Zach Wilson is awful

[bla bla bla]

3 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I would say if you swapped rosters the results would be pretty close to the same.  Hard to know how good or bad our roster is with the current coaches. 

Id say that's the biggest difference for me, the coaching has been a massive issue. I do think our WRs are better but their TEs and OL beat us. RB is sorta hard to tell cause of the difference in OL.

[dcJet]

I was pissed at the no-call for the low hit but after further review... a QB loses the protection from a low hit if they leave the pocket.

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/roughing-the-passer/#:~:text=When the passer goes outside,e) above%2C but he remains

Now I'm still pissed they didn't call late hits on both plays and still disappointed with Saleh being Bowles-ish about it.

[Biggs]

3 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

Id say that's the biggest difference for me, the coaching has been a massive issue. I do think our WRs are better but their TEs and OL beat us. RB is sorta hard to tell cause of the difference in OL.

The Pats also have a philosophy with the type of players they go after on both sides of the ball.  They generally go big on their fronts including the LB's.  We seem to be looking for speed guys.

Both teams are rebuilding.  They have a real plan that's worked for a long time.  We're being sold a plan but  it may be trash?   We shall see.  

[slimjasi]

13 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I would say if you swapped rosters the results would be pretty close to the same.  Hard to know how good or bad our roster is with the current coaches. 

This is basically my take, as well

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, HighPitch said:

Its not overblown. Mine eyes have seen a ton of them. 20 feet. Cant hit his target 20 feet away. Its happened a lot. The 20 foot blown passes that all qbs throw on rare occasions are frequent for Zach.

And you dont know what Jones would be on other teams. Your are just speculating. The bottom line is that Jones was projected to be an accurate, slow QB that was most NFL ready. He comes exactly as advertised. Zach, not even close.

 

A ton?  LOL

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Snell41 said:

 

Again, why did he stop running to throw the ball out of bounds? He could have tossed it in stride and the defender never would have touched him. Again, why did he pass up the two designed wide open options to hold the ball too long to throw deep into double covg? THAT is why he’s hurt. Period.


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What, you're actually attempting to blame the hit on ZW?  

Youre trying to hard to troll now

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Sellis92 said:

Zach Wilson isn’t winning 11 games either skippy

I soundly bet against it kiddo.

The idea that you know squat about a QB after 5 games is beyond ridiculous 

[Patriot Killa]

3 hours ago, Snell41 said:

 

Again, why did he stop running to throw the ball out of bounds? He could have tossed it in stride and the defender never would have touched him. Again, why did he pass up the two designed wide open options to hold the ball too long to throw deep into double covg? THAT is why he’s hurt. Period.


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LOL arguing against his play is one thing & it’s fair — arguing why he got hurt and saying it’s his fault is showing an agenda and outright stupid.

[Snell41]

Top QBs go to bad teams, that's how the draft works. QBs that go to better teams are going to play better from the start. 

What top QB? You talking about Wilson? Why is it so hard to understand, I did not value him as a top QB before the draft. He’s total fools gold and we’re going to pay dearly for it


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[bla bla bla]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

The Pats also have a philosophy with the type of players they go after on both sides of the ball.  They generally go big on their fronts including the LB's.  We seem to be looking for speed guys.

Both teams are rebuilding.  They have a real plan that's worked for a long time.  We're being sold a plan but  it may be trash?   We shall see.  

Sure, we also need to remember that the Pat's went 7-9 with half their team opting out. They are flat out better than us. Just something to consider.

[bla bla bla]

14 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

What top QB? You talking about Wilson? Why is it so hard to understand, I did not value him as a top QB before the draft. He’s total fools gold and we’re going to pay dearly for it

So you are of the opinion Mac Jones would be succeeding right now with us? The Pats went 7-9 with half their team opting out last year, they are flat out a better team than us.

[Snell41]

LOL arguing against his play is one thing & it’s fair — arguing why he got hurt and saying it’s his fault is showing an agenda and outright stupid.

Again, if he continues to run out of bounds while throwing the ball away he never gets hit. He literally stopped dead at the sideline and THEN threw the ball away. Stopping is why he got hit. The play where he finally went down for good he passed up two receivers on the designed play that were wide open to wait and hit a deep guy in double coverage. Again, follow the play design we have at minimum 8 yards underneath, or if he saw the 2nd level wide open receiver he’d have a 25 yard gain. He passed both those up and tried to play hero ball to Cole in double coverage. That off script nonsense gave the defender the time to close in and hit him, so yes it was his own fault.


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[Snell41]

So you are of the opinion Mac Jones would be succeeding right now with us? The Pats went 7-9 with half their team opting out last year, they are flat out a better team than us.

I think we’d be seeing progress with Jones here because Jones understands play design and defensive scheming.


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[RSJ]

1 minute ago, Snell41 said:

 

Again, if he continues to run out of bounds while throwing the ball away he never gets hit. He literally stopped dead at the sideline and THEN threw the ball away. Stopping is why he got hit. The play where he finally went down for good he passed up two receivers on the designed play that were wide open to wait and hit a deep guy in double coverage. Again, follow the play design we have DT minimum 8 yards underneath, or if he saw the 2nd level wide open receiver he’d have a 25 yard gain. He passed both those up and tried to play hero ball to Cole in double coverage. That off script nonsense gave the defender the time to close in and hit him, so yes it was his own fault.


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This is kind of the problem. When you have a rookie QB you build a good defense and running game. Then you bring the QB along slowly with screens, dump offs, roll outs and the occasional deep shot. You dont do this by giving your young QB a 14-0 deficit with no running game and telling him to read the entire defense every play.

[Jet Nut]

26 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

 

What top QB? You talking about Wilson? Why is it so hard to understand, I did not value him as a top QB before the draft. He’s total fools gold and we’re going to pay dearly for it


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Who did you have at the top?

Lawrence was unattainable and Fields has been horrific, Lance cant beat out Garoppolo at this point

[Snell41]

Who did you have at the top?
Lawrence was unattainable and Fields has been horrific, Lance cant beat out Garoppolo at this point

None of the above. It’s a terrible year for QB’s. I said Darnold stunk, but we were better off trading down from 2 Ana’s amassing more talent throughout the team via the draft. Then let Darnold take his lumps with the team and punt him after this season. I do not subscribe to taking bad QB prospects so high.


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[Snell41]

This is kind of the problem. When you have a rookie QB you build a good defense and running game. Then you bring the QB along slowly with screens, dump offs, roll outs and the occasional deep shot. You dont do this by giving your young QB a 14-0 deficit with no running game and telling him to read the entire defense every play.

Read the entire defense? The rollout was the simplest play Zach could have had. It was a 3 level read, with the first 2 being wide open. No QB should be excused for not seeing that I don’t care how long in the league.


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[RSJ]

1 minute ago, Snell41 said:

 

Read the entire defense? The rollout was the simplest play Zach could have had. It was a 3 level read, with the first 2 being wide open. No QB should be excused for not seeing that I don’t care how long in the league.


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What would Belichick do if Mac Jones did that? Heres a hint. Cam wouldnt have been cut if he was doing that in pre season. Cam would be starting. This is my point. These coaches cant coach.

[bla bla bla]

2 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

I think we’d be seeing progress with Jones here because Jones understands play design and defensive scheming.

For the start of the season Zach had 1.7 secs from snap to pocket collapse. The Jets WRs are among the highest in drop percentage in the NFL. We've consistently crucified LaFleur for his backwards play calling.

The only reason we haven't looked worse is due to Zach's mobility, something Mac is severely lacking in. Would Mac have shown "progress", perhaps but I don't think Zach has really had a fair shake considering the circumstances. 

 

All I'm saying is the doom and gloom less than  5 1/2 games in is premature.

[bla bla bla]

5 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

 

None of the above. It’s a terrible year for QB’s. I said Darnold stunk, but we were better off trading down from 2 Ana’s amassing more talent throughout the team via the draft. Then let Darnold take his lumps with the team and punt him after this season. I do not subscribe to taking bad QB prospects so high.


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Let's say Sam takes his lumps. Are you willing to repeat history and forgo potential franchise QBs to trade up again?

We passed on Mahomes and Watson and ultimately paid the price having to give up 3 seconds to get Sam. That's what you could potentially be signing up for.

[Snell41]

Let's say Sam takes his lumps. Are you willing to repeat history and forgo potential franchise QBs to trade up again?
We passed on Mahomes and Watson and ultimately paid the price having to give up 3 seconds to get Sam. That's what you could potentially be signing up for.

Yes if it’s the right prospect.


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[HighPitch]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

I soundly bet against it kiddo.

The idea that you know squat about a QB after 5 games is beyond ridiculous 

Dont bash the guy. He probably doesnt have a “source” within the organization like you do?

[HighPitch]

49 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

So you are of the opinion Mac Jones would be succeeding right now with us? The Pats went 7-9 with half their team opting out last year, they are flat out a better team than us.

Mac jones would be doing better with us right now? Absolutely. How do I know? Because nothing can be worse than what zach wilson is right now. Except maybe sam darnold.

mac makes throws open your eyes up

[Sellis92]

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

I soundly bet against it kiddo.

The idea that you know squat about a QB after 5 games is beyond ridiculous 

Name me the ranked defenses Zach Wilson played well against in college

 

you guys act like it’s a surprise when he sucks facing the Falcons crap D

[Sellis92]

31 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

Mac jones would be doing better with us right now? Absolutely. How do I know? Because nothing can be worse than what zach wilson is right now. Except maybe sam darnold.

mac makes throws open your eyes up

Mac Jones was the second best QB in the draft after Trevor.  A lot of people called it last Spring before the draft

 

But he’s not very good unless he’s facing a Robert Saleh defense and Wilson just turned it over in jet territory 

[bla bla bla]

1 hour ago, Snell41 said:

 

Yes if it’s the right prospect.


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So which franchise QB are you taking this year had we traded down?

[bla bla bla]

1 hour ago, HighPitch said:

Mac jones would be doing better with us right now? Absolutely. How do I know? Because nothing can be worse than what zach wilson is right now. Except maybe sam darnold.

mac makes throws open your eyes up

 

- OL gave Wilson 1.7 secs from snap to pocket collapse

- WRs are among the highest drop % in the NFL

- Belichick/McDaniels vs Rookie HC/Rookie OC

- Pats were 7-9 with half their team opting out.

 

Mac has absolutely played better but let's not pretend the playing field is level.

[Biggs]

I'm of the opinion Zach is a better prospect than Jones and Jones would be doing much better here right now than Zach is.  Jones has actually had great coaching before he got to NE.  He's undoubtably smarter than Zach with better comprehension.   He's got a very nice release and he has great touch in the short game.  He also knows how to climb the pocket.  He's a way more finished product than Zach.

Zach has more throwing talent and his more athletic.  The problem is the brain is still the most important tool of the QB.  

Zach needs coaching and help and the Jets have done a crappy job in providing help and coaching.   So while I think Zach is a better prospect and should have gone higher than Jones, I'm not surprised Jones is much better than Zach right now and I'm pretty comfortable Zach wouldn't be starting on NE and Jones would be much more competent than Zach as the NY Jets QB if their roles were reversed.  

 

 

[Snell41]

So which franchise QB are you taking this year had we traded down?

None, go back and read.


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[ZachEY]

4 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I'm of the opinion Zach is a better prospect than Jones and Jones would be doing much better here right now than Zach is.  Jones has actually had great coaching before he got to NE.  He's undoubtably smarter than Zach with better comprehension.   He's got a very nice release and he has great touch in the short game.  He also knows how to climb the pocket.  He's a way more finished product than Zach.

Zach has more throwing talent and his more athletic.  The problem is the brain is still the most important tool of the QB.  

Zach needs coaching and help and the Jets have done a crappy job in providing help and coaching.   So while I think Zach is a better prospect and should have gone higher than Jones, I'm not surprised Jones is much better than Zach right now and I'm pretty comfortable Zach wouldn't be starting on NE and Jones would be much more competent than Zach as the NY Jets QB if their roles were reversed.  

 

 

This is a good take, though I'm not sure Jones is "smarter" than Wilson.  I do think he's more polished a QB, by a lot, right now.

Zach wasn't ready.  This was obvious.  I was bashed repeatedly for suggesting it.  But, he's not an NFL QB today.  Maybe he will be one day.  Maybe he won't be ever.  But, today, he is not.

[dcJet]

If Zach played twice against our defense, he'd be looking better than Jones.

[bla bla bla]

40 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

 

None, go back and read.


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2022 draft (sorry didn't mean 2021)

[HighPitch]

1 hour ago, bla bla bla said:

 

- OL gave Wilson 1.7 secs from snap to pocket collapse

- WRs are among the highest drop % in the NFL

- Belichick/McDaniels vs Rookie HC/Rookie OC

- Pats were 7-9 with half their team opting out.

 

Mac has absolutely played better but let's not pretend the playing field is level.

Who pretended? Im just saying mac looks better and he is exactly what he was projected to be

[JohnnyLV]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

I'm of the opinion Zach is a better prospect than Jones and Jones would be doing much better here right now than Zach is.  Jones has actually had great coaching before he got to NE.  He's undoubtably smarter than Zach with better comprehension.   He's got a very nice release and he has great touch in the short game.  He also knows how to climb the pocket.  He's a way more finished product than Zach.

Zach has more throwing talent and his more athletic.  The problem is the brain is still the most important tool of the QB.  

Zach needs coaching and help and the Jets have done a crappy job in providing help and coaching.   So while I think Zach is a better prospect and should have gone higher than Jones, I'm not surprised Jones is much better than Zach right now and I'm pretty comfortable Zach wouldn't be starting on NE and Jones would be much more competent than Zach as the NY Jets QB if their roles were reversed.  

 

 

Have you watched Zach interviews? He is exceedingly football bright. Look GVR is an utter turnstile and LaFleur is an idiot. 

[Snell41]

2022 draft (sorry didn't mean 2021)

Sorry, I misunderstood that. To be honest, I’ve said in the past that any top tier draftee in 2022 would just by odds alone be a better prospect than Zach. While I still feel that way, I don’t think there’s a top tier QB I this coming draft either, which is why I’d consider a FA alternative like Russell Wilson. What we’re going to end up doing most likely now is using our pick and Jamal’s to add more resources and ride out Zach for another season, and be drafting his replacement in 2023


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