Thank you Chris Johnson

[RESNewYork]

11 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Just because it works for other franchises doesn't mean it will ever work for us.  You need COMPETENT ownership to make it work.  Otherwise, you need to just hire a VP of Operations and hand the keys over.  We need the latter to happen if we're ever going to be a perennial contender.

That may be the case but let's stop pretending the Jets are the only team to employ this structure. It sounds like fans believe the Jets are the only ones.

[NoBowles]

58 minutes ago, j4jets said:

I don’t think he demanded that at all. Why else would you give out extensions after two straight 5-11 seasons?

Becasue if Woody didn't demand it, he just extended a HC and GM that had 2 straight 5-11 seasons and are going into year 4 with a situation that would have been palatable in year 2. If this was Bowles and Maccagnan who did that in year 1 with that roster, and Woody didn't push them into it, Woody is a bigger moron than I think he is.

[ljr]

3 hours ago, RESNewYork said:

That may be the case but let's stop pretending the Jets are the only team to employ this structure. It sounds like fans believe the Jets are the only ones.

JMO ... But I would think most fans who look at the Organizational Hierarchy of the Jets see bright red lights flashing & saying "This Isn't Working!".

There needs to be a "The Buck Stops Here" guy at the top who knows what he's doing & everyone else answers to ... That is what's missing from our team

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, ljr said:

JMO ... But I would think most fans who look at the Organizational Hierarchy of the Jets see bright red lights flashing & saying "This Isn't Working!".

There needs to be a "The Buck Stops Here" guy at the top who knows what he's doing & everyone else answers to ... That is what's missing from our team

I agree. But at the very least, the Johnsons have acknowledged that they need outside help to hire proper GMs and coaches

[NoBowles]

14 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

Definitely a weakness 100% correct but there is no excuse for not doing your job 

Not doing your job is inexcusable, but being put in a position to not succeed at your job is another. This is what Woody has done IMO.

[NoBowles]

14 hours ago, RESNewYork said:

The Jets are not the only team with this structure.

The Giants have the same. Right now, Gettleman can suggest who the new coach is but the owners have the final say.

There are other teams in the NFL that have this as well. I don't remember the article though

 

 

 

Just because other teams are doing it, doesn't mean the Jets should. The Giants have a better owner than Woody.

 

[chirorob]

On 1/1/2018 at 3:06 AM, j4jets said:

After two straight 5-11 seasons, we started handing out contract extensions to the FO. Well done, Chris. Well done! Maybe we can extend Mo as well after yet another sh*t filled season. Love these 6th overall picks. Helps Mac luck into good players. And you thought Rex was the clown. 

See, and people ask Bowles why he tried to win games.

If he runs Petty out there, and the team goes 2-14 or 1-15, he is fired.   No matter how well he coached this roster, he is fired.   So he tried to win games.   What coach would have won significantly more games the last 2 years?   Now, the GM.   Well, he has added no real talent since he took over.  So, you give them one more year, and if they go 5-11, you clean house.

Besides, other than Gruden, who was not coming here, what other great coaches are out there?

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, chirorob said:

See, and people ask Bowles why he tried to win games.

If he runs Petty out there, and the team goes 2-14 or 1-15, he is fired.   No matter how well he coached this roster, he is fired.   So he tried to win games.   What coach would have won significantly more games the last 2 years?   Now, the GM.   Well, he has added no real talent since he took over.  So, you give them one more year, and if they go 5-11, you clean house.

 

Yep.  Another reason our system is dysfunctional.  It happened under Rex Ryan too, where he was trying to win meaningless games in order to keep his job OR improve his resume for his next job.  No one was on the same page.  We should have fired Rex midseason that year so that we could have tanked properly. 

In this instance, if the plan was to retain Macc and Bowles, Johnson should have let them know their jobs were safe early on so we could throw the young QB's out there without any threat to Bowles that he'd lose his job over it.  

Bad ownership leads to a trickle down effect.  And the losers in all of this are us, the fans.  

[chirorob]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yep.  Another reason our system is dysfunctional.  It happened under Rex Ryan too, where he was trying to win meaningless games in order to keep his job OR improve his resume for his next job.  No one was on the same page.  We should have fired Rex midseason that year so that we could have tanked properly. 

In this instance, if the plan was to retain Macc and Bowles, Johnson should have let them know their jobs were safe early on so we could throw the young QB's out there without any threat to Bowles that he'd lose his job over it.  

Bad ownership leads to a trickle down effect.  And the losers in all of this are us, the fans.  

You do that, or don't complain when they do whatever they can to keep their job.

[Charlie Brown]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Yep.  Another reason our system is dysfunctional.  It happened under Rex Ryan too, where he was trying to win meaningless games in order to keep his job OR improve his resume for his next job.  No one was on the same page.  We should have fired Rex midseason that year so that we could have tanked properly. 

In this instance, if the plan was to retain Macc and Bowles, Johnson should have let them know their jobs were safe early on so we could throw the young QB's out there without any threat to Bowles that he'd lose his job over it.  

Bad ownership leads to a trickle down effect.  And the losers in all of this are us, the fans.  

You are 100% correct but...

No one trusts Woody anymore after he fired Mangini (after promising he wouldn't) and sort of did the same thing to Rex in Rex' last year when he really did a good job with a talent less team (the year to fire him was the prior year).

Despite what folks think out here Bowles is not an idiot, he had to win as many games as he could to maintain his job! 

Bowles could only reasonably take such a risk if Management gave him an extension; period

[NoBowles]

1 minute ago, Charlie Brown said:

You are 100% correct but...

No one trusts Woody anymore after he fired Mangini (after promising he wouldn't) and sort of did the same thing to Rex in Rex' last year when he really did a good job with a talent less team (the year to fire him was the prior year).

Despite what folks think out here Bowles is not an idiot, he had to win as many games as he could to maintain his job! 

Bowles could only reasonably take such a risk if Management gave him an extension; period

What he did to Mangini was F'd up, but what he did to Rex? He kept Rex 2 years too long, I never heard of any promise to Rex that he wouldn't fire him. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, j4jets said:

I don’t think he demanded that at all. Why else would you give out extensions after two straight 5-11 seasons?

Of course not, nor has there been a credible leak that he did.

Despite the unsubstantiated ideas people convince themselves must be true - because they want it to be true - the most likely series of events is what we all saw unfold (starting Jan/Feb 2015), which was this:

1. Jets had lots of cap room and lots of holes. They also had some under-performing players they had to make decisions on, to - at least on paper - create still more holes (Harvin and CJ<1K in particular). 

So in year 1, the GM felt he'd fill holes with a bunch with expensive FAs and do what he termed a "competitive rebuild" of signing expensive FAs and then draft guys to take over for them in 1-3 years. It is based on this logic that he bragged about his foolish "BAP regardless of need" mantra, and started the process by filling a position that was already filled. Twice. Actually 3x if you include Coples (and you should, since Macc once liked him enough to exercise.

The problem is his huge spending was only mildly effective (required a major dream scenario scheduling-wise and player health-wise to barely reach 10 games). An improvement over 2014, of course, but considering the cost it was a letdown.

2. In year 2, he built upon that, thinking he actually had something when he didn't, and it collapsed after just 1 season. 

3. In year 3, he accepted defeat, purged the roster so only a couple of his pickups remain (just Skrine & Carpenter), and claim they're restarting the rebuild.

In actuality, it's not a restart. It's the same one; it's just that the bridge between his inherited veterans, his newly-acquired veterans, and the new young FAs and draftees was filled with fewer wins than expected. The "Rebuild II" mantra is effectively a marketing invention; in reality it's the same one they started with in 2015. Meanwhile, to kickstart this supposedly-reborn rebuilding process, he started it with 2 safeties. Because everyone knows safeties have always been the most important cornerstones of superbowl champions.

The best things these 2 have going for them is the Johnson duo, which doesn't require accountability or success to get extensions.

[Dcat]

4 hours ago, RESNewYork said:

That may be the case but let's stop pretending the Jets are the only team to employ this structure. It sounds like fans believe the Jets are the only ones.

there are a couple of others.  So what?  Then they are just as dumb as Woody Johnson and his stupid brother.  It's a horrendous way to run the organization and has failed every waking moment since Woody Johnson shoved it down the organization's throat.  F-ing dumb beyond comprehension.

[Charlie Brown]

2 hours ago, NoBowles said:

What he did to Mangini was F'd up, but what he did to Rex? He kept Rex 2 years too long, I never heard of any promise to Rex that he wouldn't fire him. 

I too wanted Rex gone prior to when he was cut but the year the Jets/Johnson did pull the trigger it made NO sense, no one could win with that lineup.  

[j4jets]

15 hours ago, NoBowles said:

Becasue if Woody didn't demand it, he just extended a HC and GM that had 2 straight 5-11 seasons and are going into year 4 with a situation that would have been palatable in year 2. If this was Bowles and Maccagnan who did that in year 1 with that roster, and Woody didn't push them into it, Woody is a bigger moron than I think he is.

Again, where is the progress? 10-6, 5-11, 5-11. We have no QB. Our strongest position is safeties. After that, I honestly can’t tell u which other department or position is our 2nd strongest. They’re all below average. Even our overrated DL is hardly average at best that makes no big plays EVER! I don’t see the improvement my friend unless u think we’ll do great with cap space and draft pick, which already took place 3 years ago and brought us here again...with the same FO. 

[Jetsplayer21]

11 minutes ago, j4jets said:

Again, where is the progress? 10-6, 5-11, 5-11. We have no QB. Our strongest position is safeties. After that, I honestly can’t tell u which other department or position is our 2nd strongest. They’re all below average. Even our overrated DL is hardly average at best that makes no big plays EVER! I don’t see the improvement my friend unless u think we’ll do great with cap space and draft pick, which already took place 3 years ago and brought us here again...with the same FO. 

Mac should be fired for trying to tank and failing ha. Ownership realized  before end of 2016 season, we were QUITE far away from a 1 offseason fix. Why they kept their $$ in their pockets last offseason. It’s ok to collect your team and sacrifice a yr. clear more cap and then hit it hard. While getting a top pick too. This team definitely doesn’t finish with more than 3 wins, 2 is more likely. If only Petty and hackenberg were 1-2 qbs. We likely pick #2.  But Mac underestimated McCown, thought he would be as bad as his golden boy he was afraid to show. Now we may have to trade away some future picks to get where we should have been in the draft..   

[Jet Nut]

11 hours ago, Dcat said:

there are a couple of others.  So what?  Then they are just as dumb as Woody Johnson and his stupid brother.  It's a horrendous way to run the organization and has failed every waking moment since Woody Johnson shoved it down the organization's throat.  F-ing dumb beyond comprehension.

It's such a tired old pointless thing to blame for our failures.  We struggle because Woody wanted to talk to Macc and Bowles both?  As opposed to Bowles speaking to Macc and Macc relaying it to Woody!  That's mindboggling, horrendous and dumb.  Who would ever be able to make this wirk.  Lol

Even dumber, are the two assumptions that go hand in hand with the lunatic fringe.  Macc's hands are tied, can't do a thing because Woody likes to be in contact with his HC.  Can you imagine.  And of course that means Macc and Bowles can't speak.  All those pics of them talking daily on the field is made up photo ops.  They can't talk.  

The second, that Chris runs things the same exact way as Woody, it's not something Woody wanted it's an inherited trait.  A trait passed on down through the Johnson family tree.  

[bla bla bla]

5 minutes ago, j4jets said:

Again, where is the progress? 10-6, 5-11, 5-11. We have no QB. Our strongest position is safeties. After that, I honestly can’t tell u which other department or position is our 2nd strongest. They’re all below average. Even our overrated DL is hardly average at best that makes no big plays EVER! I don’t see the improvement my friend unless u think we’ll do great with cap space and draft pick, which already took place 3 years ago and brought us here again...with the same FO. 

You must be joking? Please tell me you are trying to say that you'd rather the 2014 roster and offseason over where we currently stand. I say 2014 because that is the roster that Macc and Bowles were handed. You do realize the reason we signed older FAs that year is because we still had Harris, Mangold, Brick, and Pace under contract who all wanted to still win a Super Bowl. It would seem it makes sense to bring in players around their age so they can be motivated together and then when the time came, could be cut together to make way for a younger roster that Macc would have had the time to assemble.

 

Our secondary is leaps and bounds above that year. Our LBs are all much younger now, I'd take Jenkins now over Pace then, I'd take Demario now over Harris then, I do think Demario then was better than Lee now but I'd still take this unit because they are much younger and could still develop. Our DL consisted of Mo and Sheldon, if reports are true there could be a reunion and I'd consider Leo and Sheldon better than Mo and Sheldon. Harrison was great so we can call DL weaker, no issues there. Our OL is weaker but I don't think drastically so, Mangold vs Johnson is really the huge issue. I consider Carpenter and Colon comparable, Brick was a shell of his former self so I don't think Beachum is necessarily worse, I would take Shell over Giacomini, and Aboushi is part of the worst OL in the NFL. I would absolutely take ASJ over Amaro. For WR Decker and Harvin were both constantly injured although Decker was clearly a very good receiver. I would take Robby over Harvin outside of those two I think the WR scale leans towards 2017. For RB Ivory was a work horse and Powell complimented him well, I'd take that stable over ours now even though Ivory tipped our hand on offense since he couldn't catch a football. You are down to Geno vs McCown take your pick but I do like how the offense functioned with McCown as opposed to Geno.

 

I think this FA is far more loaded than 2015's was and I think there are far more that 2 QBs in the top 10 that we could take or trade up for. IMO we are in a much better state as a franchise heading into this offseason than we were heading into our first offseason under Macc and Bowles.

[j4jets]

2 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

You must be joking? Please tell me you are trying to say that you'd rather the 2014 roster and offseason over where we currently stand. I say 2014 because that is the roster that Macc and Bowles were handed. You do realize the reason we signed older FAs that year is because we still had Harris, Mangold, Brick, and Pace under contract who all wanted to still win a Super Bowl. It would seem it makes sense to bring in players around their age so they can be motivated together and then when the time came, could be cut together to make way for a younger roster that Macc would have had the time to assemble.

 

Our secondary is leaps and bounds above that year. Our LBs are all much younger now, I'd take Jenkins now over Pace then, I'd take Demario now over Harris then, I do think Demario then was better than Lee now but I'd still take this unit because they are much younger and could still develop. Our DL consisted of Mo and Sheldon, if reports are true there could be a reunion and I'd consider Leo and Sheldon better than Mo and Sheldon. Harrison was great so we can call DL weaker, no issues there. Our OL is weaker but I don't think drastically so, Mangold vs Johnson is really the huge issue. I consider Carpenter and Colon comparable, Brick was a shell of his former self so I don't think Beachum is necessarily worse, I would take Shell over Giacomini, and Aboushi is part of the worst OL in the NFL. I would absolutely take ASJ over Amaro. For WR Decker and Harvin were both constantly injured although Decker was clearly a very good receiver. I would take Robby over Harvin outside of those two I think the WR scale leans towards 2017. For RB Ivory was a work horse and Powell complimented him well, I'd take that stable over ours now even though Ivory tipped our hand on offense since he couldn't catch a football. You are down to Geno vs McCown take your pick but I do like how the offense functioned with McCown as opposed to Geno.

 

I think this FA is far more loaded than 2015's was and I think there are far more that 2 QBs in the top 10 that we could take or trade up for. IMO we are in a much better state as a franchise heading into this offseason than we were heading into our first offseason under Macc and Bowles.

Let’s see. 

I expect to have no QB returning in 2018 so there’s your QB situation

Powell is average at the very best. Forte is done. 

Our current OL isn’t anywhere close to 2015. Don’t let your green shades confuse u. 

Our WRs are average. Robby? Yeah he’s good. But Kearse? Meh. Who’s after him? 

We have no TE worth mentioning signed for 2018. Feel free to “take” whoever you like. 

Our DL is overrated. 

LBs corps is also overrated. Lee can’t cover or tackle. DD has been good. Jenkins? Another below average starter we love. 

Our secondary is the only strength. 

So yeah, it’s still a sh*tty roster and again, if you feel like we’ll turn it into gold with salary cap n picks, think again. Mac had the perfect roster to rebuild in 2015. Picks, salary cap etc. he failed. Failed again next year and again the year after. 

[jack48]

On 1/1/2018 at 11:10 AM, j4jets said:

Jets reached two AFCCGs with a 3rd string QB. Who’s job is it to bring a QB here? Certainly not the fans’. Headed to 4th off season under Mac and we most likely will have NO QBs under contract for 2018 by the time FA starts. 

Wanna know something funny? Mac is Tanny version 2.0. And you’ll see that when he jizzes all that cap space over average players this off season. 

jard to believe we have not been able to develop someone as "good" as Sanchez.

[bla bla bla]

4 hours ago, j4jets said:

Let’s see. 

I expect to have no QB returning in 2018 so there’s your QB situation

Powell is average at the very best. Forte is done. 

Our current OL isn’t anywhere close to 2015. Don’t let your green shades confuse u. 

Our WRs are average. Robby? Yeah he’s good. But Kearse? Meh. Who’s after him? 

We have no TE worth mentioning signed for 2018. Feel free to “take” whoever you like. 

Our DL is overrated. 

LBs corps is also overrated. Lee can’t cover or tackle. DD has been good. Jenkins? Another below average starter we love. 

Our secondary is the only strength. 

So yeah, it’s still a sh*tty roster and again, if you feel like we’ll turn it into gold with salary cap n picks, think again. Mac had the perfect roster to rebuild in 2015. Picks, salary cap etc. he failed. Failed again next year and again the year after. 

Genuinely stunned, we have so manny options to bring a QB in this year compared to year 1. I suppose I like the hope that youth brings as opposed to the old roster.

[joewilly12]

I hope Chris Johnson is watching NFL Play-off football and feels the same way every damn Jets fan feels. 

[joewilly12]

On this second day of the weekend NFL playoffs, let us give thanks to Chris Johnson. 

 

[Jetsfan80]

On 1/5/2018 at 1:57 PM, chirorob said:

You do that, or don't complain when they do whatever they can to keep their job.

Nope, no complaints to Bowles for doing what he felt he needed to do.  But the moment it became clear this was a non-playoff team, the tank should have been on, and that's on ownership/front office.  It shouldn't have come down to a McCown injury to finally make that happen.  

We have every right to complain about that aspect.  That's an organizational flaw, not a Bowles flaw.  

[NoBowles]

On 1/6/2018 at 2:02 AM, j4jets said:

Again, where is the progress? 10-6, 5-11, 5-11. We have no QB. Our strongest position is safeties. After that, I honestly can’t tell u which other department or position is our 2nd strongest. They’re all below average. Even our overrated DL is hardly average at best that makes no big plays EVER! I don’t see the improvement my friend unless u think we’ll do great with cap space and draft pick, which already took place 3 years ago and brought us here again...with the same FO. 

Who said anything about progress? Not me, I think both boobs should be fired.

but I do maintain I believe Woody insisted on the competitive rebuild in year 1, which was highly counterproductive and set us back z2 years.

coming off the Idzik fiasco and fans putting up billboards, I firmly believe it was Woodys mandate, he even tampered with Revis in the prior year. 

Even though that doesn’t fit certain “fans” agendas, I believe it to be true.

[BRONX DUDE]

On ‎1‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 8:22 AM, ECURB said:

Hard to win without a QB... See every team without one ever...

They were in the playoff hunt all year with Josh Mccown... Not an easy task

COME AGAIN PLEASE??? 

[Maxman]

21 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Nope, no complaints to Bowles for doing what he felt he needed to do.  But the moment it became clear this was a non-playoff team, the tank should have been on, and that's on ownership/front office.  It shouldn't have come down to a McCown injury to finally make that happen.  

We have every right to complain about that aspect.  That's an organizational flaw, not a Bowles flaw.  

Totally, totally agree.

They knew they were extending Bowles and Macc. Needed an organizational sit down that was wrapped around seeing every young kid play sooner. Petty should have played sooner. Hack should have played. The excuse was you can't pull Petty after only 2 games. That is fair. McCown should have been pulled sooner, making more time for the kids.

They would have failed and the Jets would probably be picking 4th. The only thing that really scares me about next year is the thought that they will bring McCown back. I hope they are smart enough to not entertain it. But I am scared.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Totally, totally agree.

They knew they were extending Bowles and Macc. Needed an organizational sit down that was wrapped around seeing every young kid play sooner. Petty should have played sooner. Hack should have played. The excuse was you can't pull Petty after only 2 games. That is fair. McCown should have been pulled sooner, making more time for the kids.

They would have failed and the Jets would probably be picking 4th. The only thing that really scares me about next year is the thought that they will bring McCown back. I hope they are smart enough to not entertain it. But I am scared.

It seems pretty clear to me that the owner never sits down for midseason meetings with the front office and HC.  When the GM and HC answer directly to the owner, that's imperative.  

[BRONX DUDE]

On ‎1‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 5:50 PM, Charlie Brown said:

Woody/Chris Johnson deserves criticism at times but what is essentially happening with the Jets now isn't their fault.

Coaches have to coach, GM has to Gm and players have to play it is as simple as that.....

Owner isn't putting bad QBs out there or drafting guys not willing to give effort; no, there are guys making money on these moves and they had better start producing results.

Or  else what is going go happen?

We are going to be awful for the next 25 years until the next"Bill Parcells" comes along to straighten things out.

[Maxman]

47 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It seems pretty clear to me that the owner never sits down for midseason meetings with the front office and HC.  When the GM and HC answer directly to the owner, that's imperative.  

They said Chris Johnson meeting with Woody and Bowles weekly. I think that though scares me more. Having them waste time on a fake elevator pitch that Chris Johnson can understand only seems to set things back.

It would be nice if Bowles and Macc were accountable to a football head of operations \ president though.

[j4jets]

5 hours ago, NoBowles said:

Who said anything about progress? Not me, I think both boobs should be fired.

but I do maintain I believe Woody insisted on the competitive rebuild in year 1, which was highly counterproductive and set us back z2 years.

coming off the Idzik fiasco and fans putting up billboards, I firmly believe it was Woodys mandate, he even tampered with Revis in the prior year. 

Even though that doesn’t fit certain “fans” agendas, I believe it to be true.

Competitive rebuild should t put your team 2 years behind if you did a good job of the rebuild. Starts with drafting. Besides Leo falling in his lap, his 2015 draft was Idzik level. In 2016, he drafted Lee, who’s barely been average at best. Jenkins n Shell are are dime a dozen type players, although some Jets fans think they are homerun hits. Hack? Burris? Peake? Punter?

Competitive rebuild wasn’t what put us behind. It was Mac’s garbage drafting. I don’t give Mac any credit for the Leo drafting. Outside of that, his only other good draft pick was Maye in the 2nd. Nothing outstanding about a 6th overall pick safety that didn’t have a single impact play (int, fumble, game changing tackle) the entire year. If Adam was a 2nd round pick, I would say it was a good pick. NOT at #6.

Again, I don’t blame the ownership for where we are today. I blame the GM. I do blame the ownership for the nonsense extension. That will surely put us back a few years when Mac pisses away the entire cap on three over-the-hill, average-at-best vets and claims yet another competitive rebuild. Nothing worst could’ve happened to the Jets outside of the Idzik/Mac trash we hired. Exec of the year? Trollololololol

[NoBowles]

7 hours ago, j4jets said:

Competitive rebuild should t put your team 2 years behind if you did a good job of the rebuild. Starts with drafting. Besides Leo falling in his lap, his 2015 draft was Idzik level. In 2016, he drafted Lee, who’s barely been average at best. Jenkins n Shell are are dime a dozen type players, although some Jets fans think they are homerun hits. Hack? Burris? Peake? Punter?

Competitive rebuild wasn’t what put us behind. It was Mac’s garbage drafting. I don’t give Mac any credit for the Leo drafting. Outside of that, his only other good draft pick was Maye in the 2nd. Nothing outstanding about a 6th overall pick safety that didn’t have a single impact play (int, fumble, game changing tackle) the entire year. If Adam was a 2nd round pick, I would say it was a good pick. NOT at #6.

Again, I don’t blame the ownership for where we are today. I blame the GM. I do blame the ownership for the nonsense extension. That will surely put us back a few years when Mac pisses away the entire cap on three over-the-hill, average-at-best vets and claims yet another competitive rebuild. Nothing worst could’ve happened to the Jets outside of the Idzik/Mac trash we hired. Exec of the year? Trollololololol

I don't disagree with anything yo are saying about drafting or Mac, and as I said I believe both he and Bowles should be fired.

My blame for Woody is becasue I think his power structure allows him to meddle in places he has no business doing so, and it also sets up a scenario where its hard to pinpoint accountability. For example, all indications I got was that it was Bowles who was all about Fitz, and Mac signed him. Bowles wanted Lee, he got him. Who do you think was more responsible for the 2 safety strategy, Bowles or Mac? My personal opinion is the power structure has it setup so that Mac is getting Bowles the personnel that Bowles wants. That is what I blame on Woody. 

I also firmly believe that successful organizations have a plan in place, which ties together the drafts, the player development, the overarching strategy. I blame Woody for not setting up the Jets properly. Are the players being developed properly? I don't know, but I don't have a lot of faith that they are.

It all starts at the top. Replacing Maccagnan with another Woody puppet who drafts and signs for Bowles fixing nothing IMO.

[j4jets]

7 hours ago, NoBowles said:

I don't disagree with anything yo are saying about drafting or Mac, and as I said I believe both he and Bowles should be fired.

My blame for Woody is becasue I think his power structure allows him to meddle in places he has no business doing so, and it also sets up a scenario where its hard to pinpoint accountability. For example, all indications I got was that it was Bowles who was all about Fitz, and Mac signed him. Bowles wanted Lee, he got him. Who do you think was more responsible for the 2 safety strategy, Bowles or Mac? My personal opinion is the power structure has it setup so that Mac is getting Bowles the personnel that Bowles wants. That is what I blame on Woody. 

I also firmly believe that successful organizations have a plan in place, which ties together the drafts, the player development, the overarching strategy. I blame Woody for not setting up the Jets properly. Are the players being developed properly? I don't know, but I don't have a lot of faith that they are.

It all starts at the top. Replacing Maccagnan with another Woody puppet who drafts and signs for Bowles fixing nothing IMO.

I won't say Woody isn't to blame for anything. But GMs and HCs have to be on the same page during the draft. So if Bowles pushed for Lee, and Mac agreed to it, its on both. Not one. 

[NoBowles]

Just now, j4jets said:

I won't say Woody isn't to blame for anything. But GMs and HCs have to be on the same page during the draft. So if Bowles pushed for Lee, and Mac agreed to it, its on both. Not one. 

Agree, which is why they both should be fired, or at a bare min both should be reporting to a head of football ops type czar.

[Sperm Edwards]

On 1/7/2018 at 8:17 PM, Maxman said:

Totally, totally agree.

They knew they were extending Bowles and Macc. Needed an organizational sit down that was wrapped around seeing every young kid play sooner. Petty should have played sooner. Hack should have played. The excuse was you can't pull Petty after only 2 games. That is fair. McCown should have been pulled sooner, making more time for the kids.

They would have failed and the Jets would probably be picking 4th. The only thing that really scares me about next year is the thought that they will bring McCown back. I hope they are smart enough to not entertain it. But I am scared.

McCown shouldn't have been here in the first place.

From everything we've heard, the team looked up to McCown (and I'll wager a guess they didn't look up to either of Petty/Hackenberg). Also it was apparent to any player or coach associated with the team McCown was a legitimate NFL QB and the next-best between the other two was not.

That's an impossible scenario for a HC - even a bad one like Bowles - and it's easy for any of us to sit here behind our keyboards, and effectively declare he should have purposely lost the locker room (right on the heels of 2016...when he allegedly lost the locker room). After an "organizational sit down" it'd then look like Bowles doesn't get to choose who plays; that decision comes from the GM and/or owner. People already complain over unsubstantiated claims the owner is micromanaging the team, so I don't see how the solution is then for the owner to micromanage the team to the point of forcing a starter onto a team that knows neither of the other two can play.

If you don't want to see Josh McCown starting over a dozen games ahead of the 2 QBs the GM has drafted, then you don't put him on the roster unless at least 1 of the two has shown he's the real deal already and McCown is QB injury insurance not QB skill insurance. You don't sign him in the first place...or you do a better job of bringing in non-McCown QB talent than Petty, Hackenberg, and Fitzpatrick.