Leon Washington was a better running back than Reggie Bush last season. POINT BLANK.

[124]

Maybe this year. Last year they were geared for brees. not sure if you know who that is, but he's this quaterback in New Orleans, he's not too shabby.

Ha. Ha. Ha.

Yes, I know this, but every teams top players are geared up against. So in New Orleans it was Brees & Bush.

In New York? for the Jets?

Laveranues Coles & later in the year, Jerricho Cotchery.

[Gainzo]

'eh...That's not a very fair comparison. Tangini seem to be of the mind, 'the more the merrier' at a lot of positions. I really don't think them getting jones is taking away from what Leon can do.

I think the comparison is fair. If yo uwatched the saints' games you noticed how often they forced the ball to reggie. Leon never got that treatment in new york, nor does leon have a top 3 quarterback helping him open lanes on draw plays and what not.

What does a Top 3 QB have to do with anything? Is Leon a #1 RB in the NFL or not?

[Ghost]

Let's all pray for this man.

[drago]

What does a Top 3 QB have to do with anything? Is Leon a #1 RB in the NFL or not?

he could be a number one on a team. The whole size factor is sort of over blown, you know all the backs i could list that made it in the NFL. You could probably list 5 times as many small backs that didn't make it in the NFL. It gives me no reason to doubt LW as a number one RB on an NFL roster and produce very quality numbers.

[Papageorgio268]

I wish that this were true, but Reggie Bush is just on another level above Leon. Leon was great for us last year, a bright spot in our otherwise abysmal ground attack, but to compare him to Reggie Bush, a player who probably received a little bit more attention while on the field than Leon, is a very optimistic approach to looking at the Jets. It's like saying, we have a quarterback with the second highest completion percentage in NFL history, while ignoring the fact that he doesn't have the strongest arm or that he hasn't lead us to a superbowl (but that is another discussion.)

I feel like Leon is a great running back for our system, and he allowed us to have a little more faith in signing the aging Thomas Jones. We don't have to go into a panic if Jones gets hurt. But what you have to realize is that if Mangini truly felt like Leon was the running back of the future or had the skill you say he has, why would he bring in Thomas Jones. True, he got him for only trading draft spots in the second round, but with all the faith we have in Mangini, don't you think he could have pulled off some magic and gotten us someone a little bit more special than David Harris?

[Gainzo]

he could be a number one on a team. The whole size factor is sort of over blown, you know all the backs i could list that made it in the NFL. You could probably list 5 times as many small backs that didn't make it in the NFL. It gives me no reason to doubt LW as a number one RB on an NFL roster and produce very quality numbers.

Please name a team that would have Leon as their #1.

[Greenseed3]

DCW,

Don't take this the wrong way..... You're an idiot. Perhaps you started your drinking a little early on a Sunday; whatever.

Can anyone tell me how to start a "poll" thread? I'd like to prove it to you.

Also, is it against this board's standard to start a "DefensewinsChampions is an idiot, poll"?

Perhaps if you had actually responded to half of your naysayers, this post would be irrelevant. Being as you choose to continue your dim-witted debate against the weakest posted argument, leaves me to believe that this, like my other posts will go ignored.

Should a poll thread never be created.... Know this, you have one vote (right here) for being a shallow-minded, idiotic poster. Open your mind. Listen to others. Believe it or not, you might learn something.

[ShadowJet35]

DCW,

Don't take this the wrong way..... You're an idiot. Perhaps you started your drinking a little early on a Sunday; whatever.

Can anyone tell me how to start a "poll" thread? I'd like to prove it to you.

Also, is it against this board's standard to start a "DefensewinsChampions is an idiot, poll"?

Perhaps if you had actually responded to half of your naysayers, this post would be irrelevant. Being as you choose to continue your dim-witted debate against the weakest posted argument, leaves me to believe that this, like my other posts will go ignored.

Should a poll thread never be created.... Know this, you have one vote (right here) for being a shallow-minded, idiotic poster. Open your mind. Listen to others. Believe it or not, you might learn something.

YOU JUST GOT RAPED BY A NEWB!!

[ShadowJet35]

Please name a team that would have Leon as their #1.

The Chargers.

[Greenseed3]

Please name a team that would have Leon as their #1.

Great point, Gainzo. Leon is an incredible #2.

An INCREDIBLE #2. As a dummy might say, "point blank".

A "change-of-pace" back is almost neccesary in this league now-a-days. Just when your pounder tires a defense down, your quick-back comes in and exposes their exhaustion.

Leon is perfect for that.

But he's not heavy enough to carry a full load. We witnessed that. For that reason, he'll never, NEVER, be a featured back.

Dunn is a tremendous talent. But not a featured back. Leon has a similar skill set.

[ShadowJet35]

Wait wait, I had read it but didn't believe it, I thout I was drunk...

Did he really compare Dunn to Leon, and use Dunn in his prime, and say that Leon was better???

LOL, LMFAO!!

[Greenseed3]

Wait wait, I had read it but didn't believe it, I thout I was drunk...

Did he really compare Dunn to Leon, and use Dunn in his prime, and say that Leon was better???

LOL, LMFAO!!

Don't talk about me in the third person, like I'm not here. That's rude. I said the two have a similar skill set.

Why would I say a first-year rookie is better than an tenth-year veteran?

Both are considered short and quick. Dunn is 5'9 180. Leon is 5'8 200... But both are known for their quickness, cutting, and tackle-dodging. Neither back is easy to locate behind 6'9 O-lineman and that aids their elusiveness.

I dont know if you're drunk or not... But tommorow is long-Monday, so cheers.

[Ghost]

Let's put it this way, by the time they both retire, Bush, unlike Washington would be in the HOF.

[Greenseed3]

I'm getting pretty tired of the non-response.

Maybe, I'm out of my league.

(p.s. that was an insult, to the dummies)

[drago]

Please name a team that would have Leon as their #1.

the jets in a couple of years...

[drago]

Let's put it this way, by the time they both retire, Bush, unlike Washington would be in the HOF.

you just put reggie bush in the HOF.

[Garb]

Leon Washington...151 attempts for 650 yards with an Average of 4.3, long of 23

REGGIE BUSH.... 155 attempts for 565 yards with an average of only 3.6, long of 18

So Reggie had more Attempts, with less yards? Oh yea... Leon was also running behind 2 rookies and most of the time 8 in the box.

Reggie was also running behind a proven ALL-Pro running back in D.McCalister.

Leon was running behind K.Barlows and C.Houstons of the NFL.

My point exactly. And yea Reggie had more catches than Leon as a reciever... But Leon had a better YPC average.

This is funny stuff. You're worse than me when I wax poetic about Troy Brown.

[DMaynard]

I love Leon. Would I rather have Leon or Bush on my team? I'll take Bush in a microsecond.

[drago]

I love Leon. Would I rather have Leon or Bush on my team? I'll take Bush in a microsecond.

I'm not sure why people (that are not scouts) are so high on Bush, he hasn't done anything to prove he is the next gail sayers. He could be the next brian westbrook, in which case, he is a waste to be taken at number 2.

I'm also not sure why people are so hard on Leon, he had good numbers as a rookie, there is no reason he shouldn't improve this season.

A major reason Tangini went out to get TJ, IMO, was they don't like to lean on one player at the RB postion. Which is very similar to how they treat the linebacker position.

[PeterNorth09]

Leon Washington definitely had a better rookie season than Reggie Bush. He put up better numbers running behind a much worse offensive line. That's not to say Bush didn't have a good year himself. Bush will become a better all-around running back but he needs to put on weight and develop into a harder runner.

I don't get the argument though how running behind two worse RB's makes Washington better. If anything, the fact that Barlow, Houston and Blaylock were all scrubs helped Washington bc the coaching staff was forced to go with him more.

[DMaynard]

I'm not sure why people (that are not scouts) are so high on Bush, he hasn't done anything to prove he is the next gail sayers. He could be the next brian westbrook, in which case, he is a waste to be taken at number 2.

I'm also not sure why people are so hard on Leon, he had good numbers as a rookie, there is no reason he shouldn't improve this season.

A major reason Tangini went out to get TJ, IMO, was they don't like to lean on one player at the RB postion. Which is very similar to how they treat the linebacker position.

I have not read all of the other posts, but all I am saying is I love Leon. Glad we have him. But I'd rather have Bush. And I am so high on him because I think he has limitless potential, just as the scouts think as well.

[drago]

I have not read all of the other posts, but all I am saying is I love Leon. Glad we have him. But I'd rather have Bush. And I am so high on him because I think he has limitless potential, just as the scouts think as well.

To each their own. I could see leon being better than bush, and i don't see that as a very 'outlandish' comment. I'm generally not a big fan of selecting small backs, especially early, so the Bush pick never made sense to me. where as a late round flyer on Leon made more sense.

[DMaynard]

To each their own. I could see leon being better than bush, and i don't see that as a very 'outlandish' comment. I'm generally not a big fan of selecting small backs, especially early, so the Bush pick never made sense to me. where as a late round flyer on Leon made more sense.

If you are talking value - Leon in the 4th round vs Bush being the second pick overall, it is no contest. Leon is a tremendous value.

[ECURB]

I love the argument...

Leon was running behind K.Barlows and C.Houstons of the NFL.

Dont forget Blaylock...

That only HURTS your argument... it means that he could not even beat out a bunch of scrub RB's for the starting job...

Leon Washington had the chance of a lifetime to become a true starting RB last season when he was playing with a bunch of 2nd rate RB's... and he couldnt do it... now he will be stuck behind Thomas Jones... Which is a good thing becuase Leon is the PERFECT 2nd RB for a team...

Im pretty sure also... that if Reggie could get almost the same amount of carries behind an all-pro running back... that he would have been the feature RB for the JETS last season... that is proof enough that he is better...

DefenseWins... seriously just stop with all of this nonsense...

[fastmover]

i also think leon did more with less, and reggie really had the best chance to shine and did less, (running) but thats just stats, lets see what they do this season, but what leon did last season was impressive for the enviroment he was playing in.

Semper Fi

[ECURB]

i also think leon did more with less, and reggie really had the best chance to shine and did less, (running) but thats just stats, lets see what they do this season, but what leon did last season was impressive for the enviroment he was playing in.

Semper Fi

You dont think Reggie would have done better on the JETS than Leon did?

Leon should have easily beat out the other ****ty RB's on the roster if he was better than Reggie... but he couldnt...

Reggie did what he did... while stealing carries away from an all-pro RB... Leon did what he did while Mangini was forced to play him because Blaylock and Barlow sucked... didnt you notice that Mangini tried Blaylock first... and used Barlow whenever he showed a flash instead of Leon? Hell Mangini even tried Houston... Leon couldnt beat out any of them...

[SoFlaJets]

how dare you defensewinschampionships say something GOOD about a Jets player on a JETS MB...aren't you concerned with being called delusional and a homer? We have a LOT of crappy fans who refuse to support the team IMO anyway-check any given day at JI for a perfect example on a daily basis

good post DWC...stats don't lie

[ECURB]

how dare you defensewinschampionships say something GOOD about a Jets player on a JETS MB...aren't you concerned with being called delusional and a homer? We have a LOT of crappy fans who refuse to support the team IMO anyway-check any given day at JI for a perfect example on a daily basis

good post DWC...stats don't lie

lol

Bush had more TD's and ran behind an all-pro RB... Leon couldnt steal carries away from Kevan Barlow...

You KNOW I am not one of those fans who refuses to support the team... hell I even had a thread about how Leon should get more carries and be the starter every week last season...

[EM31]

Leon Washington clearly outperformed his 4th round draft spot, a fact that I think we can all agree upon. This circumstance is made all the sweeter when one considers this the pick was our "compensation" for the pain never again having to listen to a Herman Edwards press conference in green attire. Sperm Edwards was particulalry upset so I am told.

Did Reggie Bush outperform his draft position? Hard to say conclusively but he was edging towards being an underperformer.

Is Leon Better than Reggie? Absurd. If anyone thinks that then I would suggest they are probably genetically predisposed towards being a Dolphins fan. There is an IQ cap of about 82 and a screening process for the same over at Finheaven I think.

[serphnx]

This is why I hate ESPN so much. Exactly what did Bush do to get into the HoF? Bush was a great college RB. VY was a great college QB. Somehow, Bush's bad to mediocre season on one of the more talented offenses in the league makes him an HoFer, whereas VY being the almost only offensive talent on a team that almost made the playoffs means he sucks.

LW played on a team that is and probably always will be offensively challenged unless the QB grows a new arm. He wasn't even allowed to take the load and run with it, instead being given spot duty, even though every 20+ carry game resulted in him producing.

Is LW smaller than Tiki? I know I've seen some of these arguments before about Tiki, and LW at least doesn't fumble all the time, and isn't a big annoying phony.

[SoFlaJets]

lol

Bush had more TD's and ran behind an all-pro RB... Leon couldnt steal carries away from Kevan Barlow...

You KNOW I am not one of those fans who refuses to support the team... hell I even had a thread about how Leon should get more carries and be the starter every week last season...

yea i know ec-you're my kind of Jets fan...the thing about Leon though was he had to EARN his way onto the field-which he DID,and i think it was actually a block in one of those early games that did it.Derrick Blaylock and his 1.6 YPC was in front of him but by the time October came along and Jacksonville was killing us we found ourselves looking at a situation where a young guy was going to unseat a vet.

Reggie Bush had it all handed to him right away-not saying Leon Washington is going to have a HOF career but considering what a LOT of Jets fans were ready to do to get Bush-well let's just say I'm glad we got who we got and didn't mortgage the future on Bush

[ECURB]

yea i know ec-you're my kind of Jets fan...the thing about Leon though was he had to EARN his way onto the field-which he DID,and i think it was actually a block in one of those early games that did it.Derrick Blaylock and his 1.6 YPC was in front of him but by the time October came along and Jacksonville was killing us we found ourselves looking at a situation where a young guy was going to unseat a vet.

Reggie Bush had it all handed to him right away-not saying Leon Washington is going to have a HOF career but considering what a LOT of Jets fans were ready to do to get Bush-well let's just say I'm glad we got who we got and didn't mortgage the future on Bush

Im glad the JETS have Leon too, he is a great player and came at a great value... but to say he is better than Bush is just silly...

Your telling me if the Saints offered a straight up trade Bush for Leon you wouldnt do it? Based purely on ability... not draft position or cost...

The reason why Leon is great is because the JETS got him cheap... and he performed like a higher pick... doesnt make him great though...

[LWC611]

The reason why Leon is great is because the JETS got him cheap... and he performed like a higher pick... doesnt make him great though...

The LW pick has great value but is he great?....not now and only time will tell. Is he better than Bush, IMO no. He can be exciting but may get less touches now that we have TJ.

[DefenseWinsChampionships]

Leon should have easily beat out the other ****ty RB's on the roster if he was better than Reggie... but he couldnt...

Reggie did what he did... while stealing carries away from an all-pro RB... Leon did what he did while Mangini was forced to play him because Blaylock and Barlow sucked... didnt you notice that Mangini tried Blaylock first... and used Barlow whenever he showed a flash instead of Leon? Hell Mangini even tried Houston... Leon couldnt beat out any of them...

LOL, Guess what? Who was the starter at the end of the regular season? Who had only 1 carry going into week 3? Leon... So dont sit here and tell us all that Leon couldnt beat out any of them... Because last I seen, Leon was the starter by the end of the season in his rookie year.

Talk about being forced to play a player? Mangini was not FORCED to play Leon... NO Was FORCED to play Reggie because of the "Hype" And where he was selected in the draft.

I guess Pennington will never be shiit, because he sat out a little bit more than his ROOKIE season. And tell me the Great QB's infront of him that he could not BEAT OUT and get PLAYING TIME in his rookie season.

[ECURB]

LOL, Guess what? Who was the starter at the end of the regular season? Who had only 1 carry going into week 3? Leon... So dont sit here and tell us all that Leon couldnt beat out any of them... Because last I seen, Leon was the starter by the end of the season in his rookie year.

Talk about being forced to play a player? Mangini was not FORCED to play Leon... NO Was FORCED to play Reggie because of the "Hype" And where he was selected in the draft.

I guess Pennington will never be shiit, because he sat out a little bit more than his ROOKIE season. And tell me the Great QB's infront of him that he could not BEAT OUT and get PLAYING TIME in his rookie season.

Again... your way off...

Mangini was forced to play Leon because there was no other option... Leon would nto have sniffed the field if Barlow lived up to his potential. Reggie got on the field becuase he was explosive and played great, he had over 1000 all purpose yards... thats not getting on the field becuase of hype... thats called being GOOD.

And your wrong about him at the end of the season...

Lets take a look at the last 8 games...

@ NE / Did not start - 9 att - 35 yards - 3.9ypc

vs CHI / Started - 13 att - 22 yards - 1.7ypc

vs HOU / Did not start - 5 att - 17 yards - 3.4ypc

@ GB / Started - 7att - 40 yards - 5.7ypc

vs BILLS / Started - 7att - 55 yards - 7.9ypc

@ MINN / Started - 3att - 5 yards - 1.7ypc

@MIA / Started - 6att - 26 yards - 4.3ypc

vs OAK / Did not start - 15att - 53 yards - 3.5ypc

So Leon started 5 out of the last 8 games... and only had 10+ carries twice... only hit 15 carries once and never carried a full load...

Mangini continued to explore other options because Leon could not take the load of a feature back in his eyes... thats why TJ is wearing the #20 in Green this season.

Your so silly with your arguing that your actually making me (a HUGE homer) try to bring you back down to earth...