Qb it looks like they will go in another direction. 

You completely miss the point. In no circumstance did it make sense to re-sign Fitz. This result was incredibly predictable. For some reason, Todd Bowles and much of the Jrts fan base wants to completely ignore history when it comes to Fitz. He is a terrible QB. He was actually terrible last year but super sized receivers caught a lot of his bad passes and he played the easiest schedule of all time. Signing Fitz was a horrible franchise wrecking move and this result was VERY predictable. Regardless of the small success he had, Geno should have started last year the minute he was healthy. We would have some clarity at the QB position right now. But Bowles wants to attach his flag to Fitz in a misguided attempt to "win now". Problem is that he is likely playing the worst and most team limiting QB on the roster.

[CrazyCarl40]

22 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

On no possible level was it a good deal. It was a horrible move that has set back the franchise. Again. 

How has it set the franchise back? They have two young QBs on the roster. Say what you want about Hack, but the Fitz situation didn't prevent the Jets from taking the QB they wanted who they think is the future. It's a one year deal and it hasn't altered the course of anything. They will still have a chance at some point this season to take a good look at Petty.

[Rangers9]

3 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

You completely miss the point. In no circumstance did it make sense to re-sign Fitz. This result was incredibly predictable. For some reason, Todd Bowles and much of the Jrts fan base wants to completely ignore history when it comes to Fitz. He is a terrible QB. He was actually terrible last year but super sized receivers caught a lot of his bad passes and he played the easiest schedule of all time. Signing Fitz was a horrible franchise wrecking move and this result was VERY predictable. Regardless of the small success he had, Geno should have started last year the minute he was healthy. We would have some clarity at the QB position right now. But Bowles wants to attach his flag to Fitz in a misguided attempt to "win now". Problem is that he is likely playing the worst and most team limiting QB on the roster.

Look right now he is looking like the Qb you say he was. But for only one game really and it's obvious he needs a team that plays well behind him. And the Jets aren't that. He played well enough to get that 12 mil contract last year but that is low money for a Qb. You don't sign starters for 4 or 5 million. There were a few teams that had Qbs that are starting in that low ball category. Like RG3 who signed with Cleveland after a couple of bad seasons and getting cut. To me you need more than a few games to make a final decision on him. Two weeks ago he had a great game and led us from behind several times to win that game. Russell Wilson had a good game but look at the performances he had from his teammates. His receivers made great catches while Jets receivers didn't. He had no effective running game and the defense played poorly. If the team had played well it would have been a much closer game. That game was not on him but his first pick was the key negative play of the game against the Jets. 

[August]

3 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Look right now he is looking like the Qb you say he was. But for only one game really and it's obvious he needs a team that plays well behind him. And the Jets aren't that. He played well enough to get that 12 mil contract last year but that is low money for a Qb. You don't sign starters for 4 or 5 million. There were a few teams that had Qbs that are starting in that low ball category. Like RG3 who signed with Cleveland after a couple of bad seasons and getting cut. To me you need more than a few games to make a final decision on him. Two weeks ago he had a great game and led us from behind several times to win that game. Russell Wilson had a good game but look at the performances he had from his teammates. His receivers made great catches while Jets receivers didn't. He had no effective running game and the defense played poorly. If the team had played well it would have been a much closer game. That game was not on him but his first pick was the key negative play of the game against the Jets. 

No excuses his biggest supporters from the media and the fanbase kept harping on how the Jets NEED Fitzpatrick; and how the Jets would be bad without him. So since according to his supporters he was the difference between winning and losing then I don't want to read excuses. 

The defense has its own issues but with that said they arent that bad. The defense played decent enough despite its flaws for this team to win. The number 1 problem on this team is the offense and their lack of scoring. 

 

[JohnnyLV]

How has it set the franchise back? They have two young QBs on the roster. Say what you want about Hack, but the Fitz situation didn't prevent the Jets from taking the QB they wanted who they think is the future. It's a one year deal and it hasn't altered the course of anything. They will still have a chance at some point this season to take a good look at Petty.

It set the Jets back by once again not getting clarity on what the young QBS can do

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[CrazyCarl40]

8 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

It set the Jets back by once again not getting clarity on what the young QBS can do

Petty is hurt. That has nothing to do with the Fitz re-signing. Hack is not ready/bad. That has nothing to do with the Fitz re-signing. I'm not sure what clarity you'd get by playing either one of them right now.

[Rangers9]

21 minutes ago, August said:

No excuses his biggest supporters from the media and the fanbase kept harping on how the Jets NEED Fitzpatrick; and how the Jets would be bad without him. So since according to his supporters he was the difference between winning and losing then I don't want to read excuses. 

The defense has its own issues but with that said they arent that bad. The defense played decent enough despite its flaws for this team to win. The number 1 problem on this team is the offense and their lack of scoring. 

 

You have to have a good team to beat good teams. Look if Fitz was on the Seahawks on Sunday and Wilson on the Jets who would have won the game. What he's guilty of was being only a fair Qb when we needed a very good Qb. He did not like against Buff take us over the top. But when your defense can't cover and gives up big plays consistently that's not his fault. And his receivers did not make great catches (except maybe Marshall on one play) and the Seahawks receivers did. Jets receivers dropped balls they could have caught for potentially big plays. Let's see how things go on Sunday. None of us are optimistic. 

[bostonmajet]

16 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

It set the Jets back by once again not getting clarity on what the young QBS can do

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Fitz and Geno will be gone next year, and Hack will have one year and Petty will have two years of experience. They will be competing (with probably another QB or 2) for the starting and backup jobs. You will get your clarity at the end of TC next year.

In the meantime, if the Jets don't win 2 or the next 3 games, you are likely going to get some of that clarity sooner than that.

[Lupz27]

I still just don't get how some didn't see that the Jets as an organization just were not going anywhere with Fitzpatrick at QB to start the season, and even more so now in season, it's a shame Petty is hurt.