Character Guys

[New York Mick]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

I've worked with athlete's and have to admit I don't agree with you.  Messier, Richter, Kovalev, Gary Carte, K Hernandez, R Cano, B Williams, Klecko, Strahan, B Harper, Simms, Boomer, I can keep going.  All really nice, polite guys.  Characterizing most as completed shlt is not true.  Most know the difference between hitting someone violently on the field it ice and in real life.  You can believe what you want but maybe should ask yourself why everyone else gets it and you're the only one thinking it's ok for a team to be made up of low lifes and not see how it effects a team.  Until we lose and a S Richardson complains about someone or B Marshall complains about players hearts.

I guarantee I’m not the only one with this option and I don’t know where you’ve met or dealt with athletes but my experience was in stripclubs and nightclubs and 75% of them aren’t high character people and the people they hangout with definitely aren’t.

I also don’t care about the players character as a deciding factor. If they’re good they’re good. If they do something illegal they’ll be suspended or in jail so they’re no longer on the team until they pay the penalty. 

Do you have an issue with Robbie Anderson being on the team?

[Jetster]

40 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

And how slow does this need to read?  You can find good players who are high character.  The choices aren't usually a great HOF player, who's a POS and a JAG.

Andwhile we're at it, for all the talk about Ray Lewis, no one knows the story and until his case he never was close to being a character issue.  Even high character players can have a f'up. 

 

Ray Lewis killing a dude paled in comparison to have to watch him come out of the tunnel & do that stupid dance that looked like he was getting shock therapy while dancing with the stars.

[Skeptable]

43 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

As I said in my response to Warfish. Who decides what’s considered character? I have more friends that stopped watching sports over kneeling then anything else. They overlooked child abuse, domestic violence, drug use, cheating, stealing or basically being a complete scumbag though. 

I’d rather have a guy that has elite talent and is a douche bag then a choirboy that is a jag. 

 

elite talent doesn't breed success, its a combination of factors... if you go to extremes of course the elite talent is more intriguing... nobody is talking about extremes... As I keep repeating myself... discrediting character in a locker room is the failure of most rookie gms and coaches... for a good introspective into the professional locker room I encourage you to read "The only rule is it has to work" (https://www.amazon.com/Only-Rule-Has-Work-Experiment/dp/1627795642/ref=sr_1_93?keywords=baseball+prospectus&qid=1560094881&s=books&sr=1-93)

This gives you an idea of why not taking into account attitudes and character in locker rooms will cause teams to fail.  

Nobody here is arguing that Talent is more important... What I am arguing is that character and attitudes have factors into teams successes and failures and you amongst others on this board fail to take into consideration and act like it has no effect on the outcome

[New York Mick]

4 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

elite talent doesn't breed success, its a combination of factors... if you go to extremes of course the elite talent is more intriguing... nobody is talking about extremes... As I keep repeating myself... discrediting character in a locker room is the failure of most rookie gms and coaches... for a good introspective into the professional locker room I encourage you to read "The only rule is it has to work" (https://www.amazon.com/Only-Rule-Has-Work-Experiment/dp/1627795642/ref=sr_1_93?keywords=baseball+prospectus&qid=1560094881&s=books&sr=1-93)

This gives you an idea of why not taking into account attitudes and character in locker rooms will cause teams to fail.  

Nobody here is arguing that Talent is more important... What I am arguing is that character and attitudes have factors into teams successes and failures and you amongst others on this board fail to take into consideration and act like it has no effect on the outcome

I agree it has a factor but winning solves a lot of issues. I just don’t personally care about character. I don’t have to coach or play with them or even talk to them so there’s zero reason for me to worry about their character. If they can play they can play. 

[Skeptable]

1 minute ago, New York Mick said:

I agree it has a factor but winning solves a lot of issues. I just don’t personally care about character. I don’t have to coach or play with them or even talk to them so there’s zero reason for me to worry about their character. If they can play they can play. 

Not in a team sport... yes this works in Basketball but in team sports they have to work together... Character matters

[Jet Nut]

19 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

I guarantee I’m not the only one with this option and I don’t know where you’ve met or dealt with athletes but my experience was in stripclubs and nightclubs and 75% of them aren’t high character people and the people they hangout with definitely aren’t.

I also don’t care about the players character as a deciding factor. If they’re good they’re good. If they do something illegal they’ll be suspended or in jail so they’re no longer on the team until they pay the penalty. 

Do you have an issue with Robbie Anderson being on the team

 

You don't see that there aren't a whole lot of people aggressive that character means nothing, it's fireball?  You don't see that doing promotional work with athlete's is different than working with those that want to piss their money away at tittie bars?  You don't understand that a locker full of shltheads is a bad working environment that can lead to difficulties? 

And think seem that a player who has been avoided of an indiscretion, was easily cleared doesn't say enough and isn't the same as saying you prefer a high character player all things being equal. 

[New York Mick]

1 minute ago, Skeptable said:

Not in a team sport... yes this works in Basketball but in team sports they have to work together... Character matters

Were talking about two different things. You’re talking about players working relationships with each other I’m talking about how they act in their personal life. 

[New York Mick]

6 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

 

You don't see that there aren't a whole lot of people aggressive that character means nothing, it's fireball?  You don't see that doing promotional work with athlete's is different than working with those that want to piss their money away at tittie bars?  You don't understand that a locker full of shltheads is a bad working environment that can lead to difficulties? 

And think seem that a player who has been avoided of an indiscretion, was easily cleared doesn't say enough and isn't the same as saying you prefer a high character player all things being equal. 

I got to see how players really were not how they portrayed themselves. As I said a lot of them are assholes. I can only make an option from my experience. 

[Jet Nut]

17 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

I got to see how players really were not how they portrayed themselves. As I said a lot of them are assholes. I can only make an option from my experience. 

No, you said most are, not some are.

And one more time, what does any of this have to do with all things being equal collecting high character players over POS players who come to the draft with a history of problems. 

You seriously wouldn't have passed on K Hunt looking back than drafting him, paying his bonus and then maybe losing a shot at the SB because he was unavailable and ultimately dumped for no return. 

Great way to run a winner.

[New York Mick]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

No, you said most are, not some are.

And one more time, what does any of this have to do with all things being equal collecting high character players over POS players who come to the draft with a history of problems. 

You seriously wouldn't have passed on K Hunt looking back than drafting him, paying his bonus and then maybe losing a shot at the SB because he was unavailable and ultimately dumped for no return. 

Great way to run a winner.

I wish we signed Hunt

A lot of them are assholes

And personal character is the last thing I’m worried about. I’d rather have talent. 

[JohnnyLV]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Counter Argument:  I'd rather lose than have Mike "Dogkiller" Vick on my team.

Sometimes personal ethics/morals > Sports team fandom.

I would accept the same argument from anyone who objects to say, a wife-beating player.

It's important to keep sports in the appropriate place in ones life.  It doesn't, and shouldn't, come before deeply held beliefs.

Yeah agree, and the NFL is quietly sweeping what that loser did in KC because they dont want to see their new behind the back golden boy have a down season. It disgusts me. That creep should get a lifetime ban.

[JiFtheOracle]

The team that has dominated the league for the last 2 decades have quite literally institutionalized cheating into their organizational culture.  They've been caught red handed numerous times and the league literally turns a blind eye to blatant and deliberate circumvention of the salary cap.  One can only imagine what other tactics they deploy that we're not yet aware of.  Their owner, Head Coach and Quarterback have all proven to be not only cheaters on the field but also in life.  During their reign of dominance, they've employed wife beaters, criminals, mass murders, alcoholics and drug addicts.

But I too believe in the importance of character in regards to winning Football games. 

 

 

[Jet Nut]

58 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

I wish we signed Hunt

A lot of them are assholes

And personal character is the last thing I’m worried about. I’d rather have talent. 

And we'll never agree.  You're not going to convince me to change my standards.  All the excuse making in the world won't change my thinking.  That in I've seen teams come up short because the locker was filled with dirt bags.  You'll ignore it.  KC must be glad they had Hunt take them down.
 

We can agree to disagree.

[New York Mick]

8 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

And we'll never agree.  You're not going to convince me to change my standards.  All the excuse making in the world won't change my thinking.  That in I've seen teams come up short because the locker was filled with dirt bags.  You'll ignore it.  KC must be glad they had Hunt take them down.
 

We can agree to disagree.

I’m about to start a thread just for us to debate shit when we’re bored. 

[k-met57]

Team captain at michigan state....couldn’t beat Tim Tebow in a foot race....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Smith_(safety)

[roscoeword]

As a fan, it's more fun to root for guys who are character guys. When you have guys who do embarrasseing things like wiping their tuchus with the football, its harder to root for those guys. (even if they are Becham-like in talent)  it was fun rooting back then for guys like Cotchery who was always a class act and never engaged self serving hotdogging. So while talent may be more important than character when it comes to building a team, as a fan its more fun to root for players who are likeable. 

[Skeptable]

2 hours ago, New York Mick said:

Were talking about two different things. You’re talking about players working relationships with each other I’m talking about how they act in their personal life. 

You said character doesn't matter, I said it does... You decided to change the argument to non-working environment character.... Just because you decided to clarify what you meant does make you all of a sudden correct or that it is two different arguments

[New York Mick]

Just now, Skeptable said:

You said character doesn't matter, I said it does... You decided to change the argument to non-working environment character.... Just because you decided to clarify what you meant does make you all of a sudden correct or that it is two different arguments

I don’t care if you think I'm correct or not it’s an opinion. I’m talking about guys character (how they act outside of football for the most part) you’re talking about if they get along or not. Winning makes it a lot easy to get along. 

[sirlancemehlot]

21 hours ago, David Harris said:

I watched the center Harrison’s press conference the other day and it just struck me - I don’t think I’ve ever seen so many high character guys on the Jets. It’s one after the other of smart board room types who would pull over to help you with your flat and then do your taxes. I don’t know if this will help win a single game but the list of these guys on the starting roster is impressive:

Harrison

Osemele

Beachum

Shell

Quincy

Powell

——

Anderson

Mclendon!

Leo

Copeland

Mosley

Williamson

Jenkins

Adams 

Maye

——

I don’t know if their “dawgs” but this grouping makes for a good locker room or at least the best Boy Scouts or maybe an appropriation subcommittee or something.

 

 

You listed Anderson.  I'm assuming its Henry not Robby.  Robby is a bit of a dolt.  Fast though.

[sirlancemehlot]

20 hours ago, New York Mick said:

Who gives a ****? They’re NFL players not guidance councilors. I want the team to actually win not just look good in controlled meetings. 

Disagree.  Character matters.  Ask Odell Beckham.  The Pats and Steelers dump Primadonnas like its their job.  Give me good athletes with drive, intelligence, motor and character over the Santonio Holmes of the world.

[New York Mick]

17 minutes ago, sirlancemehlot said:

Disagree.  Character matters.  Ask Odell Beckham.  The Pats and Steelers dump Primadonnas like its their job.  Give me good athletes with drive, intelligence, motor and character over the Santonio Holmes of the world.

Holmes is a jag and I’d take Beckham on this team in a heartbeat. 

Should the Jets get rid of Robbie and Bell?

And did you just use the Pats and Steelers as an example as high character guys? LMFAO

[GreenFish]

Joe Douglas and Adam Gase both believe in guys who eat, sleep and breath football. Doesn't matter what we think is important. The two guys in charge value high character guys who are all about football.

[New York Mick]

22 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

Joe Douglas and Adam Gase both believe in guys who eat, sleep and breath football. Doesn't matter what we think is important. The two guys in charge value high character guys who are all about football.

Bell and Robbie?

[GreenFish]

5 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Bell and Robbie?

I think they will keep them. I don't think everyone on the team needs to be high character. Just that they will lean towards those guys when evaluating players to bring in. 

Also, Bell is a solid character guy to me. He works exceptionally hard. He does some charity work. His "character" has taking a beaten in the media because he didn't want to play without a long-term deal that he felt matched his value as a player.

He's had a DUI incident, and marijuana incident. So, not perfect. But I'd take Bell all day. The dude seems to be 100% committed to football which is what, I believe, Gase is looking for. 

[GreenFish]

7 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Bell and Robbie?

Robby is going to be interesting. He doesn't seem like a bad person. Just a guy that is immature. I think the team will wait to see how he develops on and off the field before making a decision. I like him as well. But, unlike Bell, Robby has some growing up to do. 

[New York Mick]

13 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

I think they will keep them. I don't think everyone on the team needs to be high character. Just that they will lean towards those guys when evaluating players to bring in. 

Also, Bell is a solid character guy to me. He works exceptionally hard. He does some charity work. His "character" has taking a beaten in the media because he didn't want to play without a long-term deal that he felt matched his value as a player.

He's had a DUI incident, and marijuana incident. So, not perfect. But I'd take Bell all day. The dude seems to be 100% committed to football which is what, I believe, Gase is looking for. 

If Bell was only as talented as Cannon would it be the same? Minus money obviously. 

[sirlancemehlot]

19 hours ago, New York Mick said:

Bell and Robbie?

Inherited Robby and Gase didn't want Bell.  Try again Mick.

[pdxgreen]

What?  Like Jack Armstrong, All American Boy character?

[New York Mick]

4 minutes ago, sirlancemehlot said:

Inherited Robby and Gase didn't want Bell.  Try again Mick.

It’s a question should they get rid of them or keep them. Obviously Douglas has nothing to do with them. 

[rangerous]

my thinking is the character guys will put in the effort day in and day out and pay attention to the coaches.  this doesn't mean their toady or anything.  it means they want to be there and want to stay there.  these are the guys the bellichiken characterizes as the guys who play at an 80% level 100% of the time.

[sirlancemehlot]

2 hours ago, New York Mick said:

It’s a question should they get rid of them or keep them. Obviously Douglas has nothing to do with them. 

How do you get rid of Bell?  He's under contract.  a big contract.  Simply not possible.  And Robby is a solid receiver at a decent price...the roster can handle a few knotheads.  The issue is when you have a choice between a Jachai Polite and a Chase Winovich and you choose Polite.  Adding poor character over exemplary character can only work if you limit the number of poor character players.  Most teams can handle a lightening rod or two.  But the more you add the more the team chemistry disintegrates.

[Fantasy Island]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/former-nfl-tight-end-kellen-winslow-ii-reportedly-convicted-of-rape-indecent-exposure-lewd-conduct/

Not a character guy.

[Apache 51]

1 minute ago, Fantasy Island said:

Not a character guy.

A thread about this was locked earlier.

[Losmeister]

since winslow II is locked..  interesting headline on same news item

ESPN headline "mistrial declared on 8 counts in Winslow Jr trial"

Guardian (UK) "EX NFL PLayer Kellen Winslow Jr convicted of raping homeless woman"

[jgb]

Great thing about a core of high character leaders is the team becomes self policing and then you can take a risk at absorbing some guys with checkered pasts