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Josh Allen

T0mShane

By T0mShane
in NY Jets Forum

Josh Allen   

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  1. 1. Your thoughts on Josh Allen


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Beerfish

Beerfish

Posted
Posted

After Darnold and Rosen go one, two the jets are going to draft a slightly better version of christian hackenburg except instead of using the 51st pick in the draft we will be using the 3rd pick in the draft and tossing in three 2nd rounders to boot.

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morny

morny

Posted
Posted

I think he will take a lot of development, and there is legit question marks over him as a pro. I'd much prefer we took Mayfield (or Darnold or Rosen, but I'm assuming they'r both gone in this example). 

That said, if we take him at 3, even though I think he's a (big) reach - I'll be all in on supporting him, and I'll be looking forward to him coming in and seeing how he does. For 2 reasons

(1) I don't think it does him any good to be constantly against him from the start, regardless of what people think of the pick. An excited, welcoming atmosphere would go a long way to aiding his development. 

(2) I'm too tired to be negative, I just want to be excited and look forward to the potential of our new QB. I'm a strong believer in enjoying being a supporter, and therefore I want to try and enjoy the moments where we have things to legitimately look forward to. 

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Dcat

Dcat

Posted
Posted

can't really vote unless I know what my choices are. I think this covers most of the 2-QB combinations assuming it comes down to a 2 QB choice:

Allen vs Darnold: Darnold

Allen vs Rosen: Rosen

Allen vs Mayfield: the most likely scenario for Mac. Toughest decision of all 6.  I lean toward Mayfield.  I can't get over the how Allen struggles on short/midrange passes.  

Mayfield vs Darnold: Darnold

Mayfield vs Rosen: Rosen

Rosen vs Darnold:  least likely scenario but baby if this is the choice it would be incredible.  I lean towards Darnold but couldn't begin to defend myself if I tried.

3-way combinations are much easier:

Darnold, Mayfield, or Allen: Darnold

Darnold, Mayfield or Rosen: Darnold

Darnold, Allen or Rosen: Darnold

Rosen, Allen, or Mayfield: Rosen (this is the most likely 3-way QB choice scenario)

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Philc1

Philc1

Posted
Posted

For all the people killing Allen because of his completion percentage Jay cutler had a similar completion percentage playing with nobodies at vanderbilt

 

a part of completion percentage is the receiver actually catching the ball

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Philc1

Philc1

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

Can anyone share what he does well. Any good YouTube video breakdowns of why the team around him was at fault? Trying to learn a little more then just that he’s got one hell of an arm. 

Played in a pro style offensem, not just a great arm but also mobile and ideal size, played very well at the senior bowl

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joewilly12

joewilly12

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

For all the people killing Allen because of his completion percentage Jay cutler had a similar completion percentage playing with nobodies at vanderbilt

 

a part of completion percentage is the receiver actually catching the ball

Jay Cutler sucks. 

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Beerfish

Beerfish

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, morny said:

I think he will take a lot of development, and there is legit question marks over him as a pro. I'd much prefer we took Mayfield (or Darnold or Rosen, but I'm assuming they'r both gone in this example). 

That said, if we take him at 3, even though I think he's a (big) reach - I'll be all in on supporting him, and I'll be looking forward to him coming in and seeing how he does. For 2 reasons

(1) I don't think it does him any good to be constantly against him from the start, regardless of what people think of the pick. An excited, welcoming atmosphere would go a long way to aiding his development. 

(2) I'm too tired to be negative, I just want to be excited and look forward to the potential of our new QB. I'm a strong believer in enjoying being a supporter, and therefore I want to try and enjoy the moments where we have things to legitimately look forward to. 

If he shows anything people will not be against him.  Even if his early play has errors as long as he shows something great people will give him a chance.  Hackenburg was buried because he showed nothing from day one.

The other big factor is that the jets showed with how they handle petty and hack they have no clue in the world how to develop a qb.  Todd bowles will be like john fox and jeff fisher in how they handle the QB.

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morny

morny

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

If he shows anything people will not be against him.  Even if his early play has errors as long as he shows something great people will give him a chance.  Hackenburg was buried because he showed nothing from day one.

The other big factor is that the jets showed with how they handle petty and hack they have no clue in the world how to develop a qb.  Todd bowles will be like john fox and jeff fisher in how they handle the QB.

Yeah, I agree about the development thing, that's a big concern. I'm hoping that Bates is really the savant he is being built into and can take Allen (if it's him) and make him something great. 

Fwiw he just doesn't seem a great fit for what we're trying to do, a West Coast offence with dink and dunking. From the stuff I've seen and read of him, he seems more like an old school big armed guy, and is iffy on the short range stuff. This is why Mayfield would make more sense. 

The way everyone was talking at the combine, we loved Mayfield and properly fell for him. I hope it isn't a case that we liked him at the combine, loved his interview but then are letting doubts about his size etc... creep in and then talking ourselves into a 'prototype'. 

 

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jetstream23

jetstream23

Posted
Posted

Is there a private workout being scheduled with Allen by the Jets?  If so, that could be the event where he either places himself ahead or behind Mayfield as the Jets's 3rd choice.

Also, how do those private workouts go?  Can the team request specific throws, utilize their own WRs, setup certain scenarios to test his decision-making and short/intermediate accuracy?

Wouldn't it be fun to design a workout to test Josh Allen (or any of these guys) with an emphasis on perceived weaknesses?

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Philc1

Philc1

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

If he shows anything people will not be against him.  Even if his early play has errors as long as he shows something great people will give him a chance.  Hackenburg was buried because he showed nothing from day one.

The other big factor is that the jets showed with how they handle petty and hack they have no clue in the world how to develop a qb.  Todd bowles will be like john fox and jeff fisher in how they handle the QB.

A bigger concern than coaching is we have nothing at WR and TE  currently 

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Dcat

Dcat

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

For all the people killing Allen because of his completion percentage Jay cutler had a similar completion percentage playing with nobodies at vanderbilt

 

a part of completion percentage is the receiver actually catching the ball

Brian Billick on his mistake selecting Kyle Boller:

For these three, the qualifiers were very specific. With Palmer, people were worried about his leadership ability. He did not seem to have a lot of the personal charisma that you normally associate with a quarterback. Although he was a bright and intelligent young man, you came out of the interview not real fired up about him as a leader. Such was not the case with the next two. Leftwich and Boller had energy and leadership ability in spades. The concerns with Leftwich were his previous injuries and lack of mobility in the pocket. For Boller it was his accuracy.

With Boller, we decided that the lack of quality receivers at Cal was a significant part of the reason for his lack of accuracy.

Eventually, we were able to secure the New England Patriots' first-round pick, the 19th overall, which we used to take Boller. Within a couple of years, we learned that Boller's inaccuracy was not solely a result of the poor receivers at Cal, but also Kyle's occasional nervousness in the pocket, which forced his fundamentals to falter at critical times, and has left him a sub-60 percent completion guy thus far in his career.

 

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MDL_JET

MDL_JET

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Dcat said:

Brian Billick on his mistake selecting Kyle Boller:

For these three, the qualifiers were very specific. With Palmer, people were worried about his leadership ability. He did not seem to have a lot of the personal charisma that you normally associate with a quarterback. Although he was a bright and intelligent young man, you came out of the interview not real fired up about him as a leader. Such was not the case with the next two. Leftwich and Boller had energy and leadership ability in spades. The concerns with Leftwich were his previous injuries and lack of mobility in the pocket. For Boller it was his accuracy.

With Boller, we decided that the lack of quality receivers at Cal was a significant part of the reason for his lack of accuracy.

Eventually, we were able to secure the New England Patriots' first-round pick, the 19th overall, which we used to take Boller. Within a couple of years, we learned that Boller's inaccuracy was not solely a result of the poor receivers at Cal, but also Kyle's occasional nervousness in the pocket, which forced his fundamentals to falter at critical times, and has left him a sub-60 percent completion guy thus far in his career.

 

Can you forward this to Mac ASAP? Thanks. 

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Persiussa

Persiussa

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

For all the people killing Allen because of his completion percentage Jay cutler had a similar completion percentage playing with nobodies at vanderbilt

 

a part of completion percentage is the receiver actually catching the ball

Matthew Stafford had under 60% too for 2 out of 3 years. His senior season was 61.5%. 

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Untouchable

Untouchable

Posted
Posted

Let’s be real here, chances are pretty damn slim that either Darnold or Rosen will be available at #3.

So what do you do? Draft the 6’0 QB who comes from a gimmicky offense and has legit maturity questions...or take the 6’5 240 QB who comes equipped with a goddamn howitzer and 4.7 speed but has some accuracy and ball placement issues?

Like I said, all of these guys are gambles.

Might as well gamble on the one with the highest upside. And make no mistake, Josh Allen’s ceiling is a helluva lot higher than Baker Mayfield’s.

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Philc1

Philc1

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Brian Billick on his mistake selecting Kyle Boller:

For these three, the qualifiers were very specific. With Palmer, people were worried about his leadership ability. He did not seem to have a lot of the personal charisma that you normally associate with a quarterback. Although he was a bright and intelligent young man, you came out of the interview not real fired up about him as a leader. Such was not the case with the next two. Leftwich and Boller had energy and leadership ability in spades. The concerns with Leftwich were his previous injuries and lack of mobility in the pocket. For Boller it was his accuracy.

With Boller, we decided that the lack of quality receivers at Cal was a significant part of the reason for his lack of accuracy.

Eventually, we were able to secure the New England Patriots' first-round pick, the 19th overall, which we used to take Boller. Within a couple of years, we learned that Boller's inaccuracy was not solely a result of the poor receivers at Cal, but also Kyle's occasional nervousness in the pocket, which forced his fundamentals to falter at critical times, and has left him a sub-60 percent completion guy thus far in his career.

 

Hey list me the big 12 qbs from the last 15+ years who were actually good in the nfl

 

I’ll hang up and listen

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jetstream23

jetstream23

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

If he shows anything people will not be against him.  Even if his early play has errors as long as he shows something great people will give him a chance.  Hackenburg was buried because he showed nothing from day one.

The other big factor is that the jets showed with how they handle petty and hack they have no clue in the world how to develop a qb.  Todd bowles will be like john fox and jeff fisher in how they handle the QB.

That's the scariest part of all this.  The Jets need the most developed / pro ready QB available at #3.  If they need to teach and develop a QB prospect (even a physically gifted one like Allen) then my confidence in this working out longterm drops like a rock.  In terms of pure readiness (guys who required the least development) I think it's Rosen, Mayfield, Darnold, then Allen.  

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Dcat

Dcat

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

Hey list me the big 12 qbs from the last 15+ years who were actually good in the nfl

 

I’ll hang up and listen

how about responding to the actual content in the post?  Same ol' Phil.

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Philc1

Philc1

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Untouchable said:

Let’s be real here, chances are pretty damn slim that either Darnold or Rosen will be available at #3.

So what do you do? Draft the 6’0 QB who comes from a gimmicky offense and has legit maturity questions...or take the 6’5 240 QB who comes equipped with a goddamn howitzer and 4.7 speed but has some accuracy and ball placement issues?

Like I said, all of these guys are gambles.

Might as well gamble on the one with the highest upside. And make no mistake, Josh Allen’s ceiling is a helluva lot higher than Baker Mayfield’s.

We may end up with Rosen.  I actually think Allen makes sense for the giants can you imagine him throwing downfield to OBJ?

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Philc1

Philc1

Posted
Posted
Just now, Dcat said:

how about responding to the actual content in the post?  Same ol' Phil.

You are the guys screaming for a drunken midget qb who never took a snap under center in college and looked like ass doing so at the senior bowl

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T0mShane

T0mShane

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Posted
12 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

For all the people killing Allen because of his completion percentage Jay cutler had a similar completion percentage playing with nobodies at vanderbilt

 

a part of completion percentage is the receiver actually catching the ball

Not sure if you’re making the positive case for Allen or not

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