I Was Wrong ...

[FidelioJet]

4 minutes ago, JiF said:

I remember a long long long time ago, in the year of 2022, a fanbase, NY Jets fans to be specific, sitting around, pulling each others pricks, so happy to be 6-3 and Zach playing well enough!!!!!!!1

 

What's your point?

We shouldn't be happy they won Sunday?  We shouldn't be happy to be 4-3?

We shouldn't have been happy when they were 6-3 last year?

[Matt39]

29 minutes ago, rtnelson said:

I can't wait to see what the name of the tropical storm that will hit this coming Monday in combination with 50%+ pressure rate and 2.5ypc from the running game.  So we can once again blame it all on Zach as we squeak out another win.

New York has had some miserable ass weather. Does it ever not rain?

[Bobby816]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

Zach Wilson is tied for 15th in the league in pocket time.

Admittedly, it’s been in a downward trend the last few weeks.  He was top 10 in the category following the KC game.  

But blaming the OL for his struggles all season just doesn’t fly.  

I’ll be the 1st to admit he hasn’t been good. But he also hasn’t been bad. He isn’t losing us games. Which isn’t that all people wanted if we brought in a vet? A guy that wouldn’t lose us games? And that’s what he’s doing. Allowing Breece and GW to do some damage and the defense carry us. And every week he seems to gain confidence as wins start amounting.

[JiFtheOracle]

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

What's your point?

We shouldn't be happy they won Sunday?  We shouldn't be happy to be 4-3?

We shouldn't have been happy when they were 6-3 last year?

Jeeeez, I wonder what point I'm trying to make...

[Bobby816]

45 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Also the Jets had essentially ZERO run game to boot so the Giants knew that Zach and the Jets were going to have to throw in key situations!

That is a big big problem with a terrible OL.

Also east to forget how good that NYG is. They played great. Hats off to them

[DireJet]

3 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

46 minutes ago, DireJet said:

Same exact QB. Nothing has changed. He looked like he did vs NE for most of Sunday’s game. 

Well thanks for proving you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Bobby816 said:

I’ll be the 1st to admit he hasn’t been good. But he also hasn’t been bad. He isn’t losing us games. Which isn’t that all people wanted if we brought in a vet? A guy that wouldn’t lose us games? And that’s what he’s doing. Allowing Breece and GW to do some damage and the defense carry us. And every week he seems to gain confidence as wins start amounting.

Zach needed insanely great defensive efforts and a good amount of luck not to have those games end up as losses.  He IS doing much to lose us games, as @T0mShane has pointed out with the EPA metric.

In addition, he directly lost the NE game for us so what you’re saying isn’t even true.  

[Jetsplayer21]

5 minutes ago, Larz said:

Why does it have to be one extreme or the other ?

Sadly as jets fans we should be experts at understanding that really bad offenses take a village.  
 

He missed open receivers and needs to throw the ******* ball away and not take zachs. But others contributed. Hall made 2 big mistakes late.  Hack seems unable to design an offense that is facing constant pressure. Screens ? Slants? Draws? Bootlegs ?   The line is in shambles.  The running backs were looking for a safe place to go down. 
 

the chargers are putting Bosa next to Mack lol. It’s not going to get easier.  This is the golden age of pass rushers. 
 

everyone on offense needs to be a LOT better. 

The D coordinators probably love to game plan zach. They know he doesn’t read well, or slow at best. There are guys open downfield when the rush is coming. Zach just can’t make the ride quick enough and so scared of throwing the ball deep. So it’s easy for a D to throw the rush at him and cover short.  

[Bobby816]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Zach needed insanely great defensive efforts and a good amount of luck not to have those games end up as losses.  He IS doing much to lose us games, as @T0mShane has pointed out with the EPA metric.

In addition, he directly lost the NE game for us so what you’re saying isn’t even true.  

What exactly were/are you expectations for Zach? Let’s start with that. Did you think he was going to come in and do what Rodgers would’ve done? What team when they go to their young backup QB expects great things.

 

I think the problem might be what some of you expect out of him being unrealistic l. And let’s use the whole league as an example. What does every team expect from their backup QB? That’s what we should be expecting. Most backups wouldn’t be 4-3 at this stage.

[KRL]

Great find by @jetstream23 to show Wilson's mental growth:

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/10/30/2023-week-8-jets-quarterback-zach-wilson-heroics-aaron-rodgers

 

It’s fun to talk about how Aaron Rodgers’s presence has helped Zach Wilson, or how Wilson has learned from offensive coordinator Nathaniel Hackett, and how maybe, just maybe, Wilson can turn his career with the Jets around with the silver-lining opportunity Rodgers’s injury has created for him.

But all those story lines didn’t amount to much as Wilson picked himself up off the turf, having taken a sack from Kayvon Thibodeaux that gave the Giants possession in field goal range, up 10–7 with 1:26 left Sunday. At the moment, a lot needed to happen for the Jets to have any shot at winning—the defense would need a stop, the special teams might need some luck on the field goal try and then the offense would need to drive the field.

Which is why, as the Jets sent their defense out on the field, the quarterback and his coaches’ first instinct was to reach into their bag of tricks.

Wilson on Rodgers: “It’s great to have him at practice and stuff. But we’re not able to get a lot from him because he’s going through his own battles right now, working through injury.”

“We’re looking for those,” Wilson told me over the phone an hour or so later after the game. “We have a plan, with some trick plays for just last-play-of-the-game kind of things to get to. We were showing cards of what those situations were like …”

And then things started happening.

On third-and-3 with 1:14 left and the Jets having just spent their final timeout, a host of their players corralled Saquon Barkley in the hole, with safety Tony Adams coming in at the end to stone him a yard short of the line to gain. On fourth-and-1, Graham Gano pushed a 35-yard field goal left. Suddenly, the Jets had life.

There were 24 seconds left, and they had the ball at their own 25. All they needed was a field goal to force overtime. Out the window went all the tricks Wilson and his coaches discussed.

“Fortunately, with 24 seconds left, we didn’t need to use them,” Wilson says. “We just went straight into two-minute mode. We had a chance.”

That chance was, again, all Wilson needed.

This one followed a script similar to the one the Jets wrote in similarly frantic wins over the Broncos and Eagles earlier in the month. That is to say, no, Wilson didn’t play great end to end, but what he did do in Sunday’s overtime win over the Giants was make the throws that the Jets needed him to—and maybe most important this time around, he made them when his team needed them most.

All within the final 24 seconds of regulation and overtime. And after it was over, Wilson gave us a few minutes to go through how, through his eyes, it all went down, and went down with just about zero room for error.

• The first throw, over the middle on the next play, was an absolute dart 29 yards down the field to Garrett Wilson. It wasn’t initially meant to go to the Jets’ best offensive player—and that it did is a nice sign of the young quarterback’s growth and ability to get to something that’ll work in an adverse situation.

“The deep one—the first play of those 24 seconds—was not supposed to go to Garrett,” Wilson says. “We actually had a keeper, like a rollout to the right, called. But they put their defensive end in a super wide-nine technique. So I changed the protection to just stay in the pocket. We want to work the front side, but we obviously have Garrett on the backside, just so that we can have that option. And I knew it looked good presnap, so I changed the [protection] so that I could try to work him on the backside in-cut. …

“I feel like I’ve grown a lot and I don’t know if I would have been able to point that out in the past. I don’t know—I can’t say because I haven’t been in that situation.”

Safe to say, it worked O.K. this time around. And as Garrett Wilson caught the ball, flags hit the ground and a stroke of luck was delivered. The officials called Thibodeaux offside. The Jets declined the penalty, of course, but the fact that it stopped the clock at 17 seconds loomed large.

• Wilson’s next throw was also for 29 yards—but it couldn’t have been much different. At the snap, the rush flushed him out, and he had to scramble right and look to his left for a target, which turned out to be Allen Lazard.

“It was a scramble drill,” Wilson says. “I mean, honestly, they’re in a tough coverage. They’re playing man with what looked like two safeties playing over the top of everyone. Not a good coverage for really anything there in that situation. So, really, I just told the guys in the huddle, ‘Be ready to scramble here, because we gotta find something.’ And Allen did a great job. He was on a corner route, saw me scrambling where I was able to cut back across the middle and hit him.”

With eight seconds showing, Adoree’ Jackson was still laying on Lazard after the catch. The rest of the Jets were sprinting up the field to try to get a clock-killing spike off. By their own rules, it shouldn’t have worked.

“It’s obviously a tough situation because our cutoff is roughly 12 seconds of being able to get a clock off,” Wilson says. “So me scrambling there is not really something we want to do. But I think in those situations, you kind of have to, and we were able to pick up a chunk there and I think the clock was at 11 seconds by the time the ball was completed down the field. So great hustle by the guys getting going and getting down there and clocking it.”

As Wilson went under center, he looked up and saw four seconds were left. “We were good,” he says. And he spiked the ball with a second left, allowing for Greg Zuerlein to trot on to kick a 35-yarder to tie the game and force overtime.

• After the Jets’ defense came up big in forcing a three-and-out and a punt, Garrett Wilson made a play on third-and-10 to move the sticks, and New York found itself in another game-defining—and maybe season-defining—spot. The Jets were in third-and-5 from the Giants’ 45 with 6:17 left. Given the weather and pace of the game, there was no guarantee they’d get another shot. So, in Wilson’s mind, the time was right to take a shot.

Downfield, he saw practice-squad call-up Malik Taylor with a step on Jackson. He didn’t want to underthrow him. But with the rush bearing down, he figured even if he could get enough on the ball, that might give the Jets two shots at the yardage.

“Of course, I’m throwing it, hopefully giving him a chance,” Wilson says. “Obviously, I don’t want to underthrow it. But I felt the pressure coming. Safety was cheating to Garrett’s side. I mean, he kind of went inside on his route. So I didn’t think I had a great shot. But like I said, guy’s back is turned, one-on-one coverage, a lot of the times you’re gonna get that PI [pass interference] call. I’m not gonna sit there and take a sack.

“So putting that thing up, giving him a chance to try and go back and get it—it’s either his or it’s probably going to be a PI.”

The flag came out. The Jets got 30 yards on the penalty. Zuerlein nailed a 33-yarder. And improbably, the Jets got above .500 at 4–3.

Rodgers attended Sunday's game against the Giants, and has been rehabbing from his torn Achilles at his home in California.

After the matchup ended, I asked Wilson about Rodgers’s influence at the end of the game. In a moment of honesty, he said he didn’t know. “He’s more with the coaches on the headsets,” Wilson says. It also wasn’t a week when Rodgers was around a ton. He’s been back and forth with his aggressive rehab plan being carried out in California.

“I think he came in this week, the day before the game,” Wilson says. “It’s great to have him at practice and stuff. But we’re not able to get a lot from him because he’s going through his own battles right now, working through injury.”

With the way this one played out, it’s kind of fitting that it was that way, because after going through all the trick plays and scenarios with the clock ticking down, it really was Wilson out there on his account, with his teammates, to win the game for the Jets.

And make no mistake, getting that done was plenty satisfying for the third-year pro.

“Yeah, no doubt,” he says. “Winning is all that matters, and, as ugly as it was and we didn’t play well offensively, being able to remain calm and find a way to get it done, especially in those circumstances, is really hard to do. I’m very proud of the offense. And I’m happy for my growth in those situations, too.”

That it keeps showing up when it matters most, of course, counts for something, too. If you look at the standings, in fact, it’s counted for a lot already.

[bicketybam]

 

You're the one who thinks 9/22 for 77 yards 0/0 and a 50.8 passer rating is the same as 17/36 for 240 1/0 and a passer rating of 78.5. I mean the way he played in those two games was not even close to being the same. I stand by my comment.

[Bobby816]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Zach needed insanely great defensive efforts and a good amount of luck not to have those games end up as losses.  He IS doing much to lose us games, as @T0mShane has pointed out with the EPA metric.

In addition, he directly lost the NE game for us so what you’re saying isn’t even true.  

What exactly were/are you expectations for Zach? Let’s start with that. Did you think he was going to come in and do what Rodgers would’ve done? What team when they go to their young backup QB expects great things.

 

I think the problem might be what some of you expect out of him being unrealistic l. And let’s use the whole league as an example. What does every team expect from their backup QB? That’s what we should be expecting. Most backups wouldn’t be 4-3 at this stage.

[DireJet]

1 minute ago, bicketybam said:

12 minutes ago, DireJet said:

 

You're the one who thinks 9/22 for 77 yards 0/0 and a 50.8 passer rating is the same as 17/36 for 240 1/0 and a passer rating of 78.5. I mean the way he played in those two games was not even close to being the same. I stand by my comment.

Zach sucks. 

[Barry McCockinner]

6 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

What exactly were/are you expectations for Zach? Let’s start with that. Did you think he was going to come in and do what Rodgers would’ve done? What team when they go to their young backup QB expects great things.

 

I think the problem might be what some of you expect out of him being unrealistic l. And let’s use the whole league as an example. What does every team expect from their backup QB? That’s what we should be expecting. Most backups wouldn’t be 4-3 at this stage.

My expectation for Zack is that he will suck and I think that's completely realistic.

Most backups don't have a defense holding opposing offenses to NEGATIVE NINE yards receiving. Most backups were also not the 2nd pick in the draft a few years ago.

[bicketybam]

Zach sucks. 

Expert analysis. Awesome job

[Matt39]

10 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

21 minutes ago, DireJet said:

 

You're the one who thinks 9/22 for 77 yards 0/0 and a 50.8 passer rating is the same as 17/36 for 240 1/0 and a passer rating of 78.5. I mean the way he played in those two games was not even close to being the same. I stand by my comment.

Wilson is statistically just as bad as he was last season. In fact, his advanced stats are worse, including DVOA. His sack percentages are still bottom of the league as well. Desmond Ridder, who’s near Wilson (but statistically better) was benched on Sunday for reference.
 

 

[Jetsfan80]

9 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

What exactly were/are you expectations for Zach? Let’s start with that. Did you think he was going to come in and do what Rodgers would’ve done? What team when they go to their young backup QB expects great things.

 

I think the problem might be what some of you expect out of him being unrealistic l. And let’s use the whole league as an example. What does every team expect from their backup QB? That’s what we should be expecting. Most backups wouldn’t be 4-3 at this stage.

I expect competence and he’s not that.  He’s the # 31 QB in the NFL among 32 qualifying QBs dude.  How is that good enough by ANY standard?

My expectation was maybe JD would try to upgrade on the cheap but I rarely get what I want.  

[Jetfuel66]

29 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

This is the most amazing thing about Wilson. With Sanchez he was clearly objectively awful but the team was really good and we were winning so he got a long leash -- and he had some genuinely clutch moments. So while he sucked I can see why people were attached to him. He's associated with a period of winning and had some genuinely good moments.

Darnold was put into an objectively awful situation where we plucked Jeremy Bates off the Appalachian trail and he had neither a quality NFL offensive line or quality NFL offensive skill talent around him. Despite that he showed real, actual potential as a rookie. So in our "big move" to save him we hired Adam Gase and the rest is history. Darnold has his warts but he was set up to fail here, but again I can understand why people "kept faith" despite lots of ugliness.

Wilson, on the other hand, was in a pretty good spot from the jump. The team around him wasn't that bad and he walked into a scheme that was very QB friendly and sucked out loud. And the second he was replaced by a replacement level QB the guy went off and got his jersey in the HoF.

Look, the offensive line was in shambles against the Giants. It was not a good situation. But we have 29 games of this guy now. He has had more games when he has been unplayably bad than in which he has been "good" which is a low bar to cross.

I agree with a LOT of what you said here, especially the way we ruined Darnold.

Couple of side points.. The team was devoid of talent in Zachs first year. Douglas had just gutted the team and they were BAD, Especially the defense.

Darnold played at USC , a huge program and Zach played at BYU against much inferior talent and opposing stadium atmosphere. He also played his last year during Covid with no one in the stands. I don't think Zach should have played his first year in the NFL. Its obvious he wasn't mature enough or ready. I also think MLF saw this and wasn't happy about playing him. Strained the relationship. I believe that is why when White and Johnson played in his place they looked so much better, and the offense did as well.

Zach definitely regressed last year, Undeniable.

But this season he seems to have matured, both physically as a young man and as a QB. I know it sucks that he didn't come out and light it up like some other rookie QB's but those guys are rare. 

We are here now. The first two seasons are done and we need to start to analyze Zachs play starting THIS year. Zach is trending up, and I am hopeful that he can put it all together,

 

Time will tell.

[BigRy56]

I see what these breakdown videos are saying but I’m going to stand by until we get a 300 yard, 3 TD performance from him before I get any type of excited about his progress

[bicketybam]

Wilson is statistically just as bad as he was last season. In fact, his advanced stats are worse, including DVOA. His sack percentages are still bottom of the league as well. Desmond Ridder, who’s near Wilson (but statistically better) was benched on Sunday for reference.
 
 

I was comparing last year's performance against New England with Sunday's performance against the Giants. I was told it was just as bad. Try to keep up.

[ChuckkieB]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

I do find it very entertaining that the guys who dislike Zach like to never bring up how he has a make shift OL and the play calling hasn’t been good either. And that outside that DAL game where we had to play catch-up… has next to never turned the ball over. The haters will say he fumbled twice this last week. Every Qab in the league fumbled when their LT lets a guy free and they hit you freely. And his next one was the 1st snap with a PS C that obviously ZW has never played with. 

And I find it very entertaining that after 2-1/2 seasons of watching Zack Wilson, there are still folks who refuse to acknowledge that he has been the worst QB in the league for that span and instead continue to make excuse after excuse for him to attempt to explain it all away. At what point is an NFL QB expected to sink or swim on his own talent and actually elevate the players around him? Every other team in the NFL has THAT expectation and the Jets should too. Zack Wilson is not a viable NFL QB and will find himself in the trash heap of all time draft busts soon enough, and there's nothing even the most stubborn apologists can do about it. 

[DireJet]

9 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

Expert analysis. Awesome job

Doesn’t take much to see it. Not that stats convince folks anyway. 

[Matt39]

6 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

12 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Wilson is statistically just as bad as he was last season. In fact, his advanced stats are worse, including DVOA. His sack percentages are still bottom of the league as well. Desmond Ridder, who’s near Wilson (but statistically better) was benched on Sunday for reference.
 
 

I was comparing last year's performance against New England with Sunday's performance against the Giants. I was told it was just as bad. Try to keep up.

They were both awful. 

[JetPotato]

53 minutes ago, Jetfuel66 said:

I don't need stats to back up my assessments.  I can SEE. Everyone that watches Zach play can see the improvement.

YOU choose NOT to see because you are more interested in being proved right about Zach, and you may be. Time will tell.

But for now he is definitely getting better each week and that my friend is undeniable.

Will he level off at some point ? Maybe.

Will he be a top 10 QB? Maybe

We simply dont know yet, Some players take longer to get there. Circumstances play a role in that.

He is improving and pulling the plug on a QB with his undeniable talent while he is on an upward trend is simply the WRONG thing to do.

Its what this organization used to do, but this is a different front office now and they won't make that same mistake.

 

There isn't a single person arguing that Zach hasn't improved. Throw this in the trash. It makes your stupid position look even stupider.

The point that non-delusional people are making is that his improvement is meaningless in the face of the fact the current, improved version still falls into the category of BAD. 2023 Zach Wilson is not a good QB by virtue of the fact that 2022 Zach Wilson was horrific.

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

There isn't a single person arguing that Zach hasn't improved. Throw this in the trash. It makes your stupid position look even stupider.

The point that non-delusional people are making is that his improvement is meaningless in the face of the fact the current, improved version still falls into the category of BAD. 2023 Zach Wilson is not a good QB by virtue of the fact that 2022 Zach Wilson was horrific.

Even bad qbs have really good games in their careers but ZW never does.  What he’s done is really cut back on the interceptions.  He could also work on the fumbles.  

[Dunnie]

There isn't a single person arguing that Zach hasn't improved. Throw this in the trash. It makes your stupid position look even stupider.
The point that non-delusional people are making is that his improvement is meaningless in the face of the fact the current, improved version still falls into the category of BAD. 2023 Zach Wilson is not a good QB by virtue of the fact that 2022 Zach Wilson was horrific.

Agreed .. and neither is the OL or coaching staff.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[bicketybam]

They were both awful. 

Wilson got us 60 yards of field position with 24 seconds left and no timeouts to tie the game. He then moved us into FG territory in OT to win it. It was awful. Horrific even.

[talisaynon]

This game reminded me of 2006 Pats vs Jets where we beat them in rain soaked Gillet. Bryan Thomas absolutely abusing Brady and Brady's receivers dropping it pass after pass.

It's the rain sh*t happens. If the rain made Brady looks like sh*t, imagine what it can do to Zach Wilson of all people.

 

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Even bad qbs have really good games in their careers but ZW never does.  What he’s done is really cut back on the interceptions.  He could also work on the fumbles.  

Yep.  The best you can ever hope for out of him is a good quarter or 2.  He’s probably only played about 3, maybe 4 good quarters of football out of 28 this year, with 2 of them coming in the Chiefs game.  And that’s been the story of his career to date.  

And sadly, those limited flashes have been enough for this regime to keep trotting him out there as the unquestioned QB1/QB2 for 3 years. 

[Matt39]

Just now, bicketybam said:

14 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

They were both awful. 

Wilson got us 60 yards of field position with 24 seconds left and no timeouts to tie the game. He then moved us into FG territory in OT to win it. It was awful. Horrific even.

Mark Sanchez did something similar once. 

[Anthony Jet]

2 hours ago, Matt39 said:

It’s called gaslighting and the media heads shouldn’t be trusted. 

Agreed, but watch the clip. Hes not wrong in any of those, and the throws he did make were not easy ones. But then you go back the feeling during the game and it’s like the Jets offense is playing in quicksand and everything about the offense is a difficult to watch and he’s the straw stirring the drink. 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Yep.  The best you can ever hope for out of him is a good quarter or 2.  He’s probably only played about 3, maybe 4 good quarters of football out of 28 this year, with 2 of them coming in the Chiefs game.  And that’s been the story of his career to date.  

And sadly, those limited flashes have been enough for this regime to keep trotting him out there as the unquestioned QB1/QB2 for 3 years. 

I really believe he’s gone next year.  I’m assuming either the jets don’t make the playoffs or eke in luckily and don’t win a game.  I’m predicting (go figure) OL in round 1 and a qb in round 3 to develop.  Also predict they sign a veteran qb to back up rodgers who doesn’t suck.  

[Warfish]

44 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

What exactly were/are you expectations for Zach?

The same as any QB starting for my beloved NY Jets:  Average QB performance/production or better.

So shorthand, being the 15th rated QB in the NFL or better.  Preferably top 10 or top 5, of course.  

But anything below ~15th would have me continuing to look for better options.

44 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Let’s start with that. Did you think he was going to come in and do what Rodgers would’ve done?

No, I expected he would come in and replicate his production-levels from 2022 and 2023, i.e. that he would remain one of the worst producing QB's in the NFL. 

And that is what he has done.

44 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

What does every team expect from their backup QB? That’s what we should be expecting. Most backups wouldn’t be 4-3 at this stage.

He was the #2 overall pick, he was our uncontested starter for 2 seasons (when healthy, not benched for failure) and he will play 16 and 9/10th of our 17 games this year as our starting QB.  And he's a $10 million cap hit in 2023.  Describing him as "our backup" because the Rodgers experiment failed in #4plays is IMO dishonest.  He's been our starter, he's our starter now, and several folks here advocate for him to be our starter in the future.

What I expect for the player described above is to do the same thing our starting QB should, perform at a league average level.  If he cannot, I would look to replace him with someone who can, either now, or in the next offseason.  So if he truly is "just a backup", I would look to sit him and see if our other backups can do better. 

Sitting a backup QB to try another backup QB is no biggie, right?  Not like sitting a starter.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Anthony Jet said:

Agreed, but watch the clip. Hes not wrong in any of those, and the throws he did make were not easy ones. But then you go back the feeling during the game and it’s like the Jets offense is playing in quicksand and everything about the offense is a difficult to watch and he’s the straw stirring the drink. 

It always seems there’s a reason why the offense fails.  The qb, OL, playcalling, drops, penalties, etc.  when we’re watching it live, we see the 3rd and 8 and the incompletion and naturally blame the qb.  But it’s more than just the qb now.  But it’s also the qb.  

[Joejet]

27 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I expect competence and he’s not that.  He’s the # 31 QB in the NFL among 32 qualifying QBs dude.  How is that good enough by ANY standard?

My expectation was maybe JD would try to upgrade on the cheap but I rarely get what I want.  

A wise man once said, you can’t always get what you want