How long will it take to fix the Jets Oline

[Raideraholic]

On 10/28/2019 at 4:20 PM, jeremy2020 said:

Well, if you believe in PFF then the Bills line went from bad to good in one offseason. 

Thanks to signing Raiders backup offense lineman in Fa. Jon Feliciano .    Wanted a chance to start somewhere.

[Philc1]

21 minutes ago, Raideraholic said:

Thanks to signing Raiders backup offense lineman in Fa. Jon Feliciano .    Wanted a chance to start somewhere.

Bills also signed Nsekhe and Morse

 

Jets could have signed them but Mac

[phill1c]

On ‎10‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 12:27 PM, Bomberjet said:

Very true that the question is if they are drafting the right talent and being able to develop it.

When you review the players they drafted just from their college achievements , it was hard to question 99% just based on that alone, ignoring for the fact they didn't pick a position of need. That tells me that the coaching wasn't there to refine their skills to fit the system. It's baffling to think otherwise why they've had bad drafts. 

Consider this:  the OL is considered a non-skilled position. Bill Parcells believes it to be a waste to pick those positions in the 1st 2 rounds. With all his success , I have to believe it's the coaching, and to a lesser degree, talent.

Yeah, I agree. It's mostly coaching since the talent is about the same for most of the NFL. So, it's way more important to have great coaching than great talent.

But, alas, I don't think we have either.

That said, I don't see much physicality with our OL. They seem to get ZERO push at or beyond the LoS. And I don't see any of our OL blocking at the second level. That is what talent can bring, winning the battle at the LoS.

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

Good OL coach, good draft and good FA signings and the OL should be fine assuming Winters is cut - time to rid the building of Idzik

Lewis might be the only holdover, maybe Sam's little buddy from USC can move to RT or G but way too small for LT 

[Raideraholic]

10 hours ago, phill1c said:

Yeah, I agree. It's mostly coaching since the talent is about the same for most of the NFL. So, it's way more important to have great coaching than great talent.

But, alas, I don't think we have either.

That said, I don't see much physicality with our OL. They seem to get ZERO push at or beyond the LoS. And I don't see any of our OL blocking at the second level. That is what talent can bring, winning the battle at the LoS.

That might be the dumbest statement I ever heard it’s more to do with coaching,  than talent on the offense line.    

For example , the last time the Jets had a top offense line they invested heavy into that position . They drafted LT D brickshaw  Ferguson with their first pick , and C N Mangold with their second .    Two cornerstones at premier positions on offense line , that once you had it became much more easy to fill the rest of those spots on the offense line .( think that Jet offense line would have been good if they said you don’t need to draft offense lineman with your first two picks.

To built a great offense line it takes little bit of luck( not all offense lineman drafts are the same quality ) and you have to make the commitment in that position in the draft, Fa, and undrafted Fa.

You neglect investing in that offense line, and think that coaching can hide that, than you have no one but yourself to blame when you have a bad offense line.

The Raiders have only played nine snaps all year with there starting offense line Out there.  Only Lt K Miller has played every snap.  They have started three different Lg, three different Rg , three different Rt, and two different centers.    Hasn’t made  a difference as they put out a very good offense line out there  each week.    It’s not coaching as Tom Cable is a moron.

[phill1c]

9 hours ago, Raideraholic said:

That might be the dumbest statement I ever heard it’s more to do with coaching,  than talent on the offense line.    

For example , the last time the Jets had a top offense line they invested heavy into that position . They drafted LT D brickshaw  Ferguson with their first pick , and C N Mangold with their second .    Two cornerstones at premier positions on offense line , that once you had it became much more easy to fill the rest of those spots on the offense line .( think that Jet offense line would have been good if they said you don’t need to draft offense lineman with your first two picks.

To built a great offense line it takes little bit of luck( not all offense lineman drafts are the same quality ) and you have to make the commitment in that position in the draft, Fa, and undrafted Fa.

You neglect investing in that offense line, and think that coaching can hide that, than you have no one but yourself to blame when you have a bad offense line.

The Raiders have only played nine snaps all year with there starting offense line Out there.  Only Lt K Miller has played every snap.  They have started three different Lg, three different Rg , three different Rt, and two different centers.    Hasn’t made  a difference as they put out a very good offense line out there  each week.    It’s not coaching as Tom Cable is a moron.

You make good points if you get past the needless name calling. You back your opinions up with actual evidence. I could respect that...if you weren't so intolerant of the other side of the equation.

Bill Parcells took a team that lost 15 games and--with basically the same cast--improved that team to  9-7. So, Raiderholic, you ignorant, misguided Jets slut, there's an element of sanity in both opinions and numerous cases supporting both opinions.

That said, I've been humbled by supporting this team. It doesn't seem to matter which side of sanity you choose to take. The team just keeps losing and, if that's not bad enough, plays the most boring, I'm considering cancelling my NFL Sunday Ticket subscription "football", for damn near a decade. Obviously, I don't know sh!!t.

[CSNY]

In my opinion it will take at least 2 good drafts to build a NFL caliber O line with a good free agent pick up. First year and a half it will be a learning experience to get the new guys up to speed and to play cohesively as a unit. End of second season together you will see better play and by the start of the third season assuming all picks play to their potential this hypothetical oline scenario will be ready for prime time and be the envy of the NFL ( one can dream can’t we) 

[Raideraholic]

1 hour ago, phill1c said:

You make good points if you get past the needless name calling. You back your opinions up with actual evidence. I could respect that...if you weren't so intolerant of the other side of the equation.

Bill Parcells took a team that lost 15 games and--with basically the same cast--improved that team to  9-7. So, Raiderholic, you ignorant, misguided Jets slut, there's an element of sanity in both opinions and numerous cases supporting both opinions.

That said, I've been humbled by supporting this team. It doesn't seem to matter which side of sanity you choose to take. The team just keeps losing and, if that's not bad enough, plays the most boring, I'm considering cancelling my NFL Sunday Ticket subscription "football", for damn near a decade. Obviously, I don't know sh!!t.

Bill Parcells was the same guy who passed on Orlando Pace in the 1997 draft too.   The guy was a great coach,  but like a lot of head coaches , wasn’t a very good General Manager.    Was much better just coaching,  than trying to be Gm too.

So I really could careless Bill Parcells opinion on how to build offense lines .   It’s like J Gruden opinion on QBs- he never developed one. So it really doesn’t matter what he thinks there.

[BurnleyJet]

Well this line is so Epically bad it will pretty much get replaced in one year. 

I fully now expect the Jets to trade Jamal Adams before the draft, and have two first rounders. I strongly suspect Andrew Thomas will be a Jets pick, with us drafting top 5...

We will use the second on an interior Lineman either Guard or Center.

I also expect we will make a strong run at any quality linemen in free agency. Regards of if Darnold is shell shocked and broken. The fundamentals of this team need putting in place.

[NYJ1]

I'd imagine how Douglas will go about it is to sign one, possibly two through FA. Then use a draft choice on a Tackle. That won't completely fix the OL because really the entire unit needs to be fixed. However, that will make the OL much more competitive. In 2 years the OL can be completely overhauled.

[PepPep]

It all depends on what you mean by 'fixed' and it all depends on how much effort they put into it. If by 'fixed' you mean putting together a functional O-line that can keep the QB upright, they can do it this offseason. If you are talking about putting together a dominant O-line that controls games, that will be a lot harder and may not even happen in 2-3 years. 

Regardless, JD needs to make the O-line his top priority this offseason. Its a good time to do it b/c clearly there is a need for it and he will have an opportunity to cut Winters, and let Kalil, Beachem and Shell walk without any cap ramifications. So if he REALLY made the effort he could pursue some of the top O-line free agents and turn the O-line around pretty quickly. For example, maybe the Jets assume Edoga can start at RT and bring back Lewis. Then pursue a top LT and C in FA. Then draft a plug and play OG in early in the draft. I mean that would be a start. 

[PepPep]

1 hour ago, BurnleyJet said:

Well this line is so Epically bad it will pretty much get replaced in one year. 

I fully now expect the Jets to trade Jamal Adams before the draft, and have two first rounders. I strongly suspect Andrew Thomas will be a Jets pick, with us drafting top 5...

We will use the second on an interior Lineman either Guard or Center.

I also expect we will make a strong run at any quality linemen in free agency. Regards of if Darnold is shell shocked and broken. The fundamentals of this team need putting in place.

Well, the line will be fully replaced in the offseason not just b/c it has been so bad but b/c literally every starter can walk without a cap hit (Winters would need to be cut). I think they might make Shell a low-ball offer. 

However, I would certainly not bet on Adams being traded and I highly doubt we will be picking in the top 5. I still see the Jets winning 5, maybe 6 games. Dolphins twice, Washington, Bengals and Giants. No way are the Jets going to fold up this season, nor should they. 

So, as far as the draft its going to be a bit trickier. I think they will be selecting just outside of the top 10. It's going to depend on who slides to them. There should be a number of starting caliber OTs available. Wirfs out of Iowa or Wanogho out of Auburn are great pass protectors. I think if I was JD (assuming no Adams trade), I would go CB in Rd. 2. The Jets desperately need to hit on a #1 CB in the draft so they don't overpay in FA for CBs who's play is declining. 

As far as FA, yes, O-line needs to be addressed as a #1 priority. JD needs to make sure Darnold has two viable receivers on the outside (Robby or no Robby) and we need Pass Rush help, a mid range salary specialist like Beasely or Ngokwe. 

[BurnleyJet]

20 minutes ago, PepPep said:

Well, the line will be fully replaced in the offseason not just b/c it has been so bad but b/c literally every starter can walk without a cap hit (Winters would need to be cut). I think they might make Shell a low-ball offer. 

However, I would certainly not bet on Adams being traded and I highly doubt we will be picking in the top 5. I still see the Jets winning 5, maybe 6 games. Dolphins twice, Washington, Bengals and Giants. No way are the Jets going to fold up this season, nor should they. 

So, as far as the draft its going to be a bit trickier. I think they will be selecting just outside of the top 10. It's going to depend on who slides to them. There should be a number of starting caliber OTs available. Wirfs out of Iowa or Wanogho out of Auburn are great pass protectors. I think if I was JD (assuming no Adams trade), I would go CB in Rd. 2. The Jets desperately need to hit on a #1 CB in the draft so they don't overpay in FA for CBs who's play is declining. 

As far as FA, yes, O-line needs to be addressed as a #1 priority. JD needs to make sure Darnold has two viable receivers on the outside (Robby or no Robby) and we need Pass Rush help, a mid range salary specialist like Beasely or Ngokwe. 

I agree on everything apart from the Wins, the Jets are getting worse by the week, with injuries,  and off the field stuff.

That line can't protect at all, we have no linebackers, no corners, we are in bad shape . Our Pro Ball Safety is a hairs breath from mailing it in. 

All these other teams see the Jets as the team they will target for a WIn. Look a the numbers don't lie, we are historically bad, in Points, yardage per game, everything.

We are in full rebuild and the Line is #1 over everything. They don't think about another position whatsoever until that's done. 

[chirorob]

On 11/1/2019 at 6:42 AM, Raideraholic said:

That might be the dumbest statement I ever heard it’s more to do with coaching,  than talent on the offense line.    

For example , the last time the Jets had a top offense line they invested heavy into that position . They drafted LT D brickshaw  Ferguson with their first pick , and C N Mangold with their second .    Two cornerstones at premier positions on offense line , that once you had it became much more easy to fill the rest of those spots on the offense line .( think that Jet offense line would have been good if they said you don’t need

to draft offense lineman with your first two picks.

 

Don't forget when they did that, they also immediately signed the best available LG free agent (Faneca) to plug in between those two. 

[Jetster]

They should trade Adams if the price is right & draft Andrews & Biadesz and offer Scherff a contact he can’t refuse. 

Trus contact will be off the books in 2021. Resign Shell for Peanuts, keep developing Edoga, keep Lewis & draft a WR with the high 2nd, and 2 more Guards with their 2 threes. 4th round BRBA to back up Bell.

Go into the season with Andrews-Scherff-Biadesz- Lewis or 1 of the 3rd round guards that shines- Edoga or Shell (whoever wins job in camp). 

3 big free agent signings 

1- Scherff, 2- Amari Cooper, 3- Pass rusher. 

WRs- Cooper- Anderson- Crowder- 2nd round Rookie

TEs- Herndon- Griffin- Wesco

RBs- Bell- Cheap FA vet- 4th round Rookie

All our LBs back & healthy (keep Avery), QW in 2nd year + FA pass rusher 

This is the type of roster that could develop & get better over a season. 

2021- Fill a few holes- WIN

* Defense just needs to be average & play with more leads. 

 

[MS jets Fan]

Can do it in a season if done with 2 good free agents and 2 good draftees in 2020 class. I really believe Joe D will get this done by doing it that way next season.


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