Orlando Brown to KC

[GreenReaper]

On 4/23/2021 at 2:24 PM, munchmemory said:

How many years now have the various Jet GMs stated that we need to build our O line?  That right there is a friggin' how to clinic.

Seeing something like that makes you want JD to do something like this...

This ain't perfect but...

  

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, GreenReaper said:

Seeing something like that makes you want JD to do something like this...

This ain't perfect but...

  

That is pretty good, I am not a fan of Fehoko to be honest. Though others like him.

[varjet]

1 hour ago, GreenReaper said:

Seeing something like that makes you want JD to do something like this...

This ain't perfect but...

  

I like the top If this.  Would look for Lb and CB more after Pat F. 

[Raideraholic]

On 4/23/2021 at 3:19 PM, nycdan said:

Chiefs have really attacked their OLine problem.

Orlando Brown to KC for #31 plus more picks going both ways.  

 

Let’s see how Orlando Brown does in a different offense than the one in Baltimore.( lean heavy on their rushing attack) Way different offense he will be going to in the Chiefs.    Not to mention his reputation in the Pro’s was playing Rt, and not LT.     The Ravens always seem to come out of these trades , so Let’s see what they know,  that everyone else doesn’t. 

[Maxman]

2 hours ago, Raideraholic said:

Let’s see how Orlando Brown does in a different offense than the one in Baltimore.( lean heavy on their rushing attack) Way different offense he will be going to in the Chiefs.    Not to mention his reputation in the Pro’s was playing Rt, and not LT.     The Ravens always seem to come out of these trades , so Let’s see what they know,  that everyone else doesn’t. 

That is a really good point. You have to look at the trading partner. Right now it looks one way but the Ravens get this stuff right.

[jetophile]

On 4/23/2021 at 3:41 PM, Patriot Killa said:

The rich get richer.

The Jets get, er, the Jets get, um. Tell me about the rabbits, George.

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, Raideraholic said:

Let’s see how Orlando Brown does in a different offense than the one in Baltimore.( lean heavy on their rushing attack) Way different offense he will be going to in the Chiefs.    Not to mention his reputation in the Pro’s was playing Rt, and not LT.     The Ravens always seem to come out of these trades , so Let’s see what they know,  that everyone else doesn’t. 

 

42 minutes ago, Maxman said:

That is a really good point. You have to look at the trading partner. Right now it looks one way but the Ravens get this stuff right.

 

Definitely a good point, but the one thing that should give Chiefs fans hope (other than having Pat Mahomes and going to the SB 2x in a row, lol) is Orlando Brown's path to the LT job was blocked by Ronnie Stanley in Baltimore, the same guy who was a 1st team All-Pro in '19 and should be healthy this year. 

The Ravens weren't going to choose Brown over Stanley at LT in the long run, as evidenced by the 5-year deal they'd just handed Stanley in October 2020.  Brown wanted to be a LT.  Something had to give.

[Maxman]

55 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

Definitely a good point, but the one thing that should give Chiefs fans hope (other than having Pat Mahomes and going to the SB 2x in a row, lol) is Orlando Brown's path to the LT job was blocked by Ronnie Stanley in Baltimore, the same guy who was a 1st team All-Pro in '19 and should be healthy this year. 

The Ravens weren't going to choose Brown over Stanley at LT in the long run, as evidenced by the 5-year deal they'd just handed Stanley in October 2020.  Brown wanted to be a LT.  Something had to give.

It is a trade that can work out for both teams. Because it the Chiefs win a Super Bowl this year by keeping Mahomes standing, they won't care what price they paid.

[Sperm Edwards]

12 hours ago, Raideraholic said:

Let’s see how Orlando Brown does in a different offense than the one in Baltimore.( lean heavy on their rushing attack) Way different offense he will be going to in the Chiefs.    Not to mention his reputation in the Pro’s was playing Rt, and not LT.     The Ravens always seem to come out of these trades , so Let’s see what they know,  that everyone else doesn’t. 

He was a probowl LT this past season. He was a LT in college. He'll be fine. 

I think all that the Ravens "know" is they can't afford both Stanley and Brown at LT money (which Brown will get either as a FA or by tag). RT isn't LT-B like many choose to look at it. They'll find a RT with one of their two late round 1 picks (if not later, like they found Brown in the first place). Otherwise, in effect, they're surrendering a 1st round pick (and a bit more) that KC put on the table, to have Brown return as their RT for one more season before they have to let him go. 

It's not that there's anything wrong with Brown. It's that they're so good at drafting they have this luxury (or they feel they have this luxury). In addition to Brown, they know they've got another handful of starter contracts expiring or in need of extensions (or tagging) after this year. They could've just let Brown go next year, or hoped to tag & trade him like Miami did with Tunsil, but a lot of the reason they got what they did for Brown is that extra cheap season in 2021, just like the Jets with Adams. 

[varjet]

4 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

He was a probowl LT this past season. He was a LT in college. He'll be fine. 

I think all that the Ravens "know" is they can't afford both Stanley and Brown at LT money (which Brown will get either as a FA or by tag). RT isn't LT-B like many choose to look at it. They'll find a RT with one of their two late round 1 picks (if not later, like they found Brown in the first place). Otherwise, in effect, they're surrendering a 1st round pick (and a bit more) that KC put on the table, to have Brown return as their RT for one more season before they have to let him go. 

It's not that there's anything wrong with Brown. It's that they're so good at drafting they have this luxury (or they feel they have this luxury). In addition to Brown, they know they've got another handful of starter contracts expiring or in need of extensions (or tagging) after this year. They could've just let Brown go next year, or hoped to tag & trade him like Miami did with Tunsil, but a lot of the reason they got what they did for Brown is that extra cheap season in 2021, just like the Jets with Adams. 

The Ravens are the team who would draft Radunz or Spencer Brown and have him turn out to be an All-Pro.

But my prediction is the Ravens will take a T at 27 or 31 and not wait until later, because I don't think Radunz or Brown make it to the bottom of Round 2. 

Does not matter much from the Jets perspective, as I always assumed that the Chiefs were taking OT at 31.  

[bitonti]

5 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

 

It's not that there's anything wrong with Brown. 

Contra Case - his combine workout 

Brown runs hot and cold and "the sins of the father" will follow him around. He's talented also his temperament is not as consistent. Orlando Brown Jr wanted to play LT to honor Zeus Brown the player who got a flag to the eye and went crazy on a ref 

the ravens could be selling at a high but also, KC has a top 5 line at the moment 

if the KC Chiefs can Pay for Mahomes, Kelce, T Hill, and Orlando Brown AND Joe Thuney, the Ravens could have afforded Brown and Stanley. and the Jets could have afforded 2 tackles. 

I remember us having conversations where you were convinced DBrick was overpaid before he retired at 30 

Everyone can afford everything Sperm, when will you learn that buddy? 

The cap goes up every year and what the KC Chiefs are doing at the moment makes a mockery of any rational idea of the salary cap 

not that the Jets have been even close to the cap in forever

the Jets do a dance with the floor that involves trading assets to make it look like they are investing in the roster when they aren't. They use cap space cutting Alex Lewis, Crowder and trading CJ mosely, just watch

meanwhile the KCC are like playing Madden with Salary cap off

turns out the key to getting around the salary cap is 1) paying your stars and 2) wanting to win. It makes no real sense but tagging Maye instead of paying him creates higher short term cap usage than necessary 

[bitonti]

17 minutes ago, varjet said:

Does not matter much from the Jets perspective, as I always assumed that the Chiefs were taking OT at 31.  

The tackle run will be long over by 31. No one decent was ever going to make it to 31 and the Chiefs knew this

the real question is who will be taken by 23

if 7 OL have been taken (Sewell, Slater, Darrisaw, AVT, Tevin Jenkins, Cosmi) I have a very hard time swallowing OL 8 at 23

That next batch is Leatherwood, Dickerson, Creed etc and that seems like a reach at 23. Creed at 23 is that really what we are doing? 

meanwhile there would probably be 10 slot value steals at OLB or CB in this scenario, both also dire needs  

[Sperm Edwards]

15 minutes ago, varjet said:

The Ravens are the team who would draft Radunz or Spencer Brown and have him turn out to be an All-Pro.

But my prediction is the Ravens will take a T at 27 or 31 and not wait until later, because I don't think Radunz or Brown make it to the bottom of Round 2. 

Does not matter much from the Jets perspective, as I always assumed that the Chiefs were taking OT at 31.  

I think everyone expects them to take a tackle in between our picks, just because of the hole they opened up. The Chiefs would've been mortal locks into taking one as well (seeing how last month they cut both of last year's season-opener starters, and the two they had penciled-in was more appropriate to have compete with each other than both be handed starting jobs because there's no one else).

Anyway, this trade leaves at least one more OL prospect on the board before our pick at #34. Two if Baltimore decides to hold off and instead go with a veteran RT (e.g. Fisher/Schwartz are both still available).

Before this trade it's possible Baltimore might've gone OL at #27 and then KC as well at #31, but now with Baltimore owning both picks it's extremely unlikely they're going OL two early picks in a row like that.

[bitonti]

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Two if Baltimore decides to hold off and instead go with a veteran RT (e.g. Fisher/Schwartz are both still available).

Dennis Kelly, Alejandro villanueva are also linked to Baltimore. 

[Sperm Edwards]

42 minutes ago, bitonti said:

The tackle run will be long over by 31. No one decent was ever going to make it to 31 and the Chiefs knew this

the real question is who will be taken by 23

if 7 OL have been taken (Sewell, Slater, Darrisaw, AVT, Tevin Jenkins, Cosmi) I have a very hard time swallowing OL 8 at 23

That next batch is Leatherwood, Dickerson, Creed etc and that seems like a reach at 23. Creed at 23 is that really what we are doing? 

meanwhile there would probably be 10 slot value steals at OLB or CB in this scenario, both also dire needs  

I don't know if it's no one decent, so much as no one they wanted to roll the dice on. They needed a LT, and frankly I think they hated the idea of starting two first-year tackles (this year's #31 plus last year's 3rd rounder who missed the season). Conversely, Baltimore now just needs a RT (plus they do have another pick 4 slots earlier), and they could still sign someone like Schwartz or even Fisher after they're cleared medically. 

Agree 100% on the rest. I'd rather the Jets go with another premium player - especially at a premium position - who slipped, while other teams (including the Jets at #2) took 10+ QBs and OTs off the board. Then on top of them, a TE, 3+ WRs, a couple LBs, a few EDGEs, a safety, and 1-2 corners. The reality is the Jets aren't LT shopping at #23.

Better to take the #2 or #3 corner - still very much a premium position, and one we very much need - than the #6-8 OL, just to shove him at guard for the year. It's looking like we'd get roughly the same caliber OL pick at 34 anyway, where someone like Creed/etc. is more appropriate, and in the meantime it's like getting a free premium prospect (someone who's got no shot at sliding another 11 picks). 

[Sperm Edwards]

9 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Dennis Kelly, Alejandro villanueva are also linked to Baltimore. 

Yeah but with Stanley returning Balt was just in a very different position than KC.

Plus they probably figured they weren't keeping him past this year anyway (looking at their current roster and their upcoming expiring contracts).

So if they'd turned this down it'd be like turning down a 1st round pick to keep Brown for 1 more season (at RT, no less, which he's already opined on negatively).

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I don't know if it's no one decent, so much as no one they wanted to roll the dice on. They need a LT, and frankly I think they hated the idea of starting two first-year tackles (this year's #31 plus last year's 3rd rounder who missed the season). Conversely, Baltimore now just needs a RT (plus they do have another pick 4 slots earlier), and they could still sign someone like Schwartz or even Fisher after they're cleared medically. 

Agree 100% on the rest. I'd rather the Jets go with another premium player - especially at a premium position - who slipped, while other teams (including the Jets at #2) took 10+ QBs and OTs off the board. Then on top of them, a TE, 3+ WRs, a couple LBs, a few EDGEs, a safety, and 1-2 corners. The reality is the Jets aren't LT shopping at #23.

Better to take the #2 or #3 corner - still very much a premium position, and one we very much need - than the #6-8 OL, just to shove him at guard for the year. It's looking like we'd get roughly the same caliber OL pick at 34 anyway, where someone like Creed/etc. is more appropriate, and in the meantime it's like getting a free premium prospect (someone who's got no shot at sliding another 11 picks). 

Spencer Brown and Radunz might be more JD's taste, raw developmental RT types that don't threaten Becton for LT or even RT Fant for a year. The new Edoga as it were 

[bitonti]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

Yeah but with Stanley returning Balt was just in a very different position than KC.

Plus they probably figured they weren't keeping him past this year anyway (looking at their current roster and their upcoming expiring contracts).

So if they'd turned this down it'd be like turning down a 1st round pick to keep Brown for 1 more season (at RT, no less, which he's already opined on negatively).

Orlando Brown Jr was essentially holding out and burned all bridges so they had to trade him - to get anything under those circumstances is a good move. Maybe this makes me old fashioned but players who burn their way out of town (Jamal Adams cough cough) get looked down upon because they could always do it again  

it probably wasn't their preference to see him in the AFC Conf Champ game etc.

[GreenReaper]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

The tackle run will be long over by 31. No one decent was ever going to make it to 31 and the Chiefs knew this

the real question is who will be taken by 23

if 7 OL have been taken (Sewell, Slater, Darrisaw, AVT, Tevin Jenkins, Cosmi) I have a very hard time swallowing OL 8 at 23

That next batch is Leatherwood, Dickerson, Creed etc and that seems like a reach at 23. Creed at 23 is that really what we are doing? 

meanwhile there would probably be 10 slot value steals at OLB or CB in this scenario, both also dire needs  

Agree...

That's why I would hope Jets could trade down around #28-32 and pick up another 2nd or 3rd round pick.  You can then draft those 2nd tier OL in that late 1st round...instead of at #34.  Not much of a value difference.  And you would get the player for an additional 5th year.  Then use that additional pick for more offense.

If they can't trade down it's probably going to be edge-CB-LB.  

Or maybe moving up for an OL or impact WR if one happens to fall enough.

[bitonti]

10 minutes ago, GreenReaper said:

Agree...

That's why I would hope Jets could trade down around #28-32 and pick up another 2nd or 3rd round pick.  You can then draft those 2nd tier OL in that late 1st round...instead of at #34.  Not much of a value difference.  And you would get the player for an additional 5th year.  Then use that additional pick for more offense.

If they can't trade down it's probably going to be edge-CB-LB.  

Or maybe moving up for an OL or impact WR if one happens to fall enough.

this sounds like JD type of thinking

the only reported Zoom visits that fit in that 23 range is Tevin Jenkins or Zaven Collins 

[varjet]

I am not seeing JD picking another EDGE, except maybe Paye if he falls, which he won't.  

The value is not there, and given the signings it also signals that Zuniga is a bust.

I am actually expecting Zuniga to have some type of impact, because Saleh will squeeze it out of him.  

[Jetsfan80]

5 hours ago, varjet said:

I am not seeing JD picking another EDGE, except maybe Paye if he falls, which he won't.  

The value is not there, and given the signings it also signals that Zuniga is a bust.

I am actually expecting Zuniga to have some type of impact, because Saleh will squeeze it out of him.  

I definitely think Zuniga will be useful next season.  But drafting a pass rusher seems like a sure bet to me.  This defense depends on flooding the front 4 with pass rushers.  

[varjet]

I don't see the Jets taking a lower rated OT at 23.  There are too many other needs, and OT is not broken.  

I just played with this.  This could be good.

[bitonti]

7 minutes ago, varjet said:

I don't see the Jets taking a lower rated OT at 23.  There are too many other needs, and OT is not broken.  

I just played with this.  This could be good.

It would be a mild surprise if tevin Jenks falls to 23

Like 35 percent he's there 

[BornJetsFan1983]

On 4/23/2021 at 12:27 PM, DeerPark said:

joe d, this is how you do it...protect your franchise

You mean when you have one of the best qbs in the league and the best or one of the best offenses in the league? Or you mean after you lose the SB?

[Sperm Edwards]

9 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I definitely think Zuniga will be useful next season.  But drafting a pass rusher seems like a sure bet to me.  This defense depends on flooding the front 4 with pass rushers.  

Hope so, and that he's just a better fit in this defense than GW's.

Maybe if he's purely got a hand in the dirt 100% of the time (or just about), there's less of a stand-up edge rusher asked to read & react more, if that slows him down. Not everyone's suited for that.

Just in terms of force/physics, someone with his vertical/broad jump should - in theory - explode out of his stance, plus he's certainly got pushing ability (at least if the OT is a benchpress bar with 2 plates on each side lol) and supposedly knows how to use his hands. On the other hand, standing up it's how fast he processes what he sees and beyond that is just a 40 time, and all that explosiveness is wasted. Read & react for an edge rusher would seem ill-suited for those who don't process things in virtually no time at all, and in practice asks him to to cover a greater number of responsibilities (e.g. occasionally dropping into coverage); for many - and maybe Zuniga is one of them - that can have a much bigger impact on getting to the right spot faster or slower than just a 40 time.

Suggs was an extreme example of that: with his 4.8-4.9 speed he never should've sniffed near a QB. While his pure speed is significantly better, Zuniga clearly doesn't have Suggs's instincts - few do - so maybe just beating a man 1-2 feet in front of his face (straight up or going around him) is more his thing. 

I don't know offhand how many times he lined up with a hand in the dirt vs standing up. He just wasn't on the field that much, and - in a 2-14 season - admittedly I didn't have the motivation to push the rewind button very often with the Jets on D, just to see where every reserve player lined up every time (if I was even aware he was on the field in the first place on a given play). 

[The Crusher]

18 hours ago, bitonti said:

Orlando Brown Jr was essentially holding out and burned all bridges so they had to trade him - to get anything under those circumstances is a good move. Maybe this makes me old fashioned but players who burn their way out of town (Jamal Adams cough cough) get looked down upon because they could always do it again  

it probably wasn't their preference to see him in the AFC Conf Champ game etc.

Since he will insist to play out of position at LT instead of RT so he can be like Dad or way more likely make more money they may not be that worried.

[Sperm Edwards]

20 hours ago, varjet said:

The Ravens are the team who would draft Radunz or Spencer Brown and have him turn out to be an All-Pro.

But my prediction is the Ravens will take a T at 27 or 31 and not wait until later, because I don't think Radunz or Brown make it to the bottom of Round 2. 

Does not matter much from the Jets perspective, as I always assumed that the Chiefs were taking OT at 31.  

No argument here. What I was saying was more that Balt might have taken an OL prospect at 27 anyway and KC taking one at 31. So between our 23/34 picks there might be one less OL taken post-trade. 

Heading into this season Baltimore's iOL was as bad or worse than the Jets, despite all the cries as though Lewis-McGovern-GVR would be the worst G-C-G lineup ever. 

If you want instant sure-thing upgrades, then (outside of the top half of round one) you do that by signing or trading for upper level veterans, not typically by starting with the 9th rated OL prospect in a random draft, which performances as rookie pros are harder to predict.