Cimini: Will Jets' complex offense slow Christian Hackenberg's progress?

[CanadienJetsFan]

16 hours ago, johnnysd said:

The hatred of Hack is bewildering especially since so many loved Fitzshiitrick who was the worst QB in the NFL, but all of his mistakes were somehow OK.

This is a complete crap article.

First, of all NO ONE has suggested that Hack is struggling learning the offense or learning the verbiage. Wanting to practice it is NOT the same as not being able to understand it.

Second of all Cimini intentionally cherry picked the analyst that would back up his basesless conjecture. Miller is a weenie, and his QB opinions are completely influenced by all his own experience as a QB. He ALWAYS wants the veteran QB to play. If he were a HC, he would be Bowles on steroids. Second he is just assuming that Hack is struggling and somehow will "learn" from McClown holding a clipboard.

It is nonsense. In the real world, we consistently hear that Hack is an intellectual QB.

Hack WILL struggle with reads because of the complexity, but you know what fixes that? Reps and game experience. Not sitting on the sidelines watching a TERRIBLE journeyman QB. Why doesnt anyone mention that McClown pretty much sucks? And unlike Hack he has an established record of sucking moose cock as a starting QB

This is just an alarmist BS article with no basis in facts or you know journalism on any level. But it's great clickbait for the Hack hating trolls to slither out of their hiding spots like irradiated roaches and be their nauseating annoying selves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cimini is the worst....maybe Manish is one notch below him if that's even humanly possible.  Why anyone reads their trash is beyond me.

[jetspenguin]

The hatred of Hack is bewildering especially since so many loved Fitzshiitrick who was the worst QB in the NFL, but all of his mistakes were somehow OK.
This is a complete crap article.
First, of all NO ONE has suggested that Hack is struggling learning the offense or learning the verbiage. Wanting to practice it is NOT the same as not being able to understand it.
Second of all Cimini intentionally cherry picked the analyst that would back up his basesless conjecture. Miller is a weenie, and his QB opinions are completely influenced by all his own experience as a QB. He ALWAYS wants the veteran QB to play. If he were a HC, he would be Bowles on steroids. Second he is just assuming that Hack is struggling and somehow will "learn" from McClown holding a clipboard.
It is nonsense. In the real world, we consistently hear that Hack is an intellectual QB.
Hack WILL struggle with reads because of the complexity, but you know what fixes that? Reps and game experience. Not sitting on the sidelines watching a TERRIBLE journeyman QB. Why doesnt anyone mention that McClown pretty much sucks? And unlike Hack he has an established record of sucking moose cock as a starting QB
This is just an alarmist BS article with no basis in facts or you know journalism on any level. But it's great clickbait for the Hack hating trolls to slither out of their hiding spots like irradiated roaches and be their nauseating annoying selves.
 
 
 
 
 
 

I......I.....

I think I love you

Sent From My Perch Above the SOJF's

[jetspenguin]

I don't know about this Morton guy.  The dude is screaming at the top of his lungs all training camp.  He uses complex play calling on a young team.  He regularly be-rates players.  This is not something you see with some of the more successful organizations these days, it points more to dysfunction. 

Hmmmm.....now I have been questioning Morton for the last few weeks and people are acting like I'm cray cray....we will see. I hope I'm wrong.

Sent From My Perch Above the SOJF's

[T0mShane]

35 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Alternatively, maybe Hackenberg just isn't good at football?

what no

[C Mart]

7 hours ago, Jetster said:

Oh, Bowles had plenty of excuses for the defense last year. Guys aren't "getting it"...what? How long does it take for the players to get it? Maybe Todd just can't teach it properly. He also had many, many. boneheaded decisions over the last 2 years.

Todd should be very hard on his own self evaluation.

Psst. Maybe that's why the DL, OLB & DB coaches were all fired. Mo & Leo have already said they are doing more technique work this yr and attention to detail is being stressed by the new DL coach Nunn. 

[C Mart]

8 hours ago, johnnysd said:

The hatred of Hack is bewildering especially since so many loved Fitzshiitrick who was the worst QB in the NFL, but all of his mistakes were somehow OK.

This is a complete crap article.

First, of all NO ONE has suggested that Hack is struggling learning the offense or learning the verbiage. Wanting to practice it is NOT the same as not being able to understand it.

Second of all Cimini intentionally cherry picked the analyst that would back up his basesless conjecture. Miller is a weenie, and his QB opinions are completely influenced by all his own experience as a QB. He ALWAYS wants the veteran QB to play. If he were a HC, he would be Bowles on steroids. Second he is just assuming that Hack is struggling and somehow will "learn" from McClown holding a clipboard.

It is nonsense. In the real world, we consistently hear that Hack is an intellectual QB.

Hack WILL struggle with reads because of the complexity, but you know what fixes that? Reps and game experience. Not sitting on the sidelines watching a TERRIBLE journeyman QB. Why doesnt anyone mention that McClown pretty much sucks? And unlike Hack he has an established record of sucking moose cock as a starting QB

This is just an alarmist BS article with no basis in facts or you know journalism on any level. But it's great clickbait for the Hack hating trolls to slither out of their hiding spots like irradiated roaches and be their nauseating annoying selves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

How you came to your conclusions based on the article is puzzling. How is the article itself hate towards Hackenberg? It's actually explaining the challenges he and Petty are facing and explaining why McCown is here. The WCO is a complex O.  And from the sounds of today's practice Hack & Petty are struggling getting out of the huddle with the right playcall.  But it's just the first week and those two are having a lot of new stuff thrown at them.  Hopefully it'll start to slow down for them as TC progresses. 

I know youve expressed your displeasure towards Jim Miller.  Why? Who knows. That's your choice. I think he's very good on Sirius. And again. He's been in Hackenberg's corner since leading up to the draft. As the article states Miller has played in both the Gailey system and this system (Bates was his QB coach). So if anyone IS qualified to know the difference it is him. 

[20andOut]

The "West Coast Offense" has been used throughout the NFL with great succes dating back to about 1980 and a guy named Bill Walsh. (often associated with another guy you may have heard of named Joe Montana) It shouldn't be a foreign language to anyone in the NFL except maybe Cimini.

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, Beerfish said:

The 4th rounder from the year before who is better than hack is being tossed into the dusty bin to make sure hack gets his 'shot'  Mccown is worse than fitzpatick

What friggen proof do you have that Petty is better than anyone?  He was total shlt playing last year.  

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Remember when Hackenberg had back to back days in camp where no one mentioned his feet.

And still aren't?  

[C Mart]

Edit

[C Mart]

31 minutes ago, 20andOut said:

The "West Coast Offense" has been used throughout the NFL with great succes dating back to about 1980 and a guy named Bill Walsh. (often associated with another guy you may have heard of named Joe Montana) It shouldn't be a foreign language to anyone in the NFL except maybe Cimini.

People know of the WCO. That doesn't mean people know what it entails. It also doesn't mean a player that's never played in that system before can step in and run it right away. 

Can you share w/us your WCO playbook and give us a tutorial so we can get an idea what the QBs need to do each play? 

[C Mart]

3 hours ago, ASH1962 said:

Oh great post, I agree a million percent. I wish "Dick" Cimini would keep his speculative opinions to himself. This is a very exciting time to be a Jet fan believe it or not, HC notwithstanding. We have lots of young hungry players on this roster and the last thing I want to read is anything being too complicated for them, that is plain ridiculous. Anyone has doubts about Hack's football IQ go here ...

 

Where is he questioning his IQ? He's pointing out what he needs to learn and what he & Petty are up against. He didn't say he can't learn it just explaining why it may take some time & why McCown is here. 

 

[nicg4360]

It's such an poor article 100% click bait. Hack and Petty have been in this playbook for how many days in training camp? Less than a week? Whoever reads into this needs help.

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[Fantasy Island]

Bowles said the offense looked sloppy today.  OMG, after 2 years he is  f i n a l l y  getting to the root cause.  Oh REJOICE!!!!!!!!

[j4jets]

Will Jets offense slow Hacks progress? That's easy. No. It's simple. To slow down, you need to be in motion. Hacks had no motion (progress) in his entire first year. That's the worst part, which is also the best part. It's all improvement from here on out. 

[Ghost420]

Mac should be fired for drafting this bum on the 2nd round

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[SAR I]

You would think there would be an East Coast Offense by now. 

SAR I

[Jetster]

I actually think you can yell & scream more at offensive players than on defense. On defense you obviously need to know the schemes your playing but you also have to be a little reckless too. 

Parcells literally chewed Phil Simms up & spit him out. Simms would bark back at Parcells & he'd just stare him down & wait for the next mistake to chew him out again. Simms spoke so highly of how these screaming matches toughened him up & taught him how to play making less mistakes & bad decisions that hurt the team.

Geno was SO DUMB that even right to the end he was running out of bounds with the ball in his hand losing yardage or getting popped while all he had to do was toss the ball in the seats. 3 years & he still couldn't grasp such a basic lesson! Could you have imagined Parcells here with Geno? OMG! Parcells head would have EXPLODED. 

So, I have no issue with Morton screaming at Hackenberg as long as Bates is the calmer, "here's what you need to do" guy. That's a great balance to have, the BOSS, calling plays, looking for execution & the teacher (Bates) explaining what went wrong & how we're going to fix it. I have a good feeling about this duo. I love the fact that Morton worked under Sean Payton. Add the QB wonderkind coming back from hiatus & I think if Hack has any talent the odds are good for the Jets QB future. 

[Jet Nut]

8 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

Bowles said the offense looked sloppy today.  OMG, after 2 years he is  f i n a l l y  getting to the root cause.  Oh REJOICE!!!!!!!!

Does anyone actually believe this is the first time he's called a practice sloppy or bad?  Every HC, maybe not Kotite, going back in time has reamed out the team, pulled them to the middle of the field, made them run laps, etc.  Bad practices and HCs reactions are nothing new. 

Hyper Jets fans looking for shlt to blame on the HC, staff or owner live for it though.

[C Mart]

8 hours ago, nicg4360 said:

It's such an poor article 100% click bait. Hack and Petty have been in this playbook for how many days in training camp? Less than a week? Whoever reads into this needs help.

Sent from my Moto Z using JetNation.com mobile app
 

Well, they have had the playbook for a couple of months (since OTAs started),

The article isn't trashing Hackenberg at all...So I'd say those that didn't read the article or comprehend it need the help..But oh well..

“Hack got to play and learned a lot more,” Bowles said. “From a confidence standpoint, it's picked up quite a bit. He's got some timing down as well and he's got a good feel for the offense, so I expect when he comes back for training camp, he'll just let loose and throw the ball without thinking.”

Hackenberg plans to spend the next five weeks mixing business and pleasure. He will scour the Jets’ playbook and continue to work out at his family’s home in Virginia as well as take a hunting trip to Nova Scotia.

http://www.ydr.com/story/sports/2017/06/18/christian-hackenberg-might-finally-get-his-chance-jets/406669001/

[thadude]

2 hours ago, Ghost420 said:

Mac should be fired for drafting this bum on the 2nd round

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He will be

[nicg4360]

He will be

I think Woody's Ambassadorship has bought Mac some more time.

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[thadude]

1 minute ago, nicg4360 said:

I think Woody's Ambassadorship has bought Mac some more time.

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Well yeah this current administration hasn't been firing anyone

[Bugg]

22 hours ago, C Mart said:

props to Cimini he actually wrote a football article.

Will Jets' complex offense slow Christian Hackenberg's progress?

By Rich Cimini

FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- When Christian Hackenberg receives a playcall from the sideline, it could sound something like this: 

"Blast to Joker right 'X' motion 372 'R' Slant spacing." 

It's a base pass play in Jon Gruden's version of the West Coast offense, known for its complicated verbiage. He taught the system years ago to New York Jets offensive coordinator John Morton, who introduced it to the team in April. 

Jets quarterback Christian Hackenberg is learning his fourth offensive system in the past five seasons, dating to his time at Penn State.

Hello, crash course. 

Veteran quarterbacks say it takes years to master the West Coast offense. Some have complained, claiming it takes too long to receive the play and relay it to the huddle. The Jets are hoping Hackenberg -- in his fourth offensive system in the past five years -- can learn it well enough to play this season. 

Mentally, it's an enormous challenge, particularly since Morton hasn't streamlined it. He's installing the system in its original form, which means a giant playbook and a lot of memorization. 

"You have to keep getting reps at it, hearing it, saying and spitting it back out," Hackenberg said. 

The well-traveled Josh McCown, 38, who has played in just about every system known to man, said the West Coast offense is "like learning a new language." He said the average playcall is 10 to 12 words, which means they're longer than some of Todd Bowles' news conference answers. Every word and every number has a specific meaning, covering the formation, motions/shifts and pass-protection schemes. Mess up one syllable, and you ruin the entire play. 

The Jets' quarterbacks -- McCown, Hackenberg and Bryce Petty -- drill each other on the verbiage. Not only do they want to memorize the playcalls, but their goal is to repeat them with conviction. 

"[You] want to rattle that out smoothly, where the guys in the huddle believe in what we’re talking about," McCown said. 

League insiders think McCown has the edge in the Jets' quarterback competition, in large part, because of his background in this offense. He has played in variations of the West Coast offense, which is a new world for Hackenberg and Petty. 

Former NFL quarterback Jim Miller has a unique perspective because he played under Gruden (Tampa Bay Buccaneers) and former Jets coordinator Chan Gailey (Pittsburgh Steelers). Miller said there's little similarity between the two systems, one of the reasons why he favors McCown in the competition. 

"I think it will be McCown, I really believe that," said Miller, who co-hosts a SiriusXM NFL radio show with Pat Kirwan. "He gives them their best chance to win. He knows that offense, inside and out. Let the young guys learn from him." 

Miller, who visited the Jets this week on his training-camp tour, was kind enough to give a detailed breakdown of the playcall: Blast to Joker right "X" motion 372 "R" Slant spacing. If you like Xs and Os, you'll enjoy this. 

Blast: The type of shift. 

Joker right: The final formation after the shift. In this case, a running back shifts out of the backfield and splits out wide right. 

X motion: The X receiver motions across the formation from weak to strong. 

372: This is the protection. Gruden called it Jet 2 (right) or Jet 3 (left). Miller used a numerical code. It's 372 because the play requires a three-step drop by the quarterback and "72" is the protection, with the line sliding toward the weakside linebacker. The line is responsible for the four-man line, plus the Will linebacker -- a 5-on-5 situation. 

R Slant: After shifting, the running back runs a slant route. 

How the play unfolds: The remaining running back reads the middle linebacker and strongside linebacker. If they both rush, the quarterback is a blocker short and must throw quickly to his best matchup. The tight end runs a five-yard hook. The X receiver, after motioning across the formation, runs a flat route. The Z receiver hooks at five yards. 

Mind you, this is only one play. There are hundreds in Morton's playbook, and each one has variations because of different formations. This is a small sample of what's spinning in Hackenberg's brain when he steps into the huddle, and he must convince 10 other players he knows what he's doing. 

"You want to convey that, 'Hey, I'm in control of this ship and I understand what's going on,'" Miller said. "That's command, that's huddle presence, that's conviction. Make those players believe in you." 

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/70060/will-jets-complex-offense-slow-christian-hackenbergs-progress

Paul Hackett withdrawal right there. Bad enough Petty and Hackenberg(leave McCown out because in a sensible universe he holds a clipboard, period) can barely figure out the basics, lets' complicate it some more. Can't wait for the delay of game penalties and senseless timeouts because we have to wait for the genius big brain OC to get the play in and have the QB convey it to the offense. And all to throw a 6 yard in the flat dump  pass on 3rd and 8. Been there, done that. Again, this franchise has no institutional memory at all. 

[56mehl56]

21 hours ago, thadude said:

Watch Kizer, Watson and Glennon all play well this year 

Why would I want to watch gamefilm from past college seasons.

[Bugg]

20 hours ago, Tinstar said:

What you need to keep in mind is that the players or the coaches are not making excuses, only the media and the fans who want others to understand why they make certain statements . 

We have had regime after regime babble nonsense about how they don't have the offense "installed" or some such nonsense midseason. Looks like Bowles is no different. Keep picking the same defense first HC and then wonder why the offense sucks every year. Scoring is never a priority here. 

[JohnnyLV]

50 minutes ago, Bugg said:

We have had regime after regime babble nonsense about how they don't have the offense "installed" or some such nonsense midseason. Looks like Bowles is no different. Keep picking the same defense first HC and then wonder why the offense sucks every year. Scoring is never a priority here. 

So so true.

[Ex-Rex]

22 hours ago, thadude said:

5 more months till Mac and Bowles are both fired!

Are you a closet Pats fan? I haven't read a single post from you that is in any way positive. I don't think EITHER Mac or Bowles will be fired this season, although I really hope Bowles does, I doubt he will.

[TuscanyTile2]

23 hours ago, Beerfish said:

I thought the one thing this guy had going for him is that he was very smart and played in a pro offense out of college and he just had a red shirt year to get used to the complexities of nfl offenses.

The excuse mongering is starting up good and early this year.

This is one of the 10 articles that Tom Shane referenced Jet beat writers having a template of before going to Buffalo Wild WIngs to drink on the company dime.

[C Mart]

23 hours ago, Beerfish said:

I thought the one thing this guy had going for him is that he was very smart and played in a pro offense out of college and he just had a red shirt year to get used to the complexities of nfl offenses.

The excuse mongering is starting up good and early this year.

JC and that is why he's by all accounts ahead of Petty. To think he would be further along understanding this O at this stage more than McCown is ridiculous.

I'll just leave it at that...

[thadude]

20 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

 I don't think EITHER Mac or Bowles will be fired this season.

Hahahahahahagaha 

[C Mart]

19 hours ago, jetscrazey said:

Totally agree that Petty has no shot in this system.  It's between McCown and Hackenberg.  My money is on McCown, which is pure stupidity but I think the coaches will do it anyway.

Why do people care?  I thought by most accounts here this is a tank 0-16 season...So why do people care who plays?

JC can people just have some patience. It's not stupidity if McCown starts the season and helps get the other 10 players up to speed on the O for a few games. Let Hack observe, hear the playcalls, see how McCown handles the calls/checks at the LOS.  Then let Hack take over.  There are 16 regular season games. Hack will get his chance this yr. Whether it's week 1 or week 8 he'll get his chance. And when he does there will be plenty here that will rip him to sh*t no matter what he does or doesn't do. 

[Tinstar]

3 hours ago, C Mart said:

Why do people care?  I thought by most accounts here this is a tank 0-16 season...So why do people care who plays?

JC can people just have some patience. It's not stupidity if McCown starts the season and helps get the other 10 players up to speed on the O for a few games. Let Hack observe, hear the playcalls, see how McCown handles the calls/checks at the LOS.  Then let Hack take over.  There are 16 regular season games. Hack will get his chance this yr. Whether it's week 1 or week 8 he'll get his chance. And when he does there will be plenty here that will rip him to sh*t no matter what he does or doesn't do. 

Relax @C Mart, there're some here who are too stupid to understand what's going on and others who do what they do just to get a rise out of people . Best bet is to ignore both set of, well I hope you know what . 

[Villain The Foe]

On 8/4/2017 at 7:06 PM, Beerfish said:

I thought the one thing this guy had going for him is that he was very smart and played in a pro offense out of college and he just had a red shirt year to get used to the complexities of nfl offenses.

The excuse mongering is starting up good and early this year.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ this

[C Mart]

2 hours ago, Tinstar said:

Relax @C Mart, there're some here who are too stupid to understand what's going on and others who do what they do just to get a rise out of people . Best bet is to ignore both set of, well I hope you know what . 

LOL. I'm w/Tin. Quite evident in this thread.