Do whatever we need to to get the QB in RD 1

[JohnnyLV]

If we learned anything on Sunday it is that GB seems to have the right QB formula. Draft the guy sit him behind a HOF QB for 2-3 years and continue the cycle.

With Rodgers being here for 2 years we can enact this exact philosophy. Figure the QB you want and go get him. Sit him behind Rodgers for 2 years.

 

[Augustiniak]

The question is, are woody and JD watching and learning, and now thinking that it’s not a bad idea to draft a guy and have him sit behind rodgers.  

[derp]

I don't disagree that taking a quarterback and sitting him is the right approach.

I also don't think history shows teams need to get up that high in the draft to find a franchise quarterback, especially if they sit him. Love and Rodgers were both taken in the 20's, for example. Mahomes at 10. Even Herbert and Allen were outside the top five.

Most importantly, Joe Douglas' job is on the line this offseason. It's absolutely an organizational failure to have him in this position where he clearly isn't going to be thinking about things long term, but that's what's happening right now. I highly doubt he's thinking about adding the next quarterback this offseason.

He's probably hoping he can earn an extension, Rodgers will stay multiple more years like he's indicated, and take a look at a QB next year. I think it's more likely he makes several mistakes and everything gets blown up after this season.

[chirorob]

If you take a QB at 10, no 2nd round pick, you are going into the season with no real WR or O Line help.

Now, if you want to take one in the 4th to develope, sure.

[Paradis]

3 hours ago, JohnnyLV said:

If we learned anything on Sunday it is that GB seems to have the right QB formula. Draft the guy sit him behind a HOF QB for 2-3 years and continue the cycle.

0% Chance we draft a QB in round 1 for obvious reasons beyond JD selecting to save his job in 2024... but i agree with you philosophically. 

I offer you this instead, on day 2

 

[Paradis]

 

[JohnnyLV]

4 hours ago, Paradis said:

0% Chance we draft a QB in round 1 for obvious reasons beyond JD selecting to save his job in 2024... but i agree with you philosophically. 

I offer you this instead, on day 2

 

Interesting. Would seem on paper to be a good fit

[Paradis]

5 hours ago, JohnnyLV said:

Interesting. Would seem on paper to be a good fit

He'll be at the senior bowl in a few weeks, and likely one of bigger attractions. Stay tuned. 

[T0mShane]

My hot take on this is that if Zach Wilson was in this draft class, he’d be the QB3 by a pretty wide margin, so the Jets dumping Zach for a conditional fifth and drafting his replacement at 10 overall doesn’t make much sense.

[derp]

35 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

My hot take on this is that if Zach Wilson was in this draft class, he’d be the QB3 by a pretty wide margin, so the Jets dumping Zach for a conditional fifth and drafting his replacement at 10 overall doesn’t make much sense.

Zach Wilson from BYU COVID year behind an elite OL against a Charmin Ultra Soft schedule or Zach Wilson who's repeatedly shown that he can't handle pressure at the NFL level?

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, derp said:

Zach Wilson from BYU COVID year behind an elite OL against a Charmin Ultra Soft schedule or Zach Wilson who's repeatedly shown that he can't handle pressure at the NFL level?

Zach, who’s roughly seven months older than Penix, Daniels, and Nix. If he was entering the draft today

[derp]

33 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Zach, who’s roughly seven months older than Penix, Daniels, and Nix. If he was entering the draft today

So QB3 counting what he’s shown at the NFL level? 

[AFJF]

If they don't win this year, everyone is fired.

Any QB taken will be a day 3 project to sit behind Rodgers and learn.

All premium assets will be spent on players who can help in 2024.

[T0mShane]

42 minutes ago, derp said:

So QB3 counting what he’s shown at the NFL level? 

Oh, no. Just from a tools perspective, though I guess Daniels could show up and blow everyone away. Kiper and Brugler are saying he’ll go inside the top 6-8. I think I meant to suggest that if Douglas was entertaining the idea of taking a QB at 10 and he was looking at Nix, Penix, or McCarthy, his best route would probably be to just stash Zach and use the pick elsewhere

[T0mShane]

24 minutes ago, AFJF said:

If they don't win this year, everyone is fired.

Any QB taken will be a day 3 project to sit behind Rodgers and learn.

All premium assets will be spent on players who can help in 2024.

Agree with this. They’re not going to draft a quarterback for the next regime

[Untouchable]

No way

If the Jets want to take a flyer on a guy like Pratt or Travis in the 4th round as a developmental prospect to sit behind Rodgers for a couple of years, then I’m not against it.

But there’s no way in hell you allow this present administration with their asses blistering on the hot seat to sink another Top 10 pick into a QB, especially when they got the first one so spectacularly wrong.

If one of the Top 2 OT’s fall to us, great. Send up the card without thinking twice.

But of the realistic options at #10, dudes like Bowers, Odunze/Nabers and Fuaga/Mims make the most sense. 

[derp]

36 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Oh, no. Just from a tools perspective, though I guess Daniels could show up and blow everyone away. Kiper and Brugler are saying he’ll go inside the top 6-8. I think I meant to suggest that if Douglas was entertaining the idea of taking a QB at 10 and he was looking at Nix, Penix, or McCarthy, his best route would probably be to just stash Zach and use the pick elsewhere

I mean I don’t think Douglas is looking at a QB that high anyway so it’s all kind of moot. But I think Wilson’s been a nice example of how important you need something beyond arm talent.

Ultimately I think the guys who get there on “tools” have some combination of arm talent, a physical answer against NFL caliber athletes, and a degree of poise - even if a little less than is required if you’re not an alien athletically. Josh Allen is a tank, Lamar Jackson has wheels, etc. But guys like Justin Fields and Trey Lance have the big arm and the athleticism and haven’t done it - I think that’s the poise factor.

I suspect that Douglas thought Wilson had the poise to make up for not being a freak athlete - but it turned out that poise was the security of playing behind an elite elite OL against a bunch of guys who aren’t playing football any more.

[Fantasy Island]

1 hour ago, AFJF said:

If they don't win this year, everyone is fired.

Any QB taken will be a day 3 project to sit behind Rodgers and learn.

All premium assets will be spent on players who can help in 2024.

Yeah, I thought that would happen last year.

McDonald the 4th happened.  JD will eff it up. Guaranteed! 

[SickJetFan]

The more I think about it the more I think the Jets should just roll with AR and scrub back up FA QB.  The odds are heavily against this regime surviving after 2024 (or through) anyway and if AR goes down in 2024 there is really no hope except for the inevitable rebuild from GM on down for 2025.

If they miraculously beat all odds and have success and are short of superbowl then AR for 2025 and reboot 2026

in other words

**** drafting a QB

 

altho I reserve the right to change my mind a min of 300x before the draft.

[JohnnyLV]

On 1/15/2024 at 11:00 AM, Paradis said:

0% Chance we draft a QB in round 1 for obvious reasons beyond JD selecting to save his job in 2024... but i agree with you philosophically. 

I offer you this instead, on day 2

 

7 of the 8 teams left in the playoffs are led by first round QBs. The outlier is Purdy. Also the average age of the QBs left is like 26.8.  The Brady and Purdy picks happen once every 20 years or so. We need to get our QB in RD1 this year. Let's face it. if we pick a non QB they have at best a 50/50 chance of making a contribution next year. IMO you just cannot completely plan around a single season moon shot for Rodgers. Have no issue in taking a QB on Day 2 as well.

[JohnnyLV]

5 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

Yeah, I thought that would happen last year.

McDonald the 4th happened.  JD will eff it up. Guaranteed! 

I am totally braced for:

"With the 10th pick in the 2024 NFL Draft the New York Jets select _____________  Defensive tackle _________"

[Maxman]

11 hours ago, T0mShane said:

My hot take on this is that if Zach Wilson was in this draft class, he’d be the QB3 by a pretty wide margin, so the Jets dumping Zach for a conditional fifth and drafting his replacement at 10 overall doesn’t make much sense.

This is a great post. No way are they going QB but this makes it easy to digest.

[Sammybighead]

14 hours ago, Untouchable said:

No way

If the Jets want to take a flyer on a guy like Pratt or Travis in the 4th round as a developmental prospect to sit behind Rodgers for a couple of years, then I’m not against it.

But there’s no way in hell you allow this present administration with their asses blistering on the hot seat to sink another Top 10 pick into a QB, especially when they got the first one so spectacularly wrong.

If one of the Top 2 OT’s fall to us, great. Send up the card without thinking twice.

But of the realistic options at #10, dudes like Bowers, Odunze/Nabers and Fuaga/Mims make the most sense. 

Couldn't agree more. There is no chance they take a qb at 10 and piss off the one reason they are all still employed: rodgers.

[Paradis]

10 hours ago, JohnnyLV said:

7 of the 8 teams left in the playoffs are led by first round QBs. The outlier is Purdy. Also the average age of the QBs left is like 26.8.  The Brady and Purdy picks happen once every 20 years or so. We need to get our QB in RD1 this year. Let's face it. if we pick a non QB they have at best a 50/50 chance of making a contribution next year. IMO you just cannot completely plan around a single season moon shot for Rodgers. Have no issue in taking a QB on Day 2 as well.

you're the only one worried about 2025, or 2026 or etc. 

The JD/RS regime will lose their jobs if 2024 is a bust. All resources with be about ensuring this season is a success. Do you understand this? That will certifiably not including wasting a 1st pick in a QB who does nothing to put up Ws in 2024.

[JohnnyLV]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

you're the only one worried about 2025, or 2026 or etc. 

The JD/RS regime will lose their jobs if 2024 is a bust. All resources with be about ensuring this season is a success. Do you understand this? That will certifiably not including wasting a 1st pick in a QB who does nothing to put up Ws in 2024.

I don't agree with any of that. At all. If I am the owner I am not allowing my GM and HC to sacrifice the team and cripple the franchise for a moon shot fantasy shot in 2024. A GMs job does not include saving his own ass. I certainly do care about 2025 and 2026. I am not behind the "all resources" philosophy at all. And in almost all other cases JD and Saleh would be gone. So basically you are saying you don't give a flying faach about NFL trends or building long term success you just care about putting every egg in the 2024 basket. Screw that

[derp]

26 minutes ago, JohnnyLV said:

I don't agree with any of that. At all. If I am the owner I am not allowing my GM and HC to sacrifice the team and cripple the franchise for a moon shot fantasy shot in 2024. A GMs job does not include saving his own ass. I certainly do care about 2025 and 2026. I am not behind the "all resources" philosophy at all. And in almost all other cases JD and Saleh would be gone. So basically you are saying you don't give a flying faach about NFL trends or building long term success you just care about putting every egg in the 2024 basket. Screw that

The all resources philosophy makes no sense and would be a complete organizational failure. The owner handcuffing the GM would be a failure too. Fact is the current state of the organization is a mess. You can think it’s ridiculous, and you’d be right, but that’s where things are right now.

[Paradis]

 

39 minutes ago, JohnnyLV said:

I don't agree with any of that. At all. If I am the owner I am not allowing my GM and HC to sacrifice the team and cripple the franchise for a moon shot fantasy shot in 2024. A GMs job does not include saving his own ass. I certainly do care about 2025 and 2026. I am not behind the "all resources" philosophy at all. And in almost all other cases JD and Saleh would be gone. So basically you are saying you don't give a flying faach about NFL trends or building long term success you just care about putting every egg in the 2024 basket. Screw that

 you are wrong though. You're looking at it with hyperbole. The point you need to take away is that they're not drafting a QB in the first. They have more immediate needs in order to deliver in 2024 is which priority #1... you're dreaming if you think otherwise.

[football guy]

The Jets went into the Rodgers acquisition with a clear desire to have a succession plan. They wanted to give Zach a fresh start here and let him develop behind Aaron. That plan went to sh*t in week 1. Now, they are likely going to have to return to the drawing board in hopes of finding a replacement who can be similarly developed behind Rodgers. 

The ideal "draft and develop" candidate in this year's draft is probably JJ McCarthy. His tools and winning pedigree alone will probably be enough for teams to consider him in the 10-25 range of the 1st round (late 1st/early 2nd round grade). Unlike Michael Penix and Bo Nix (both slated to be 24-year-old rookies), McCarthy is young (turns 21 in a few days). The problem: the Jets don't have a 2nd round pick and have too many needs to use their 1st round pick on a QB, who will likely spend his rookie year as a 3rd string (see Jordan Love, 2020 season). There are other options they can look at later, but a massive drop off. 

My guess is this administration won't be given the green light to draft a QB high this year. It's no secret that this GM and HC need to win for their plan to proceed, and why would the owner let them pick another QB early if their plan goes to sh*t again? I'm just theorizing, but I expect them to put the best possible "win now" team together for 2024, then look to "reset" their original 2023 plan in 2025 if all goes well and they are extended. Rodgers has indicated he will play for 2-3 more years, when the Jets went into it figuring he would only play for 2 years. That would give them an opportunity to draft a QB next year, let him develop behind Rodgers for 1-3 years, then take over the reigns when Rodgers moves on. Someone can come out of nowhere, but right now some of the names who could wind up in the 2025 1st-2nd round conversation are Sanders, Ewers, Beck, Dart, Milroe, Allar, Stone, Klubnik, Leonard  

[Adoni Beast]

13 minutes ago, football guy said:

The Jets went into the Rodgers acquisition with a clear desire to have a succession plan. They wanted to give Zach a fresh start here and let him develop behind Aaron. That plan went to sh*t in week 1. Now, they are likely going to have to return to the drawing board in hopes of finding a replacement who can be similarly developed behind Rodgers. 

The ideal "draft and develop" candidate in this year's draft is probably JJ McCarthy. His tools and winning pedigree alone will probably be enough for teams to consider him in the 10-25 range of the 1st round (late 1st/early 2nd round grade). Unlike Michael Penix and Bo Nix (both slated to be 24-year-old rookies), McCarthy is young (turns 21 in a few days). The problem: the Jets don't have a 2nd round pick and have too many needs to use their 1st round pick on a QB, who will likely spend his rookie year as a 3rd string (see Jordan Love, 2020 season). There are other options they can look at later, but a massive drop off. 

My guess is this administration won't be given the green light to draft a QB high this year. It's no secret that this GM and HC need to win for their plan to proceed, and why would the owner let them pick another QB early if their plan goes to sh*t again? I'm just theorizing, but I expect them to put the best possible "win now" team together for 2024, then look to "reset" their original 2023 plan in 2025 if all goes well and they are extended. Rodgers has indicated he will play for 2-3 more years, when the Jets went into it figuring he would only play for 2 years. That would give them an opportunity to draft a QB next year, let him develop behind Rodgers for 1-3 years, then take over the reigns when Rodgers moves on. Someone can come out of nowhere, but right now some of the names who could wind up in the 2025 1st-2nd round conversation are Sanders, Ewers, Beck, Dart, Milroe, Allar, Stone, Klubnik, Leonard  

I wonder if there is a JJ McCarthy or QB they love that falls into the 2nd this year, would they consider trading a 2025 2nd + to get back into the 2nd this year to get him. 

Or possibly trade Huff pre-draft for a 2nd.

[T0mShane]

19 hours ago, derp said:

I mean I don’t think Douglas is looking at a QB that high anyway so it’s all kind of moot. But I think Wilson’s been a nice example of how important you need something beyond arm talent.

Ultimately I think the guys who get there on “tools” have some combination of arm talent, a physical answer against NFL caliber athletes, and a degree of poise - even if a little less than is required if you’re not an alien athletically. Josh Allen is a tank, Lamar Jackson has wheels, etc. But guys like Justin Fields and Trey Lance have the big arm and the athleticism and haven’t done it - I think that’s the poise factor.

I suspect that Douglas thought Wilson had the poise to make up for not being a freak athlete - but it turned out that poise was the security of playing behind an elite elite OL against a bunch of guys who aren’t playing football any more.

Yeah, you know I think Zach stinks and has a negligible chance of turning it around, but if we’re talking about taking Nix/Penix at ten or just hanging on to Zach Wilson on a minimum contract, I guess I’d just keep Zach Wilson and hope he improves. I also made that comment after reading this Ruiz piece about the need for QBs to be capable off-platform throwers, and that’s the  edge that Zach has on dudes like Penix and Nix, imo

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2024/1/12/24035145/jordan-love-trick-shot-throws-lamar-jackson-patrick-mahomes-packers

[football guy]

5 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

I wonder if there is a JJ McCarthy or QB they love that falls into the 2nd this year, would they consider trading a 2025 2nd + to get back into the 2nd this year to get him. 

Or possibly trade Huff pre-draft for a 2nd.

It would be an interesting discussion for sure, and I'm guessing if they pounded the table for any player they would get their wish as long as the price were reasonable, but question becomes whether its really the right move. 

Pretend you own the team and let's say the season is an unfortunate failure. You decide to clean house. You drafted a QB in the 2024 1st/2nd round who the new administration had no say in selecting, so you're now without a prime asset AND would be trying to sell the new GM/HC on inheriting a developmental QB they had no part in selecting... wouldn't you think it immediately makes the job less appealing? 

I don't know if Woody would be the person to do this, but I would think there is an understanding that if/when the 2024 season were to be a success, Joe Douglas and Robert Saleh will get extensions and will be free to chart a plan forward for the next 3+ years, just as they sought to do when they acquired Aaron. 

[football guy]

7 minutes ago, football guy said:

It would be an interesting discussion for sure, and I'm guessing if they pounded the table for any player they would get their wish as long as the price were reasonable, but question becomes whether its really the right move. 

Pretend you own the team and let's say the season is an unfortunate failure. You decide to clean house. You drafted a QB in the 2024 1st/2nd round who the new administration had no say in selecting, so you're now without a prime asset AND would be trying to sell the new GM/HC on inheriting a developmental QB they had no part in selecting... wouldn't you think it immediately makes the job less appealing? 

I don't know if Woody would be the person to do this, but I would think there is an understanding that if/when the 2024 season were to be a success, Joe Douglas and Robert Saleh will get extensions and will be free to chart a plan forward for the next 3+ years, just as they sought to do when they acquired Aaron. 

To add to this, the building does get a chance to loosely look ahead and form opinions on future players, even if they aren't neck deep in studying them. So I'm sure they will know about the potential crop next year before making selections in this draft 

[Augustiniak]

47 minutes ago, football guy said:

The Jets went into the Rodgers acquisition with a clear desire to have a succession plan. They wanted to give Zach a fresh start here and let him develop behind Aaron. That plan went to sh*t in week 1. Now, they are likely going to have to return to the drawing board in hopes of finding a replacement who can be similarly developed behind Rodgers. 

The ideal "draft and develop" candidate in this year's draft is probably JJ McCarthy. His tools and winning pedigree alone will probably be enough for teams to consider him in the 10-25 range of the 1st round (late 1st/early 2nd round grade). Unlike Michael Penix and Bo Nix (both slated to be 24-year-old rookies), McCarthy is young (turns 21 in a few days). The problem: the Jets don't have a 2nd round pick and have too many needs to use their 1st round pick on a QB, who will likely spend his rookie year as a 3rd string (see Jordan Love, 2020 season). There are other options they can look at later, but a massive drop off. 

My guess is this administration won't be given the green light to draft a QB high this year. It's no secret that this GM and HC need to win for their plan to proceed, and why would the owner let them pick another QB early if their plan goes to sh*t again? I'm just theorizing, but I expect them to put the best possible "win now" team together for 2024, then look to "reset" their original 2023 plan in 2025 if all goes well and they are extended. Rodgers has indicated he will play for 2-3 more years, when the Jets went into it figuring he would only play for 2 years. That would give them an opportunity to draft a QB next year, let him develop behind Rodgers for 1-3 years, then take over the reigns when Rodgers moves on. Someone can come out of nowhere, but right now some of the names who could wind up in the 2025 1st-2nd round conversation are Sanders, Ewers, Beck, Dart, Milroe, Allar, Stone, Klubnik, Leonard  

Agree about mccarthy but it isn’t happening.  Pratt comes to mind.  

[derp]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Yeah, you know I think Zach stinks and has a negligible chance of turning it around, but if we’re talking about taking Nix/Penix at ten or just hanging on to Zach Wilson on a minimum contract, I guess I’d just keep Zach Wilson and hope he improves. I also made that comment after reading this Ruiz piece about the need for QBs to be capable off-platform throwers, and that’s the  edge that Zach has on dudes like Penix and Nix, imo

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2024/1/12/24035145/jordan-love-trick-shot-throws-lamar-jackson-patrick-mahomes-packers

I mean Nix or Penix at ten is just an objectively bad decision whether Wilson is on the team or not. I just don’t think Wilson should factor into the decision making positively or negatively.

[Augustiniak]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Yeah, you know I think Zach stinks and has a negligible chance of turning it around, but if we’re talking about taking Nix/Penix at ten or just hanging on to Zach Wilson on a minimum contract, I guess I’d just keep Zach Wilson and hope he improves. I also made that comment after reading this Ruiz piece about the need for QBs to be capable off-platform throwers, and that’s the  edge that Zach has on dudes like Penix and Nix, imo

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2024/1/12/24035145/jordan-love-trick-shot-throws-lamar-jackson-patrick-mahomes-packers

Wilson has no edge on anyone.  There’s guys they can sign after the draft who can do what wilson did.