AFJF Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 There are two ways that you can look at this. The first way is that its hypocritical for people to not jump on the red sox the way they have the yankees, because they're doing the same thing. The second way is to give the Red Sox a pass, because the Yankees set the bar, and they're just doing what they have to in order to keep up. You can either say "screw the Red Sox, they're no better than the Yankees" or you can say "I don't blame them, they're doing what they need to do" I commend them for the financial commitment. Personally, if it were the Yankees spending that kind of money, I would want it to be for two proven top of the rotation pitchers as opposed to one unproven pithcer. I have no problem with the spending, but this guy will have to be a regular Cy Young candidate to justify this contract IMO. A 20-12 record is a bust IMO if you're going to pay over 100 million for a pitcher. Time will tell if it was a wise move or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor99 Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Thor -- No offense you are and will forever be my boy. But that is the worst post ever. What franchise in any sport wouldn't want an all star at every position? I understand the point, and you're forever my girl. I just worded it poorly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharrow Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 I wonder what they will do with his contract. Either they can sign him for a short term deal, in case he does turn out to be a bust. But then again, the shorter the contract, the less they get for the $42 million they've already got invested. So to get the most out of that winning bid, they'd want as long a contract as possible. But then if he's a bust, they're really out some $$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbn007 Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Ok, lets examine why the yanks were villified.... 1) For years they could absorb HUGE contracts for pittance minor leaguers because they could afford to take them. A-Rod, Abreu and the Unit. 2) They would BLOW most teams out of the water with bids on players..Mussina an others The swelling of the Payroll to 200 mil made most of the MLB angry. True, the largesse of the amount stupified most owners as they were not willing to spend but fans took it personally. Now, with advent of new stadiums and new TV deals, a lot more teams are moving up the payroll mountain. In the meantime, the Yanks are coming back down as they unload some troublesome contracts. It appears that Tampa's involvement led to the engorgement of the Yankee budget. Now Cashman appears to have taken the reins and maybe he has injected sensibility to the equation. Hence, where the Yanks may have offered 50 million to obtain Matsuzaka....it appears they offered 31 million in a sensible manner. Does this explain it? Hopefully, you will see this as an explanation and not an attack. LL Truth is, the Bosox already had the trade for A-Rod all worked out before they got cold feet at the end. But they were also able to take on his money. There are other teams who also could. And as far as blowing teams out of the water with offers, what about teh offer to Pedro, and Beltran in 2005? Those were the highest and longest terms by a mile. And don't forget the Bosox and the 8 year deal at 20 million per, for Manny. Other teams also can/do spend. But only the Yankees get blown apart in the media. Well, now that theBosx have found some 38-51 million for a Japanese team, as well as some 52-756 million for the player, they have no right to cry about spending money anymore. None what-so-ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavrik Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 Truth is, the Bosox already had the trade for A-Rod all worked out before they got cold feet at the end. But they were also able to take on his money. There are other teams who also could. And as far as blowing teams out of the water with offers, what about teh offer to Pedro, and Beltran in 2005? Those were the highest and longest terms by a mile. And don't forget the Bosox and the 8 year deal at 20 million per, for Manny. Other teams also can/do spend. But only the Yankees get blown apart in the media. Well, now that theBosx have found some 38-51 million for a Japanese team, as well as some 52-756 million for the player, they have no right to cry about spending money anymore. None what-so-ever. Red Sox are just as guilty as the Yanks for overspending and throwing money around to get free agents. Using the excuse "well we don't have a 200 million dollar payroll like the Yanks" when your payroll well exceeds 100 million doesn't cut it. I have never said that the Yanks (or the Sox for that matter) are ruining baseball by spending this type of money, yet merely taking advantage of a financial system in baseball that allows them to do so. My Tigers are fast approaching becoming one of the "big spending teams" as Illitch is setting the payroll somewhere around 90 million for next season. Here's the interesting (and i think funny) bit of this whole thing. The final tally of the bid for the rights to negotiate with Matsuzaka was 51.1 million. The Sox get 30 days to sign him. If the Sox aren't able to sign him within the 30 day limit (which is unlikely, but crazier things have happened i.e. A-Rod trade) this would have to go down as perhaps the biggest waste of money in baseball in years. (Aside from giving Carl Pavano that ridiculous contract ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 Red Sox are just as guilty as the Yanks for overspending and throwing money around to get free agents. Using the excuse "well we don't have a 200 million dollar payroll like the Yanks" when your payroll well exceeds 100 million doesn't cut it. I have never said that the Yanks (or the Sox for that matter) are ruining baseball by spending this type of money, yet merely taking advantage of a financial system in baseball that allows them to do so. My Tigers are fast approaching becoming one of the "big spending teams" as Illitch is setting the payroll somewhere around 90 million for next season. Here's the interesting (and i think funny) bit of this whole thing. The final tally of the bid for the rights to negotiate with Matsuzaka was 51.1 million. The Sox get 30 days to sign him. If the Sox aren't able to sign him within the 30 day limit (which is unlikely, but crazier things have happened i.e. A-Rod trade) this would have to go down as perhaps the biggest waste of money in baseball in years. (Aside from giving Carl Pavano that ridiculous contract ) I don't know this guy from a hole in the wall, but I will tell you that if the Sox don't sign this bloke their $millions are fine. If he does sign all bets are off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 51 million dollar bid LOL! Its gonna take over 100 mill just to sign this guy. I wouldnt be surprised if the sox dont sign him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uart Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 If the sox don't sign him, Boras will explode. If they do, he better be ****ing Cy Young.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloogy Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 Enjoy him. If proven guys in the MLB aren't worth that kind of money, neither is he. I laugh at the Red Sux...playing into their losing tradition as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 Enjoy him. If proven guys in the MLB aren't worth that kind of money, neither is he. I laugh at the Red Sux...playing into their losing tradition as usual. Interesting twist-Yankee fans laughing at the Red Sox for over paying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 Interesting twist-Yankee fans laughing at the Red Sox for over paying. C' mon now SD. I'm the first one to say it when the Yankees overspend and I regularly get **** from other Yankee fans who say "who cares what they spend, I just want them to win". I personally like to see a team show the ability to evaluate and sign talent as a part of winning. What the Sox have done however, is take a step toward making an unproven pitcher the most expensive player in baseball. Even when the Yankees overpay (which they do too often) there is nothing they have done that even comes close to this move. $50 million for the right to talk to a player? I say the Sox have zero intention of signing this guy and are doing this just to keep him away from the Yanks. If they do sign him, as I've said before....it's without a doubt, the biggest gamble on a single player in sports history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 $50 million for the right to talk to a player? I say the Sox have zero intention of signing this guy and are doing this just to keep him away from the Yanks. If they do sign him, as I've said before....it's without a doubt, the biggest gamble on a single player in sports history. I agree. And that does not make it such a bad move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn306 Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 How is it that at the trading deadline last year the Sox were crying poverty saying they can't compete with the Yankees financially and then go out and bid 51 million dollars on a pitcher who could be Hideo Nomo or Hideki Irabu ? What a friggin joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbn007 Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 How is it that at the trading deadline last year the Sox were crying poverty saying they can't compete with the Yankees financially and then go out and bid 51 million dollars on a pitcher who could be Hideo Nomo or Hideki Irabu ? What a friggin joke. That's my question. Seems the money issue for the Bosox is just a convenient excuse to use whenever they feel like it. My guess is a 4 year deal in the 52-56 million range. I doubt Boras gets a deal like Oswalt (5/73). So, 51 + 52-56 equals a 4 year outlay of 103-107, or roughly 26 million per season, for D Mat. This could be a bigger joke than what Hicks gave A-Rod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 If the Sox bid that high just to keep him off the Yanks that's probably a good move. For this year. Next years bid or unrestricted after '08 something tells me he/Boras won't be so happy with the Red Sox if they don't make him a realistic offer now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 That's my question. Seems the money issue for the Bosox is just a convenient excuse to use whenever they feel like it. My guess is a 4 year deal in the 52-56 million range. I doubt Boras gets a deal like Oswalt (5/73). So, 51 + 52-56 equals a 4 year outlay of 103-107, or roughly 26 million per season, for D Mat. This could be a bigger joke than what Hicks gave A-Rod. I would guess nothing more than 4 years, 40 mill. The Red Sox have all the leverage. His old team does not want him back now. They are bidding against no one. What are their options? Boras will try to get a shorter deal, and get this guy to FA sooner, but he really has no leverage other than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbn007 Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 I would guess nothing more than 4 years, 40 mill. The Red Sox have all the leverage. His old team does not want him back now. They are bidding against no one. What are their options? Boras will try to get a shorter deal, and get this guy to FA sooner, but he really has no leverage other than that. Boras has 1 major piece of leverage, and no one in MLB wants him to use it: The Judicial system. The entire Posting process is a sham. It is so very a "Limit of Trade" on the player's rights to play. It is the exact opposite of what FA is all meant to be. I can see Boras heading to court in mid-December, and winning a stay against MLB, and opening up the Posting system to either allow the next team to negotiate (most likely), or make D Mat a true FA (unlikely). And he has the gall to do just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 Boras has 1 major piece of leverage, and no one in MLB wants him to use it: The Judicial system. The entire Posting process is a sham. It is so very a "Limit of Trade" on the player's rights to play. It is the exact opposite of what FA is all meant to be. I can see Boras heading to court in mid-December, and winning a stay against MLB, and opening up the Posting system to either allow the next team to negotiate (most likely), or make D Mat a true FA (unlikely). And he has the gall to do just that. Time would be against him, though. Face it, even with a hurried legal process, a decision could not be made by spring training, and at that point, it is a moot case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 Boras has 1 major piece of leverage, and no one in MLB wants him to use it: The Judicial system. The entire Posting process is a sham. It is so very a "Limit of Trade" on the player's rights to play. It is the exact opposite of what FA is all meant to be. I can see Boras heading to court in mid-December, and winning a stay against MLB, and opening up the Posting system to either allow the next team to negotiate (most likely), or make D Mat a true FA (unlikely). And he has the gall to do just that. First of all, the guy is Japanese, the Japanese can tell him to do whatever the hell they want. The Japanese are the ones demanding the fee. Secondly, "true FA?" What the hell is that? Pro sports leagues have continually restricted free agency. The salary cap? Salary tax? Rookie pay scale? MLB arbitration system? All these things limit true free agency and probably should all be considered unconstitutional if challenged. Our court system won't give a damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 I saw that Boras wanted a 3 year deal. This way the kid would be a free agent again when he was 29. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haggis Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 Gents, here is the situation as I see it: they pay to negotiate for 30 days. If they are unsuccessful then he returns to Japan and plays there for the remaining 2 years and the Sox get their money back. If they are successfull, then the $51 is kept by Broas and Matsuzaka. At least that is what I heard this morning on NESN. If they sign this guy, the $51M is more than covered by the new Japanese market. I hope they get him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 Gents, here is the situation as I see it: they pay to negotiate for 30 days. If they are unsuccessful then he returns to Japan and plays there for the remaining 2 years and the Sox get their money back. If they are successfull, then the $51 is kept by Broas and Matsuzaka. At least that is what I heard this morning on NESN. If they sign this guy, the $51M is more than covered by the new Japanese market. I hope they get him. You realize the 51 mil goes to his team in Japan right? They're paying them to negotiate. Then they sign him separately to a contract with separate money. In addition, he stays in Japan for 1 more year and then becomes a FA. 51 mil plus possible contract value is what puts the guy at around a hundred million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 My understanding is that the $51 Million is refunded if he doesn't sign. Next year he can be posted again and new bids are submitted. After '08 he's free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 WTF........seriously, you guys are confusing, really...... If the Yankees did this insane bid, they'd get murdered by the press for "ruining baseball even more by contaminating the overseas asian market". Thats exactly what would be said. But its the sawx, so nobody will say anything. Well fine, but sawx fans can no longer BITCH AND COMPLAIN about the Yankees spending sprees. There's the difference. Barton...the Yanks bid 30 million.....at what number is the bid not considered insane? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 Barton...the Yanks bid 30 million.....at what number is the bid not considered insane? When you bid 30 mill, and still get outbid by 22 milion. LOL. The sox blew everyone out of the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 The real winner here is the Seibu Lions- 51 million for one player on their team to let go- pretty good deal for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haggis Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 My understanding is that the $51 Million is refunded if he doesn't sign. Next year he can be posted again and new bids are submitted. After '08 he's free. Exactly. This is why the 51M was not a bad bid. If they don't sign him, no one does and they get their money back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbn007 Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 My understanding is that the $51 Million is refunded if he doesn't sign. Next year he can be posted again and new bids are submitted. After '08 he's free. That's how I understand it also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 The real winner here is the Seibu Lions- 51 million for one player on their team to let go- pretty good deal for them Only if he signs. If they were just preempting the Yanks, then Seibu is the big loser. I'm surprised it's refundable. I'd have thought Japan would have demanded to keep at least a portion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharrow Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 Maybe they have some backassward deal where the Sox sign him real cheap, and the Lions pay him a little under the table from that $51 million to make up the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 Maybe they have some backassward deal where the Sox sign him real cheap, and the Lions pay him a little under the table from that $51 million to make up the difference. I doubt it. No way Boras would allow it. First off, it makes it seem like the kid's value is lower than it actually is and lowers his cut. Second it also lowers pitching contracts for everybody and Boras represents some of those other guys. Doesn't he have Zito too? Third, Seibu has the kid locked up, they have no reason to let him go unless they are getting money. I don't see any reason for them to give $$ back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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