Josh Allen

[Pcola]

11 hours ago, Philc1 said:

It’s just silly.  Allen was basically playing on Div II roster and people think the completion percentage was ENTIRELY his fault. How did Allen do when he played at the senior bowl with guys who actually are going to be in the NFL? Allen killed it

He was the third best QB in that game.  If you go by the Senior Bowl, Lauletta and Mike White are first rounders.

[Rexorcism]

He was the third best QB in that game.  If you go by the Senior Bowl, Lauletta and Mike White are first rounders.

Lauletta looked like a player

[Pcola]

10 minutes ago, Jazy8ball said:

huh? I'm not saying these guys are better then nfl GM and scouts. But guys like McShay, Kiper and Mayock know a lot more about you and I about evaluating potential in a college quarterback. They seem to think Allen will be pretty good. I trust them more then the casual fan. I am not saying you are the casual fan, you could work in the nfl and know more that anyone for all i know. 

McShay, Kiper, And Mayock project busts high in the draft each year.  The difference is they aren’t getting fired for being wrong.

FWIW Mayock’s top QB last year was Kizer.  Over Trubisky, Watson, and Mahomes.

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

Watson and Mahomes were better prospects than Allen last year and Mac passed on both at 6, so taking Allen at 3 this year would take some serious explaining or a miracle

[Jazy8ball]

3 minutes ago, Pcola said:

McShay, Kiper, And Mayock project busts high in the draft each year.  The difference is they aren’t getting fired for being wrong.

FWIW Mayock’s top QB last year was Kizer.  Over Trubisky, Watson, and Mahomes.

oh i agree its a gamble. Any of the top 4 this year can be busts. I think Allen will be better than Kizer, Trubisky and Mahomes. I also didn't think Watson would be this good. 

[Sonny Werblin]

42 minutes ago, Jazy8ball said:

huh? I'm not saying these guys are better then nfl GM and scouts. But guys like McShay, Kiper and Mayock know a lot more about you and I about evaluating potential in a college quarterback. They seem to think Allen will be pretty good. I trust them more then the casual fan. I am not saying you are the casual fan, you could work in the nfl and know more that anyone for all i know. 

None of them say he will be pretty good. They all say he has the physical makeup to be very good, but only if he fixes his accuracy issue. They say this because 6'5" guys with rocket arms, and an athletes body don't come along very often. Last guy with Allen's type of skills and attributes was Cam Newton. He went #1 (I think) but still struggles with accuracy. 

[Jazy8ball]

1 minute ago, Sonny Werblin said:

None of them he will be pretty good. They all say he has the physical makeup to be very good, but only if he fixes his accuracy issue. They say this because 6'5" guys with rocket arms, and an athletes body don't come along very often. Last guy with Allen's type of skills and attributes was Cam Newton. He went #1 (I think) but still struggles with accuracy. 

So would you be ok will Allen if he turns out to be equal to Cam? I mean football skill not personality

[dbatesman]

38 minutes ago, Jazy8ball said:

But guys like McShay, Kiper and Mayock know a lot more about you and I about evaluating potential in a college quarterback. 

no

[Sonny Werblin]

Just now, Jazy8ball said:

So would you be ok will Allen if he turns out to be equal to Cam? I mean football skill not personality

I'd rather have Rosen or Darnold, and I think Mayfield is a surer bet than Allen, but yeah if Allen turns out to be as good as Cam Newton, that would be a favorable outcome. But, the ceiling for Allen is .... think of Elway and Marino as one guy.... and the floor is Jamarcus Russel.  On the other hand, Mayfield'd floor (I think) is Jeff Garcia and his ceiling is Drew Brees. I view Mayfield as a far less risky pick than Allen, which is why I would take Mayfiled is both Darnold and Rosen were already taken.

I also believe Mayfield will survive in the NY Media, while it may kill a quiet nice kid like Allen.

[Jazy8ball]

3 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

no

awesome.. So what is your analysis on the top 3? 

[CTM]

33 minutes ago, Rexorcism said:

Lauletta looked like a player

I like this kid

[artemusclyde]

5 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Good thing for the Jets is that Hackenberg’s accuracy issues were mechanical and they’re almost fixed, I’m sure. 

Guy who probably never watched either of them play in college, compares them to one another. Like clockwork. Oh well, I'll make sure to come back and bump this topic when Allen is tearing it up in the league. I remember the last qb's I argued about on this board, Mariota and Carr getting absolutely sh*t on by people on this board including guys like T0mshane. Who knows maybe after all those misses they'll be right about a qb this time. 

[dbatesman]

1 minute ago, Jazy8ball said:

awesome.. So what is your analysis on the top 3? 

Josh Allen blows goats

[Gangrene]

Josh Allen Talks Up the New York Jets   Alex Marvez (Sporting News)

Updated at 10:07 a.m. ET

 

Josh Allen will be showcased as a player — not an analyst — at the 2018 NFL Draft.

That didn't keep the Wyoming quarterback from channeling his inner Mike Mayock when asked about last weekend's trade executed to help the Jets finally land a franchise quarterback.

 

Gang Green hopped three spots to No. 3 overall in a stunning deal with the Colts. The impetus was to foil the recent attempts of another QB-needy team — the Bills — to climb ahead of New York along the draft ladder.

"If (the Jets) find a guy they fall in love with, I think that's a team's job to go get them if they feel that's the future of their program," Allen told co-host Gil Brandt and me on SiriusXM NFL Radio. "They only traded three second-round picks for it …"

Only???

"To keep their first-round pick next year was pretty big," Allen explained. "Sometimes, it takes another first-round pick (to move up).

"Luckily for them, they didn't have to do that. I think they've still got some good quality there."

The Jets should love Allen's take if he's indeed the Big Apple of their eye.

The big-city arrival of a California farm boy via (Wyoming) Cowboy country is an even stronger possibility now, provided:

1: Allen isn't chosen first overall by the Browns or targeted as Eli Manning's heir apparent with the Giants at No. 2.
2: The Browns and/or Giants don't trade out of their respective slots with teams seeking QBs. The Broncos and Bills are the most likely candidates but such moves currently seem unlikely (at best).
3: Allen is preferred over other members of this year's "Big Four" QB class: USC's Sam Darnold, UCLA's Josh Rosen and Oklahoma's Baker Mayfield.

The evaluation process to help create separation between the quartet continues Friday at Wyoming's Pro Day.

Although he won't participate in any of the running or jumping drills after posting impressive scores earlier this month at the NFL Combine, Allen will run a scripted series of passes that he says are designed to "showcase your talent and ability and also improvement that you made over the offseason."

Allen said he will be bringing the wide receivers he has prepped with the past two weeks in Southern California to the Wyoming campus because the school doesn't have any senior receivers for him to throw with, which is the customary protocol among QB prospects from bigger programs.

"It should demonstrate every type of throw," Allen said of his script. "I'm looking forward to Friday for sure."

The same goes for interested suitors in attendance to see Allen do more than showcase arm talent in aerial displays that will include an attempt to support a recent claim to an NFL scout that he could throw an 82-yard pass in the air ["I guess we'll kind of find out on Friday," Allen said.]

Allen expects meetings with teams around his Pro Day will be an extension of Combine interviews that he separated into two categories.

Allen considered one group of the get-to-know-you variety because those clubs didn't have much if any interaction with him in January at the Reese's Senior Bowl.

The other peppered him with more Xs-and-Os questions designed to see whether Allen's smarts match up with his prototype 6-5, 237-pound size and break-any-plate-at-the-carnival-no-matter-how-much-it's-rigged arm strength.

"My schedule is pretty jam-packed meeting with quite a bit of teams," Allen said. "They want to come to Laramie and get to know who I am. I'm sitting down at dinner with a few (unidentified) teams.

"Obviously they've all seen me throw the past couple of months and throughout my collegiate career, but Pro Day is just one thing more to check off the box."

So is dispelling concerns about his accuracy, which is one of the biggest knocks on Allen after he failed to complete better than 57 percent of his passes during two seasons as a Cowboys starter before turning pro early.

Allen said he has improved through several months of predraft work with QB coach (and NFL reserve) Jordan Palmer.

 

Allen isn't the only highly touted QB that Palmer is training, which actually has an ancillary benefit to the former. Darnold and Allen have become close by going through a shared experience while pushing each other on the field.

"As person, he's just really down to earth and really cool," Allen said of Darnold. "I don't have a bad thing to say about Sam. We've been living together the last couple of months and he's become a really good friend of mine.

"When you see him throw, he's as consistent as anybody out there. He rarely has a bad day. He rarely misses. It's been impressive to see him handle that aspect and actually get out there and compete with him every day. It's been really fun."

Allen calls it "a friendly rivalry."

"I'm sure we made each other better," he said.

And as he points out, the Jets feel they did the same with what may not be the last bold move to secure a marquee passer like Allen on April 26.

[CTM]

26 minutes ago, Jazy8ball said:

oh i agree its a gamble. Any of the top 4 this year can be busts. I think Allen will be better than Kizer, Trubisky and Mahomes. I also didn't think Watson would be this good. 

Is it though? There's a long history of guys who fit Josh Allen's statistical profile not making it in the NFL. Implying it's a gamble makes it sound like throwing darts at a dart board, it's not.  

2016 Qbase ranked the prospects like the below, it's pretty damn accurate outside of Wentz far exceeding his projection (which I'd like to see a few more years ) but in terms of carving out the guys you absolutely should not take it seems to have done a good job

Goff 70% chance of becoming at least  an adequate starter

Prescott  45% chance

Wentz 38% chance 

Lynch 32%

Connor Cook 22%

Hack 19%

[Mogglez]

2 hours ago, Jazy8ball said:

That is your opinion. Fortunately for the Jets it does not seem to be an opinion shared by people that evaluate quarterback talent for a living.  

Yeah.  It's so fortunate for the Jets that the guy who said he'd outright quit his job if he was wrong about Jimmy Clausen (spoiler alert: he was wrong about Jimmy Clausen and he  hasn't quit his job) has Josh Allen as his number 1 QB.

It's so fortunate for the Jets that they just traded three 2nd round picks to potentially draft a carbon copy of the guy they couldn't "fix" enough to see the field in 2 years, only this time with a top 3 pick so the impact the selection will have on our future is far more massive.

Fortunately?  Boy, this should be a really fun discussion to revisit in three years when the guys who have convinced themselves that the Jets couldn't possibly be this incompetent so Allen must, actually, be good, realize that "oh dang, this regime really is that bad at evaluating QBs".  Hopefully by then they're not still making excuses for Kyle Boller 2.0.

[Pcola]

7 minutes ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Watson and Mahomes were better prospects than Allen last year and Mac passed on both at 6, so taking Allen at 3 this year would take some serious explaining or a miracle

And I am not convinced we have the right coaching and system in place for Allen to be successful.  

Bates, for all his smarts, is light in the experience department and what little experience he does have calling plays, was a very long time ago.

I think Allen might do well in Cle with Todd Haley’s offense. Where ever he goes, the organization and fans will need a ton of patience.  Does that sound like the Jets?  Specially after waiting for two years of being patient with Hack?

[CTM]

3 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Yeah.  It's so fortunate for the Jets that the guy who said he'd outright quit his job if he was wrong about Jimmy Clausen (spoiler alert: he was wrong about Jimmy Clausen and he  hasn't quit his job) has Josh Allen as his number 1 QB.

It's so fortunate for the Jets that they just traded three 2nd round picks to potentially draft a carbon copy of the guy they couldn't "fix" enough to see the field in 2 years, only this time with a top 3 pick so the impact the selection will have on our future is far more massive.

Fortunately?  Boy, this should be a really fun discussion to revisit in three years when the guys who have convinced themselves that the Jets couldn't possibly be this incompetent so Allen must, actually, be good, realize that "oh dang, this regime really is that bad at evaluating QBs".  Hopefully by then they're not still making excuses for Kyle Boller 2.0.

Yep.

Year #4

- Losing record

- Starting rebuild #2

- Not found a QB and whiffed on 2 draft picks

Conclusion - We should implicitly trust their judgement on Allen

[Mogglez]

2 minutes ago, CTM said:

Yep.

Year #4

- Losing record

- Starting rebuild #2

- Not found a QB and whiffed on 2 draft picks

Conclusion - We should implicitly trust their judgement on Allen

If Allen somehow is the pick, I just don't think I can bring myself to even bother cheering him on.  I have never been so strongly against drafting another player in my entire life.  If they traded up only to get Josh Allen, I'm most likely out on professional football for the foreseeable future.   I just won't be able to bring myself to care.  I know they're wrong about the kid and I'm not going to torture myself watching them slowly and painfully realize it.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Mogglez said:

If Allen somehow is the pick, I just don't think I can bring myself to even bother cheering him on.  I have never been so strongly against drafting another player in my entire life.  If they traded up only to get Josh Allen, I'm most likely out on professional football for the foreseeable future.   I just won't be able to bring myself to care.  I know they're wrong about the kid and I'm not going to torture myself watching them slowly and painfully realize it.

Funny thing is, if Allen were mayfield's height he'd be an udfa. 

[Mogglez]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

Funny thing is, if Allen were mayfield's height he'd be an udfa. 

Yup.

[CTM]

2 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

If Allen somehow is the pick, I just don't think I can bring myself to even bother cheering him on.  I have never been so strongly against drafting another player in my entire life.  If they traded up only to get Josh Allen, I'm most likely out on professional football for the foreseeable future.   I just won't be able to bring myself to care.  I know they're wrong about the kid and I'm not going to torture myself watching them slowly and painfully realize it.

This whole trade just looks to me like they are targeting either Allen or Mayfield and maybe hope for the potential upside that one of the top 2 will fall. I too worry that player is Allen.

[CTM]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

Funny thing is, if Allen were mayfield's height he'd be an udfa. 

yup

[Paradis]

On 3/19/2018 at 7:57 AM, Sonny Werblin said:

I've watched them all. And my criticism is that he is a project. You don't trade into the #3 spot for a project QB. I want Rosen or Darnold, but if it comes down to Allen or Mayfield, I'd prefer Baker -- I think he has a better chance of overcoming 1.625 inches than Allen has at becoming an instinctual thrower. I just don't think you learn the stuff that is Allen's shortcoming i.e. accuracy, timing and touch. They are innate. You can improve them, but only marginally.

All that said, what do I know!? After watching him in the Rose Bowl, I was convinced that Ryan Leaf would be a better pro than Peyton Manning.

There's no tangible reason why Josh Allen should be a top 10 pick. He's debateably not even a 1st round QB. That said, it's not like he's total trash. He's just being over-billed by draft media. All the signature traits of a guy who's game is tapped out at the college level are there. Does that guarantee he's going to suck? No, but it's significant risk. Significant. 

[Paradis]

2 minutes ago, CTM said:

This whole trade just looks to me like they are targeting either Allen or Mayfield and maybe hope for the potential upside that one of the top 2 will fall. I too worry that player is Allen.

I don't see that at all. 

Darnold is likely going #1. Everything in NYG projects a hard look at Barkley or Nelson. Securing #3 likely gets you Rosen, but if the off chance he's gone, you've got Mayfield right there who is a clear 1b... You don't trade up for Allen. 

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, Jazy8ball said:

huh? I'm not saying these guys are better then nfl GM and scouts. But guys like McShay, Kiper and Mayock know a lot more about you and I about evaluating potential in a college quarterback. They seem to think Allen will be pretty good. I trust them more then the casual fan. I am not saying you are the casual fan, you could work in the nfl and know more that anyone for all i know. 

See right here, you guys are arguing with someone who's taking his cues from peanut gallery. Why bother with the real estate? 

[JustInFudge]

6 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

If Allen somehow is the pick, I just don't think I can bring myself to even bother cheering him on.  I have never been so strongly against drafting another player in my entire life.  If they traded up only to get Josh Allen, I'm most likely out on professional football for the foreseeable future.   I just won't be able to bring myself to care.  I know they're wrong about the kid and I'm not going to torture myself watching them slowly and painfully realize it.

This is how I felt about passing on Watson.  Still watched every single game.

[Sonny Werblin]

The poll on this thread has been pretty consistently at around 65% for "**** no". I would presume that not all of the "**** no's" are in favor of Mayfield over Allen with some number of people favoring a position player or maybe Jackson. I wonder what the poll would be if it assumed Darnold and Rosen were off the board and the choice was between the remaining QB's and the top position players?

[Sonny Werblin]

27 minutes ago, Paradis said:

I don't see that at all. 

Darnold is likely going #1. Everything in NYG projects a hard look at Barkley or Nelson. Securing #3 likely gets you Rosen, but if the off chance he's gone, you've got Mayfield right there who is a clear 1b... You don't trade up for Allen. 

From your keyboard to Mac's ears.... hopefully.

[Jazy8ball]

52 minutes ago, CTM said:

Is it though? There's a long history of guys who fit Josh Allen's statistical profile not making it in the NFL. Implying it's a gamble makes it sound like throwing darts at a dart board, it's not.  

2016 Qbase ranked the prospects like the below, it's pretty damn accurate outside of Wentz far exceeding his projection (which I'd like to see a few more years ) but in terms of carving out the guys you absolutely should not take it seems to have done a good job

Goff 70% chance of becoming at least  an adequate starter

Prescott  45% chance

Wentz 38% chance 

Lynch 32%

Connor Cook 22%

Hack 19%

Interesting.. I assume if they had these stats out for this years guys you would of added that.. when do they come out?

[CTM]

Just now, Jazy8ball said:

Interesting.. I assume if they had these stats out for this years guys you would of added that.. when do they come out?

Should be out in a few weeks. Expect them to predict Allen as a likely bust

[Jazy8ball]

53 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Yeah.  It's so fortunate for the Jets that the guy who said he'd outright quit his job if he was wrong about Jimmy Clausen (spoiler alert: he was wrong about Jimmy Clausen and he  hasn't quit his job) has Josh Allen as his number 1 QB.

It's so fortunate for the Jets that they just traded three 2nd round picks to potentially draft a carbon copy of the guy they couldn't "fix" enough to see the field in 2 years, only this time with a top 3 pick so the impact the selection will have on our future is far more massive.

Fortunately?  Boy, this should be a really fun discussion to revisit in three years when the guys who have convinced themselves that the Jets couldn't possibly be this incompetent so Allen must, actually, be good, realize that "oh dang, this regime really is that bad at evaluating QBs".  Hopefully by then they're not still making excuses for Kyle Boller 2.0.

You honestly believe that Hack and Allen are comparable? 

I am not saying you're wrong on Allen.. Because any of the 3 can be busts, or all of them. 

[Jazy8ball]

30 minutes ago, Paradis said:

See right here, you guys are arguing with someone who's taking his cues from peanut gallery. Why bother with the real estate? 

Hahaha..

First, i'm not arguing. I am having a discussion about drafting a QB. I seriously doubt that you or anyone else on this page put more time into critiquing football players then the guys I mentioned. I realize they make mistakes, everyone does.. If you think you are more qualified then the "peanut gallery" lets hear your resume.. 

[Jazy8ball]

6 minutes ago, CTM said:

Should be out in a few weeks. Expect them to predict Allen as a likely bust

Cool thanks.. will you post please when they do? 

[SenorGato]

9 minutes ago, Jazy8ball said:

Cool thanks.. will you post please when they do? 

Rest assured they will be posted