WFAN/Francesa at Jets Camp today

[C Mart]

14 minutes ago, Jet9 said:

I didn't catch it today, But Mike has been pretty fair to the Jets since Macc and Bowles took over. Maybe because of the Parcells thing with Bowles. I don't know. All I DO know is that he really didn't like Rex or Idzik. 

	WFAN Sports Radio (@WFAN660)
8/21/17, 5:44 PM LISTEN: Francesa Interviews Bowles, Hackenberg, Others From Jets Training Camp cbsloc.al/2v8ANYA

 

[JetsFanatic]

41 minutes ago, Jet9 said:

I didn't catch it today, But Mike has been pretty fair to the Jets since Macc and Bowles took over. Maybe because of the Parcells thing with Bowles. I don't know. All I DO know is that he really didn't like Rex or Idzik. 

Francesa certainly respects Bowles. It was a good interview. Bowles says he is enjoying this camp more than his first two. Feels more comfortable as HC. 

[johnnyjet]

....at least we don't have Geno.  He still sucks.  

[hawk]

9 hours ago, SAR I said:

He's a deer hunter.  Clearly, aim isn't a problem.

SAR I

Uh, what that picture doesnt say is that deer intercepted the bullet!

[Jet9]

5 hours ago, C Mart said:

	WFAN Sports Radio (@WFAN660)
8/21/17, 5:44 PM LISTEN: Francesa Interviews Bowles, Hackenberg, Others From Jets Training Camp cbsloc.al/2v8ANYA

 

Thank you, sir. 

[Bruce Harper]

3 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

Christian Hackenberg is Joey Harrington 2.0, and that is not a good thing to be.

Harrington was the third pick of the draft, so he got rushed.  I'm not sure I see the comparison.

[Jetster]

Please give up this argument with WASTING a 2nd rounder on Hackenberg. He was the 51st player chosen! My god, have you forgotten already about Stephen Hill, Vlad Ducasse, Geno Smith, Devin Smith, Hack might just be another 2nd round bust for the Jets, not the end of the world. So far Maye looks like a keeper so hopefully we've broken the 2nd round jinx.

If we end up with the 1st pick in 2018 everyone will forget about trying to find a QB in the 2nd round. Hacks story isn't over yet either, most QBs take time. Guys like Steve Young, Vinnie T, even Favre got traded when he was young. One thing Macc has GOT to do is fix this f*cking Oline. No QB can be successful running for their life on every snap. You'd think the Jets learned something from those 2009-2010 olines they put out there. Those lines made the Jets go, similar to how the Cowboys line is leading the way for them now. Brian Winters better get his head out of his azz, that resigning is not looking good!

[Lupz27]

51 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

Harrington was the third pick of the draft, so he got rushed.  I'm not sure I see the comparison.

Both are low key hillbillies that don't seem to exude the ability to command the other 10 guys on the field because of that low key personality.

[drsamuel84]

9 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Please give up this argument with WASTING a 2nd rounder on Hackenberg. He was the 51st player chosen! My god, have you forgotten already about Stephen Hill, Vlad Ducasse, Geno Smith, Devin Smith, Hack might just be another 2nd round bust for the Jets, not the end of the world. So far Maye looks like a keeper so hopefully we've broken the 2nd round jinx.

If we end up with the 1st pick in 2018 everyone will forget about trying to find a QB in the 2nd round. Hacks story isn't over yet either, most QBs take time. Guys like Steve Young, Vinnie T, even Favre got traded when he was young. One thing Macc has GOT to do is fix this f*cking Oline. No QB can be successful running for their life on every snap. You'd think the Jets learned something from those 2009-2010 olines they put out there. Those lines made the Jets go, similar to how the Cowboys line is leading the way for them now. Brian Winters better get his head out of his azz, that resigning is not looking good!

I get the strategy when you're in the Jets position to "keep drafting a QB until you find one"  and I'm all for it but the organization needs to put more of a value on draft picks as a whole stemming back all the way to the Tannenbaum days.  These 2nd Rd. busts you mention could've been a rebuild o-line instead we're stuck with a QB who's not even close, a often injured WR and a bunch of guys who aren't on the team or even in the league anymore.  A lot of focus is always going to be placed on that number 1 pick but the lack of contribution for that second rd. pick over the last 5-10 years is really rearing it's ugly head.  And yes, if we find a franchise QB as far as many fans are concerned all will be forgiven but this team still has soooo many other holes on offense it's hard for me to believe we're just a QB away.

[Augustiniak]

12 minutes ago, drsamuel84 said:

I get the strategy when you're in the Jets position to "keep drafting a QB until you find one"  and I'm all for it but the organization needs to put more of a value on draft picks as a whole stemming back all the way to the Tannenbaum days.  These 2nd Rd. busts you mention could've been a rebuild o-line instead we're stuck with a QB who's not even close, a often injured WR and a bunch of guys who aren't on the team or even in the league anymore.  A lot of focus is always going to be placed on that number 1 pick but the lack of contribution for that second rd. pick over the last 5-10 years is really rearing it's ugly head.  And yes, if we find a franchise QB as far as many fans are concerned all will be forgiven but this team still has soooo many other holes on offense it's hard for me to believe we're just a QB away.

i think a big part of the problem which often gets glossed over is that this team has not emphasized coaching up/developing offensive players in a long time.  when defenders here get drafted there is usually a plan for how they're going to be used.  the guys they draft for offense, like amaro, devin smith, stephen hill, ducasse, geno, sanchez, etc., they're thrown into a hodgepodge of schemes where the players don't fit together, and the OC is left to come up with something that can avoid making the precious defense look bad.  so you wind up with no first round offensive players, guys like devin smith paired with a qb like fitz who can't throw the long ball, and a team that has to go outside the organization to bring in offensive skill players b/c the organization can't draft or develop them.  that's why the gms have brought in farve/fitz/mccown, b/c the offensive coaching staffs had no shot of developing sanchez or geno.  that's why the gms brought in curtis martin/thomas jones/tomlinson/ivory/forte, b/c the last rb they drafted in the 1st or 2nd round was lamont jordan.  that's why they keep bringing in veteran wrs from other teams like holmes/edwards/decker/marshall, b/c they draft complete stiffs like stephen hill and smith.  

even beyond hack and petty, it would be nice to see a competent offensive coaching staff make it a priority to develop stewart/hansen/leggett/mcguire, so the new qb starts out with, at the very least, some secondary competent weapons even before free agency.  

[varjet]

19 minutes ago, drsamuel84 said:

I get the strategy when you're in the Jets position to "keep drafting a QB until you find one"  and I'm all for it but the organization needs to put more of a value on draft picks as a whole stemming back all the way to the Tannenbaum days.  These 2nd Rd. busts you mention could've been a rebuild o-line instead we're stuck with a QB who's not even close, a often injured WR and a bunch of guys who aren't on the team or even in the league anymore.  A lot of focus is always going to be placed on that number 1 pick but the lack of contribution for that second rd. pick over the last 5-10 years is really rearing it's ugly head.  And yes, if we find a franchise QB as far as many fans are concerned all will be forgiven but this team still has soooo many other holes on offense it's hard for me to believe we're just a QB away.

At the minimum Macc needs a capable new boss.   He does know how to scout, but they need someone who can knock some sense into people, and someone who has a vision of how to build a winning football team.

In this draft you have Davis Webb taken in the third round, Peterman in the 5th and Kaaya in the 6th.  You can argue that all of them look better than Hack and Petty do.    Both Hack and Petty can end up to be something in this league, as can the above other players, but those players were not 2nd and 4th round draft picks.

They still need Hack and Petty even if they draft a QB high next year, because they do not have the infrastructure for a good young QB like Dallas did/does.  

[Adoni Beast]

41 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Both are low key hillbillies that don't seem to exude the ability to command the other 10 guys on the field because of that low key personality.

Darnold is also extremely quiet and low key. However, he looks like some football sevant-Dexter serial killer. So I think that automatically commands respect if you think your quarterback may filet your brain in your sleep if you run the wrong route. 

All in all if we somehow end up with Darnold and he doesn't regress this season, everyone will forget Hack was ever even drafted.

[Integrity28]

12 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

Francesa certainly respects Bowles. It was a good interview. Bowles says he is enjoying this camp more than his first two. Feels more comfortable as HC. 

That's good. I'm glad Woody keeps hiring head coaches that haven't really been HC before. It means that they need a curve, and the firing rate for Jets HC's just happens to be shorter than the necessary curve. And it also ensures that the team will never get over the plateau of breaking in new hires and become systematically competent or competitive... because these things are the byproduct of stability.

[drsamuel84]

26 minutes ago, varjet said:

At the minimum Macc needs a capable new boss.   He does know how to scout, but they need someone who can knock some sense into people, and someone who has a vision of how to build a winning football team.

In this draft you have Davis Webb taken in the third round, Peterman in the 5th and Kaaya in the 6th.  You can argue that all of them look better than Hack and Petty do.    Both Hack and Petty can end up to be something in this league, as can the above other players, but those players were not 2nd and 4th round draft picks.

They still need Hack and Petty even if they draft a QB high next year, because they do not have the infrastructure for a good young QB like Dallas did/does.  

I don't disagree with that point, maybe it's just been too big of a jump for Macc taking on a GM job and he could use a "mentor" of sorts.  When fans complained about our structure of both the coach and GM reporting to Woody, I didn't have a problem with the idea what I had and continue to have a problem with is that the guy they report into is Woody and now his brother. I don't want to turn this into a Woody bashing but what does he know about football in order to help make sound football decisions?  How is he ultimately able to decide situations where Macc and Bowles disagree?  I think the right way should've been either hiring a more experienced GM who the HC reports into or hiring a Senior VP who's a football guy and can contribute to things like player personal decisions and have Macc and Bowles report into that person 

 

[munchmemory]

17 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

Christian Hackenberg is Joey Harrington 2.0, and that is not a good thing to be.

Let's make it apples to apples:  Hack is Todd Blackledge 2.0.  

[sourceworx]

8 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

That's good. I'm glad Woody keeps hiring head coaches that haven't really been HC before. It means that they need a curve, and the firing rate for Jets HC's just happens to be shorter than the necessary curve. And it also ensures that the team will never get over the plateau of breaking in new hires and become systematically competent or competitive... because these things are the byproduct of stability.

We keep repeating the same mistake when it comes to coaches. You can't keep hiring the latest Flavor of the Month coordinator who's never been a head coach before, and then get pissed off when he makes mistakes due to his lack of experience. 

You either have to bring in a retread, and hope he's learned from his past experiences (most are retreads because they flamed out elsewhere).  Or you need to hire a first time guy and commit to him long term, because he's surely going to make mistakes his first few seasons.  The problem is the latter option requires patience, something this market has none of.

[Lupz27]

17 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

Darnold is also extremely quiet and low key. However, he looks like some football sevant-Dexter serial killer. So I think that automatically commands respect if you think your quarterback may filet your brain in your sleep if you run the wrong route. 

All in all if we somehow end up with Darnold and he doesn't regress this season, everyone will forget Hack was ever even drafted.

Agreed, but if we don't it's another 5 years minimum of QB incompetence, and/or veteran retread "bridge" QB FML.

[Matt39]

9 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

We keep repeating the same mistake when it comes to coaches. You can't keep hiring the latest Flavor of the Month coordinator who's never been a head coach before, and then get pissed off when he makes mistakes due to his lack of experience. 

You either have to bring in a retread, and hope he's learned from his past experiences (most are retreads because they flamed out elsewhere).  Or you need to hire a first time guy and commit to him long term, because he's surely going to make mistakes his first few seasons.  The problem is the latter option requires patience, something this market has none of.

Whether it be a coach, GM or President they need to bring in somone who understands what actually wins games and how it correlates to the draft. "Out executing" or whatever other silly coach speak is pretty meaningless when you dont know what to look for when drafting talent.

[Lupz27]

23 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

That's good. I'm glad Woody keeps hiring head coaches that haven't really been HC before. It means that they need a curve, and the firing rate for Jets HC's just happens to be shorter than the necessary curve. And it also ensures that the team will never get over the plateau of breaking in new hires and become systematically competent or competitive... because these things are the byproduct of stability.

We have had 4 HC's in the last 17 years of Woody's reign including this upcoming season, that's really not ridiculous compared to teams like the Browns, and Bills to name a few, hell I think the Dolphins had 4 HC's in a year span if you count Bowles interim term.

Also the last 3 HC's all were hired, or in Herms case traded, and got a HC job immediately the next season, for whatever that's worth, thou all 3 flamed out after those gigs.

[Integrity28]

2 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

We have had 4 HC's in the last 17 years of Woody's reign including this upcoming season, that's really not ridiculous compared to teams like the Browns, and Bills to name a few, hell I think the Dolphins had 4 HC's in a year span if you count Bowles interim term.

I don't care what others teams have done. I care that Woody keeps over-promoting coordinators and having it fail.

[sourceworx]

Just now, Matt39 said:

Whether it be a coach, GM or President they need to bring in somone who understands what actually wins games and how it correlates to the draft.

I agree with T0m when he says that we need a Football Operations guy to manage the GM and coach.  Maccagnan reminds me of Terry Bradway. He can spot talent, but he has no concept of how to build a football team.

Bowles on the other hand really surprised me.  I'm shocked at what a weakling he is. 

[Lupz27]

8 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

I don't care what others teams have done. I care that Woody keeps over-promoting coordinators and having it fail.

It's really been the last 7 years as the first 10 the Jets were in the playoffs 6 of the 10 years, and 2 AFCCG appearances.  IMO where Woody went wrong was firing Tanny instead of Rex, and getting Tanny paired back up with a level headed, responsible HC where he seemed to do well.

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

It's really been the last 7 years as the first 10 the Jets were in the playoffs 6 of the 10 years, and 2 AFCCG appearances.  IMO we're Woody went wrong was firing Tanny instead of Rex, and getting Tanny paired back up with a level headed, responsible HC where he seemed to do well.

the team's poor drafting was covered up by bringing in veterans, that's why fitz did well his first year here, and why sanchez did ok his first two years.  as soon as the vets leave, the lack of younger talent, especially on offense, was exposed. 

[Lupz27]

20 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

the team's poor drafting was covered up by bringing in veterans, that's why fitz did well his first year here, and why sanchez did ok his first two years.  as soon as the vets leave, the lack of younger talent, especially on offense, was exposed. 

That didn't really get out of hand until 2009, prior to that the Jets had plenty of good young drafted, or UDFA talented players developed with D'Brick, Mangold, Moore, L Washington, Cotchery, Harris, Revis, Rhodes, Thomas to name a few off the top of my head, and those were added to a decent group already established in Pennington, Ellis, Abraham, Coles to name a few, and the FA's added were really good Mawae, Richardson, Thomas, Woody, Faneca, and Pace to name a few this combined talent saw the Jets actually be a pretty successful NFL team from 2001 to 2009 take away 4 seasons which saw QB injuries 2003, 2005, 2007, 2008 the Jets made the playoffs every single year the starting QB was healthy for the full season, and besides the first 11 games of 2008 those healthy QB's were just good to average, if the Jets kept the plan in place plugging along until we found/find that QB that was above average the Jets might be ready to contend when this mythical QB appears lol.

[C Mart]

57 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Let's make it apples to apples:  Hack is Todd Blackledge 2.0.  

One was the #7 pick in the draft the other was the 51st 

[JetsFanatic]

5 minutes ago, C Mart said:

One was the #7 pick in the draft the other was the 51st 

There isn't any room for logic, just let them vent. 

[Lupz27]

7 minutes ago, C Mart said:

One was the #7 pick in the draft the other was the 51st 

I was comparing how their personalities seem to be similar, and Hacks possible inability to succeed as a starting QB in the NFL could be the same reason why Harrington didn't succeed his laid back hillbilly ways.

[JetsFanatic]

12 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

I was comparing how their personalities seem to be similar, and Hacks possible inability to succeed as a starting QB in the NFL could be the same reason why Harrington didn't succeed his laid back hillbilly ways.

Too early to draw conclusions. I admit I was disappointed Saturday night, but I would like to see more of him. Some QBs take time. 

[Adoni Beast]

1 hour ago, Lupz27 said:

It's really been the last 7 years as the first 10 the Jets were in the playoffs 6 of the 10 years, and 2 AFCCG appearances.  IMO where Woody went wrong was firing Tanny instead of Rex, and getting Tanny paired back up with a level headed, responsible HC where he seemed to do well.

This definitely isn't a popular opinion, but I think that Mangini should be brought in as head of football operations. (Of course that will never happen with the way Woody betrayed Mangini in 2008). I believe he was way more influential in the talent influx that this team had between 2008-2010, than Tannenbaum.

Mangini knows how to build a team, he knows football, just could not connect with players, which will always hinder him from being a successful head coach

But he had this team on the right track. Once he was gone the influx of home grown talent took a nose dive.  

[Matt39]

1 hour ago, sourceworx said:

I agree with T0m when he says that we need a Football Operations guy to manage the GM and coach.  Maccagnan reminds me of Terry Bradway. He can spot talent, but he has no concept of how to build a football team.

Bowles on the other hand really surprised me.  I'm shocked at what a weakling he is. 

Bowles like Rex, doesnt look at the job like a HC should. He looks at it like he's still DC. Every year the Jets offense sucks, the year ends, then there's 4 months in between the end of the season and the draft where the organization forgets how bad the offense actually was. Bowles wants the defense to look good more than anything...and just like Rex he gets over excited when a top D prospect falls to us in the draft. Fast forward to training camp and the offense still sucks. Repeat. Honestly if the draft occurred closer to the end of the season we probably always wouldnt be picking defense first.

[Doggin94it]

19 hours ago, SAR I said:

He's a deer hunter.  Clearly, aim isn't a problem.

SAR I

As long as it's not boar

[munchmemory]

2 hours ago, C Mart said:

One was the #7 pick in the draft the other was the 51st 

Thanks, Mr. Laughs.  Guess I'm saying they both suck and will be out of the League quickly.

 

EDIT:  Oops.  Forgot to state the obvious that they were both Nittany Lions.  Have an awesome afternoon.

[C Mart]

1 hour ago, munchmemory said:

Thanks, Mr. Laughs.  Guess I'm saying they both suck and will be out of the League quickly.

 

EDIT:  Oops.  Forgot to state the obvious that they were both Nittany Lions.  Have an awesome afternoon.

That's the spirit. So hoping a 22 yr old Jet player is out of the league quickly is humorous?  What a guy.

[munchmemory]

1 hour ago, C Mart said:

That's the spirit. So hoping a 22 yr old Jet player is out of the league quickly is humorous?  What a guy.

Not hoping.  I just see the reality of the situation.

[Jet9]

5 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

I was comparing how their personalities seem to be similar, and Hacks possible inability to succeed as a starting QB in the NFL could be the same reason why Harrington didn't succeed his laid back hillbilly ways.

You've posted this in 2 separate threads now. Time to back it up with some proof.