Will Zach Wilson make it a living hell? (Updated as of 31 May)

[Hal N of Provo]

5 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

If any QB’s 15 worst reps a game suddenly became good, of course he’d be ballin by Jets QB standard BUT 15 plays is a LOT

most football games are decided by a handful of plays. Getting better by 15 reps a game feels like a big ask to me 

I picked that number because it would probably make him the best QB in the NFL lol. 
 

We will see more soon.  I think Zach needs to prove himself this year or the Jets move on.  They will see him in practice all season even if we don’t know. 

MiLF was a moron and Saleh let it go, so I’m hoping Hacket is good and Zach takes a step forward early.

[Dunnie]

11 hours ago, derp said:

Zach Wilson has had poor pocket presence since his time at BYU. 
All the Wilson apologists love that one play.
The line can have been below average and still looked more functional with other quarterbacks behind it. Not mutually exclusive.
Wilson sacked on 8.7% of dropbacks. White 4.9%. Flacco 5.0%.

Right ... So you agree ... the line play was poor. fact of the matter is competitive QB play is fully reliant on above average line play.  They are not exclusive from each other... See Tom Brady's career for more information.

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Edited May 25, 2023 by Dunnie

[derp]

10 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Right ... So you agree ... the line play was poor. fact of the matter is competitive QB play is fully reliant on above average line play.  They are not exclusive from each other... See Tom Brady's career for more information.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

The quality of the line play doesn’t mean one player can’t make it look worse than another.

Maybe you’re just being hyperbolic, but teams get competitive QB play without above average lines all the time.

[Skeptable]

On 5/24/2023 at 2:44 AM, Jdeet said:

Give it a rest.

Its a shame so many Jets fans have such hatred toward one of their own players. He deserves his QB2 status. I am pretty sure, with what I know of Aaron Rodgers, if he wanted Boyle or someone else as the #2, it would be done. Aaron sees something in the kid. Maybe it turns into nothing. Maybe he never sees the field for 2 years and is on a different team in 2025. But, I trust Aaron Rodgers' view of talent, more than some guy on a Jet Nation message board.

I don't think he has a future here. But, while he is on the Jets, I will support the kid. He isn't a star QB and probably never will be. But he plays for our team. You would think acquiring Aaron Rodgers would maybe diminish the Zach Wilson bashing. Yet we still have posts like this and so many others. What's the point? He's a backup QB. Are we still living on what could have been? Or can we move on to what we have right now?

There are so many purely negative fans here. I thought this was going to be fun, joining this group. Not so much. Wow,

Its only a few posters that feel like they have to inject their negativity into even thread about how bad JD is at his job other then then the draft last year, or how bad Saleh's Rah-Rah positive vibes doesn't help the team and he is terrible at coaching, or how Zach Wilson is the biggest bust ever and there is no way to redeem himself. 

They feel they have to do it in EVERY thread... It does get annoying.

[Dunnie]

The quality of the line play doesn’t mean one player can’t make it look worse than another.
Maybe you’re just being hyperbolic, but teams get competitive QB play without above average lines all the time.

Maybe a little hyperbolic, but saying a second year QB would not look better behind a line that didn't look like the hoover damn being opened is just wrong.

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[derp]

9 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Maybe a little hyperbolic, but saying a second year QB would not look better behind a line that didn't look like the hoover damn being opened is just wrong.

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Very hyperbolic. And that’s not what I said.

[Ex-Rex]

On 5/23/2023 at 1:45 PM, Leftylarry said:

Healthy  rested knee (hopefully) time to reflect and grow up, I see no reason that with Rodgers as a mentor Zach Wilson  doesn't move on and become a solid NFL QB, question is where will he end up playing when Rodgers retires and Zach's contract is up?

Doubt its with the Jets.

I think Wilson will grow up and make himself into a solid QB. The arm talent is there he just needs to learn to harness it and read the defense better. Rodgers will help with that. In OTA's Wilson is always right next to Rodgers and looks like he is having fun.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

39 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

I think Wilson will grow up and make himself into a solid QB. The arm talent is there he just needs to learn to harness it and read the defense better. Rodgers will help with that. In OTA's Wilson is always right next to Rodgers and looks like he is having fun.

Hopefully if this happens, it happens here and not on another city.

It would really suck to spend the high draft pick and the time developing him just to let another team reap the rewards. 

[Jet Nut]

On 5/24/2023 at 9:10 AM, Jetsfan80 said:

Wilson should have been beating the trash intentionally placed behind him on the depth chart substantially with all that natural talent, not falling behind them.  Same system, same OC yet he was the worst performer of the bunch.  Even worse than Josh Johnson and even worse than Chris Streveler (in small samples). 

Hence why your constant blame of MLF for all of Zach's issues makes no sense.

Where are these mythical Chris Streveler successes?  4th quarters of a couple of preseason games vs no one still in the NFL?   It’s as bad as continually talking about one game Josh Johnson played as proving anything of significance. 

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Maybe a little hyperbolic, but saying a second year QB would not look better behind a line that didn't look like the hoover damn being opened is just wrong.

Every available metric said the Jets OL was above average with a healthy AVT and a little below average without him.

You're being ridiculous.  

Also, Wilson got to play with a healthy AVT more than any other QB on the roster and he still sucked.  So.....

[jgb]

13 hours ago, Hal N of Provo said:

I picked that number because it would probably make him the best QB in the NFL lol. 
 

We will see more soon.  I think Zach needs to prove himself this year or the Jets move on.  They will see him in practice all season even if we don’t know. 

MiLF was a moron and Saleh let it go, so I’m hoping Hacket is good and Zach takes a step forward early.

And if I had 4 more inches I'd be in the NBA... or the San Fernando Valley

[jgb]

38 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Where are these mythical Chris Streveler successes?  4th quarters of a couple of preseason games vs no one still in the NFL?   It’s as bad as continually talking about one game Josh Johnson played as proving anything of significance. 

When you feel a need to explain that the 4th string QB wasn't actually as good as the guy you're defending... boy you fell into that trap lol.

[derp]

50 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Every available metric said the Jets OL was above average with a healthy AVT and a little below average without him.

You're being ridiculous.  

Also, Wilson got to play with a healthy AVT more than any other QB on the roster and he still sucked.  So.....

Yeah, you can argue Wilson and Flacco had similar situations but Wilson certainly got more time than White with AVT, and also with Hall which I think took pressure off the passing game too.

Posted above but sacked on 8.7% of dropbacks, Flacco 5.0%, White 4.9%. It’s a pretty big difference.

What’s kind of funny (or not funny) is that one of the arguments earlier in the thread that the line didn’t look worse with him is that he was sacked 2.5 times per game versus 2.25 and 2 for White and Flacco (I forgot which was which).

Looks closer on a per game basis than a per dropback basis, though per dropback is obviously better. Because he dropped back less per game, presumably because they didn’t trust him to throw it as much.

[Jet Nut]

48 minutes ago, jgb said:

When you feel a need to explain that the 4th string QB wasn't actually as good as the guy you're defending... boy you fell into that trap lol.

Not really.  Was a legit question since it’s brought up as of Streveler was an actual QB hero.  Following the Josh Johnson reference.  Zach struggled enough on his own, doesn’t need help to prove it

[Dunnie]

Every available metric said the Jets OL was above average with a healthy AVT and a little below average without him.
You're being ridiculous.  
Also, Wilson got to play with a healthy AVT more than any other QB on the roster and he still sucked.  So.....

Ok explain the metric of Mike White lasting 3 games because of injury due to lack of any sort of protection?

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[Jetsfan80]

14 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Ok explain the metric of Mike White lasting 3 games because of injury due to lack of any sort of protection?

Mike White didn't last because he's brittle and because he was trying to be too tough for his own good.  He held onto the ball a bit too long to try to make something happen; the hit that occurred was preventable if he'd have taken the checkdown option.  Instead he tried to make a play, stepped up in the pocket (as you're taught to do) and took the hit.

This idea that the OL was a sieve last year is a pure myth.  The OL was fine.  Zach Wilson can't play QB. 

People have been blaming OL play and OCs for all the failures of young QB's for decades.  You're doing nothing new here.  Just the same old, same old classic excuse making.  It doesn't excuse away Zach Wilson being Ryan Leaf no matter how hard you try to re-package these old stand-bys.  

At least Darnold had some reasonable excuses for his failure here (even though he, too, sucked).  Wilson didn't.  

[jgb]

32 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Mike White didn't last because he's brittle and because he was trying to be too tough for his own good.  He held onto the ball a bit too long to try to make something happen; the hit that occurred was preventable if he'd have taken the checkdown option.  Instead he tried to make a play, stepped up in the pocket (as you're taught to do) and took the hit.

This idea that the OL was a sieve last year is a pure myth.  The OL was fine.  Zach Wilson can't play QB. 

People have been blaming OL play and OCs for all the failures of young QB's for decades.  You're doing nothing new here.  Just the same old, same old classic excuse making.  It doesn't excuse away Zach Wilson being Ryan Leaf no matter how hard you try to re-package these old stand-bys.  

At least Darnold had some reasonable excuses for his failure here (even though he, too, sucked).  Wilson didn't.  

Chargers had the worst OL in the league Herbert's rookie year

67% completion, 4336 yards, 31/10 TDs/INTs.

And the "OL" excuse also doesn't explain why he showed no material improvement in Year 2, with a better weapoionaannzzzzzz.

[Dunnie]

Mike White didn't last because he's brittle and because he was trying to be too tough for his own good.  He held onto the ball a bit too long to try to make something happen; the hit that occurred was preventable if he'd have taken the checkdown option.  Instead he tried to make a play, stepped up in the pocket (as you're taught to do) and took the hit.
This idea that the OL was a sieve last year is a pure myth.  The OL was fine.  Zach Wilson can't play QB. 
People have been blaming OL play and OCs for all the failures of young QB's for decades.  You're doing nothing new here.  Just the same old, same old classic excuse making.  It doesn't excuse away Zach Wilson being Ryan Leaf no matter how hard you try to re-package these old stand-bys.  
At least Darnold had some reasonable excuses for his failure here (even though he, too, sucked).  Wilson didn't.  

If you thought the OLine was good .. we were watching different teams ... Zach was running for his life, Mike White learned the hard way he should have done the same to avoid missing three weeks.

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[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Dunnie said:

If you thought the OLine was good .. we were watching different teams ... Zach was running for his life, Mike White learned the hard way he should have done the same to avoid missing three weeks.

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I didn't say it was good dude.  Just that it wasn't nearly as bad as you think, and the metrics back me up on this.

"Running for his life".  He only ran for his life by choice, whenever he ran from the first hint of pressure even when there wasn't any.  What a useless trope you keep parroting.  The OL didn't make Zach Wilson Ryan Leaf.

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

Chargers had the worst OL in the league Herbert's rookie year

67% completion, 4336 yards, 31/10 TDs/INTs.

And the "OL" excuse also doesn't explain why he showed no material improvement in Year 2, with a better weapoionaannzzzzzz.

Joe Burrow's OL has been decidedly worse, too.

[jgb]

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Joe Burrow's OL has been decidedly worse, too.

When they look good enough this year, we’ll hear “the line only performs ‘the good blocks’ for Aaron.”

[Flashlite80]

On 5/23/2023 at 8:37 PM, derp said:

That QBR under pressure was worst in the league though, right? Pressure obviously makes guys worse, but doesn’t have to make a player as bad as Wilson was.

I’d be curious to see how often he was blitzed relative to other quarterbacks. If you can’t beat a blitz it’s like when a defense can’t stop the run - no reason not to do it until the opponent gives them a reason to stop.

Guys like Burrow and Mahomes thrive in part because they’ll carve teams up if they blitz. Forces the defense to be more one dimensional since everyone knows the defense can’t blitz.

In that case obviously getting pressure with four is huge - big reason the Jets’ defense is tough to play against - but I don’t know if the pressure numbers are all on the OL or if they’re partially on his inability to take advantage of a numbers mismatch and get the ball out quick. I’d venture a guess it’s at least a little of the latter - holds the ball longer than a lot of guys.

Yes, the QBR of 19 under pressure was the worst.  No excuse for that.  Was responding to post that he looked great in practice.  

Zach proved completely worthless under pressure.  A large part of it was on him but let's not ignore the obvious.  The protection was attrocious.  He didn't receive anywhere near decent protection.  The o-line and backs, especially Carter, were horrendous at picking up pressure.

So an offense that cannot adequately pick up the blitz and a QB who is worthless under pressure drives the defense to blitz virtually every down.  Competency by either would have cost the defense dearly.   

[#27TheDominator]

On 5/23/2023 at 8:37 PM, derp said:

That QBR under pressure was worst in the league though, right? Pressure obviously makes guys worse, but doesn’t have to make a player as bad as Wilson was.

I’d be curious to see how often he was blitzed relative to other quarterbacks. If you can’t beat a blitz it’s like when a defense can’t stop the run - no reason not to do it until the opponent gives them a reason to stop.

Guys like Burrow and Mahomes thrive in part because they’ll carve teams up if they blitz. Forces the defense to be more one dimensional since everyone knows the defense can’t blitz.

In that case obviously getting pressure with four is huge - big reason the Jets’ defense is tough to play against - but I don’t know if the pressure numbers are all on the OL or if they’re partially on his inability to take advantage of a numbers mismatch and get the ball out quick. I’d venture a guess it’s at least a little of the latter - holds the ball longer than a lot of guys.

That's one of the things that gives me a small measure of hope.  Beating a team's blitz seems like the kind of thing you get working with the OC on tablet.  That is something Wilson and LaFleur sure didn't have.  That and the stuff that seemed like yips seem like things that are more likely to be overcome than being a chicken arm.  Still super unlikely.  Particularly when he seemed like he cracked.  

[Joe W. Namath]

zach throwing ropes out there.  Very exciting to hear how much he has improved this offseason.  With a year or 2 to sit and learn, we still might have our long term franchise qb here.

Keep it up Zach!!!!

[Bronx]

3 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

zach throwing ropes out there.  Very exciting to hear how much he has improved this offseason.  With a year or 2 to sit and learn, we still might have our long term franchise qb here.

Keep it up Zach!!!!

Zach Wilson is an offseason czar.

[derp]

2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

That's one of the things that gives me a small measure of hope.  Beating a team's blitz seems like the kind of thing you get working with the OC on tablet.  That is something Wilson and LaFleur sure didn't have.  That and the stuff that seemed like yips seem like things that are more likely to be overcome than being a chicken arm.  Still super unlikely.  Particularly when he seemed like he cracked.  

I tend to think of beating the blitz as more “can you consistently make good decisions quickly?” and therefore more intrinsic. But hopefully I’m wrong and he can improve in that area.

[derp]

2 hours ago, Flashlite80 said:

Yes, the QBR of 19 under pressure was the worst.  No excuse for that.  Was responding to post that he looked great in practice.  

Zach proved completely worthless under pressure.  A large part of it was on him but let's not ignore the obvious.  The protection was attrocious.  He didn't receive anywhere near decent protection.  The o-line and backs, especially Carter, were horrendous at picking up pressure.

So an offense that cannot adequately pick up the blitz and a QB who is worthless under pressure drives the defense to blitz virtually every down.  Competency by either would have cost the defense dearly.   

Protection certainly could’ve been better. That said, I think blitzing can be more about bringing numbers so there QB has to make a quick decision but there’s a whole in coverage - in that case it’s more about the QB than the protection.

Numbers came up later in this thread but he had the worst per dropback sack rate of the QB’s by a decent margin.

 

[Hal N of Provo]

25 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

zach throwing ropes out there.  Very exciting to hear how much he has improved this offseason.  With a year or 2 to sit and learn, we still might have our long term franchise qb here.

Keep it up Zach!!!!

@Jetsfan80

Look at how happy Joe is to be on the Zach bus.  Your seat on the bus is still available.  
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rich Thornburgh]

If Rodgers God forbid has a season ending injury Zach will make it hell… for all jets fans

[Bronx]

 

 

[Bronx]