TuscanyTile2 Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 Basically the Browns are the litmus test. If they succeed then others will follow their approach. Do we want money ball in the NFL? To me it seems kinda soulless. But it's probably going to be the way of the future regardless. But if you're looking for an excuse to root against the Browns , there it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangerous Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 imo it's tough to say. the nfl is too much of a team sport compared to baseball for sabermetrics to work well. i do think some elements can be applied (and probaby are) with regard to the relative worth of drafting positions as much as drafting players. by this i mean you don't draft an offensive guard with the first pick but maybe down at 25-32 and certainly in later rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 I'll be damned if a bunch of calculator-humpers ruin football the way they ruined baseball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted April 27, 2017 Author Share Posted April 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, dbatesman said: I'll be damned if a bunch of calculator-humpers ruin football the way they ruined baseball Then you'd better root against the Browns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nico002 Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 Pats are the NFL money ball team- works for them. But... like the NBA you need stars at certain positions to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 33 minutes ago, dbatesman said: I'll be damned if a bunch of calculator-humpers ruin football the way they ruined baseball Not entirely off-topic, but did you read The Undoing Project? Just finished it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adb280z Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 I'll be damned if a bunch of calculator-humpers ruin football the way they ruined baseball Baseball isn't ruined. Moneyball has existed in the nfl as long as the salary cap.Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetster Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 6 minutes ago, nico002 said: Pats are the NFL money ball team- works for them. But... like the NBA you need stars at certain positions to succeed. Pats could never succeed doing the things they do without Tom Brady at QB. He takes less money than the top QBs, but might be the best QB in the history of the game! His best games have come in some of the worst weather conditions. He elevates his game to incredible levels in big games & drives. Even in his 2 losses to the Giants he got the Patriots the lead that their defense couldn't hold. You have to take everything the Pats do with a grain of salt because Brady is not only a leader, he's an additional head coach on the field who demands excellence from everyone and if you don't know what your role is, miss blocks, or drop passes, Brady relates that frustration to Belichick & your either cut or traded & someone takes your place. Brady has the pelts so when you f*ck up, he'll call you out on the field or the sideline, we've all seen it. Brady does not accept mistakes. How many teams have that type of leader who's been in the same system with the same coach for going on 17 years? The Pats situation is an anomaly in todays NFL, probably never to happen again once Brady & Belichick call it a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted April 27, 2017 Author Share Posted April 27, 2017 5 minutes ago, Jetster said: Pats could never succeed doing the things they do without Tom Brady at QB. He takes less money than the top QBs, but might be the best QB in the history of the game! His best games have come in some of the worst weather conditions. He elevates his game to incredible levels in big games & drives. Even in his 2 losses to the Giants he got the Patriots the lead that their defense couldn't hold. You have to take everything the Pats do with a grain of salt because Brady is not only a leader, he's an additional head coach on the field who demands excellence from everyone and if you don't know what your role is, miss blocks, or drop passes, Brady relates that frustration to Belichick & your either cut or traded & someone takes your place. Brady has the pelts so when you f*ck up, he'll call you out on the field or the sideline, we've all seen it. Brady does not accept mistakes. How many teams have that type of leader who's been in the same system with the same coach for going on 17 years? The Pats situation is an anomaly in todays NFL, probably never to happen again once Brady & Belichick call it a day. Cough *deflated footballs* cough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdels62 Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 52 minutes ago, nico002 said: Pats are the NFL money ball team- works for them. But... like the NBA you need stars at certain positions to succeed. Basically this. It also applies to the Steelers. Get rid of overpriced established guys and trust your process to identify cheap young guys, acquire specific role playing cheap veterans, rinse and repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 10 minutes ago, kdels62 said: Basically this. It also applies to the Steelers. Get rid of overpriced established guys and trust your process to identify cheap young guys, acquire specific role playing cheap veterans, rinse and repeat. **** math. Don't the Steelers have like five offensive players making over $10M? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southparkcpa Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said: Basically the Browns are the litmus test. If they succeed then others will follow their approach. Do we want money ball in the NFL? To me it seems kinda soulless. But it's probably going to be the way of the future regardless. But if you're looking for an excuse to root against the Browns , there it is! Its time. Look at the last few Qbs drafted in rounds 1-3. What percentage have panned out? Yet Brady and Wilson are top QB's in the league. These GMs aren't as smart as we think. Was listening to a report about how a guy will impress at the combine and move up the board. yet on the field he was average. If we use a metric to analyze real on the field effort, it would have been clear that Brady was a top pick as was Russel Wilson. Yet we continue to look for the 6-4 big arm guy. Hows that worked out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 12 minutes ago, southparkcpa said: Its time. Look at the last few Qbs drafted in rounds 1-3. What percentage have panned out? Yet Brady and Wilson are top QB's in the league. These GMs aren't as smart as we think. Was listening to a report about how a guy will impress at the combine and move up the board. yet on the field he was average. If we use a metric to analyze real on the field effort, it would have been clear that Brady was a top pick as was Russel Wilson. Yet we continue to look for the 6-4 big arm guy. Hows that worked out? Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCJet Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 What exactly is moneyball in your statement? Gathering multiple picks to increase your chances on hitting on productive NFL players -thats been done by successful teams (Dallas - JJ era, Pats and Baltimore) for years. Do you mean taking on salary in exchange for draft picks -again thats smart, the reason it hasnt been done is NFL teams are reluctant to alienate their fan base by "tanking". Its not a question of GMs being smart or not, if there was a formula to finding successful players at any position, everyone would know and use the formula. Drafting isnt like that which is why the more picks you have the more you appear successful since people remember the good picks you have and the busts dont hurt your team as much. Its just math, not money ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southparkcpa Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 Just now, #27TheDominator said: Why? Im not sure why Brady was pushed to 6th round... BUT read about his performance as a senior. Especially in the Cotton Bowl. Today he would be a 1st rounder based on his senior year alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 It's really just assigning value to positions and giving yourself better odds with more picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, southparkcpa said: Im not sure why Brady was pushed to 6th round... BUT read about his performance as a senior. Especially in the Cotton Bowl. Today he would be a 1st rounder based on his senior year alone. 61% 2217 yards 16/6 No big deal. Trubisky threw as many TDs in his senior year as Brady did his entire college career and he only threw one more INT his last year. 68% 3748 30/7 Brady's senior year was no big deal and his junior year was moderately lame. How about these numbers? 67.8% 2895 21/55 Look at those numbers! That guy must be good. But the scouts, and most of us, looked at his build and throwing motion and most knew he wouldn't succeed at QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 7 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: 61% 2217 yards 16/6 No big deal. Trubisky threw as many TDs in his senior year as Brady did his entire college career and he only threw one more INT his last year. 68% 3748 30/7 Brady's senior year was no big deal and his junior year was moderately lame. How about these numbers? 67.8% 2895 21/55 Look at those numbers! That guy must be good. But the scouts, and most of us, looked at his build and throwing motion and most knew he wouldn't succeed at QB. Plus the cheating and addiction to dicks knocked him down at least 3-4 rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peebag Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Jetster said: Pats could never succeed doing the things they do without Tom Brady at QB. He takes less money than the top QBs, but might be the best QB in the history of the game! If you believe that, I've got some swamp land for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 1 hour ago, gEYno said: Not entirely off-topic, but did you read The Undoing Project? Just finished it. I haven't--worth reading? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetster Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 22 minutes ago, peebag said: If you believe that, I've got some swamp land for sale. 22 minutes ago, peebag said: If you believe that, I've got some swamp land for sale. Fact! Tom Brady has never been paid in any year as high a salary as Drew Brees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peebag Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 1 minute ago, Jetster said: Fact! Tom Brady has never been paid in any year as high a salary as Drew Brees. dude - he's getting paid under the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southparkcpa Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said: 61% 2217 yards 16/6 No big deal. Trubisky threw as many TDs in his senior year as Brady did his entire college career and he only threw one more INT his last year. 68% 3748 30/7 Brady's senior year was no big deal and his junior year was moderately lame. How about these numbers? 67.8% 2895 21/55 Look at those numbers! That guy must be good. But the scouts, and most of us, looked at his build and throwing motion and most knew he wouldn't succeed at QB. His cotton bowl performance would today warrant a strong look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 39 minutes ago, dbatesman said: I haven't--worth reading? I thought so. I was familiar with a lot of the concepts, as you'd expect, but it does a nice job of explaining the ways in which humans, and even "experts" are terrible decision makers and how this thinking found it's way into economics -- interwoven with the narrative of the two psychologists who developed the theories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 2 hours ago, southparkcpa said: His cotton bowl performance would today warrant a strong look. Tom Brady never played in the Cotton Bowl. I assume you meant the Orange Bowl. It is fine to say that would have warranted a look, but acting like Tom Brady was somebody that the system missed out on because they didn't look at performance is ridiculous. He performed basically the same as Henson and Griese. System QB. Brady went late because he was a part time starter without big numbers and physically he looked like a 12 year old with cement boots. Griese went in the 3rd and he put up similar numbers while going undefeated and winning Rose Bowl MVP and a national title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 3 hours ago, gEYno said: I thought so. I was familiar with a lot of the concepts, as you'd expect, but it does a nice job of explaining the ways in which humans, and even "experts" are terrible decision makers and how this thinking found it's way into economics -- interwoven with the narrative of the two psychologists who developed the theories. Nice--I'll have to give it a look. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snell41 Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 Pats are the NFL money ball team- works for them. But... like the NBA you need stars at certain positions to succeed. And in the NFL, you need a QB. If you have a QB you can moneyball the sh*t out of every other position.Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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