Josh Jacobs Has Left The Building (update: he's back)

[Jetsfan80]

14 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Well first of all you're assuming a two year deal gets it done.

Everyone has a price, even on a short term deal.  Pay a little more in the short-term to avoid the lengthy commitment.  

Can’t be much worse than being forced to play on the Tag and also being subject to a potential 2ND tag….

[slats]

13 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Everyone has a price, even on a short term deal.  Pay a little more in the short-term to avoid the lengthy commitment.  

Can’t be much worse than being forced to play on the Tag and also being subject to a potential 2ND tag….

Like the Jets “overpaying for Rodgers,” the benefit being to get him in the building, working with everyone, from the first set of OTAs on. Imagine if we were still haggling with Packers right now? Because we would be if we hadn’t gotten it done before the draft. A couple million guaranteed gets Barkley in the building in the springtime, ready to work. With what he means to that offense, it really should be a no brainer. 
 
But again, that’s not knowing what Barkley (or Jacobs) was actually asking for. 

[nycdan]

40 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Well first of all you're assuming a two year deal gets it done. We don't know what the deal is with these guys exactly -- what they've been offered and what they've turned down.

Second of all, the Raiders suck and aren't going to sniff the playoffs. I wouldn't pay a RB big money if I were them -- I'd be looking to trade him and rebuild the whole thing.

Giants were smoke and mirrors overrated last year -- but there's a better case for paying Saquon if you're them because you can probably trick yourself into thinking you can contend.

Regardless, between Davlin Cook, Saquon and JJ it seems pretty clear this is a league-wide thing. These guys have short shelf lives and don't stay healthy. Draft them, franchise them, draft a replacement. Makes perfect sense to me.

Austin Ekeler said something very interesting.

(paraphrasing) The Chargers wanted to pay him like a WR3 but they wanted QB1 return for trading him.  

[#27TheDominator]

The Raiders had 5,993 yards last year.  Josh Jacobs had 2,053.  He had 393 touches in 1,043 plays and accounted for 12 of their 40 TDs.  The Giants had 5,678 yards.  Barkley had 1,650 of that.  352 touches on 1059 total plays and 10 of their 38 TDs.  These guys are a HUGE percentage of their team's offense and I don't blame them for demanding to be paid like it.  This is especially true since these teams have no qualms about using them as much as possible and not caring about their welfare or career length.  The Giants seem to be treating Barkley a little better and just ended up in a tough spot having to pay Barkley and Jones at the same time.  The Raiders rode the living sh*t out of Jacobs and are looking to pay him $10M and do it again while paying Jimmy Garoppolo 3/$73M for the few games he will play. 

[nycdan]

5 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

The Raiders had 5,993 yards last year.  Josh Jacobs had 2,053.  He had 393 touches in 1,043 plays and accounted for 12 of their 40 TDs.  The Giants had 5,678 yards.  Barkley had 1,650 of that.  352 touches on 1059 total plays and 10 of their 38 TDs.  These guys are a HUGE percentage of their team's offense and I don't blame them for demanding to be paid like it.  This is especially true since these teams have no qualms about using them as much as possible and not caring about their welfare or career length.  The Giants seem to be treating Barkley a little better and just ended up in a tough spot having to pay Barkley and Jones at the same time.  The Raiders rode the living sh*t out of Jacobs and are looking to pay him $10M and do it again while paying Jimmy Garoppolo 3/$73M for the few games he will play. 

They are paying Hunter Renfrow more than Josh Jacobs.  Renfrow had 330 receiving yards and 2 TDs last season.

 

[BornJetsFan1983]

2 minutes ago, nycdan said:

They are paying Hunter Renfrow more than Josh Jacobs.  Renfrow had 330 receiving yards and 2 TDs last season.

 

jacobs reportedly was offered over 13 mil a year...he's worth maybe 22 a year. But unless RB's start signing this contracts  to higher the ceiling, they are not every going to get what they want. 

if you are the best RB , getting paid top money more than anyone else is low. Never going to go up if they dont start taking the money. Crappy sitution, but he aint showing up till week 1.

[#27TheDominator]

13 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

jacobs reportedly was offered over 13 mil a year...he's worth maybe 22 a year. But unless RB's start signing this contracts  to higher the ceiling, they are not every going to get what they want. 

if you are the best RB , getting paid top money more than anyone else is low. Never going to go up if they dont start taking the money. Crappy sitution, but he aint showing up till week 1.

We did this last week and no matter how hard you try, I don't see how you think taking less money makes them get more money.  He's worth $22M so he should take $13M?  You were throwing that $13M figure around on Barkley last week.  The only thing I saw on Jacobs was $22.5M for 2 and that the Raiders did not even come close to that.  I have not seen this alleged $13M offer. 

Teams think it is safe to keep RBs the tag because they want them on short deals anyway.  The issue is that means they risk the RB sitting and playing/practicing the minimum amount necessary to get the $10M tag figure.  Gotta be rough paying a guy $10M and having him be a PR issue, trouble in the locker room and not practice,  Maybe better to pay the guy before you pay sh*tty QBs and fidget WRs?  The Raiders got cute and tried to **** Josh Jacobs over instead of paying him the $8M 5th year option.  Now they are ****ed.  Jacobs was between 1/4 and 1/2 of McDaniels offense last year.  Couldn't happen to a nicer guy..   

[Raideraholic]

8 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

*** Checks Raiders RB depth chart ***

 

2) Ameer Abdullah

3) Brandon Bolden

4) Zamir White/Austin Walter

 

 

9 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

@Raideraholic entering to explain how this is actually good in 3...2...1...

 

I told you the plan was always to run Josh Jacobs into the ground in 2022 and go with a Rb committe this year .( you don’t have five rbs not counting the Fb on 53 man roster. ( poor allotment of roster) .   Josh Jacobs had big year last year that had to keep him.( still never were going to set the market for him.  ).  He will be back week one as he’s not walking away from 10 million dollars .  
 

The Raiders rbs are fine Abdullah is more third down pass catcher . b Bolden is garbage ( but Josh Mcdaniels boy).  Zamir white is the next guy up .   ( has to show better vision than he showed last year- very limited snaps .  Sincere McCormick is the guy to watch here .   B Brown was the leading rusher in the preseason last year - didn’t get one carry in the regular season. 
The Raiders offense line is the reason for it really doesn’t matter as Carmen Buscillo did a great job developing this line.     Only question mark on the offense line is Rg - Alex Barr’s is garbage .   They have a lot of guys that competing for that spot. ( Muti , T Mulford , ).  
The Raiders are not the Giants they have legitimate passing game.   Due to injuries at Wr and Carr they had no faith to run Mcdaniels offense .  Also Carr doesn’t throw well to part field Mcdaniels likes to attack.

[#27TheDominator]

8 minutes ago, Raideraholic said:

 

I told you the plan was always to run Josh Jacobs into the ground in 2022 and go with a Rb committe this year .( you don’t have five rbs not counting the Fb on 53 man roster. ( poor allotment of roster) .   Josh Jacobs had big year last year that had to keep him.( still never were going to set the market for him.  ).  He will be back week one as he’s not walking away from 10 million dollars .  
 

The Raiders rbs are fine Abdullah is more third down pass catcher . b Bolden is garbage ( but Josh Mcdaniels boy).  Zamir white is the next guy up .   ( has to show better vision than he showed last year- very limited snaps .  Sincere McCormick is the guy to watch here .   B Boldin was the leading rusher in the preseason last year - didn’t get one carry in the regular season. 
The Raiders offense line is the reason for it really doesn’t matter as Carmen Buscillo did a great job developing this line.     Only question mark on the offense line is Rg - Alex Barr’s is garbage .   They have a lot of guys that competing for that spot. ( Muti , T Mulford , ).  
The Raiders are not the Giants they have legitimate passing game.   Due to injuries at Wr and Carr they had no faith to run Mcdaniels offense .  Also Carr doesn’t throw well to part field Mcdaniels likes to attack.

TLDR version.  They are actually better this year without Carr or Jacobs.  

[32EBoozer]

4 minutes ago, Raideraholic said:

He will be back week one as he’s not walking away from 10 million dollars .

Actually, only 1/17 of that $10 million

[nycdan]

20 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

jacobs reportedly was offered over 13 mil a year...he's worth maybe 22 a year. But unless RB's start signing this contracts  to higher the ceiling, they are not every going to get what they want. 

if you are the best RB , getting paid top money more than anyone else is low. Never going to go up if they dont start taking the money. Crappy sitution, but he aint showing up till week 1.

The problem is that as each top RB takes low money, it keeps the Franchise number down, giving the teams *more* leverage against everyone else in the future.  They need to get something closer to fair value.  No way a mediocre TE should be worth as much or more than a top-5 RB.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Raideraholic said:

 

I told you the plan was always to run Josh Jacobs into the ground in 2022 and go with a Rb committe this year .( you don’t have five rbs not counting the Fb on 53 man roster. ( poor allotment of roster) .   Josh Jacobs had big year last year that had to keep him.( still never were going to set the market for him.  ).  He will be back week one as he’s not walking away from 10 million dollars .  
 

The Raiders rbs are fine Abdullah is more third down pass catcher . b Bolden is garbage ( but Josh Mcdaniels boy).  Zamir white is the next guy up .   ( has to show better vision than he showed last year- very limited snaps .  Sincere McCormick is the guy to watch here .   B Boldin was the leading rusher in the preseason last year - didn’t get one carry in the regular season. 
The Raiders offense line is the reason for it really doesn’t matter as Carmen Buscillo did a great job developing this line.     Only question mark on the offense line is Rg - Alex Barr’s is garbage .   They have a lot of guys that competing for that spot. ( Muti , T Mulford , ).  
The Raiders are not the Giants they have legitimate passing game.   Due to injuries at Wr and Carr they had no faith to run Mcdaniels offense .  Also Carr doesn’t throw well to part field Mcdaniels likes to attack.

 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, slats said:

But again, that’s not knowing what Barkley (or Jacobs) was actually asking for. 

True.  The story with Barkley suggests they were only about $1.5-2M per apart and neither side seems to be denying it.  

Great job Giants.  

[BornJetsFan1983]

1 hour ago, nycdan said:

The problem is that as each top RB takes low money, it keeps the Franchise number down, giving the teams *more* leverage against everyone else in the future.  They need to get something closer to fair value.  No way a mediocre TE should be worth as much or more than a top-5 RB.

Of course. That why he and Barkley should have taken their deals and avoided all this stupid sh*t. Then next year the next stuf getting a contract would be offered more or similar if they are not quite as good. Raising the bar. Them instead of 13 mill a year offer not a a team might give a bigger guaranteed, or more per year ... Say 14. Then rinse and repeat. Until they stop being stupid and greedy they just hurt themselves. These two guy this year are going to play for 10 a year on a 1 year. Next guy who gets a offer will not be bigger it might even be lower.

They will ever be making low ball money unless they collectively start being smart and upping the price . No one going to pay a back more than what the market dictates, and because they are stupid they limit that money. The whole reason back up wrs make so much more is because of all the wrs before them that took those deals.

The lack of basic understanding on this board is crazy. It is so easy to grasp yet ...well, most don't.

Absolutely trash that these players who mean so much make peanut relative to other positions.

[BornJetsFan1983]

2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

We did this last week and no matter how hard you try, I don't see how you think taking less money makes them get more money.  He's worth $22M so he should take $13M?  You were throwing that $13M figure around on Barkley last week.  The only thing I saw on Jacobs was $22.5M for 2 and that the Raiders did not even come close to that.  I have not seen this alleged $13M offer. 

Teams think it is safe to keep RBs the tag because they want them on short deals anyway.  The issue is that means they risk the RB sitting and playing/practicing the minimum amount necessary to get the $10M tag figure.  Gotta be rough paying a guy $10M and having him be a PR issue, trouble in the locker room and not practice,  Maybe better to pay the guy before you pay sh*tty QBs and fidget WRs?  The Raiders got cute and tried to **** Josh Jacobs over instead of paying him the $8M 5th year option.  Now they are ****ed.  Jacobs was between 1/4 and 1/2 of McDaniels offense last year.  Couldn't happen to a nicer guy..   

Bro you can use Google.$$$  was repot multiple places. 

See my post above again explaining it 

Bottom line is they deserve more but need to build the contracts up over time to get what they are worth. They keep getting tagged and low balled money. It's sad. 

I think we both agree they deserve more. You just don't have a plan other than they should just ask for more. Life don't work that way. You are worth what someone is willing to pay, and right now if your a high performance back even the best (Jacobs/Barkley arguably) your not getting millions over the top of everyone else let alone 4 or 8 mil on top. You have to set the market as the best player to raise the pay ceiling, so the best top guy can get offered even more...raise up the market.

Again very simple and easy to understand yet you for whatever reason don't get it. 

Don't feel bad slot of RB's don't get it either

[Larz]

Only one possible solution 

 

 

[hawk]

5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I mean that's fine and all.  But when your QB's are Daniel Jones and Jimmy G, and you're contending with a tough division in NYG's case and a tough CONFERENCE in the Raiders' case....sometimes you need to find a middle ground. 

Hand these guys big money on 2-year deals and be done with it.  Absolutely no reason the Giants can find gobs of money for a goober QB + Evan Engram but can't do a reasonable 2-year deal with Barkley.  None.

Isn't it reported that Barkley wants around 16million per?  That's silly.  How far apart are they?

I believe the Giants offered 13 Million per.  That's a strong offer.  This is on Barkley, not the Giants. 

[Dcat]

6 hours ago, SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN said:

He will end up in Buffalo .

What has 20,000 eyes and 14 teeth?

Spoiler

The upper deck at Highmark Stadium.

 

[Jetsfan80]

16 minutes ago, hawk said:

Isn't it reported that Barkley wants around 16million per?  That's silly.  How far apart are they?

I believe the Giants offered 13 Million per.  That's a strong offer.  This is on Barkley, not the Giants. 

So he wanted CMC money.  Big deal.  Much like CMC, Barkley is a tremendous pass-catcher so it changes the calculus quite a bit.  He wasn't looking to re-set the market if that # is indeed true.  And in the end the guaranteed money is what matters most anyways.  If CMC money is what Barkley was seeking, then he'd likely have been requesting about half of the money to be guaranteed coin.  

Barkley asks for 16, Giants offer 13.  They could have settled on 14.5 or 15, which would be above Derrick Henry and around Kamara money. 

This is on the Giants too.  Daniel Jones' production will plummet without Barkley.  

[Raideraholic]

7 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Come now, Raiderholic just lectured me and assured me in another thread about how davante adams, Jacobi myers and Hunter Renfrow were going to destroy Sauce Gardner, dj reed and michael carter II

Raiders due to injuries to Hunter Renfrow and D Renfrow had just d Adams  that they relied on the running game more.  Go ahead jets Cbs play man to man against that trio and it’s going to be long day for the Jets secondary. 
All three of those Wrs are some best route runners in the game. 

[Raideraholic]

8 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

I wonder how far off all these guys are on contract talks with their teams.

You can’t negotiate  with franchise players on   a new contract this year.  Even if they are traded a new team can’t give them new contract.  They either play the year on franchise tag or sit out the whole year .

[Raideraholic]

3 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

TLDR version.  They are actually better this year without Carr or Jacobs.  

McDaniel system not depended on one Rb as you know what the Patriots have been doing for years with their running game.( use a bevy of running backs)  D Carr didn’t play well last year in this new system ( he knows it and even stated it)   Carr can throw to parts of the field Jimmy G can’t but in this offense he can’t make the passes that tge Qb needs to make.  ( Carr always been terrible screen passer, and doesn’t throw well to middle of the field.   Jimmy G played very well in this system . ( knows it)

 

    Raiders have top five Rb and passing game and their offense line is top ten.      Last year Mack Hollins ( a journeyman ) had big season as he was familiar with this system .    Every other player this was their first year in the system,    d Adams says one of the hardest system he ever played in . 
Jacobs not walking away from 10 million dollars .     He won’t be the bell cow he was last year as they have a lot running backs that will get their touches. 

[hawk]

15 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So he wanted CMC money.  Big deal.  Much like CMC, Barkley is a tremendous pass-catcher so it changes the calculus quite a bit.  He wasn't looking to re-set the market if that # is indeed true.  And in the end the guaranteed money is what matters most anyways.  If CMC money is what Barkley was seeking, then he'd likely have been requesting about half of the money to be guaranteed coin.  

Barkley asks for 16, Giants offer 13.  They could have settled on 14.5 or 15, which would be above Derrick Henry and around Kamara money. 

This is on the Giants too.  Daniel Jones' production will plummet without Barkley.  

I like Barkley, but I personally do not have faith in his health first and foremost, and slightly in second place, he isn't CMC.

I do agree the receiving threat adds value.  

I also agree the terms of a contract are more important than APY.

The Giants made an offer of $13 per, so at face value they showed love.

They could have offered something like 4 years $64 Million ($16 Miliion per) with $26 Million Guaranteed. $20 Million Signing Bonus and $3 Million Base the first two years.  Cap Hits of $8 Million the first two years.  Essentially a $13 Million Per Year Two Year Deal with 2 Club Options (Void Years) to follow.

They Made an offer of $13 Million per Year.  That is a stiff offer in a declining Market.

[Dcat]

Looking at raiders schedule, I think there's a sloght chance you get to 5-5 (plus or minus one) at week 10.  Unfortunately the next 6 weeks are Dolphins, Chiefs, bye, Vikings, Chargers Chiefs. 5-10 at week 16 is a distinct possibility and after that it doesn't really matter. 

My official 90210 prediction for the Raiduhs is 6-11.  Just like 2022.   

[Raideraholic]

8 hours ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

You jest. Abdullah, Bolden, and Zamir-White are the three best running backs of the last decade that are yet to be discovered. Or may never be discovered. But they are the best. Who needs Josh Jacobs? The Raiders are geniuses.

Zamir white played on national champion Georgia team  4.4 speed .   This guy one to watch  Sincere McCormack . Raiders new he was hurt needed surgery but they still kept him on injured reserve . 

 

[Barry McCockinner]

10 minutes ago, Raideraholic said:

Zamir white played on national champion Georgia team  4.4 speed .   This guy one to watch  Sincere McCormack . Raiders new he was hurt needed surgery but they still kept him on injured reserve . 

 

[Jetsfan80]

24 minutes ago, hawk said:

I like Barkley, but I personally do not have faith in his health first and foremost, and slightly in second place, he isn't CMC.

Not saying he is but we all know the highest-paid at a position tends to be the one that gets paid the most recently.  Meaning $16M isn't that outlandish of a request considering that would still likely have put him at # 2 on the RB list three years AFTER CMC got his deal. 

Despite the market depression CMC could probably command more like $17-18M per on the open market right now if he was the same age as he was in 2020.

[Jet_Engine1]

On 7/24/2023 at 12:46 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

@Raideraholic entering to explain how this is actually good in 3...2...1...

 

This is actually a very savvy move by McDaniels. Josh Jacobs is a declining player, and was taking reps from the Raiders secret weapon, Sincerely McMorkledorkle who once ran so fast he altered the orbital spin of both Earth AND Uranus. Simple. He is the best RB in the league that nobody outside of the Raiders organization knows about, because they're the best and brightest staff in the league.

Getting rid of all of the good players to make room for the much better players forced to ride the bench behind them because of the political aspects of the NFLPA is the type of bold move only a genius like Josh McDaniels would make. He's so ahead of the curve, he purposefully sabotaged the Broncos all the way back in 2010 to help the Raiders now. Josh McDaniels lives in a five dimension tesseracht and is a master of time and space. He has always been the Raiders coach, but simultaneously,  was not. It's really actually breathtaking. 

 

Anyway, the Raiders are a better team today without Jacobs.

 

[Jetsfan80]

42 minutes ago, Raideraholic said:

Raiders due to injuries to Hunter Renfrow and D Renfrow had just d Adams  that they relied on the running game more.  Go ahead jets Cbs play man to man against that trio and it’s going to be long day for the Jets secondary. 
All three of those Wrs are some best route runners in the game. 

 

39 minutes ago, Raideraholic said:

You can’t negotiate  with franchise players on   a new contract this year.  Even if they are traded a new team can’t give them new contract.  They either play the year on franchise tag or sit out the whole year .

 

28 minutes ago, Raideraholic said:

McDaniel system not depended on one Rb as you know what the Patriots have been doing for years with their running game.( use a bevy of running backs)  D Carr didn’t play well last year in this new system ( he knows it and even stated it)   Carr can throw to parts of the field Jimmy G can’t but in this offense he can’t make the passes that tge Qb needs to make.  ( Carr always been terrible screen passer, and doesn’t throw well to middle of the field.   Jimmy G played very well in this system . ( knows it)

 

    Raiders have top five Rb and passing game and their offense line is top ten.      Last year Mack Hollins ( a journeyman ) had big season as he was familiar with this system .    Every other player this was their first year in the system,    d Adams says one of the hardest system he ever played in . 
Jacobs not walking away from 10 million dollars .     He won’t be the bell cow he was last year as they have a lot running backs that will get their touches. 

 

14 minutes ago, Raideraholic said:

Zamir white played on national champion Georgia team  4.4 speed .   This guy one to watch  Sincere McCormack . Raiders new he was hurt needed surgery but they still kept him on injured reserve . 

 

 

[Jet_Engine1]

7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

 

 

Careful. Josh McDaniels is watching you from the bookcase, today, tomorrow and 15 years from now.

[RutgersJetFan]

It’s like 120 degrees in Nevada this month I’m pretty sure everyone is trying to get the **** out of there. 

[Lupz27]

8 hours ago, rangerous said:

These guys who leave training camp or don’t report just lose that edge they may have had. Leveon should have had lots of gas left in his tank but that year off just ruined him.  Maybe jacobs will be picked up but if he isn’t his career path is down.

It wasn’t the year off it was that useless piece of sh*t Gase.

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

4 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

It wasn’t the year off it was that useless piece of sh*t Gase.

Bell was declining the season before he took the year off. His YPC declined almost a yard from 2016 to 2017.  Meanwhile, James Conner took over in 2018 and had better numbers than Bell did in 2017. Bell's terrible 2019 season was pretty predictable.  

[BornJetsFan1983]

9 hours ago, nycdan said:

The problem is that as each top RB takes low money, it keeps the Franchise number down, giving the teams *more* leverage against everyone else in the future.  They need to get something closer to fair value.  No way a mediocre TE should be worth as much or more than a top-5 RB.

Yes as I have explained. They are stupid for not taking the contracts they are offered in hopes of some unicorn contract that will not happen. Have to force the bigger pay days but building it. That is the only way it will ever rival WR money.

Well they will make crap te money untill guys at the top talent wise take the multi year 12 and 14 mill deals. So the next guy gets a little more and more etc.

Every position does this. Except rb

Just dumb

[BornJetsFan1983]

5 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

This is actually a very savvy move by McDaniels. Josh Jacobs is a declining player, and was taking reps from the Raiders secret weapon, Sincerely McCorkledorkle who once ran so fast he altered the orbital spin of both Earth AND Uranus. Simple. He is the best RB in the league that nobody outside of the Raiders organization knows about, because they're the best and brightest staff in the league.

Getting rid of all of the good players to make room for the much better players forced to ride the bench behind them because of the political aspects of the NFLPA is the type of bold move only a genius like Josh McDaniels would make. He's so ahead of the curve, he purposefully sabotaged the Broncos all the way back in 2010 to help the Raiders now. Josh McDaniels lives in a five dimension tesseracht and is a master of time and space. He has always been the Raiders coach, but simultaneously,  was not. It's really actually breathtaking. 

 

Anyway, the Raiders are a better team today without Jacobs.

Great point.