New York Jets, Haason Reddick Contract Saga No Longer About Fines. Game checks are now on the line, to the tune of $852,941 for each game missed.

[JetsMetsDevilsPA]

4 minutes ago, Claymation said:

The best he can hope for next season if he is successful is a prove it deal from some other team. Why would any team invest in him if he is not going to be professional about his contract?

Agree Completely.  I'm actually hoping they set the forms last night and are pouring concrete this morning to lock his ass out permanently.

[EM31]

NFL owners are willing to risk a collusion charge in order to pay him ZERO for his next deal.

It is about sending a message to every other single player in the league at this point.

[Vader]

42 minutes ago, Biggs said:

What makes you think Woody actually cares?   NFL owners might consider having a player in a bind like this is better than wining a SB.

I don’t think anything. I’m describing a negotiation strategy I am familiar with from my education and experience in my career. It often fails. Woody is a mark however because he does care about what people think about him, his franchise has garbage results over his tenure, he’s desperate to change his juju and he’s been played as a mark before.

[ARodJetsFan]

41 minutes ago, Claymation said:

The best he can hope for next season if he is successful is a prove it deal from some other team. Why would any team invest in him if he is not going to be professional about his contract?

I've said this several times, he'll be on one year prove it deals, the rest of his career.

Nobody will risk signing Reddick to a multi-year deal the way he & his agents choose to handle their business.

[EM31]

First of all I am not talking about contracts being non-guaranteed.  Players get up front money to protect against being out in the out years.

Contracts.

Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose and sometimes to get exactly what you paid for.

If player plays to his contract number -  Player gets paid the full contract amount

If player is injured or plays worse than his contract number - Player still gets the full amount (tough luck on the GM basically)

If player outplays his number or if the market gets stronger - Player should be able to unilaterally renegotiate terms while still under contract

Do people see how this is a nightmare for every GM in the league  IF ANY TEAM  folds to this kind of pressure?

 

[#27TheDominator]

9 hours ago, ARodJetsFan said:

Haason Reddick willing to go to extreme lengths to avoid NY Jets (REPORT) (thejetpress.com)

Reddick can hold out until the Tuesday following Week 10. If he doesn't report by that date, his contract would toll and he would not generate an accrued season. He will report before that date.

Reddick could also attempt to show up with an "injury" in the hopes that he's placed on injured reserve and receives what's known as "full pay status" for six regular-season games, per the NFL's Collective Bargaining Agreement.

The issue with that is the Jets could deny his request to be placed on IR if they believe the injury is fabricated. The result could be a very messy legal battle between Reddick and the Jets that results in grievances being filed to the league's office. But in theory, if Reddick wins his case, he could not play in every game this year.

The date to watch is the Tuesday following Week 10, which is Nov. 12. That's the longest Reddick can continue to hold out completely tanking his career, although it should be noted that he would lose significant money and decimate his value. That's not a smart strategy.

Which one of you guys is Jets Press?  He can't show up with an injury.  That just gets him dumped on the non-football injury list and we keep him next year.  That's why Jonathan Taylor freaked out when the Colts said he reported with "back pain" at the end of his rookie deal.  NFi is basically the same as if he just holds out.  He has to come to camp and then scream "ooh! ooh! my hammy!"  Like when some slacker tweaks his back because he finally didn't skip leg day on Friday.  He doesn't run to the hospital.  He sucks it up until work on Monday and then claims he hurt it moving pallets so he can get worker's comp.

9 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

The goal tomorrow is not to win but rather to "embarrass the opposing quarterback".

Yes, this is one time where that might be the right strategy.  Embarrass Purdy and ruin Reddick's "leverage."   Some people seem to find that more important than the W.

[#27TheDominator]

23 minutes ago, EM31 said:

First of all I am not talking about contracts being non-guaranteed.  Players get up front money to protect against being out in the out years.

Contracts.

Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose and sometimes to get exactly what you paid for.

If player plays to his contract number -  Player gets paid the full contract amount

If player is injured or plays worse than his contract number - Player still gets the full amount (tough luck on the GM basically)

If player outplays his number or if the market gets stronger - Player should be able to unilaterally renegotiate terms while still under contract

Do people see how this is a nightmare for every GM in the league  IF ANY TEAM  folds to this kind of pressure?

 

Well, the whole system has been a nightmare for players since the dawn of the league.  First no free agency at all, then these slotted contracts.  Very little guarantee in the contracts.  If Reddick underperformed and reverted back to his Cardinals play the Eagles don't "lose" they just cut him and pay Bryce Huff.  

[Sperm Edwards]

7 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Well, the whole system has been a nightmare for players since the dawn of the league.  First no free agency at all, then these slotted contracts.  Very little guarantee in the contracts.  If Reddick underperformed and reverted back to his Cardinals play the Eagles don't "lose" they just cut him and pay Bryce Huff.  

The Jets should have just cut Allen Lazard without losing anything.  

[nycdan]

9 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Well, the whole system has been a nightmare for players since the dawn of the league.  First no free agency at all, then these slotted contracts.  Very little guarantee in the contracts.  If Reddick underperformed and reverted back to his Cardinals play the Eagles don't "lose" they just cut him and pay Bryce Huff.  

I may be misunderstanding your point here, but Reddick signed a $45M contract for 3 years with the Eagles that paid him a $15M up-front signing bonus and had another $15M guaranteed.  That means if he sucked, and they cut him after 2 seasons, he still got about $30M for the 2 years he played (badly in this hypothetical) situation.  The third year was pretty much the non-guaranteed part that paid roughly the same $15M he got for the first two years.  So his only risks when signing that contract were:

1) He might underperform and only get paid for 2 years instead of 3 but then become a FA.  

2) He might overperform and be underpaid in his 3rd year.

I think GMs look at this as a win some / lose some and hopefully it averages out over the roster.  Some players will be cashing checks they didn't earn.  Some will be outplaying their deals and essentially covering the other guys.  That's pretty much how insurance works.  The ones who outplay their contracts will likely make it up on the next contracts (many of whom will likely underperform at some point in their careers).

Also, don't blame the league unilaterally for slotted rookie contracts.  The NFLPA was very much a participant in that arrangement so vets could get paid more and rookies could 'pay their dues'.  Even so, 1st round rookies, while not getting Sam Bradford money, are getting paid very well.

 

[#27TheDominator]

FWIW, I think that people are digging too hard trying to get into the minds of these people. 

Reddick does not have much reason to hate the Jets.  It's the Eagles that told him they would rethink the deal if he was outperforming it when the last non-guaranteed year rolled around.  The only reason for him to hate the Jets is them leaking the stuff where he supposedly said he would come in to camp first and then discuss a new deal.  For all the claims in here about him looking to pressure Woody, his camp has not really spouted off about the Jets.  Seems like there are plenty of opportunities to point and scream Mickey Mouse, but they have remained pretty silent.

Plenty of people acting like Reddick's personality has driven teams away and that is why the Jets got him so cheap.  I am not a true Haason Reddick expert, but I have said what I consider the reason many times.  He is a 240 lb EDGE.  The league is looking for most of these guys to be over 260.  He is basically a DE in a LB body.  Who is actually looking for that?  Teams want LB in DE bodies, not the other way around.  He is an aging guy that will ideally be a DPR on all but a few teams.  Sort of like Aaron Maybin at his ceiling.  People looked for all the reasons Maybin was cut (ADHD, etc) but the main thing was just that he was a S sized dude trying to play DE.  Reddick is better than that, but he is not the sought out prototype. 

[#27TheDominator]

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The Jets should have just cut Allen Lazard without losing anything.  

Like they will next year, when he is underperforming his 3 year deal.

[#27TheDominator]

4 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I may be misunderstanding your point here, but Reddick signed a $45M contract for 3 years with the Eagles that paid him a $15M up-front signing bonus and had another $15M guaranteed.  That means if he sucked, and they cut him after 2 seasons, he still got about $30M for the 2 years he played (badly in this hypothetical) situation.  The third year was pretty much the non-guaranteed part that paid roughly the same $15M he got for the first two years.  So his only risks when signing that contract were:

1) He might underperform and only get paid for 2 years instead of 3 but then become a FA.  

2) He might overperform and be underpaid in his 3rd year.

I think GMs look at this as a win some / lose some and hopefully it averages out over the roster.  Some players will be cashing checks they didn't earn.  Some will be outplaying their deals and essentially covering the other guys.  That's pretty much how insurance works.  The ones who outplay their contracts will likely make it up on the next contracts (many of whom will likely underperform at some point in their careers).

Also, don't blame the league unilaterally for slotted rookie contracts.  The NFLPA was very much a participant in that arrangement so vets could get paid more and rookies could 'pay their dues'.  Even so, 1st round rookies, while not getting Sam Bradford money, are getting paid very well.

 

The NFLPA is a joke.  The slotted contracts were an easy win since they forced the hand of people that weren't voting members - rookies.  The last bastion of the free market in the NFL.

Teams and agents have been trying to make things as fair as possible as the rules change.  You just said that Reddick signed for 3/$45M, and already got $30M, but they generally express that if things are going well they will extend before that point.  Just the way the board is often harping on Joe D being a lame duck.  

I am not in favor of folding to Reddick.  Not at all, but look at the league.  The squeaky wheel has been getting the grease.

[nycdan]

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

The NFLPA is a joke.  The slotted contracts were an easy win since they forced the hand of people that weren't voting members - rookies.  The last bastion of the free market in the NFL.

Teams and agents have been trying to make things as fair as possible as the rules change.  You just said that Reddick signed for 3/$45M, and already got $30M, but they generally express that if things are going well they will extend before that point.  Just the way the board is often harping on Joe D being a lame duck.  

I am not in favor of folding to Reddick.  Not at all, but look at the league.  The squeaky wheel has been getting the grease.

Let's take just that one point.  If things are going well, teams are usually happy to rework contracts to keep the successful player on the team.  You might assume that since they were happy to let him go for minimal compensation, that 'things' were not going as well as his stats would imply.  Looking at what followed, one could further assume the Eagles weren't completely smoking fat blunts on this issue.

Don't cry for Reddick either.  He ultimately can play out this season and hold court with every GM to get the deal he thinks he deserves (or not).  He doesn't have a player option to get out of his contract so it's hard to be sympathetic to a guy who signed the contract, got paid $30M, and is willing to toss up to $15M out the window to make some murky point.  

And as for rookies, the league was simply fed up with rookie holdouts.  Once a team drafted a rookie, they were in a tough situation and agents were trying to squeeze them.  It was bad for fans, teams, veterans, and the league.  Slotting shut most of that down while still getting rookies paid very well.  Just not 6 years / $72M for an unproven rookie who ultimately did not come anywhere near deserving that money.

[Dcat]

So....  can anyone answer?   

As of 8:30 tonight, will Reddick have forfeited his 1st reg season game check?

At any point today, can he walk in to the Santa Clara hotel or wherever the Jets are practicing and say "I'm here" and still get his game check?

[nycdan]

5 minutes ago, Dcat said:

So....  can anyone answer?   

As of 8:30 tonight, will Reddick have forfeited his 1st reg season game check?

At any point today, can he walk in to the Santa Clara hotel or wherever the Jets are practicing and say "I'm here" and still get his game check?

I would start with "Is Haason Reddick even in San Francisco today?"

I assume not.

[Smashmouth]

I keep seeing the comment "players back other players when it comes down to getting paid" but thats usually players they have played with,  paid thier dues on the team they are having the dispute with and basically players they actually have a relationship with.

I'm not sure how much players back a guy like Reddick who was traded to the team, went back on his word when the team was willing to negotiate, and did not even bother to show up to the facility. Players will never speak out on the situation but Im willing to bet they are not very happy about this situation either.

The Jets probably have looked into trading him very quitely and are not getting any takers and IMHO if that is the case is it better to just cut ties a rid themselves of this distraction, or do we get something if he stays and becoems a free agent next year ? Do we get a comp pick if he does not play or get paid ? If not, Release him at the appropraite time and let him destroy whats left of his career at 30 years old. 

Personally I will have a very hard time rooting for this guy as a Jet I don't want him on this team.

[Dcat]

1 minute ago, nycdan said:

I would start with "Is Haason Reddick even in San Francisco today?"

I assume not.

Then is it definite that gamecheck #1 has been forfeited?

This idiot is Lev Belling his career.  I'm sorry, but he is one stupid, stupid person.

[Biggs]

1 hour ago, Vader said:

I don’t think anything. I’m describing a negotiation strategy I am familiar with from my education and experience in my career. It often fails. Woody is a mark however because he does care about what people think about him, his franchise has garbage results over his tenure, he’s desperate to change his juju and he’s been played as a mark before.

Woody is a criminal tax cheat.  The only thing he's really thinking about is how to hide the cap gains from being taxed when he sells.  

[nycdan]

According to this, he's up to $5M in fines so far and another $800k for missing this game.  I assume the $300k discretionary fine won't stick but still, dude....$5.5M out of your $15M salary.  There is no realistic outcome where he makes that lost money up.  No NFL team is looking to give him the deal he wants at this time.  The only way out of this is to play and play well.  Instead he will become another case study in how not to negotiate in the NFL.

 

 

 

[Smashmouth]

3 minutes ago, nycdan said:

According to this, he's up to $5M in fines so far and another $800k for missing this game.  I assume the $300k discretionary fine won't stick but still, dude....$5.5M out of your $15M salary.  There is no realistic outcome where he makes that lost money up.  No NFL team is looking to give him the deal he wants at this time.  The only way out of this is to play and play well.  Instead he will become another case study in how not to negotiate in the NFL.

 

 

 

We don't need dumb players on this team and this guy is dumb

[Dcat]

5 minutes ago, nycdan said:

 

What in the world is a "Discretionary Fine" ?   LOL.  Yeah... in the discretion of the Jets, the team elects to keep an additional $300,000.  Cool.

[EM31]

18 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Well, the whole system has been a nightmare for players since the dawn of the league.  First no free agency at all, then these slotted contracts.  Very little guarantee in the contracts.  If Reddick underperformed and reverted back to his Cardinals play the Eagles don't "lose" they just cut him and pay Bryce Huff.  

The slotted contracts for rookies did not raise or lower the salary cap by one penny.  All it did was to lock in the portion of the cap that was allocated to rookies and by extension what was left to be divided by the veterans. The players wanted that as much or more than the owners did.

If Reddick reverted to a lesser level of play he would get 2/3rds of his deal and would be free to make himself another with a new team in year-3.  As a practical matter that was not much of a risk on his part.  In that scenario however the Eagles would have paid a full two years worth of sub par performances.  Risks on both sides at the very least.

I am not saying that the CBA is perfect but the deal for the players is way better than it ever was before and I am sure it will be modified in the future.  If Reddick has been treated poorly which I do not believe then it is the Eagles who did that.  Maybe they implied or even flat out told him that he would get a new deal if he played well.  I don't know and neither does anyone else who was not in the room.

Right now if he gets rewarded for this negotiating position then every franchise needs to be very scared that it provides a roadmap for any player out there who outplays a contract.  You can start with Quincy Williams.

[Larz]

 

[#27TheDominator]

44 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Let's take just that one point.  If things are going well, teams are usually happy to rework contracts to keep the successful player on the team.  You might assume that since they were happy to let him go for minimal compensation, that 'things' were not going as well as his stats would imply.  Looking at what followed, one could further assume the Eagles weren't completely smoking fat blunts on this issue.

Don't cry for Reddick either.  He ultimately can play out this season and hold court with every GM to get the deal he thinks he deserves (or not).  He doesn't have a player option to get out of his contract so it's hard to be sympathetic to a guy who signed the contract, got paid $30M, and is willing to toss up to $15M out the window to make some murky point.  

And as for rookies, the league was simply fed up with rookie holdouts.  Once a team drafted a rookie, they were in a tough situation and agents were trying to squeeze them.  It was bad for fans, teams, veterans, and the league.  Slotting shut most of that down while still getting rookies paid very well.  Just not 6 years / $72M for an unproven rookie who ultimately did not come anywhere near deserving that money.

I'm not crying for anyone.  

The issue that Reddick was basically in an impossible situation.  The Eagles (intelligently) want to pay him based on what he will do, not what he has done.  He did enough to get more, but will he going forward?  I don't think so, which is why I don't want the Jets to fold.  

The rookie slotting thing worked out well for fans, teams and the league.  I don't think it worked out very well for players at the top.  Trevor Lawrence could have written his own ticket.  The draft itself is basically for the fans and to help the league maintain parity, but it ****s the players in the ass.  A guy like Reddick was stuck in Arizona playing out of position for the prime years of his career.

[Dax89]

On the bright side, every game he sits out helps our cap situation.  

[nycdan]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

I'm not crying for anyone.  

The issue that Reddick was basically in an impossible situation.  The Eagles (intelligently) want to pay him based on what he will do, not what he has done.  He did enough to get more, but will he going forward?  I don't think so, which is why I don't want the Jets to fold.  

The rookie slotting thing worked out well for fans, teams and the league.  I don't think it worked out very well for players at the top.  Trevor Lawrence could have written his own ticket.  The draft itself is basically for the fans and to help the league maintain parity, but it ****s the players in the ass.  A guy like Reddick was stuck in Arizona playing out of position for the prime years of his career.

That last part is a really valid argument, but without the draft, parity would be completely dead.  Some players kind of get screwed for a few years (which for many is their entire careers).  They do get paid well for those years but yeah, for some it's a tough road.

[#27TheDominator]

26 minutes ago, EM31 said:

The slotted contracts for rookies did not raise or lower the salary cap by one penny.  All it did was to lock in the portion of the cap that was allocated to rookies and by extension what was left to be divided by the veterans. The players wanted that as much or more than the owners did.

If Reddick reverted to a lesser level of play he would get 2/3rds of his deal and would be free to make himself another with a new team in year-3.  As a practical matter that was not much of a risk on his part.  In that scenario however the Eagles would have paid a full two years worth of sub par performances.  Risks on both sides at the very least.

I am not saying that the CBA is perfect but the deal for the players is way better than it ever was before and I am sure it will be modified in the future.  If Reddick has been treated poorly which I do not believe then it is the Eagles who did that.  Maybe they implied or even flat out told him that he would get a new deal if he played well.  I don't know and neither does anyone else who was not in the room.

Right now if he gets rewarded for this negotiating position then every franchise needs to be very scared that it provides a roadmap for any player out there who outplays a contract.  You can start with Quincy Williams.

Better than it was before?  Like when superstars had to rot waiting for a chance to get playing time because teams were stashing guys behind hall of famers?  Every contract it gets better. 

As I said, I do not support giving Reddick a new deal.  I agree that I don't want to set that precedent and that is how the game is played under this set of rules.  That doesn't mean that this set of rules is inherently fair, or that I don't support players doing what they can to maximize earnings. 

[nycdan]

3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Better than it was before?  Like when superstars had to rot waiting for a chance to get playing time because teams were stashing guys behind hall of famers?  Every contract it gets better. 

As I said, I do not support giving Reddick a new deal.  I agree that I don't want to set that precedent and that is how the game is played under this set of rules.  That doesn't mean that this set of rules is inherently fair, or that I don't support players doing what they can to maximize earnings. 

Do you think Reddick's actions have any chance at all of maximizing his earnings?

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Like they will next year, when he is underperforming his 3 year deal.

Of course they will... but they surely wanted to do before this season -- or frankly, by midseason in 2023, too.

[GangGreened]

WMD 1.5 sacks tonight 

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, Vader said:

I’m not making predictions. I’m describing a negotiation strategy that is predicated on pressuring Woody Johnson due to the narrow Super Bowl window.

If you were right, Woody would have signed Reddick, extended him long ago.  He doesn’t need to get permission to pay whoever he wants, whatever he wants.  

[Biggs]

1 hour ago, nycdan said:

Let's take just that one point.  If things are going well, teams are usually happy to rework contracts to keep the successful player on the team.  You might assume that since they were happy to let him go for minimal compensation, that 'things' were not going as well as his stats would imply.  Looking at what followed, one could further assume the Eagles weren't completely smoking fat blunts on this issue.

Don't cry for Reddick either.  He ultimately can play out this season and hold court with every GM to get the deal he thinks he deserves (or not).  He doesn't have a player option to get out of his contract so it's hard to be sympathetic to a guy who signed the contract, got paid $30M, and is willing to toss up to $15M out the window to make some murky point.  

And as for rookies, the league was simply fed up with rookie holdouts.  Once a team drafted a rookie, they were in a tough situation and agents were trying to squeeze them.  It was bad for fans, teams, veterans, and the league.  Slotting shut most of that down while still getting rookies paid very well.  Just not 6 years / $72M for an unproven rookie who ultimately did not come anywhere near deserving that money.

What does deserving the money mean when the players as a group are slotted a share of the revenue.  The owners are completely protected by rookies holding out.  It doesn't cost them any money.  The lockout by the owners was simply about the share of the pie.

You can't pretend the NFL is a normal company operating in a Captialist system and the labor is negiotating based on value in a free market.  The owners have set the market, how the money is distributed to the players makes not one bit of difference to the owners on a cash basis.  

The Union threw the rookies under the bus because the rookies were actually able to negiotate their value and the veteran players wanted more of the players share.  The Union had already caved on the share.

[Mr. Rogers]

29 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

The rookie slotting thing worked out well for fans, teams and the league.  I don't think it worked out very well for players at the top.  Trevor Lawrence could have written his own ticket.  The draft itself is basically for the fans and to help the league maintain parity, but it ****s the players in the ass.  A guy like Reddick was stuck in Arizona playing out of position for the prime years of his career.

This is true, but don't forget the other main reason for the rookie slots. Those contracts at the top were getting truly absurd - the likes of Russell, Bradford and Stafford getting paid more than almost anyone in the league was a recipe for disaster and discontent. Also, it was becoming a significant hassle from a team budgeting perspective, leaving rebuilding teams much less room to work with and build solid teams. It's no wonder the bottom teams often seemed to stay at the bottom during that era. 

Other draftees have benefitted significantly too, in terms of getting more guaranteed money and better salaries than they did in the era of crazy first round pick contracts. I think the NFLPA was (relatively) happy to work with the NFL on that one knowing effectivel everyone but a few players benefitted. And first round picks still get generational wealth worth's guaranteed money, even if it's not the $50m+ guaranteed it used to be. 

Anyway, the NFL and NFLPA have many bad things to answer for, but that's one area I haven't seen many complaints about. My top NFLPA question right now is whether they'll still support Reddick next year if he holds out all year. I think they would on principle but that doesn't seem to be a popular view here.

[Mr. Rogers]

26 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Do you think Reddick's actions have any chance at all of maximizing his earnings?

To the extent that he is avoiding injury while having no guaranteed money left on his contract, actually, sort of?

I don't think he was wrong to hold out. I just don't see why he won't come renegotiate and get the guaranteed money he deserves to play. Even if it's only for this year. The logic that previously existed is gone now 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, nycdan said:

And as for rookies, the league was simply fed up with rookie holdouts.  Once a team drafted a rookie, they were in a tough situation and agents were trying to squeeze them.  It was bad for fans, teams, veterans, and the league.  Slotting shut most of that down while still getting rookies paid very well.  Just not 6 years / $72M for an unproven rookie who ultimately did not come anywhere near deserving that money.

I think it was more about what player and agents that were QBs where demanding and getting.  If you needed a QB and draft one first their agents were looking to cash in with $61M deals, $32M guaranteed like Jamarcus Russell got while position players got nowhere near that number.