Joe wastes lots of money on "weapons"

[Jet_Engine1]

1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

Likes? What are you 11? LOL Also. It's The Crushy! Pal!!

[JKlecko]

3 hours ago, Claymation said:

Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment.

-Buddha
 

Keep 'em coming.  I love it!!!  LOL

[Jet_Engine1]

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Some of you REALLY need to get out of the Jets Fan Bubble once in a while.

@Raideraholic

[JKlecko]

2 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

 

Buddy Ryan was a great defensive mind, but also a bit crazy.  Somebody had to keep him under control. Even with a an all-time great D, winning a SB with Jim McMahon as QB is no easy feat.  Ditka deserves every kudo he gets for the SB victory.

[JKlecko]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

This -- it's easy to gauge in a vacuum without noting the other FA WR options at the time.

More than a couple fans here were spiking the ball at signing Perriman instead of extending the WR formerly known as Robbie Anderson, who had a career-year the next season with Carolina (before they stupidly guaranteed him much more with another ill-fated, big pay raise).

• The only other WR on the FA market that offseason was 30 year-old Randall Cobb at $9MM/year who fell short of 500 yards even with a pre-suspension Watson averaging >300 yards per week in the air.
• Every other WR available in FA was of the WR4-WR6 variety (if even that), and the Jets at that moment needed an immediate starter (who didn't exclusively line up in the slot) to replace Robbie.

Corey Davis of course didn't pan out as hoped, but

• the WR jewel of FA that year was $19MM/year Kenny Golladay.
• Best of the rest were Curtis Samuel, Nelson Agholor, TY Hilton wrapping up his career, Kendrick Bourne, Marvin Jones (ok for another year, but was a very temporary bandaid), Keelan Cole (Jets signed him), Sammy Watkins, and dozens of other WRs nobody wishes the Jets had signed.
• It's not as though he chose to sign Corey Davis instead of Mike Evans.

Lazard was likewise a big fish in a relatively small pond. An absolutely awful signing - far worse than even pessimistic people figured - but there weren't scores of better options.

• OBJ was a far bigger waste (on an annualized basis) at one year with a guaranteed minimum $15MM.
• JJSS was no better of a signing (a couple million difference, but that's no longer a significant delta on a $250MM cap) after getting carried by Mahomes the prior season. He was great as a rookie back in 2018.
• Hopkins would've clearly been a better signing, but he more or less stated publicly he didn't want to sign with the Jets even after they finished trading for Rodgers (and wasn't he asked which QBs he wanted to play for and he basically listed every name-QB except Rodgers?).
• Jakobi Meyers would've been better as well, but note that's also largely measuring his WR2 stats without Zach Wilson (and then Boyle and Siemien). Also it's debatable he had any interest in signing with the Jets after New England, and as of the time he signed in Vegas they hadn't agreed on a trade for Rodgers (the QB1 was still nominally Zach).
• Thielen was turning 33 and past visibly his prime and here he wasn't going to see the 137 targets required for him to hit 1000 yards. He was seen as a very temporary bandaid starter, not a guy you'd hopefully sign and start for 3-4 seasons.
• In his 30s already, Robert Woods quickly degraded to a WR4 (really was Houston's #5 downfield target when including Schultz, on a per-game basis), for only a few million less than Lazard. 

That's not to say these were good signings - they weren't - but they all seem far worse without any context aside from the benefits of hindsight.

GREAT post!!!!  It's too bad that your effort was probably wasted on some of the posters, but thank you for bringing some sanity and reality to the thread.  That's the problem with most of the darksiders here and on other Jets' fan sites.  They don't stop and think about the options the GMs had when they signed a FA.  They forget about the FAs who said they didn't want to play for the Jets and signed for less elsewhere.  They conveniently forget that every GM misses on draft picks and FA signings (they don't call the draft a crap shoot for nothing).  GMs should be more successful with FA signings, but there are no guarantees.  Players get injured.  Players have bad years.  Players don't fit in the scheme or don't develop chemistry with their teammates.  Those re things that the GM has no way of knowing and has no control over.  The darksiders just see everything in a vacuum.  Too bad that's not what life is like.

The other thing that you failed to mention that the darksiders have forgotten with regards to Lazard and Cobb is that Rodgers wanted them.  Woody is the one who really wanted Rodgers and probably told JD to give Rodgers whatever he wanted, especially after Rodgers took a contract cut to help the team.  He paid for Lazard and Cobb,

BTW who is JJSS?

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, JKlecko said:

GREAT post!!!!  It's too bad that your effort was probably wasted on some of the posters, but thank you for bringing some sanity and reality to the thread.  That's the problem with most of the darksiders here and on other Jets' fan sites.  They don't stop and think about the options the GMs had when they signed a FA.  They forget about the FAs who said they didn't want to play for the Jets and signed for less elsewhere.  They conveniently forget that every GM misses on draft picks and FA signings (they don't call the draft a crap shoot for nothing).  GMs should be more successful with FA signings, but there are no guarantees.  Players get injured.  Players have bad years.  Players don't fit in the scheme or don't develop chemistry with their teammates.  Those re things that the GM has no way of knowing and has no control over.  The darksiders just see everything in a vacuum.  Too bad that's not what life is like.

The other thing that you failed to mention that the darksiders have forgotten with regards to Lazard and Cobb is that Rodgers wanted them.  Woody is the one who really wanted Rodgers and probably told JD to give Rodgers whatever he wanted, especially after Rodgers took a contract cut to help the team.  He paid for Lazard and Cobb,

BTW who is JJSS?

JuJu Smith-Schuster

[DoubleDown]

Free agency in general is a place where teams end up overspending.  Occasionally you get a diamond in the rough, but by and large, there is a reason these players are available.  Their teams in general did not think they were worth the money to extend/resign.

Some of the players listed in the first post were worth a shot and a decent gamble (Davis, Uzomah, Hardman).  Some were very predictably bad signings at the time they were made (Lazard, Cobb).  I noticed the free agency wins were conveniently, and not surprisingly, left out (Reed, Huff, Quincy Williams, Conklin, Whitehead, Zuerlein).

You win some, you lose some.  You can't have a team full of nothing but draft picks.  The roster needs to be filled out by someone.  You take some swings.  Some hit, some miss.  It's very much dependent on who is available and how many teams have money to spend.  You can't just judge in a vacuum without any context.

[JKlecko]

58 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

It has also baffled me that a site that is created for fans of the Jets,  has also drawn a share of people that are fervently positive, and choose to see the good in players and the club and extoll that. Sunnysiders, as it were. It is almost as if they are fanatical in their support. Extremely interesting phenomenon.

These "you guys" that you speak of probably fit that stereotype, for whatever reason. 

😀

 

Nice response!  Posts like the one you quote are exactly why I have him on ignore.  The guy is clueless.

[JKlecko]

8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

JuJu Smith-Schuster

Thanks.  I've been working outside and the sun must have cooked my brain.  I couldn't come up with that to save my  life. I sat here racking my brain, and finally had to ask.

[Doggin94it]

30 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Some of you REALLY need to get out of the Jets Fan Bubble once in a while.

If this is your list of big, reputation-making wins/stars, you really need a reality check.

0-0 as of now, and one key injury away from another 7 win season.

GM's don't win extension on paper in August.  They win it with results on the field in Dec and Jan.

Like I said, we go 12-4 and win a few playoff games, my opinion of JD will change.

Fish, Quincy Williams was an all-pro last year. I'm not sure how you think those are selected but it's not by Jet-fan Bubble. Carter is pretty widely recognized as a top-tier slot corner in the NFL (for example https://sports.yahoo.com/michael-carter-ii-pff-top-003453897.html). Bryce Huff got himself a 17M per year contract from the Eagles, who, last I checked, aren't in the Jets Fan Bubble.

Anyway, yeah, I get it. Games are played on the field, not on paper. But also, the GM doesn't play those games, or coach them. GMs set the table, stock the roster. He's done as good a job at that as anyone can reasonably ask for heading into this season. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, DoubleDown said:

Free agency in general is a place where teams end up overspending.  Occasionally you get a diamond in the rough, but by and large, there is a reason these players are available.  Their teams in general did not think they were worth the money to extend/resign.

Some of the players listed in the first post were worth a shot and a decent gamble (Davis, Uzomah, Hardman).  Some were very predictably bad signings at the time they were made (Lazard, Cobb).  I noticed the free agency wins were conveniently, and not surprisingly, left out (Reed, Huff, Quincy Williams, Conklin, Whitehead, Zuerlein).

You win some, you lose some.  You can't have a team full of nothing but draft picks.  The roster needs to be filled out by someone.  You take some swings.  Some hit, some miss.

Andy Reid & company guaranteed Sammy Watkins $16MM/year (WR1 money at the time). Had about a handful of WR1-ish games and missed all or most of almost 20 games in his 3 seasons there. 

That's not to say they haven't made other badly overpaid signings at other positions in the Reid era, let alone how many among the other 30 teams (other than KC or our Jets).

Bad FA signings happen to the best of them. Sucks every time.

[Warfish]

11 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

He's done as good a job at that as anyone can reasonably ask for heading into this season. 

And if he was a first or second year GM, that might mean more.

His a 6th year GM with a horrible, lopsided W-L record, and again, just as many or more huge fail moves and good moves. 

Folks right now just forget all the bad moves because :hype: for 2024.  

Regardless, it's moot, the optimism here at JN is off the charts and anyone who doesn't think this is the best roster in Jets history and doesn't think we're destined to win 14 games and a Super Bowl is an ignorant hater non-fan.  /shrug, I guess that's me.

Let's see this great on paper team win week 1.  Maybe then we'll have something actually worth talking about.

[CanadaSteve]

This is EXACTLY what the board needs:  Another thread adding up all of his failures without talking about any of his successes.

Must be a slow day at camp.....

[Barry McCockinner]

I wonder if other fanbases obsess about money the team spends like ours does.

[Barry McCockinner]

13 minutes ago, Warfish said:

And if he was a first or second year GM, that might mean more.

His a 6th year GM with a horrible, lopsided W-L record, and again, just as many or more huge fail moves and good moves. 

Folks right now just forget all the bad moves because :hype: for 2024.  

Regardless, it's moot, the optimism here at JN is off the charts and anyone who doesn't think this is the best roster in Jets history and doesn't think we're destined to win 14 games and a Super Bowl is an ignorant hater non-fan.  /shrug, I guess that's me.

Let's see this great on paper team win week 1.  Maybe then we'll have something actually worth talking about.

The record sucks mainly because he failed at QB w/Wilson. Then he traded for a very good one which we're excited to see. Obviously QB is the biggest difference maker in football. This is all pretty straight forward and obvious.

I feel bad for fans who cannot indulge in projecting based on the strength of the roster. Seems like a miserable fan experience to just sit in the sh*t of the past and waft it around.

enjoy!

[Claymation]

6 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I wonder if other fanbases obsess about money the team spends like ours does.

Mets fanbase, with the Wilpons and with Uncle Steve.

[jgb]

4 hours ago, The Crusher said:

You do realize that a team that has as extensive a losing record as the Jets would naturally create frustration and at some times I admit it gets a little bit much.  Like last year, everyone was pretty excited pre season and then AR8 go's down after 4 plays and even our Miserable Nation Captain quit after 4 plays. So you acting like 13-4 is a foregone conclusion is nothing less than Trolling. Then using it as an excuse to call Jet fans Jets fans are the bestd is absolutely trolling. Look at your sig you clown, but yeah your not trolling Jet fans. So keep it up. 

His signature is pretty ironic considered the most optimistic Jets fans -- such as himself -- have been the most wrong since basically forever. So... clueless? Mirror up.

[Bowles Movement]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

In terms of his reputation as a GM, yes, that about it.

"His reputation" =/= the overall state of the roster today as seen by fans and the projection of greatness you guys have for it, nor the replacement level stater guys or yet-to-prove-themselves drafted guys as of now.  MCII and QW aren't stars in anyone minds but the Homer Jets Fans, most fans int his league have barely heard of them, if that.  You guys hyperinflate our players greatness to a laughable degree on even the most JAG/fringe guys.

Reputation = the big, great, meaningful, star, all-pro GM moves he's made that worked out well.  Known league wide, and by non-Jets Fans.  Like Wilson, Sauce and Hall.  Those names people outside the Jets Fan bubble know.  MCII?  Lol, ok.

And reputation is not things that Jets Fans think will work out, but have actually worked out.  Proven, not projected by the perennial optimists.

Reputations are made on winning, first and foremost, and then on great moves and studs, stars, huge wins in personnel moves.  HOF'ers, all-pros, studs.  Not drafting a decent #3 depth corner like MCII in the 5th.

Hence why Rodgers isn't on the list as I posted it.  If Rodgers wins a title in 2024, that trade goes on this list.  Today, 4 plays, 50 million in cost and a suck season, no it doesn't go on the list.

Is this really that hard to suss out for all of you?

You guys are convinced we've already won the Super Bowl in 2024, and are crediting JD for it already.

Reality is, we're good on paper only as of now, with a long list of poor moves over the six years of JD's tenure longer than the successful moves as of now. moves so many of you seem to forget or block out of your minds as if they never happened, lol.   

If 2024 changes that, I'll change my opinion on JD.  Not before.

Ok.  We re going to have to agree to disagree.

JJ, Sauce, Quinnen and Quincy Williams, DJ Reed, Sherwood, Carter 2nd and Adams were all brought in or resigned by Douglas and contributed to their top 5 Defense the last 2 yrs.  Huff an udfa was signed by Philly for big money.

On offense you have Garrett, Breece, AVT, Tippman and the O line guys they brought in this year.   Yes the jury is out on some of these draft picks but even the most pessimistic viewer sees Olu playing well, Allen playing well, and Stiggers playing well.

Many league experts predict playoffs or better for the Jets this year.   You prefer to “see it” before agreeing- thats your prerogative but it doesn't erase the accumulation of talent that everybody but you apparently sees.

Id like to know whats your prediction in wins for this years team?  Do they win 10 or more games?  Do they make the playoffs?

[Bronx]

5 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

We have the most talented roster we have had since 1998.  

Breakdown every roster since 1988 to support your hypothesis. 

[bicketybam]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

MCII and QW aren't stars in anyone minds but the Homer Jets Fan

Are you referencing all pro first team Quincy Williams? Those guys tend to be very good 😅

https://www.newyorkjets.com/news/quincy-williams-sauce-gardner-nfl-all-pro-2023-season

 

[bicketybam]

3 minutes ago, Bronx said:

Breakdown every roster since 1988 to support your hypothesis. 

Do your own homework.

[Bowles Movement]

1 hour ago, JKlecko said:

I agree, but you're probably wasting your time and energy responding.  Some Jets fans are just miserable.  All they can see are the negatives, and it has made them so jaded that they develop unrealistic expectations of GMs and HCs, especially when there is a meddling doofus as an owner. 

We won 7 games last yr without a QB.

Im excited to see how we do with a full team this year.

But to your point, there are a lot of miserable ****s on here who wont be happy with anything less than a Super Bowl victory, and even then will find something to bitch about.

[Bronx]

5 hours ago, BradSmith16fan said:

How about drafting Michael Carter II, signing DJ Reed, picking up Huff and Quincy Williams off waivers, drafting Jermaine?

He is great picking up cheap contracts, but a total bust with higher draft picks. 

[Bowles Movement]

5 minutes ago, Bronx said:

Breakdown every roster since 1988 to support your hypothesis. 

You re also free to refute it by breaking down every roster since.

[BradSmith16fan]

Just now, Bronx said:

He is great picking up cheap contracts, but a total bust with higher draft picks. 

Do you think the Sauce, Wilson, Breece, Jermaine, and to an extent Tucker picks wash out the Becton, Mims, Moore, and Zach Picks? Or does the Zach pick compound the negative because of the position?

[Bronx]

2 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

Do your own homework.

I don't think so.  I am not the one claiming this hypothesis. Do you know the story of Ancel Keys or Will Keith Kellogg?  Anyone can make glorious assumptions without actually challenging their own ideas.  

PS. Leave my cock alone.  

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, Pac said:

You having some kind of episode? 

The Crushy called Joe a clown, deservedly, one time a week or so back and Joe is still taking it really badly.  

[Bronx]

5 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said:

You re also free to refute it by breaking down every roster since.

LMAO.. Nope. 

[Cut Jet Penalty Makers]

5 hours ago, kmnj said:

Corry Davis     37 million-absolute trash

Allan Lazard    44 million-trash was so bad -he was benched-now some will say he had no qb well G Wilson had no QB and still caught the ball and produced. 

Hardman        4 million-trash sent packing

Cobb             3 million- a charity case 

Perriman         8 million-trash 

CJ Uzomah     24 million -I have almost as many catches as he has 

I can understand why Woody does not want Joe throwing around his money.

about half of that money was guaranteed as well

I didnt even include guys  that busted out on rookie deals that were high draft picks -Wilson Mims 

Post of the decade.

[Bronx]

3 minutes ago, BradSmith16fan said:

Do you think the Sauce, Wilson, Breece, Jermaine, and to an extent Tucker picks wash out the Becton, Mims, Moore, and Zach Picks? Or does the Zach pick compound the negative because of the position?

He had one good year when the Texans dropped the ball on Sauce, for example.  The Zach Wilson pick trumps most of it. 

[BradSmith16fan]

9 minutes ago, Bronx said:

He had one good year when the Texans dropped the ball on Sauce, for example.  The Zach Wilson pick trumps most of it. 

That's true, the Texans did drop the ball. JD could have also if he drafted Ickey the OL prospect, but he didn't. He did make savvy moves with trading up for Johnson and Hall. I see your point on Zach, he was that bad. Hopefully Mcdonald pans out.

[Claymation]

13 minutes ago, Bronx said:

He had one good year when the Texans dropped the ball on Sauce, for example.  The Zach Wilson pick trumps most of it. 

Stingley is pretty good as well.

 

[bicketybam]

17 minutes ago, Bronx said:

I don't think so.  I am not the one claiming this hypothesis. Do you know the story of Ancel Keys or Will Keith Kellogg?  Anyone can make glorious assumptions without actually challenging their own ideas.  

PS. Leave my cock alone.  

[RutgersJetFan]

I too am excited to see them try the exact same thing they did last year.

[Warfish]

47 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I feel bad for fans who cannot indulge in projecting based on the strength of the roster. Seems like a miserable fan experience to just sit in the sh*t of the past and waft it around.

Well, if we're expressing our feelings, I feel bad for fans who cannot help but worry about how much optimism other fans have, and let that seemingly effect them as deeply as some folks around here do, lol.

Here is an idea, worry about your own fan experience.  Don't worry about mine.  Be assured, it's not miserable or any other similar word you might wish it to be. 

When we win, it's great, when we lose, it's meh, which I presume is pretty common for fans the world around. 

My optimism level in August doesn't really play a part tbqh.