Philc1 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Besides Tim Couch, Geno Smith, Johnny Manziel and Jared Lorenzen I can’t think of any college air raid qbs who have taken the nfl by storm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Well Pat Mahomes and Davis Webb are also Air Raid QBs. NIck Foles and Case Keenum were as well Jared Goff is too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnleyJet Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 #Agenda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: Well Pat Mahomes and Davis Webb are also Air Raid QBs. NIck Foles and Case Keenum were as well Jared Goff is too And Derek Carr. He tends to forget the good QB's lol. #Agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: Well Pat Mahomes and Davis Webb are also Air Raid QBs. NIck Foles and Case Keenum were as well Jared Goff is too Not sold on Goff and he’s the best air raid qb in the nfl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Just now, Philc1 said: Not sold on Goff and he’s the best air raid qb in the nfl Its hard to say that when Nick Foles just won a Super Bowl and didn't go for the ride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said: Its hard to say that when Nick Foles just won a Super Bowl and didn't go for the ride Foles inherited Wentz’s team the first 5 years of his nfl career say hello Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Just now, Philc1 said: Foles inherited Wentz’s team the first 5 years of his nfl career say hello He inheirited Wentz's team. but he wasn't a game manager. He had to outduel Tom Brady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 8 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said: #Agenda Well yeah my agenda is to actually be good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 Just now, UnitedWhofans said: He inheirited Wentz's team. but he wasn't a game manager. He had to outduel Tom Brady By scoring against a mediocre at best defense that benched its best cover corner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Just now, Philc1 said: By scoring against a mediocre at best defense that benched its best cover corner So? As to Foles's first 5 seasons, this guy did put up a season where he threw 27 TDs and 2 INts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 For the people trying to use Nick Foles’ one good month in the nfl as the big card to show that air raid qbs might actually be good in the nfl— The Eagles incorporated a lot of gimmicky air raid concepts into their offense if you watched the Super Bowl. Bates and the Jets run a version of WCO which is totally opposite from air raid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: So? As to Foles's first 5 seasons, this guy did put up a season where he threw 27 TDs and 2 INts. #cherrypicking how did Nick do the other years? Why was Foles forced to take a backup job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCJet Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 There are a couple reasons why, many of which do not hold up in the 2018 and beyond NFL. Also, dont forget case keenum One reason that does hold up is that you can be successful as a cerebral, accurate QB in college without NFL level arm strength. Those guys simply dont have the skill set to succeed in the league. No more or less then a good Big Ten Inside LB who simply isnt fast enough for the NFL. Next is the type of offense. Until we started implementing spread concepts into the NFL, the learning curve was too steep (especially if you dont have the requisite arm strength) to go from the air raid to a 5 step drop offense with 2 WRs, a TE and RB/FB. The NFL is one of the least accepting of change of any industry in the world. People like Brian Schottenheimer and Marty Mornenwhig still have jobs as Offensive Coordinators despite TONS of statistical evidence that they are bad at their jobs. The NFL is "shocked" at how good guys like McVey and Kyle Shanahan are yet all those guys are doing is simplifying the offense and playing within the new rules to make their QB's jobs easier. I dont know how good Goff will be, but he certainly isnt good playing Jeff Fischer's absurd 2002 NFL offense, and he might not be as good as year 1 in McVey's offense, but he certainly is better off playing in a modified spread. Guys like Foles need a simplified offense, thats why he was great with Chip Kelly, bad with Jeff Fischer and good with Doug Pederson. You need a coach who doesnt have an ego, and simply designs plays and a game plan around your strengths and the opponents weakness. The NFL is moving more towards these types of offenses simply because defenses dont have the same advantages they had as recently as 6 or 7 years ago. Add in the new targeting rule that was put in place yesterday and offense will be even easier in 2018 - you need to find an accurate QB, who can keep his eyes downfield and find his second or third option while being able to move in the pocket and/or run the ball on occasion. You dont need an accurate QB who keeps his eyes downfield AND who is also 6'4 235 and who has an upper echelon arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, Philc1 said: For the people trying to use Nick Foles’ one good month in the nfl as the big card to show that air raid qbs might actually be good in the nfl— The Eagles incorporated a lot of gimmicky air raid concepts into their offense if you watched the Super Bowl. Bates and the Jets run a version of WCO which is totally opposite from air raid Yes and how did that go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRL Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Means nothing because the trend in football is the incorporation of "college elements" into pro offenses. Over the next 5-10 years this won't even be a topic because more college coaches will be moving into the pros and bringing their offenses with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, KRL said: Means nothing because the trend in football is the incorporation of "college elements" into pro offenses. Over the next 5-10 years this won't even be a topic because more college coaches will be moving into the pros and bringing their offenses with them Well Chip Kelly won't be one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 45 minutes ago, BCJet said: There are a couple reasons why, many of which do not hold up in the 2018 and beyond NFL. Also, dont forget case keenum One reason that does hold up is that you can be successful as a cerebral, accurate QB in college without NFL level arm strength. Those guys simply dont have the skill set to succeed in the league. No more or less then a good Big Ten Inside LB who simply isnt fast enough for the NFL. Next is the type of offense. Until we started implementing spread concepts into the NFL, the learning curve was too steep (especially if you dont have the requisite arm strength) to go from the air raid to a 5 step drop offense with 2 WRs, a TE and RB/FB. The NFL is one of the least accepting of change of any industry in the world. People like Brian Schottenheimer and Marty Mornenwhig still have jobs as Offensive Coordinators despite TONS of statistical evidence that they are bad at their jobs. The NFL is "shocked" at how good guys like McVey and Kyle Shanahan are yet all those guys are doing is simplifying the offense and playing within the new rules to make their QB's jobs easier. I dont know how good Goff will be, but he certainly isnt good playing Jeff Fischer's absurd 2002 NFL offense, and he might not be as good as year 1 in McVey's offense, but he certainly is better off playing in a modified spread. Guys like Foles need a simplified offense, thats why he was great with Chip Kelly, bad with Jeff Fischer and good with Doug Pederson. You need a coach who doesnt have an ego, and simply designs plays and a game plan around your strengths and the opponents weakness. The NFL is moving more towards these types of offenses simply because defenses dont have the same advantages they had as recently as 6 or 7 years ago. Add in the new targeting rule that was put in place yesterday and offense will be even easier in 2018 - you need to find an accurate QB, who can keep his eyes downfield and find his second or third option while being able to move in the pocket and/or run the ball on occasion. You dont need an accurate QB who keeps his eyes downfield AND who is also 6'4 235 and who has an upper echelon arm. All the Baker Mayfield d-cksuckers just ignore everything you say and all the air raid qbs who did nothing in the nfl and just say “look at Allen’s completion percentage” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 43 minutes ago, KRL said: Means nothing because the trend in football is the incorporation of "college elements" into pro offenses. Over the next 5-10 years this won't even be a topic because more college coaches will be moving into the pros and bringing their offenses with them The problem is there is a reason why pro style offense is called pro style DBs in the nfl are ALOT faster than in college and have greater range. The Air Raid is based on spacing — those spaces won’t be there consistently on the pro level Pro style offenses mitigate this by keeping Qbs under center primarily to hand off to the rb in I formation or single back. Effective running games set up the pass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 51 minutes ago, Philc1 said: #cherrypicking how did Nick do the other years? Why was Foles forced to take a backup job? Would you be happy with 80% win rate, 64% completions, 27/3 TD:INT? I think if Darnold/Rose/Allen/Hackenberg did that you would sh*t your pants with joy. Yes, that was a gimmicky offense too, but maybe the problem isn't the Air Raid QBs. It may be the old school NFL coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 53 minutes ago, KRL said: Means nothing because the trend in football is the incorporation of "college elements" into pro offenses. Over the next 5-10 years this won't even be a topic because more college coaches will be moving into the pros and bringing their offenses with them This has been attempted before, doesnt work in the NFL. Defenses are too good in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 11 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: Would you be happy with 80% win rate, 64% completions, 27/3 TD:INT? I think if Darnold/Rose/Allen/Hackenberg did that you would sh*t your pants with joy. Yes, that was a gimmicky offense too, but maybe the problem isn't the Air Raid QBs. It may be the old school NFL coaches. Foles was considered a JAG less than 4 months ago. Enough revisionist history about Nick Foles already he had one good month with Wentz’s team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said: This has been attempted before, doesnt work in the NFL. Defenses are too good in the NFL. Which is why Chip Kelly is back where he belongs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Philc1 said: #cherrypicking how did Nick do the other years? Why was Foles forced to take a backup job? 1 minute ago, Philc1 said: Foles was considered a JAG less than 4 months ago. Enough revisionist history about Nick Foles already he had one good month with Wentz’s team You: Nick Foles sucked the 5 years before this one. Me: What about that great season he had with the historic TD/INT ratio? You: REVISIONIST HISTORY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Foles also had the good fortune to play his best game in the SB. He had a few really bad games leading into the playofffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said: Foles also had the good fortune to play his best game in the SB. He had a few really bad games leading into the playofffs. And that SB was against an average at best Pats Defense without it’s best CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Just now, Philc1 said: So now 1 month = Season And let’s ignore the previous 5 years the Baker Mayfield d-cksucks confirmation bias needs to be in ALL CAPS They play ten games in a month? I was talking about 2013. You know, one of the 5 years before 2017 that you think he sucked. I am surprised to learn that I am a Baker Mayfield dicksuck, but I have been posting here a long time. I guess that sometimes it is just instinct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Philc1 said: And that SB was against an average at best Pats Defense without it’s best CB True but he still did what most others couldnt do against the Pats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Untouchable Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 1 hour ago, UnitedWhofans said: Its hard to say that when Nick Foles just won a Super Bowl and didn't go for the ride Hey, Nick Foles was fantastic in the NFCCG and Super Bowl, no one can take that away from him... But who the hell would sign up right now to hitch their wagon to him for the next 5+ years as their starter? No one besides a handful of dildo fans who have completely forgotten what he amounted to in St. Louis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: They play ten games in a month? I was talking about 2013. You know, one of the 5 years before 2017 that you think he sucked. I am surprised to learn that I am a Baker Mayfield dicksuck, but I have been posting here a long time. I guess that sometimes it is just instinct. And Foles sucked in 2014 and was a JAG backup in KC. We don’t have the same playbook as Doug Pederson and Bates is at best an unknown commodity as a playcaller who knows if hes skilled enough to incorporate a college offense Bowles certainly won’t help him And the Eagles had arguably the best offensive line in the nfl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Werblin Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Philc1 said: Foles inherited Wentz’s team the first 5 years of his nfl career say hello Didn't Foles throw like 40 tds with 2 interceptions in a previous season with the Eagles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, Philc1 said: And Foles sucked in 2014 and was a JAG backup in KC. We don’t have the same playbook as Doug Pederson and Bates is at best an unknown commodity as a playcaller who knows if hes skilled enough to incorporate a college offense Bowles certainly won’t help him And the Eagles had arguably the best offensive line in the nfl If a player can play well and the coach can't set him up to succeed get a new coach. If a coach can succeed, but the player can't fulfill his duties on the play, get a new player. If you have no idea about your offensive coach, make a bunch of definitive statements! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 Geno and Baker — same offense and same conference What can go wrong? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: If a player can play well and the coach can't set him up to succeed get a new coach. If a coach can succeed, but the player can't fulfill his duties on the play, get a new player. If you have no idea about your offensive coach, make a bunch of definitive statements! So it was Rex’s fault Geno wasn’t good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCJet Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 49 minutes ago, Philc1 said: All the Baker Mayfield d-cksuckers just ignore everything you say and all the air raid qbs who did nothing in the nfl and just say “look at Allen’s completion percentage” What does this even mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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